RedBeardedSavage Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Anyone have information about Ben Bartch and his scheme fit? https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ben-bartch?id=32194241-5272-0314-6867-3573699ef57d Clearly athletic from that bio, but definitely short arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 41 minutes ago, King P said: 40 time is irrelevant for a damn offensive lineman. Becton is definitely very athletic, especially for a man of his size. He's raw no doubt, but he's definitely a fit A raw RT at 11? I'll pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, RobR said: I love when people say Becton isn't a fit because of his poor passblocking. The guy gave up four sacks.....not last year.....but for his entire career. Over 2300 snaps and he gave up four sacks. I think you and I have kicked this debate around a little bit before. And, I always love it because Becton is probably the most intriguing OT to me in this Draft. He is massive, pretty smart, does show decent movement and ran faster than anyone should at his size. BUT, I've also read some things that question his ability to head out and intercept a defender. There does seem to be some question about whether he can execute zone-blocking assignments as well as other guys in this Draft and despite his movement abilities for such a big man, can he really get out there and hit a moving target in space? Again, he's a bit of an athletic freak at his size and has movement abilities he shouldn't have....but that doesn't mean he's the best fit over guys like Wills, Wirfs, or even Josh Jones or Austin Jackson. I like Becton a lot but I don't know if I like Becton at #11 more than I'd like someone like Jones in the 20's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 hours ago, choon328 said: Just basing this off is what Manish had in his article about how JD gives rating the players and how he values players who fit the offensive and defensive systems rather than just giving players an arbitrary rounds grades. I decided to take a look at the offensive lineman in the draft to see who the Jets would possibly see as scheme fits and who may not be a scheme fit. Based on reports and on the lineman they signed in FA I think the front office values these traits: -High IQ (Limited Penalties) -Versatility (Multi position flexibility) -Agility/Quickness (Wide offensive line splits) -Better pass protector than run blocker With those traits in mind here are my thoughts on a bunch of the Tackles in the draft that I believe are scheme fits: Jedrick Wills: Hits all of the boxes above. Great scheme fit Andrew Thomas: High IQ, not as agile as Wills but agile enough. Very good pass protector Tristan Wirfs: Hits all of the boxes as well. Needs some cleaning up in pass protection. Great scheme fit Josh Jones: Good enough IQ. Still needs work on technique but has the quickness to become an elite tackle. Great scheme fit Ezra Cleveland: Very quick very talented pass protector. Not as adept at run blocking. Great scheme fit Austin Jackson: Very quick feet, very good in pass protection. Still needs some work on technique. Good scheme fit. Trey Adams: Injury history aside he may be one of the cleaner tackles in the draft. His injury concerns will drop him a round or two but when healthy he's a 1st round talent. He's a scheme fit Matt Peart: Quick feet, good agility and a good edge blocker. Right tackle only. He's a scheme fit Prince Tega Wanogho: Strong skill set but very raw player. Similar skill set to Andrew Thomas but he'll need time to develop. Scheme fit Players who aren't scheme fits: Mekhi Becton: Average IQ in pass protection. Gets away with poor hand usage and limited quickness off the ball bc of his length against College players. Not too sure he'll get away with that against quick edge rushers in the NFL. In the type of scheme Gase wants to run leaving him on an island would be an issue in my opinion. Not a scheme fit. Lucas Niang: Questionable injury history. Did not display enough athleticism the past year after a hip injury and not testing at the combine concerns me. I'd leave him off my board till the 3rd round based on that. Isaiah Wilson: Another road grader type tackle who struggles with the technical aspects of pass protection and consistency. Not a fit Just looking at this list I think the Jets will be hoping one of Wills, Wirfs or Thomas will fall to them at 11. If none of those guys make it to 11 I can see them working hard to trade back in the 17-20 game for a guy like Josh Jones. If they can't make a trade I think they take a WR. I think they'll then look to move up in the 2nd round to get either Cleveland or Austin Jackson. If that doesn't happen I think one of Peart, Adams or Wanogho will be available in the 3rd. Most likely Adams bc of his injury concerns. I'd be ok with that bc without that he's a 1st round talent. What do you guys think? I'll take all of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: I think you and I have kicked this debate around a little bit before. And, I always love it because Becton is probably the most intriguing OT to me in this Draft. He is massive, pretty smart, does show decent movement and ran faster than anyone should at his size. BUT, I've also read some things that question his ability to head out and intercept a defender. There does seem to be some question about whether he can execute zone-blocking assignments as well as other guys in this Draft and despite his movement abilities for such a big man, can he really get out there and hit a moving target in space? Again, he's a bit of an athletic freak at his size and has movement abilities he shouldn't have....but that doesn't mean he's the best fit over guys like Wills, Wirfs, or even Josh Jones or Austin Jackson. I like Becton a lot but I don't know if I like Becton at #11 more than I'd like someone like Jones in the 20's. If you asked me what was one of the better aspects of his game it would be not only getting to the second level, but finding his target and blocking them. Watch some of his games and you will see him block CB's 15-20 yards down the field......not many OT's can do that. As you know because I've said it before but people are overthinking this whole he can only play in a zone/or he can only play in a man blocking system. Many of these top tackles are scheme diverse and could play and excel in either. No one should pigeonhole these top guys into an either/ or situation. Becton is long and athletic. Just because he can also maul players doesn't mean he would be a liability in a zone system. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, RobR said: If you asked me what was one of the better aspects of his game it would be not only getting to the second level, but finding his target and blocking them. Watch some of his games and you will see him block CB's 15-20 yards down the field......not many OT's can do that. As you know because I've said it before but people are overthinking this whole he can only play in a zone/or he can only play in a man blocking system. Many of these top tackles are scheme diverse and could play and excel in either. No one should pigeonhole these top guys into an either/ or situation. Becton is long and athletic. Just because he can also maul players doesn't mean he would be a liability in a zone system. I keep giving you opportunities to convince me and you're doing a good job. I'm not anti-Becton but I see a couple of better value fits at the #11 spot. I'd hope we get Wills or Wirfs, and not so much Thomas or Becton. It's just my preference. Later in Round 1 I'd like guys such as Jones or Jackson. The best thing would be that I continue to be skeptical about Becton and the Jets take him. That's a surefire way to ensure he turns out to be great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: I keep giving you opportunities to convince me and you're doing a good job. I'm not anti-Becton but I see a couple of better value fits at the the #11 spot. I'd hope we get Wills or Wirfs, and not so much Thomas or Becton. It's just my preference. Later in Round 1 I'd like guys such as Jones or Jackson. The best thing would be that I continue to skeptical about Becton and the Jets take him. That's a surefire way to ensure he turns out to be great. Ironically I like Becton and Thomas more than Wills and Wirfs. I like my OT's to have long arms and great height which would describe Becton and Thomas. Wills and Wirfs are not far behind and at the very least check that minimum length box. I'm not trying to knock one down and would be happy with any of them, but when it comes to Becton he has the upside to be the best OT in the league type of player. People that large shouldn't be able too move like that and he's still very young. Turns 21 this month. Edit: Also not much of a fan of Jackson, I'd be pretty pissed if he's the first OT we draft. Love a guy like Peart in the second if we do go WR in the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Here you go @jetstream23 How's this for a zone blocking play where he gets to the second level. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 5 hours ago, choon328 said: 4 false starts, 6 total penalties last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 3 hours ago, choon328 said: A raw RT at 11? I'll pass Three years ago they called Cam Robinson raw and a Guard. He’s similar to Becton and now a very good Left Tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, Philc1 said: Three years ago they called Cam Robinson raw and a Guard. He’s similar to Becton and now a very good Left Tackle I agree that he may be a very good player at some point. I just don't think the Jets can afford to draft solely on potential in the first round. They need a guy that they know can step right in and perform at a high level from day one. Becton has a bunch of question marks. First and foremost the fact that he weighed in at 365 at the combine after he said he played at 350 during the season. That's not a good look. And Cam Robinson was a 2nd round pick. Much different than taking him at 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, choon328 said: I agree that he may be a very good player at some point. I just don't think the Jets can afford to draft solely on potential in the first round. They need a guy that they know can step right in and perform at a high level from day one. Becton has a bunch of question marks. First and foremost the fact that he weighed in at 365 at the combine after he said he played at 350 during the season. That's not a good look. Then how would you describe him checking in with 17 % body fat at 364lbs? And then he drops a 5.1 forty which is unheard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 39 minutes ago, choon328 said: I agree that he may be a very good player at some point. I just don't think the Jets can afford to draft solely on potential in the first round. They need a guy that they know can step right in and perform at a high level from day one. Becton has a bunch of question marks. First and foremost the fact that he weighed in at 365 at the combine after he said he played at 350 during the season. That's not a good look. And Cam Robinson was a 2nd round pick. Much different than taking him at 11. You guys who are harping on Becton being “raw” that description is actually more applicable to Wirfs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Greenseed4 said: @choon328 Matt Peart can develop into a legit LT. His frame is ideal for the blindside. Isaiah Wilson is scheme diverse; he gets penciled into power schemes because he’s huge, but kid can move. By kid, I think he’s only 20 years old which is why he might be sneaking his way toward the first round. Niang is a great prospect also. So go ahead and add them to the list. I have heard a bunch of people saying not to sleep on Wilson. He ticks all the boxes athletically. Big boy from Brooklyn - Poly Prep, I think he is the same age as Wirfs though. 1 hour ago, Philc1 said: Three years ago they called Cam Robinson raw and a Guard. He’s similar to Becton and now a very good Left Tackle You love touting Cam Robinson. He had a nice rookie year, but he kind of sucked last year. Maybe it was coming back from the injury, but he was not good and they are talking about kicking him inside. 29 minutes ago, Philc1 said: You guys who are harping on Becton being “raw” that description is actually more applicable to Wirfs Good point. Wirfs is the workout wonder of the group. He and Becton are both pretty rare prospects. I am a little concerned about Becton in pass protection. Some of what I read wasn't kind and I am not particularly confident in Pollack as a teacher/developer of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 hours ago, RobR said: The thing I love about this becton film is his mean streak. He's not just taking people out of the play, he's burying them through the whistle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 After filtering out players who don’t fit our scheme, commit too many penalties, have questionable character and have low football IQ, I was left with nobody on the board. Looks like we are not drafting anyone this year. Wrap it folks. It’s over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 15 hours ago, Beerfish said: And how do we know that the WRs at 11 are 'scheme fits'? And when we pass on an OT at 11 how do we know that after a run on tackles between 11 and 48 that we are not standing there with our tails in the air or scrambling to trade up for an OT. You could say the exact same thing the other way around. Lamb-Darnold is a great fit. Any NFL QB will be a great fit with Ruggs or Jeudy. Best 3 WRs to come out of the draft in light years and you want to get a decent one at 48? LOL.. too rigid an approach. If JD sees a tackle in rd 2 that he really likes, it's worth the risk to get one of the above at 11. First time I have ever been diametrically opposed to your position, which is extraordinarily rigid. I wish everyone would just drop the "get one of the top 4 OTs" mantra. It's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 14 hours ago, jetstream23 said: I keep giving you opportunities to convince me and you're doing a good job. I'm not anti-Becton but I see a couple of better value fits at the #11 spot. I'd hope we get Wills or Wirfs, and not so much Thomas or Becton. It's just my preference. Later in Round 1 I'd like guys such as Jones or Jackson. The best thing would be that I continue to be skeptical about Becton and the Jets take him. That's a surefire way to ensure he turns out to be great. Was able to trade out twice in 1st round. 1st with ATL, then with DAL.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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