Draft Rumors

[JetFan20]

2 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

If it’s true, If I were the Browns I’d be pretty pissed that it’s been constantly leaked that they’ve liked Ezra.  

The Browns are back on the analytics route correct? 

If so they are almost certainly going to trade out. 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Maybe J Elway using the Ruggs rumor to trade up to get an offensive tackle. ( jump in front of the Jets) No will know till a week from today.

The Broncos already have two tackles they’re invested in with Bolles and JuWuan James

[derp]

14 minutes ago, JetFan20 said:

The Browns are back on the analytics route correct? 

If so they are almost certainly going to trade out. 

I posted this in the OL thread but their new GM is a former Eagles guy like Douglas. Former Harvard football player , bachelors in economics and masters in computer science from there. So he’s smart, analytics literate, and knows the sport.

Eagles took Andre Dillard in the first last year after trading down. Dillard was (I believe) the only tackle in that class to hit the short shuttle threshold that’s been very predictive for OL success - really regardless of round. Not a lot of guys have hit it at all. Cleveland was the only guy this year.

Browns also need a LT only since they signed Conklin (one of the reasons I was not sold on Conklin for the Jets - really handcuffs you in a good tackle draft and how often do expensive FA’s work out). Wirfs and Wills played the right side in college.

So it could certainly just be a well thought out rumor. But it does make sense. Don’t think Browns sit at 10 and take a tackle who’s not one of the consensus top four. But I could see Cleveland being top on their board, as weird as that sounds.

I’d buy into it more if rumors the Jets or Bucs wanted Cleveland started coming out. Try to give the Browns pause about moving down and not let other teams move up. But maybe that’s too absurd to be believable.

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Broncos already have two tackles they’re invested in with Bolles and JuWuan James

Bolles is a disaster. Everyone here despises that pick. 

The general consensus of the city is that it’s WR or OT...  but Elway is not a good drafter so who the F knows. 

[T0mShane]

19 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Bolles is a disaster. Everyone here despises that pick. 

The general consensus of the city is that it’s WR or OT...  but Elway is not a good drafter so who the F knows. 

I didn’t realize Bolles has been bad. That’s a drag

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t realize Bolles has been bad. That’s a drag

I never liked Bolles as a prospect so it's not surprising that Denver may not be enamored with him. He had red flags galore and IMO his tape was meh.

[derp]

3 minutes ago, RobR said:

I never liked Bolles as a prospect so it's not surprising that Denver may not be enamored with him. He had red flags galore and IMO his tape was meh.

Old too right? Somehow those 25 year olds who play well against 19 year olds don’t translate to the pros quite the same way.

[RobR]

1 minute ago, derp said:

Old too right? Somehow those 25 year olds who play well against 19 year olds don’t translate to the pros quite the same way.

Older prospect, MASSIVE head case, born again christian......what could possibly go wrong? I can never understand why a team would draft someone like that in the first round. Did I mention his tape was meh.

Fast forward to this year and these OT's are squeaky clean....it's why I've been so high on this class for a long time. Best class of OT's I have ever seen and I don't say that lightly.

[choon328]

1 hour ago, sirlancemehlot said:

So you've stated college production has nothing to do with it siting the success of a rare freak of nature in DK Metcalf. I say Metcalf is an outlier because he's huge, tall, fast and ripped...meaning he isn't in the same league as Ruggs.  So if body composition and college production mean nothing, what about the fact that Ruggs was the #2 receiver on his college team?  Let me guess, that has nothing to do with it?  Why bother watching tape at all then?  We'll just draft everyone based on their 40 times.  

I don't think you've actually watched tape on Ruggs and that's most likely the issue here.  Go look at Tyreek Hills stats at Oklahoma St and University of West Alabama. Then tell me again how college stats matter.

[Jetsfan80]

56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Broncos already have two tackles they’re invested in with Bolles and JuWuan James

Good lord.  They gave James $51M over 4 years.  $27M guaranteed.  Ridiculous.  

[Marshmello]

He's usually on point when it comes to the Broncos. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

50 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Bolles is a disaster. Everyone here despises that pick. 

The general consensus of the city is that it’s WR or OT...  but Elway is not a good drafter so who the F knows. 

 

30 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t realize Bolles has been bad. That’s a drag

 

Meh, Broncos fans are just spoiled.  Bolles has started 48 straight games since getting drafted and missed only 1 % of snaps.  He's allowed 15.5 sacks and committed 32 penalties in that span.  Not great but certainly not a "disaster" either.

For comparison purposes, in that same span, Kelvin Beachum has allowed 13 sacks and committed 17 penalties in 11 fewer games.

[RobR]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Meh, Broncos fans are just spoiled.  Bolles has started 48 straight games since getting drafted and missed only 1 % of snaps.  He's allowed 15.5 sacks and committed 32 penalties in that span.  Not great but certainly not a "disaster" either.

For comparison purposes, in that same span, Kelvin Beachum has allowed 13 sacks and committed 17 penalties in 8 fewer games.

That would be the definition of disaster because Bolles was a first round pick. Beachum  was originally a 7th and we signed him at the time to a reasonable contract.

[derp]

13 minutes ago, RobR said:

Older prospect, MASSIVE head case, born again christian......what could possibly go wrong? I can never understand why a team would draft someone like that in the first round. Did I mention his tape was meh.

Fast forward to this year and these OT's are squeaky clean....it's why I've been so high on this class for a long time. Best class of OT's I have ever seen and I don't say that lightly.

It’s funny, I think the front office rarely goes the way fans want and after the last few years minus Darnold I’m bracing myself to be disappointed.

But tackle just makes so much sense at eleven and it seems like everything is lining up for that to come together. The idea the Jets are going to draft interior linemen too gives me hope. Definitely could see them passing on that for a running back or a corner, edge, running back, quarterback, even safety and pissing people off.

At this point I’m just hoping the NFL not understanding that talent sometimes comes in unusually sized packages continues and Douglas gleefully snaps up Becton at 11. Have Mekhi be an example next to Watt and Donald.

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Meh, Broncos fans are just spoiled.  Bolles has started 48 straight games since getting drafted and missed only 1 % of snaps.  He's allowed 15.5 sacks and committed 32 penalties in that span.  Not great but certainly not a "disaster" either.

For comparison purposes, in that same span, Kelvin Beachum has allowed 13 sacks and committed 17 penalties in 11 fewer games.

 

39 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t realize Bolles has been bad. That’s a drag

Quote

The Scapegoat

Last and perhaps most interesting is Broncos Country’s least-favorite player — tackle Garett Bolles. Despite his propensity to draw penalties and struggle inconsistency, Bolles was actually quite good down the stretch this season, finishing the year as the team’s highest-graded tackle at 76.0. 

Bolles is 27 years old, and still has at least one year left on his contract. He still needs to go out next season and prove that his improvements post-bye week this year were not a mirage and that he can keep this level of play up, but perhaps under Munchak and with gained experience Bolles has finally ‘clicked’. 

Either way, much like Lock starting at quarterback, it would be a massive upset if Bolles isn’t the starting left tackle come Week 1 of the 2020 season.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/evaluating-whether-denver-broncos-o-line-is-worthy-of-pffs-12th-best-ranking

To 80's point ^.

Btw... I get nervous about Wirfs because of Bolles.  It's not an exact replica, Wirfs is a bit faster in the 40 and heavier, but both are probably better as guards. If it takes you three seasons to be a solid tackle, then I'm not selecting you in the first three rounds. 

 

 

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/evaluating-whether-denver-broncos-o-line-is-worthy-of-pffs-12th-best-ranking

To 80's point ^.

Btw... I get nervous about Wirfs because of Bolles.  It's not an exact replica, Wirfs is a bit faster in the 40 and heavier, but both are probably better as guards. If it takes you three seasons to be a solid tackle, then I'm not selecting you in the first three rounds. 

 

 

 

I never saw Bolles play in college, but I’ve seen Wirfs a bunch, and he’s been a wrecking ball every time I’ve watched him. I don’t know if Bolles was the same way, though

[RobR]

12 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/evaluating-whether-denver-broncos-o-line-is-worthy-of-pffs-12th-best-ranking

To 80's point ^.

Btw... I get nervous about Wirfs because of Bolles.  It's not an exact replica, Wirfs is a bit faster in the 40 and heavier, but both are probably better as guards. If it takes you three seasons to be a solid tackle, then I'm not selecting you in the first three rounds. 

 

 

 

Wirfs is a much better prospect than Bolles coming out.....it's not even close.

[sirlancemehlot]

1 hour ago, Greensleeves said:

Why should it matter if he was the #2 receiver on his team if the #1 guy was the consensus best receiver in the country? So Julio Jones would suck if he was on the same team as Deandre Hopkins? They are different types of receivers - it all depends on what you want. Ruggs would have had a ton more catches if Jeudy wasn't on his team.

If you're talking about drafting a kid at 11, he should at least be the best receiver on his college team.  Just my opinion.  And again we're talking about 6'1" and 212 pounds for Hopkins and Julio Jones at 6'3" 220.  Ruggs is 5'11" and 188.  Jeudy is 6'1" 195.  Which is why Jeudy was the #1 receiver (in addition to being far more polished as a route runner).  They both were on the field at the same time and Jeudy outproduced Ruggs by a landslide.  

Jeudy: 77 catches 1163 yards and 10 TD's

Ruggs: 40 catches 746 yards and 7 TD's

The problem is Ruggs is a fan favorite because of his 40 time, and so people project that 40 time into production.  He ran fast so he must be Tyreek Hill (5'10", 185).  If he turns into Hill, great.  But Hill (58 catches, 860 yards, 7TD's) isn't really a #1 WR either.  He's a burner and a gadget guy.  Which is why he was drafted in the fifth round.  The Chief's leading receiver is Travis Kelce (97 catches 1220 yards).  Nobody knows for certain who will boom or bust, of course.  If you love Ruggs, cool. I don't.  I think he's maybe the 8th or 9th best wr prospect in this draft.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I never saw Bolles play in college, but I’ve seen Wirfs a bunch, and he’s been a wrecking ball every time I’ve watched him. I don’t know if Bolles was the same way, though

I never watched Bolles in college, nor have I seen anything from Wirfs until this offseason. And prospect profiles are entirely subjective. 

I'm just not looking for 'project' players on this line. I want someone who can step in and be reliable right away. I'm much more in the Wills, Thomas and Jones camp than the Becton, Wirfs & Jackson camp. I get that those second group of dudes are beasts, but if I was the GM right now, I'd be grabbing one of the tackles from that former group, feeling comfortable with them at right tackle day one, and sending my 2 and 5 to Cleveland for OBJ. 

 

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

Wirfs is a much better prospect than Bolles coming out.....it's not even close.

I think Wirfs is an athletic freak that will be drafted higher than he should, just like Bolles, and underwhelm in the pros because of the expectations. 

 

[sirlancemehlot]

30 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I don't think you've actually watched tape on Ruggs and that's most likely the issue here.  Go look at Tyreek Hills stats at Oklahoma St and University of West Alabama. Then tell me again how college stats matter.

Tyreek Hill was drafted in the 5th round and Travis Kelce is the Chiefs #1 receiver by a mile.  Also, Tyreek Hill and Ruggs are two different people.  There is no reason to believe they are the same player. For every Tyreek Hill there is a ton of short, fast WR's that never cracked an NFL lineup.  We each have our opinions.  Arguing is fruitless, we'll see what happens when these draftees hit the field in NFL uniforms.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I never watched Bolles in college, nor have I seen anything from Wirfs until this offseason. And prospect profiles are entirely subjective. 

I'm just not looking for 'project' players on this line. I want someone who can step in and be reliable right away. I'm much more in the Wills, Thomas and Jones camp than the Becton, Wirfs & Jackson camp. I get that those second group of dudes are beasts, but if I was the GM right now, I'd be grabbing one of the tackles from that former group, feeling comfortable with them at right tackle day one, and sending my 2 and 5 to Cleveland for OBJ. 

 

 

Yeah, i think you can put Wirfs in with that first group, particularly at ORT. He was going to be a high-high pick even before he killed it at the Combine

[slats]

6 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

If you're talking about drafting a kid at 11, he should at least be the best receiver on his college team.  Just my opinion.  And again we're talking about 6'1" and 212 pounds for Hopkins and Julio Jones at 6'3" 220.  Ruggs is 5'11" and 188.  Jeudy is 6'1" 195.  Which is why Jeudy was the #1 receiver (in addition to being far more polished as a route runner).  They both were on the field at the same time and Jeudy outproduced Ruggs by a landslide.  

Jeudy: 77 catches 1163 yards and 10 TD's

Ruggs: 40 catches 746 yards and 7 TD's

The problem is Ruggs is a fan favorite because of his 40 time, and so people project that 40 time into production.  He ran fast so he must be Tyreek Hill (5'10", 185).  If he turns into Hill, great.  But Hill (58 catches, 860 yards, 7TD's) isn't really a #1 WR either.  He's a burner and a gadget guy.  Which is why he was drafted in the fifth round.  The Chief's leading receiver is Travis Kelce (97 catches 1220 yards).  Nobody knows for certain who will boom or bust, of course.  If you love Ruggs, cool. I don't.  I think he's maybe the 8th or 9th best wr prospect in this draft.  

I remember when I predicted that Laveranues Coles would be a better pro than Peter Warrick, and I was right. I'm not often so right, so it stuck with me.  

Jeudy is much more polished, but Ruggs is like a 98th percentile athlete with 10.25" hands. Not just the 40, but his jumps as well. I wouldn't bet against him, and would probably be pretty (nervously, perhaps) excited if he were the pick. 

[RobR]

4 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I think Wirfs is an athletic freak that will be drafted higher than he should, just like Bolles, and underwhelm in the pros because of the expectations. 

 

I've watched both of them in college and like I said earlier.....it's not even close. Bolles was an underweight, overaged prospect that I thought had some meh tape. Add in the he was borderline psychotic and you can see why I wasn't very high on him.

Wirfs is much heavier, much younger, and has some pretty nice tape to back it up. I never understood the fascination with Bolles but that draft was as sh*tty as they come when it came to drafting Olineman. Bolles was the first Tackle to come off the board at 20 overall.....that's not going to be the case this year.

[32EBoozer]

15 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

If you're talking about drafting a kid at 11, he should at least be the best receiver on his college team.  Just my opinion.  And again we're talking about 6'1" and 212 pounds for Hopkins and Julio Jones at 6'3" 220.  Ruggs is 5'11" and 188.  Jeudy is 6'1" 195.  Which is why Jeudy was the #1 receiver (in addition to being far more polished as a route runner).  They both were on the field at the same time and Jeudy outproduced Ruggs by a landslide.  

Jeudy: 77 catches 1163 yards and 10 TD's

Ruggs: 40 catches 746 yards and 7 TD's

The problem is Ruggs is a fan favorite because of his 40 time, and so people project that 40 time into production.  He ran fast so he must be Tyreek Hill (5'10", 185).  If he turns into Hill, great.  But Hill (58 catches, 860 yards, 7TD's) isn't really a #1 WR either.  He's a burner and a gadget guy.  Which is why he was drafted in the fifth round.  The Chief's leading receiver is Travis Kelce (97 catches 1220 yards).  Nobody knows for certain who will boom or bust, of course.  If you love Ruggs, cool. I don't.  I think he's maybe the 8th or 9th best wr prospect in this draft.  

Hill opens up the middle of the field for Kelce. 

[choon328]

1 hour ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Tyreek Hill was drafted in the 5th round and Travis Kelce is the Chiefs #1 receiver by a mile.  Also, Tyreek Hill and Ruggs are two different people.  There is no reason to believe they are the same player. For every Tyreek Hill there is a ton of short, fast WR's that never cracked an NFL lineup.  We each have our opinions.  Arguing is fruitless, we'll see what happens when these draftees hit the field in NFL uniforms.

On average last year Kelce averaged 1 more target per game than Hill.  And if Tyreek were in this draft with what we know now about him he'd be a top 5 pick.  Tyreek and Ruggs have the exact same skill set except Ruggs coming out is a more polished WR and stronger. To pigeon hole him as a straight line burner is incorrect.  Ruggs ran one of the most diverse route trees in College football last year. He constantly had the #1 CB on him every game with safety help.  Jeudy was one on one in the slot against a lesser CB. That's why the stats are skewed in favor of Jeudy. Watch the tape, it's clear to see. 

[choon328]

1 hour ago, sirlancemehlot said:

If you're talking about drafting a kid at 11, he should at least be the best receiver on his college team.  Just my opinion.  And again we're talking about 6'1" and 212 pounds for Hopkins and Julio Jones at 6'3" 220.  Ruggs is 5'11" and 188.  Jeudy is 6'1" 195.  Which is why Jeudy was the #1 receiver (in addition to being far more polished as a route runner).  They both were on the field at the same time and Jeudy outproduced Ruggs by a landslide.  

Jeudy: 77 catches 1163 yards and 10 TD's

Ruggs: 40 catches 746 yards and 7 TD's

The problem is Ruggs is a fan favorite because of his 40 time, and so people project that 40 time into production.  He ran fast so he must be Tyreek Hill (5'10", 185).  If he turns into Hill, great.  But Hill (58 catches, 860 yards, 7TD's) isn't really a #1 WR either.  He's a burner and a gadget guy.  Which is why he was drafted in the fifth round.  The Chief's leading receiver is Travis Kelce (97 catches 1220 yards).  Nobody knows for certain who will boom or bust, of course.  If you love Ruggs, cool. I don't.  I think he's maybe the 8th or 9th best wr prospect in this draft.  

Hill missed 4 games last year.  The year before he had 87 catches 1487 yds and 12 tds. More yards and Tds than Kelce

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

I've watched both of them in college and like I said earlier.....it's not even close. Bolles was an underweight, overaged prospect that I thought had some meh tape. Add in the he was borderline psychotic and you can see why I wasn't very high on him.

Wirfs is much heavier, much younger, and has some pretty nice tape to back it up. I never understood the fascination with Bolles but that draft was as sh*tty as they come when it came to drafting Olineman. Bolles was the first Tackle to come off the board at 20 overall.....that's not going to be the case this year.

I’ve read your posts for years now, you always have valuable insights and I won’t pretend to have your expertise. 

I’m saying Wirfs, like Bolles, is a better athlete than football player. I think they’re both more prone to big mistakes on stunts, blitzes and missed opportunities. I think there are safer tackles with less upside that can still be top 1/3 of the league at their position.

We’ll have to revisit this in a few years time, but I’m decidedly not sold on Wirfs, Becton and Austin Jackson. I am sold on Wills, Thomas and Jones. 

[RobR]

7 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’ve read your posts for years now, you always have valuable insights and I won’t pretend to have your expertise. 

I’m saying Wirfs, like Bolles, is a better athlete than football player. I think they’re both more prone to big mistakes on stunts, blitzes and missed opportunities. I think there are safer tackles with less upside that can still be top 1/3 of the league at their position.

We’ll have to revisit this in a few years time, but I’m decidedly not sold on Wirfs, Becton and Austin Jackson. I am sold on Wills, Thomas and Jones. 

Thanks, I appreciate it. The one common ground that we all should agree on is that this draft can't come soon enough. With the lack of live sports, or any sports for that matter I think we're all getting a bit crazy.

[King P]

1 hour ago, sirlancemehlot said:

The problem is Ruggs is a fan favorite because of his 40 time, and so people project that 40 time into production.  He ran fast so he must be Tyreek Hill (5'10", 185).  If he turns into Hill, great.  But Hill (58 catches, 860 yards, 7TD's) isn't really a #1 WR either.  He's a burner and a gadget guy.  Which is why he was drafted in the fifth round. 

To be fair, Tyreek Hill went on Day 3 because of the domestic violence incident. Mind you, he was projected to go undrafted and KC still dropped a 5th on him. Without those character issues, he most likely goes a couple rounds earlier. (2nd or 3rd)

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I remember when I predicted that Laveranues Coles would be a better pro than Peter Warrick, and I was right. I'm not often so right, so it stuck with me.  

Jeudy is much more polished, but Ruggs is like a 98th percentile athlete with 10.25" hands. Not just the 40, but his jumps as well. I wouldn't bet against him, and would probably be pretty (nervously, perhaps) excited if he were the pick. 

Plus it’s a copy cat league and right now the chiefs model is best.  Douglas said he wants speed and more speed.  Obviously ruggs is the easiest way to achieve this.  It’s just hard to see him taking ruggs over a guy like Andrew Thomas though.  

[HawkeyeJet]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I never watched Bolles in college, nor have I seen anything from Wirfs until this offseason. And prospect profiles are entirely subjective. 

I'm just not looking for 'project' players on this line. I want someone who can step in and be reliable right away. I'm much more in the Wills, Thomas and Jones camp than the Becton, Wirfs & Jackson camp. I get that those second group of dudes are beasts, but if I was the GM right now, I'd be grabbing one of the tackles from that former group, feeling comfortable with them at right tackle day one, and sending my 2 and 5 to Cleveland for OBJ. 

 

 

Why would you consider Wirfs a project but not Jones?  Wirfs was a better college player, in a system that is light years closer to an NFL system, and is better in basically ever physical measurement?  Especially if you are talking about playing RT 

[RedBeardedSavage]

15 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Why would you consider Wirfs a project but not Jones?  Wirfs was a better college player, in a system that is light years closer to an NFL system, and is better in basically ever physical measurement?  Especially if you are talking about playing RT 

From what I’ve read and watched since the quarantine, Wirfs first two steps when pass blocking are incredibly inconsistent. That worries me. I think he’s been getting by more on athleticism than anything else - common for a collegiate athlete with rare ability. Granted, he’s shown he has it - he can do it correctly - but it’s not consistent. 

I think Wills, Thomas and Jones are cleaner and more reliable on their first two steps and are less likely to get beat back inside and mirror better. 

Every position benefits from consistent technique, but I think for tackles and corners it’s even more important. You get beat once and that’s very easily a touchdown or an injured quarterback.

I’d just rather draft a prospect more consistently sound than someone with superstar potential at those positions. 

[JetBlue]

On 4/13/2020 at 1:39 PM, derp said:

I tend to agree with Bit. This draft lines up neatly with what fans want and no team drafts the way fans want. Every year we do the “offensive tackle at eleven, wide receiver at 48, edge rusher at 68, center at 79” nonsense and it never happens.

Ruggs in the first over one or two of the tackles and one or two of Lamb and Jeudy is kind of perfect. Eschews what 95% of fans want while fitting a need and lining up with what it seems Douglas wants to build offensively but everyone is ignoring - which is an offense with enough speed all over the field to spread the field and create big plays. “Speed creates pressure, pressure bursts pipes.” But we’ve got Antonio Gandy-Golden, a fine prospect in his own right but a guy who ran 4.6, in like half this site’s mocks.

Douglas seems like a guy who has a vision for the kind of team he wants to put together. I think he wants the offense to be more athletic. You saw it with FA offensive line. Perriman fits that. There are maybe a few pass catchers who could be there at 48 and fit that? Ruggs for sure fits.

Fans are going to be frustrated after this draft because there’s a really clear, clean plan and I doubt it gets executed that way. I think Laviska Shenault is a fit and nobody wants him. Ditto Austin Jackson. Everybody talks about Jones and Cleveland. Jackson’s very similar. Jets fans don’t like him. Doubt Douglas agrees. Just like I doubt he drafts Wills for reasons Bit outlined nicely. 

Bump the don’t draft lists up against the traits the coach and GM seem to be looking for, see who’s in both groups, bet those are the guys.

I would love it if we came away with Ruggs and Shenault and several talented OT/G prospects that might need a little seasoning for one reason or the other.   

[K_O_Brien]