Draft Rumors

[British Jet]

I bet it was Gettleman who used the word "wronger".

[Lith]

2 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

Not sure how it will all shake out next week, but should make for a very interesting and entertaining Thursday and Friday nights next week.  Finally will be something sports-related on TV worth watching.

[bitonti]

16 hours ago, RobR said:

 

Fast forward to this year and these OT's are squeaky clean....it's why I've been so high on this class for a long time. Best class of OT's I have ever seen and I don't say that lightly.

Contra case these guys aren't all that great.  

Bob McGinn's report on the OL came out today it was informative 

Quote

“They’ve been thrust up there as the unquestioned top four because they’re juniors,” said a personnel man. “The media just kind of does that with juniors. They just assume these guys are great prospects because they’re coming out early, and they’re not.”

My poll of 17 personnel people over the last two weeks showed four juniors packed together at the top with almost no separation. Scouts were asked to rank their top six offensive linemen, with a first-place vote worth 6 points, a second worth 5 and so on. Thomas led with 78 points and seven firsts but tight on his heels were Becton (75, five), Wills (71, two) and Wirfs (71, three).

“There’s no consensus with these guys,” an NFC personnel director said. “We have different orders between scouts, coaches. It’s kind of your flavor. You probably will get six tackles (in the first round) but there’s only four you feel good about. Then it falls off.”

 

Quote

TACKLES

1. ANDREW THOMAS, Georgia (6-5, 315, 5.17, 1): Thomas started at RT as a true freshman and at LT the past two seasons. “I thought he was the most natural and productive of all these guys,” one scout said. “He rarely gets beat. Has long arms (36 1/8 inches), and he plays with ‘em. Redirects well.” Thomas is a three-sport athlete from Lithonia, Ga. “Never have an issue with him,” another scout said. “This kid will pick up the system immediately. Cannot say enough good stuff about him. He’s a legit starter right away.” Scored 28 on the 12-minute, 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. “Would like to see a more aggressive finish,” a third scout said. “Doesn’t move defenders with power. Considering his athleticism, he’s on the ground a little more than I expected. Will need to get stronger in his drive blocks. I have questions about his skill set.” Some scouts say his feet are more than adequate for a LT. Others disagree. “Struggles against speed,” a fourth scout said. “Some of the pass-pro deficiencies make you want to think he’s more of a right tackle. What keeps you in the boat with Andrew is that everyone at Georgia really says high things about his football makeup and character. It’s an intangible-based position. At minimum, you’ll have a really good, solid starter because he’ll do all the right things.”

2. MEKHI BECTON, Louisville (6-7 ½, 357, 5.11, 1): Started at RT as a true freshman and at LT the past two seasons. “He has the highest ceiling,” said one scout. “You shouldn’t have the initial lateral quickness at that size that this guy has. There’s some rawness there (but) he could be a perennial Pro Bowl type.” That personnel man tabbed Becton as the No. 1 lineman in the draft. So did this scout, who said, “You know what? You can’t get around him. He’s athletic enough to block DBs in space. He can bend his lower body. He has strong hands. One concern I had was he was knock-kneed. You can’t say he’s Trent Williams. He’s like Orlando Brown (6-8, 340, 5.68) of the Ravens.” Another scout compared him to former Viking LT Bryant McKinnie (6-8, 343, 5.38), the seventh pick in 2002. “But he’s tougher than McKinnie,” the scout said. “He doesn’t play hard all the time…but he takes care of business. He’s been as high as 388, as low as 350. Will fatigue a little bit. Trustworthy. A teddy bear. He’s a pretty squared-away guy.” He matured significantly as a player and learned to play through injury in 2019. “He’s not one of those overweight, lazy guys,” a third scout said. “He can move and he competes. He’s what everybody’s looking for.” He posted a Wonderlic score of 15, and his arms were 35 5/8, hands were 10 ¾. “Know why I have him fifth (on his vote)?” said a fourth scout. “Because he loves to cook and eat more than he loves frigging football…He can be a freak now. You could hit on him. You know what he is? He’s Trent Brown (6-8 ½, 353, 5.26).” Becton is from Highland Springs, Va.

3. JEDRICK WILLS, Alabama (6-4, 312, 5.06, 1): Wills, from Lexington, Ky., improved as much if not more than any player in the draft last season, according to one scout. “He’s got feet, he’s got flexibility and he competes really hard,” said another scout. “Really good with his drive block. Square pass protection. Runs and pulls with ease. Really light on his feet. Pretty good in space. His height is OK.” The third-year junior played RT only, protecting Tua Tagovailoa’s blind side. “I think he does have left-tackle feet but I don’t think he’s a left tackle,” said a third scout. “You may try to kick him to left but people don’t know how hard that is, especially when you haven’t done it.” Two-year starter. “I like Wills as a right tackle or guard because he’s tough and plays hard, but he’s not a left tackle,” another scout said. “He needed extra time there.” Scored 9 on his first attempt at the Wonderlic, which teams traditionally have regarded as the most telling score, but he scored 23 on his second try. “We interviewed him twice,” said one scout. “He wouldn’t scare you off. I would say it (the Wonderlic) is not (a big concern).” He produced the best vertical jump (34 ½) of the tackles. “I don’t get the whole excitement with him, and I’ve watched a ton of tape,” another scout said. “I don’t think he plays very athletically. He’s not a finisher. He doesn’t redirect very well. Not a strong, tough guy. He worked out well. I just don’t see the movement, finish, talent of a first-round guy.”

4. AUSTIN JACKSON, USC (6-5, 322, 5.08, 1-2): Jackson is a third-year junior with two seasons as the starter at LT. “As far as the way he looks – the frame, the long arms, the bubble, the bend – you’re, like, ‘OK, this guy’s going to be really good,’” said one scout. “But he’s a hands-outside guy, which is kind of hard to fix. With his hands going outside and bending at the waist, he had a terrible outing against (A.J.) Epenesa in the bowl game. He’s the boom-or-bust of this group. He’s either going to hit big and be a starter for a long time, or he’ll bust out and people will say, ‘He wasn’t any different than I thought.’ Very, very inconsistent.’” In July, he became a bone marrow donor for his sister Autumn. “He basically saved her life,” another scout said. “They corkscrewed into his hip, twice on the left and once on the right, to get the marrow out. When he recovered his hip flexibility was not what it used to be. He lost like 25 pounds. If you look at the early tape you go, ‘What the hell? This guy is thinking about coming out?’ He was getting beat on the edges because he couldn’t move laterally. It wasn’t until the seventh or eighth game where he was starting to feel normal. His best football is ahead of him. Awesome kid.” He posted a 25 on the Wonderlic and his broad jump of 9-7 led tackles. “He makes run and pass look easy,” another scout said. “Guy doesn’t work up a sweat. Has the feet to play left tackle. Needs a little work.” Added another executive: “One thing to think about, he missed all last offseason and now he’s going to miss this whole offseason. So the idea he’s got to get stronger … well, when? Next year?” Jackson is from Phoenix. His grandfather, Mel, started at RG for Green Bay in 1977-’78.

Wirfs is listed as the top guard

Quote

1. TRISTAN WIRFS, Iowa (6-5, 320, 4.87, 1): Wirfs is a third-year junior from Mount Vernon, Iowa (pop. 4,000). “All-state wrestler,” said one scout. “May be a better guard. Strong, physical run blocker. Has enough size and strength not to get bull-rushed. Strong hips. You may start him at right tackle, but eventually you’ll move him inside to guard.” Made 29 starts at RT, four at LT. “After he tested at the combine people started saying, ‘He can play left tackle,’” said another scout. “There’s no verifiable evidence of that. He was not good at left tackle for Iowa.” He blew out the combine with guard-bests in the 40, vertical jump (36 ½) and broad jump (10-1). “You can play him anywhere you want,” a third scout said. “He’s really good. He had great numbers at the combine but other than blocking the inside power move all he needs is technique. He’ll be a star.” He posted a Wonderlic of 23. “He’s a better athlete than football player at this point,” said a fourth scout. “He isn’t your typical polished Iowa NFL-ready guy from a technique and awareness standpoint. He’s not ready to play. Where you draft him you’re going to have to plug him in and start him, and he’s going to lose you some games next year. But he’s obviously a phenomenal test athlete so some team will get enamored with that. The tape is really up and down.”

 

[johnnysd]

Here is what I expect: This will be the most unpredictable first and second round ever in the draft, due to the circunstances and the quality of the players.

[choon328]

 

An anonymous NFL executive expressed "serious concern about the durability" of Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa to The Athletic's Bob McGinn.

McGinn has conducted these polls with executives and scouts for 36 years.  Quotes were made anonymous starting in 2015.  That executive wasn't the only one of the 18 polled to slam Tagovailoa.  "I don’t want to put my whole franchise on a left-handed, beat-up, 6-foot quarterback.  No thank you," said an AFC personnel man.  “He’s a great college player but, wow, he is fragile,” another AFC personnel man said.  “He’s a super kid and I don’t wish ill will, but there’s three, four or five red flags staring us all in the face saying, ‘You know what? This guy’s not going to be all that he’s cracked up to be.’”  Some teams have expressed concern about Tagovailoa's hip injury being a problem again in a few years, causing concern when he's due a second NFL contract.  On top of the hip, Tagovailoa has also had surgeries on both ankles for high-ankle sprains, a sprained knee, and hand surgery.  He's already been pretty banged up in his career.  At least three teams have removed Tua from their draft boards completely.  His draft night could be interesting.

[choon328]

Just now, choon328 said:

 

An anonymous NFL executive expressed "serious concern about the durability" of Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa to The Athletic's Bob McGinn.

McGinn has conducted these polls with executives and scouts for 36 years.  Quotes were made anonymous starting in 2015.  That executive wasn't the only one of the 18 polled to slam Tagovailoa.  "I don’t want to put my whole franchise on a left-handed, beat-up, 6-foot quarterback.  No thank you," said an AFC personnel man.  “He’s a great college player but, wow, he is fragile,” another AFC personnel man said.  “He’s a super kid and I don’t wish ill will, but there’s three, four or five red flags staring us all in the face saying, ‘You know what? This guy’s not going to be all that he’s cracked up to be.’”  Some teams have expressed concern about Tagovailoa's hip injury being a problem again in a few years, causing concern when he's due a second NFL contract.  On top of the hip, Tagovailoa has also had surgeries on both ankles for high-ankle sprains, a sprained knee, and hand surgery.  He's already been pretty banged up in his career.  At least three teams have removed Tua from their draft boards completely.  His draft night could be interesting.

He is sliding out of the top 10. If he slides and the Giants take a tackle like Jeremiah thinks all 4 of the big tackles will be gone by 11

[KRL]

7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

He is sliding out of the top 10. If he slides and the Giants take a tackle like Jeremiah thinks all 4 of the big tackles will be gone by 11

Tua sitting at 11 will give Douglas a prime opportunity to trade down.  Teams

with older QB's will definitely look to trade up

[choon328]

1 minute ago, KRL said:

Tua sitting at 11 will give Douglas a prime opportunity to trade down.  Teams

with older QB's will definitely look to trade up

Agreed, that will be best case scenario for the Jets. Tabs competing to get the top WR or Tua/Herbert who I think will both fall out of the top 10

[Zachtomims47]

 

5 minutes ago, KRL said:

Tua sitting at 11 will give Douglas a prime opportunity to trade down.  Teams

with older QB's will definitely look to trade up

Eh I feel like it’s just gonna be a Aaron Rodgers type fall, and one of the teams sitting at the end of round 1 will take a chance on him. 

[SR24]

 

[Beerfish]

In that article they compare bechton to Orlando Brown.  Some of us were screaming for mac to draft brown when he began falling in the 2018 draft, instead we took nathan sheppard.

[KRL]

If Tua is sitting there at 11 I would think the following 
teams would give Douglas a call:

OAK
TB
JAX
NE
NO
GB

[JoJoTownsell1]

14 minutes ago, KRL said:

Tua sitting at 11 will give Douglas a prime opportunity to trade down.  Teams

with older QB's will definitely look to trade up

The same could be said for the teams drafting right ahead of us.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Here is what I expect: This will be the most unpredictable first and second round ever in the draft, due to the circunstances and the quality of the players.

They say this every year and then these chickensh*t GMs all draft the guys basically where they’re ranked in the lead-up. It’s the draft media who’s scuffling because there’s no incidental meeting up at the bars with personnel people this year and nobody is picking up the phone for Todd McShay or Matt Miller. 

[T0mShane]

That said, McGinn’s stuff is always great. I’m pretty sure they’re all grumpy old Packers scouts, but you love to see the unvarnished appraisals.

[jetstream23]

Dolphins have been seriously eyeing Tua but an inability to medically evaluate makes him a gamble at #5.

#Tank4Tua may have worked....but will the Fish now pull the trigger?

 

[jetstream23]

19 minutes ago, SR24 said:

 

 

GET ME THAT VIDEO!!!!  Watching that interview would be better than P0rnhub!

 

[Jetlife33]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Dolphins have been seriously eyeing Tua but an inability to medically evaluate makes him a gamble at #5.

#Tank4Tua may have worked....but will the Fish now pull the trigger?

 

It’s okay Trent Dilfer swears he’s healthy /sarcasm 

[Marshmello]

 

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Contra case these guys aren't all that great.  

Bob McGinn's report on the OL came out today it was informative 

Wirfs is listed as the top guard

 

Interesting.  According to this Thomas is the only bonafide LT prospect who consistently performed and played the LT position, possibly Becton.  Everyone else is some sort of projection to LT (Wills, Wirfs), has some concerns (Jackson's strength/injuries, Becton's food addiction. lol).

The #11 pick can't be a projection.  So unless Joe D is okay with taking a guy who may only be a RT it seems like Thomas would be the only viable guy at #11.  Perhaps Becton but I'd write some type of weight clause into his contract if possible (not sure it can be done with these slotted rookie contracts).  WR looks like a safer pick at #11.

It could be the case that the risks associated with some of these "Top 4" OTs gives some of these Tier 2/3 guys like Josh Jones, Niang or Wanogho a better risk-reward profile comparatively speaking.  If you want to take the risk at #11 that Wills can move from RT to LT why not just take the risk at #48 that a true LT (but lesser prospect) like Wanogho can improve with NFL-level coaching since he's relatively new to football?

The more I think about it the more I smell a trade-back from Joe D to accumulate more picks.

Question - Would you rather have Wills at #11 or double-dip with a pair of guys like Wanogho and Peart in Rounds 2 or 3, hoping that you hit on at least one of them?

Don't underestimate the possibility that Joe D believes enough in his scouting and that of his assembled team to uncover OT value in Rounds 2 or 3.  I'd guess he's confident in his ability to find a couple of "diamonds in the rough" in the early/middle rounds that he believes could be coached up over the next 12 months while having Fant penciled in at starter.  Could be a Jason Fabini (Jets 4th round pick, played LT for about 8 years) approach.

[section314]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

 

An anonymous NFL executive expressed "serious concern about the durability" of Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa to The Athletic's Bob McGinn.

McGinn has conducted these polls with executives and scouts for 36 years.  Quotes were made anonymous starting in 2015.  That executive wasn't the only one of the 18 polled to slam Tagovailoa.  "I don’t want to put my whole franchise on a left-handed, beat-up, 6-foot quarterback.  No thank you," said an AFC personnel man.  “He’s a great college player but, wow, he is fragile,” another AFC personnel man said.  “He’s a super kid and I don’t wish ill will, but there’s three, four or five red flags staring us all in the face saying, ‘You know what? This guy’s not going to be all that he’s cracked up to be.’”  Some teams have expressed concern about Tagovailoa's hip injury being a problem again in a few years, causing concern when he's due a second NFL contract.  On top of the hip, Tagovailoa has also had surgeries on both ankles for high-ankle sprains, a sprained knee, and hand surgery.  He's already been pretty banged up in his career.  At least three teams have removed Tua from their draft boards completely.  His draft night could be interesting.

Could be this years version of Geno.

[SR24]

10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting.  According to this Thomas is the only bonafide LT prospect who consistently performed and played the LT position, possibly Becton.  Everyone else is some sort of projection to LT (Wills, Wirfs), has some concerns (Jackson's strength/injuries, Becton's food addiction. lol).

The #11 pick can't be a projection.  So unless Joe D is okay with taking a guy who may only be a RT it seems like Thomas would be the only viable guy at #11.  Perhaps Becton but I'd write some type of weight clause into his contract if possible (not sure it can be done with these slotted rookie contracts).  WR looks like a safer pick at #11.

It could be the case that the risks associated with some of these "Top 4" OTs gives some of these Tier 2/3 guys like Josh Jones, Niang or Wanogho a better risk-reward profile comparatively speaking.  If you want to take the risk at #11 that Wills can move from RT to LT why not just take the risk at #48 that a true LT (but lesser prospect) like Wanogho can improve with NFL-level coaching since he's new to the position?

The more I think about it the more I smell a trade-back from Joe D to accumulate more picks.

Question - Would you rather have Wills at #11 or double-dip with a pair of guys like Wanogho and Peart in Rounds 2 or 3, hoping that you hit on at least one of them?

Don't underestimate the possibility that Joe D believes enough in his scouting and that of his assembled team to uncover OT value in Rounds 2 or 3.  I'd guess he's confident in his ability to find a couple of "diamonds in the rough" in the early/middle rounds that he believes could be coached up over the next 12 months while having Fant penciled in at starter.  Could be a Jason Fabini (Jets 4th round pick, played LT for about 8 years) approach.

Don't get cute stay at 11 and take Wills. There's definitely a drop off from the T4 OTs to the rest for once just stay put and take a really good player that fills your biggest need

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Don't get cute stay at 11 and take Wills. There's definitely a drop off from the T4 OTs to the rest for once just stay put and take a really good player that fills your biggest need

Wills at #11 based on this scouting report...

Quote

“I don’t get the whole excitement with him, and I’ve watched a ton of tape,” another scout said. “I don’t think he plays very athletically. He’s not a finisher. He doesn’t redirect very well. Not a strong, tough guy. He worked out well. I just don’t see the movement, finish, talent of a first-round guy.”

 

[long time suffering Jets f]

Why do I have this damn feeling the Patriots will end up with Tua and he will become Tom Brady 2.0?

[SR24]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Wills at #11 based on this scouting report...

 

1 scouting report by an anonymous scout? cmon dude he's been widely regarded as a T3 OT you're gonna pass on him in hopes of hitting on 2 tackles in the 2nd and 3rd round? Hell no our biggest needs right now are OT and WR one of which is will be there at 11 with a premium talent we have no business trading back in round 1.  

[Patriot Killa]

24 minutes ago, Marshmello said:

 

My guess is that we really like Andrew Thomas and I wouldnt be able to hold back the excitement if we got him. that said idk if he’ll be there. I don’t think he will. 

he’s honestly probably going to be the first OT off the board.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

My guess is that we really like Andrew Thomas and I wouldnt be able to hold back the excitement if we got him. that said idk if he’ll be there. I don’t think he will. 

he’s honestly probably going to be the first OT off the board.

i think the trade back scenarios start if these guys are gone.  there's no reason to take a wr at 11 if they can get extra picks and take one at 15 or 16.

[HawkeyeJet]

In a tidbit above, a scout says Wirfs was "not good" at LT for Iowa.

I can say with 100% certainty the Iowa coaches disagree with that. His two highest graded games this season were at LT.

I'm not pounding the table from Wirfs.  I actually might have him 3rd on my OT wish list for the Jets, but I've seen a lot of opinions in recent days that either question his readiness or if he can play Tackle, and I think those are off based.  I think people see Big hulking Iowa OL and assume move in to guard a la Scherff and Yanda.  I just think it's a bit lazy.  He certainly has his areas for improvement, but I don't think they are anymore than any of the other main 4 OT.

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 

GET ME THAT VIDEO!!!!  Watching that interview would be better than P0rnhub!

 

Hell yes.   Good to see JD at least sniffing around him.  That could be the trade up from 48 play I’m predicting.  

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, SR24 said:

1 scouting report by an anonymous scout? cmon dude he's been widely regarded as a T3 OT you're gonna pass on him in hopes of hitting on 2 tackles in the 2nd and 3rd round? Hell no our biggest needs right now are OT and WR one of which is will be there at 11 with a premium talent we have no business trading back in round 1.  

Didn't say I'd pass on him, but he's considered a top 3 OT at Right Tackle.  Moving him to LT is a projection that while certainly possible, does have some risk.  It would be like using a high pick on a college slot WR and planning to transition him to the X WR spot.  Doable...but do you take that chance with the most premium pick you have?

[jetstream23]

32 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Hell yes.   Good to see JD at least sniffing around him.  That could be the trade up from 48 play I’m predicting.  

I don't want to give up the farm but if the Jets go OT first and are looking at WR in Round 2 I'd want to be sure to get a premium guy like Higgins, Pittman or Aiyuk.  I think Mims and Jefferson are a pipe dream but landing any of the other 3 I mentioned would make me happy.

[JBL7]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

 

An anonymous NFL executive expressed "serious concern about the durability" of Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa to The Athletic's Bob McGinn.

McGinn has conducted these polls with executives and scouts for 36 years.  Quotes were made anonymous starting in 2015.  That executive wasn't the only one of the 18 polled to slam Tagovailoa.  "I don’t want to put my whole franchise on a left-handed, beat-up, 6-foot quarterback.  No thank you," said an AFC personnel man.  “He’s a great college player but, wow, he is fragile,” another AFC personnel man said.  “He’s a super kid and I don’t wish ill will, but there’s three, four or five red flags staring us all in the face saying, ‘You know what? This guy’s not going to be all that he’s cracked up to be.’”  Some teams have expressed concern about Tagovailoa's hip injury being a problem again in a few years, causing concern when he's due a second NFL contract.  On top of the hip, Tagovailoa has also had surgeries on both ankles for high-ankle sprains, a sprained knee, and hand surgery.  He's already been pretty banged up in his career.  At least three teams have removed Tua from their draft boards completely.  His draft night could be interesting.

The old anonymous source trick... I don't buy it and pretty typical to be hearing a lot of this BS this week leading up to the draft. If there is an actual source on this story it's probably a NFL Executive hoping Tua drops far enough for them to get him.

[JBL7]

1 hour ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Why do I have this damn feeling the Patriots will end up with Tua and he will become Tom Brady 2.0?

 It would not surprise me. If he does slide a bit I'd be almost willing to bet this happens.

[choon328]

7 minutes ago, JBL7 said:

On top of the hip, Tagovailoa has also had surgeries on both ankles for high-ankle sprains, a sprained knee, and hand surgery.  He's already been pretty banged up in his career.

This is why he'll drop

 

7 minutes ago, JBL7 said:

The old anonymous source trick... I don't buy it and pretty typical to be hearing a lot of this BS this week leading up to the draft. If there is an actual source on this story it's probably a NFL Executive hoping Tua drops far enough for them to get him.

 

[SR24]

23 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Didn't say I'd pass on him, but he's considered a top 3 OT at Right Tackle.  Moving him to LT is a projection that while certainly possible, does have some risk.  It would be like using a high pick on a college slot WR and planning to transition him to the X WR spot.  Doable...but do you take that chance with the most premium pick you have?

Yes 100% take that chance especially when you also have a glaring need at RT. If we have a chance to draft any of the 4 OTs we have to do it