One Big Fat Jamal Adams Thread, It's All The Same Discussion, Anyway (MERGED ELEVENTY-BILLION)

[Jetsfan80]

22 minutes ago, jgb said:

You need good players in several positions to make a dynasty. There are 100 roads to a championship and 95 start with a good QB. Since we (hopefully) have that, need good players in many places.

Yes, we need several good players in several positions.  Trading Jamal helps us toward that end.  Let's draft 2 OT's, 2 WR's, 1-2 CB's and 1-2 EDGE rushers in the first 4 rounds.  

Investing heavily in Jamal has a direct impact on how many players at positions of importance we can bring in.  

[ECURB]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, E. Gilmore is the best CB in the league. Great CBs are worth CB1 money. SSs are not worth CB1 money. You pay a lot for caviar because it’s in rare supply. You don’t pay caviar prices for bologna because bologna is garbage meat. Jamal Adams is not caviar. Jamal Adams is worth bologna money.

So Belichick has had the highest paid safety before too and now a CB... he pays guys that deserve it.

the problem with you and others is you claim Jamal doesn’t deserve it but then think the JETS can unload him for starting QB level draft picks. You just keep shifting your argument to fit

which is it?

[Defense Wins Championships]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, we need several good players in several positions.  Trading Jamal helps us toward that end.  Let's draft 2 OT's, 2 WR's, 1-2 CB's and 1-2 EDGE rushers in the first 4 rounds.  

Investing heavily in Jamal has a direct impact on how many players at positions of importance we can bring in.  

Nope. And what if trading away Jamal turns into more busts (like always).

You do not trade away the heart and soul of your defense and future HOF (Already 1st-team All-Pro) for "more draft picks". 

And who's going to replace Jamal Adams on Defense who plays every position outside of D-Line? This guy...

Nope. Not happening. 

I rather keep and BUILD AROUND ...

THAT GUY!

Go take your little potential BUST draft picks and shove then up your ass;

while I enjoy my Pro Bowl Stud, current All-Pro and First-team Defensive Animal and Future HOF Jets Great. 

Deal? Ok. Good. 

[ECURB]

FWIW I have seen Tom and others over the last year doing the same waffling and just decided to chime in with a few facts and some different logic.

You guys tossed out how great the Patriots are (yes I know you love them) and failed to point out they PAID a Safety when the Dynasty was just starting. Highest paid safety in the league.

So if you really think the JETS should just follow BB then they should make Jamal the highest paid safety in the league according to your own logic.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, ECURB said:

So Belichick has had the highest paid safety before too and now a CB... he pays guys that deserve it.

the problem with you and others is you claim Jamal doesn’t deserve it but then think the JETS can unload him for starting QB level draft picks. You just keep shifting your argument to fit

which is it?

A starting QB goes for two firsts, minimum. If Jamal Adams wasn’t a Jet and the team that drafted him called you and offered Adams to you for the #11 pick, would you make that deal?

[ECURB]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

A starting QB goes for two firsts, minimum. If Jamal Adams wasn’t a Jet and the team that drafted him called you and offered Adams to you for the #11 pick, would you make that deal?

If that was a position of need of course you take the sure thing. You are dreaming of a player that is an unknown.

If I had to guess Joe Douglas got some good offers for him already and people smarter than you or I decided he was worth it. If he winds up being traded it will most likely be because Gregg Williams and JD know they can make the D work without him and not lose the locker room.

[Defense Wins Championships]

15 minutes ago, ECURB said:

So Belichick has had the highest paid safety before too and now a CB... he pays guys that deserve it.

the problem with you and others is you claim Jamal doesn’t deserve it but then think the JETS can unload him for starting QB level draft picks. You just keep shifting your argument to fit

which is it?

Some Jet fans are clueless and post with cluelessness thoughts. 

I wonder why (just to name a few) SB Winners in Dallas, Tampa Bay, New England, Indy, Pittsburgh, Seattle and KC didn't trade away the likes of great SS's in Darren Woodson, John Lynch, Bob Sanders, Rodney Harrison, Kam Chancellor, Troy Polamalu and Tyrann Mathieu for "more draft picks/potential busts"?

Lol these guys are absolutely clueless and don't know football that's why. 

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Some Jet fans are clueless

No sh*t.

[ECURB]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, we need several good players in several positions.  Trading Jamal helps us toward that end.  Let's draft 2 OT's, 2 WR's, 1-2 CB's and 1-2 EDGE rushers in the first 4 rounds.  

Investing heavily in Jamal has a direct impact on how many players at positions of importance we can bring in.  

If you are lucky you get one pro bowler out of that mix. If half wind up starting in 3 years you have 3 or 4 starters.

Keep Jamal and have a good/lucky draft and you have a contender in the making.

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, we need several good players in several positions.  Trading Jamal helps us toward that end.  Let's draft 2 OT's, 2 WR's, 1-2 CB's and 1-2 EDGE rushers in the first 4 rounds.  

Investing heavily in Jamal has a direct impact on how many players at positions of importance we can bring in.  

Trading him for a player I could get on board with. I’m not the trade the cow for magic beans type. Even the best GMs have below a 50% “hit rate” in the draft.

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I wont argue that.

But I think fair logic would say that if you can turn 1 blue chip player into 2-3 blue chip players, it is worth the risk.

“If” being the key word. I don’t trust the draft. I don’t trust JD — don’t distrust him either, he is basically an unknown.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, ECURB said:

If that was a position of need of course you take the sure thing. You are dreaming of a player that is an unknown.

If I had to guess Joe Douglas got some good offers for him already and people smarter than you or I decided he was worth it. If he winds up being traded it will most likely be because Gregg Williams and JD know they can make the D work without him and not lose the locker room.

Yeah, I don’t see how we disagree. I don’t want to trade Adams because I think he stinks or is a bust. I want to trade Adams because I think he has more value to other teams than he does to ours. The drafting has been terrible here for over a decade and it needs a jump start to get us closer to competing. If you can turn one known into a one, a three, and a huge chunk of available cap space, that’ll be a nice little package of assets to help move the team forward. Adams, good as you think he is, only helps so much, and in areas that are somewhat redundant

[LRJets]

 Giving him a big time deal that kicks in NOW when he's under contract for a lower amount is throwing money away and no team does that unless it's a franchise QB.

I pray not a Mo 2.0

[Defense Wins Championships]

And FYI Jamal Adams is worth (at least) two 1st rounders and another 4th rounder. 

So unless it's a K. Mack type of trade package?

You Jet fans don't even have the right to talk about your little 1st/3rd round cluelessness trade packages. 

 Multiple reports immediately broke out (out of Dallas) after Jerry Jones was rejected by JD for his 1st/3rd offerings  that Joe Douglas (himself) will not even listen to or entertain any trade offers unless it's a package featuring AT LEAST two 1st rounders + another 4th 

So with all due respect you all can take your little 1st & 2nd.

1st & 3rd

and/or

two 1st's

and shove them up your (you know what). 

TWO 1st's + ONE 4th (or you're not allowed to even SPEAK ON IT).

Without being looked @ as a clueless fan who knows nothing about #33's trade value (through JD's eyes). 

[T0mShane]

“We can’t trade Jamal because Joe Douglas will **** up the draft picks” isn’t an argument to keep Jamal, it’s an argument to fire Joe Douglas.

[Untouchable]

26 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Some Jet fans are clueless and post with cluelessness thoughts. 

I wonder why (just to name a few) SB Winners in Dallas, Tampa Bay, New England, Indy, Pittsburgh, Seattle and KC didn't trade away the likes of great SS's in Darren Woodson, John Lynch, Bob Sanders, Rodney Harrison, Kam Chancellor, Troy Polamalu and Tyrann Mathieu for "more draft picks/potential busts"?

Lol these guys are absolutely clueless and don't know football that's why. 

If Adams turned in the kinds of performances he did against the Redskins and Giants 5-6 times a year as opposed to 5-6 times in 3 combined years, then many more of us would be inclined to keep him and label him as the stud, impact defender that you and your ilk claim him to be.

Guys like Lott, Polamalu, Reed, Woodson, Cherry...they routinely did the kind of sh*t that makes you cream your pants over Jamal Adams, oh say, twice a year.

Despite that, his trade value will never be higher. He’s a great self promoter, is still under 25, and has the pro-bowl and all-pro accolades as you love to repeatedly point out.

The Jets currently have a talented young QB headed into his 3rd year who as it stands right now is surrounded by doo-doo on offense. They’re also 5 days away from a 1st round that features multiple players at pivotal positions like OT and WR who project as quality, Day 1 starters.

So yes, myself as well as many others would prefer to flip the safety in order to walk away with one of those quality OT’s and WR’s, still have multiple picks to work with on Days 2 and 3, and finally give Darnold a fighting chance to become the player that we drafted him to be.

[Mogglez]

Takes some balls to call other people clueless when you've been banned from two different forums (that I know of) for being the aggressive village idiot that can't help but wrote 10 paragraph essays on what he had for breakfast this morning.

[Jethead]

5 hours ago, JTJet said:

False. 

This is the exact business model Belichick has deployed for 2 decades, and they won 6 Super Bowls. The Patriots trade talent at their peak and flip them for younger talent at positions of need basically every year. 

Richard Seymour, Deion Branch, Jamie Collins, Chandler Jones, Jimmy Garropolo, Matt Cassel, Logan Mankins. 

All the above traded players turned into...

Joe Thuney, Trey Flowers, Nate Solder, Patrick Chung, (just to name a few) and cap flexibility each of the following years to sign significant key vets. 

AND, that's not including the free agents they then let walk yearly. Vinatieri, Welker, Van Noy, Flowers, Solder, Browner, Revis, Ryan, Vereen, Ridley. Then they reap about 47 comp picks. 

The exact model you are saying is "bad business", is exactly what has won a team we hate 6 Super Bowls over 20 years. (Minus the cheating of course) 

The business model works perfectly, and you are upset that we want to try it out one time? Remind me again how the business model WE have executed as a team the last 20 years has worked? 

Minor detail....Tom Brady. And he's Belichik not Gase/Douglas. But don't let small points get in the way.

[RedBeardedSavage]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I don’t see how we disagree. I don’t want to trade Adams because I think he stinks or is a bust. I want to trade Adams because I think he has more value to other teams than he does to ours. The drafting has been terrible here for over a decade and it needs a jump start to get us closer to competing. If you can turn one known into a one, a three, and a huge chunk of available cap space, that’ll be a nice little package of assets to help move the team forward. Adams, good as you think he is, only helps so much, and in areas that are somewhat redundant

^ Yea, this is where it is for me. 

It's not about Jamal or his play, it's about his value, his potential cost and the current condition of the rest of the roster. 

All that matters right now for this franchise is ensuring that Darnold turns out to be the guy we want him to be. Unloading a strong safety while his value his high, before he signs his big contract and scares teams off, can help us build around our 22 year old quarterback that desperately needs protection and weapons.

It's not really about Jamal, it's about allocating resources to what's important. Both receiver and offensive tackle are more important than safety, however you slice it. And we need two of each of those offensive positions.

If someone is offering you a 1 and a 3 in a draft top heavy in OT and deep in WR, you take it. If nobody makes that offer, then we keep Jamal. I don't have to love or hate the player to make that call. 

[ECURB]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

“We can’t trade Jamal because Joe Douglas will **** up the draft picks” isn’t an argument to keep Jamal, it’s an argument to fire Joe Douglas.

Bill Belichick hits on less than 50% of his draft picks. So it’s actually just logical.

[pdxgreen]

50 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I wont argue that.

But I think fair logic would say that if you can turn 1 blue chip player into 2-3 blue chip players, it is worth the risk.

And we've shown the ability to do that... when?

[mudcat22]

I wanted to keep Adams but now I'm changing my mind.  He claims to be a leader and best player on the team.  He is quite immature and his actions are not of a leader but a diva.  If we can get two firsts for him do it.  He will be nothing but trouble the next two years if he isn't made the highest paid Safety. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

17 minutes ago, ECURB said:

Bill Belichick hits on less than 50% of his draft picks. So it’s actually just logical.

 

13 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

And we've shown the ability to do that... when?

I’m not turning down a great deal for draft picks because previous GM’s were sh*t at drafting.

If Mac was still at the helm, I’d understand your point. But we have a clean slate here.

The real question is - what is your price? Every player outside of Darnold should have a price. What offer makes sense for Jamal to you? 

[Jethead]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

I’m not turning down a great deal for draft picks because previous GM’s were sh*t at drafting.

If Mac was still at the helm, I’d understand your point. But we have a clean slate here.

The real question is - what is your price? Every player outside of Darnold, should have a price. What offer makes sense for Jamal to you? 

Fair enough, every principle has a price.

I want 2 #1's or a legit starting OT (Tyron) and a #1.

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, jgb said:

Trading him for a player I could get on board with. I’m not the trade the cow for magic beans type. Even the best GMs have below a 50% “hit rate” in the draft.

You have to build through the draft.  I'll take the unknown over the known.  I'll also trust that Douglas knows what he's doing with his picks, because what option do we have otherwise? 

We've sucked before Jamal and we've sucked with Jamal.  We've also taken defensive players with 10 of the last 11 first rounders we've had, so I want the flexibility to take as many offensive players as possible in the draft.

 In short, it's time for something different.  

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, ECURB said:

Bill Belichick hits on less than 50% of his draft picks. So it’s actually just logical.

Bill Belichick cheats.  He's not a good comparison.

Ozzie Newsome is the best example to use, especially since Douglas comes from that scouting department.  

[Jetsfan80]

39 minutes ago, ECURB said:

If you are lucky you get one pro bowler out of that mix. If half wind up starting in 3 years you have 3 or 4 starters.

Keep Jamal and have a good/lucky draft and you have a contender in the making.

I'd rather give Douglas as many high picks as possible.  Sure, he can miss on a few.  But even if he hits on 50 % or less, if the picks are premium positions (likely given what he's said and done over the course of his career), we'll re-shape the future of the franchise in just one draft.

Oh, and f**k the defense for a while.  That too.  Let Gregg Williams figure it out with what he has.  The exception being if there's a CB and/or EDGE rusher Douglas likes in that 2nd-4th round range and we have enough picks to justify it.  

[pdxgreen]

7 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

I’m not turning down a great deal for draft picks because previous GM’s were sh*t at drafting.

If Mac was still at the helm, I’d understand your point. But we have a clean slate here.

The real question is - what is your price? Every player outside of Darnold, should have a price. What offer makes sense for Jamal to you? 

I don't agree with that.  And I will never agree with that.  You can shout it every day until the day Adams gets traded and I still won't agree with that.  That for me only becomes reality when it becomes obvious that he wants to leave and is at impasse with the front office.  Then he really does become a hazard to team spirit and the locker room and we should get rid of him.  But I value team leadership and core players as much as the ability to put together whatever beneficial trade looks good at any given point.  When we do have a core of winning players that other teams value then we can decide whose crucial and who's not.  But right now I want to keep the few who could actually be a part of that.

[JetsFanatic]

50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

A starting QB goes for two firsts, minimum. If Jamal Adams wasn’t a Jet and the team that drafted him called you and offered Adams to you for the #11 pick, would you make that deal?

That would an awful trade from the Jets point of view, Really come on now.

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Fair enough, every principle has a price.

I want 2 #1's or a legit starting OT (Tyron) and a #1.

Alright, I hear ya. You want a Jalen Ramsey deal. I'm willing to take a 1 and a 3. 

From what's been reported, Joe D asked for your price. Maybe it gets done for a 1 and a 2 this year - who knows? Less than a week...

[JetsFanatic]

Random Jamal Adams note, per

@ESPNStatsInfo

: Since entering the league in 2017, he ranks in top 5 in snaps, tackles, sacks and forced fumbles among DBs. He’s first in sacks (12), T-2nd forced fumbles (6). #Jets

[JetsFanatic]

2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Random Jamal Adams note, per

@ESPNStatsInfo

: Since entering the league in 2017, he ranks in top 5 in snaps, tackles, sacks and forced fumbles among DBs. He’s first in sacks (12), T-2nd forced fumbles (6). #Jets

Lets give this guy away for just a mid-first rounder.  You people are clueless. 

[JTJet]

41 minutes ago, jgb said:

“If” being the key word. I don’t trust the draft. I don’t trust JD — don’t distrust him either, he is basically an unknown.

But that equally means he could be an all star GM. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

I don't agree with that.  And I will never agree with that.  You can shout it every day until the day Adams gets traded and I still won't agree with that.  

Well now that's just silly.  Every player has a price.  And I'll give you a parable of sorts to prove that.

 

A man approaches you and asks if you'd lick the bottom of his shoe for $1.

"No, that's disgusting, I would NEVER do that."

"OK then, how about for $1 million?"

"Well, sure, I'll do it for $1 million."

"OK, how about $2?"

"No, that's disgusting, I would NEVER do that."

"Sir, I believe  we have already just established that you WOULD do that.  Now we're just negotiating on the price."

[RedBeardedSavage]

8 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

I don't agree with that.  And I will never agree with that.  You can shout it every day until the day Adams gets traded and I still won't agree with that.  That for me only becomes reality when it becomes obvious that he wants to leave and is at impasse with the front office.  Then he really does become a hazard to team spirit and the locker room and we should get rid of him.  But I value team leadership and core players as much as the ability to put together whatever beneficial trade looks good at any given point.  When we do have a core of winning players that other teams value then we can decide whose crucial and who's not.  But right now I want to keep the few who could actually be a part of that.

I understand your view. I think Jamal is good for culture - just as Greg Williams is good for culture. And I think culture in sports, or in any group/team endeavor, is important. 

Most assets in life have to have a price. Not your woman, your family or franchise quarterback, but just about anything else should have a price.

I'm a big Liverpool FC fan, and I hated when they sold Coutinho... and then they flipped that money into the best goalkeeper and central defender in the world and completely overhauled their team by turning a weakness into a strength.

Yes, you have to have confidence in your ability to scout talent, and yes, if it's Mac drafting, I'm not moving Jamal. But it's not. And while I enjoy watching Jamal play, and it's nothing personal about his play or attitude, he simply is not as important has having a potent offense around your franchise quarterback. 

That's why I have a price - a steep one, out of respect for the player and his abilities - but a price nonetheless. 1 + 3 this year.