One Big Fat Jamal Adams Thread, It's All The Same Discussion, Anyway (MERGED ELEVENTY-BILLION)

[Alka]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

There’s more to it than that...

1) They  now have to pay him a lot as opposed to a rookie contract.

2) He has three years left at his prime - as opposed to 6.

Jets would be crazy to turn down 1 and 3 this year.  But he’s not getting traded so I wouldn’t worry about it.

I don't agree with you.  Jamal was just learning the game in year #!, and he wasn't the player he is today.  The Cowboys will be getting a player still very young and still with more than 3 years left in his prime.  In 2 years, then he will have 3 years left in his prime.

In terms of having to pay him, that is what happens when you draft really, really good players.  It's a good problem to have.

You say the Jets would be crazy to turn down 1 and 3 this year.  I say the Jets would be crazy to take that offer.  

He isn't just a great player; he upgrades the entire defense IMO.

[TheClashFan]

FWIW, I read an article by a Cowboys writer that they offered the Jets their #1 and a CB on their roster (can't remember the name). The article said that JD asked for the moon, multiple 1-3 round picks and a starting OT.

The article also claimed that the Cowboys would be willing to up their offer, but to what?

 

[NYDreamer]

The Ravens did not trade Ed Reed or Ray Lewis.....You do not trade a guy like Jamal Adams who wins games for your team single handedly...He makes average players better around him.

[slats]

18 minutes ago, Alka said:

Assuming he were to go #3 overall, then his draft value would be 2200 points.

The Cowboys have 950 points sitting at #17 overall, so I believe it is safe to assume that the Jets would need to get back #17, next years first round pick, and this years second round pick for it to be an equal trade.

So the basic flaw here is that when you draft that player at #3 overall, you control him for five years at artificially reduced rookie contract numbers. The team that trades for him will have to give him a big all pro veteran contract in the next two years, or spend their franchise tag on him or lose him. Those lost cheap years definitely diminish the trade value that you're suggesting here. 

The Cowboys 1st & 3rd would be excellent compensation. 

[Alka]

11 minutes ago, section314 said:

To be fair, Q was drafted #3. The value chart goes out the window after draft day. Your value is based on performance. An asset isn't based on what you pay for it, but what a new buyer will pay for it.

A couple  things about your post:

1. Yes, the value chart goes out the window after draft day.  And Jamal's draft value is better than #6 overall, based upon performance.  Q's draft value is yet to be determined, but right now it is questionable if he was worth the #3 pick in the entire draft.

2. An asset is based upon what a buyer will pay for it.  Yes, and also what a seller is willing to sell that asset for what the seller believes that asset is worth.  The Jets believe that Jamal is worth more than what the Cowboys are currently offering; thus no trade at this time.

[JetsFanatic]

19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

There’s more to it than that...

1) They  now have to pay him a lot as opposed to a rookie contract.

2) He has three years left at his prime - as opposed to 6.

Jets would be crazy to turn down 1 and 3 this year.  But he’s not getting traded so I wouldn’t worry about it.

The Jets would be nuts to make your trade as neither player would be as good as Jamal Adams.  

[JetsFanatic]

25 minutes ago, Alka said:

I must say I got this idea from another thread today regarding first round values and trading partners.

The Jets drafted Jamal #6 overall, but if all NFL teams knew ahead of time that he would be a all-pro safety, I believe he would have gone either #2 or #3 in the draft.

Assuming he were to go #3 overall, then his draft value would be 2200 points.

The Cowboys have 950 points sitting at #17 overall, so I believe it is safe to assume that the Jets would need to get back #17, next years first round pick, and this years second round pick for it to be an equal trade.

We don't know what number the Cowboys will pick next year, but it could be a higher pick or it could be a lower pick.  That't the chance that both teams need to assess.

For me, this is the minimum, and I believe it's reasonable.

Anyone suggesting that we get the Cowboys #17 and a third round pick this year then believes that Jamal doesn't deserve the reputation he has earned.

Why trade him if he equivalent to a # 3?   

[Alka]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

So the basic flaw here is that when you draft that player at #3 overall, you control him for five years at artificially reduced rookie contract numbers. The team that trades for him will have to give him a big all pro veteran contract in the next two years, or spend their franchise tag on him or lose him. Those lost cheap years definitely diminish the trade value that you're suggesting here. 

The Cowboys 1st & 3rd would be excellent compensation. 

I think everyone is missing the big picture here.  What is the goal?  The goal is to win the Super Bowl, and a still very young Jamal Adams will help the Dallas Cowboys get there.  No way I give up Jamal for a middle of the round hopeful in round #1, and a "shot in the dark" pick in the middle of round 3.  

[kdels62]

In a redone NFL draft of that year Jamal Adams would have been picked after:

Patrick Mahones, Deshaun Watson, Marshon Lattimore, Tre’Davious White, Alvin Kamara, Ju-Ju Smith Schuster, TJ Watt, Dalvin Cook, Kenny Golladay, Chris Godwin and possibly Eddie Jackson, Shaquill Griffin and Gareon Conley. 

So not 3rd overall.

[Alka]

1 minute ago, JetsFanatic said:

Why trade him if he equivalent to a # 3?   

I think you are correct.  You don't.  Unless someone overpays for him.  Always be listening, and that is what JD's job is to do.

[JetsFanatic]

Just now, Alka said:

I think you are correct.  You don't.  Unless someone overpays for him.  Always be listening, and that is what JD's job is to do.

Everybody has a price, I don’t disagree. My point is why push it? He is a great player. If we get a call and can make a “Herschel Walker” type trade, I’m in.

[slats]

Just now, Alka said:

I think everyone is missing the big picture here.  What is the goal?  The goal is to win the Super Bowl, and a still very young Jamal Adams will help the Dallas Cowboys get there.  No way I give up Jamal for a middle of the round hopeful in round #1, and a "shot in the dark" pick in the middle of round 3.  

You'd be giving him up for that and another $15M/year in cap space that could be spent elsewhere. 

You can't expect two #1s for a SS who can't catch, no matter what else he does on the field. Which is another flaw in your original premise: when is a strong safety ever worth the third pick in the draft? If Jamal Adams were entering this year's draft, when do you think he'd be off the board? I think he'd basically go in the mid-teens that we're talking about here. He wouldn't be a better prospect than the Simmons or the two CBs, let alone the OTs, WRs, and QBs who would all go before him. 

[Alka]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

In a redone NFL draft of that year Jamal Adams would have been picked after:

Patrick Mahones, Deshaun Watson, Marshon Lattimore, Tre’Davious White, Alvin Kamara, Ju-Ju Smith Schuster, TJ Watt, Dalvin Cook, Kenny Golladay, Chris Godwin and possibly Eddie Jackson, Shaquill Griffin and Gareon Conley. 

So not 3rd overall.

You know, you make an incredibly good point here!  And using your sound logic, then nobody should be drafting a safety at #6, no matter how good he may be.  I really believe that is your point, since a quality safety will not outweigh a quality quarterback or a position of bigger impact.

Still, he is an all-pro, and unless the Jets get back an all-pro, I want multiple picks that are better than guesses in the middle of round 1 and the middle of round 3.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

There are so many moving parts to consider with Jamal Adams. In a 2 dimensional world, trading Jamal Adams for a 1 and 3 doesn't make much sense. When you start playing around with other variables like his value to the team vs the size of the contract he will command, it starts to make more sense. Do you get 20 million dollars of production from a safety? I am not asking this in a sarcastic way.

I'm unsure how I feel about trading Jamal Adams. The thought of trading him doesn't excite me, or scare me. If teams offer a king's ransom, I'd lean toward trading him. If you could get a player who can fill a need in addition to valuable picks, I'd be all in on trading him. 

[T0mShane]

Jamal Adams was a ridiculously clean prospect and everyone knew what he was and who he would be. He didn’t go higher for the same reason. If the worst GM of all time Mike Maccagnan didn’t draft him, he probably slides into the early teens

[ljr]

4 minutes ago, Alka said:

 

I want multiple picks that are better than guesses in the middle of round 1 and the middle of round 3.

 

I want my wife to call my last 2 ex's and to have a weekend full of various combination bj's

[Beerfish]

40 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

It’s this guy. The hosts are definitely local broadcast guys but look at the tape. Burgess has two knocks against him: lack of length and missed tackles. I think after a year in NFL strength programs he’ll be fine. 

Scott Mitchell not in playing shape anymore I see.

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, Alka said:

You know, you make an incredibly good point here!  And using your sound logic, then nobody should be drafting a safety at #6, no matter how good he may be.  I really believe that is your point, since a quality safety will not outweigh a quality quarterback or a position of bigger impact.

Still, he is an all-pro, and unless the Jets get back an all-pro, I want multiple picks that are better than guesses in the middle of round 1 and the middle of round 3.

I don’t disagree that we need good  compensation to move on from Jamal. He’s young and pretty great for his role. But he is going to appeal to teams that feel close to a playoff run, lowering our comp to at least a mid first rounder every time.

[section314]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Jamal Adams was a ridiculously clean prospect and everyone knew what he was and who he would be. He didn’t go higher for the same reason. If the worst GM of all time Mike Maccagnan didn’t draft him, he probably slides into the early teens

Same as last year's pick. Rinse, wash,repeat.

[Beerfish]

I'm fully on board with trading Jamal Adams but even being as harsh of a critics as I am you would have to get a great deal.

1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year something along those lines minimum.

In any case he is not going be trade what is going to happen is:

- He will start beefing about no serious reneg of his deal this off season.

- He will really go into hold out mode next off season.

- There will be two years of drama and the he will be signed to a big fat huge deal.

-  A year later there will be huge buyers remorse on his contract.

If the jets have any intention of ever moving him now is the time to do it.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm fully on board with trading Jamal Adams but even being as harsh of a critics as I am you would have to get a great deal.

1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year something along those lines minimum.

In any case he is not going be trade what is going to happen is:

- He will start beefing about no serious reneg of his deal this off season.

- He will really go into hold out mode next off season.

- There will be two years of drama and the he will be signed to a big fat huge deal.

-  A year later there will be huge buyers remorse on his contract.

If the jets have any intention of ever moving him now is the time to do it.

Jamal is going to make it impossible not to sign or trade him. He’s not going to bite the bullet or act like a professional. If he’s on the roster next Thursday, it’s going to get very Terrell Owens up in this bitch

[derp]

I’ve gotten on board the move him train since the leak he’s skipping the virtual whatever. Not worth the headache. Terrible optics right now too. Just a bad decision.

Not like he wants to just work out somewhere else too. He’s sitting at home like everyone else. Literally can only be doing that to make a point.

All of that said, the Jets owe him what - $3.5M, $9.9M, and a tag if they do that to control him through 2022. Tag was $11.15M this year. Say it goes up to $15M even. Their next three years of him cost about $9.5M a year. Extension will pay him way more. That team control has to help leverage. This is a good time to move him.

Also I realize this is a nice draft to move him. But I do think the Cowboys are close to falling apart. Bleeding talent. I’d consider a two this year to get their one next year and a three next year.

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

The Jets drafted Jamal #6 overall, but if all NFL teams knew ahead of time that he would be a all-pro safety, I believe he would have gone either #2 or #3 in the draft.

yeah? I don't think so. He was always a low floor guy, so it was reasonable to assume at the very least he'd be good. But he's not explosive and plays a low value position. An all pro safety who doesn't generate turnovers just isn't worth a top 3 pick.

[Jets723]

I wonder how many Jamal threads we will have over the next 4 days ? 

[jetsfansince7]

If we dont get a first rounder for 33 or a producing cover corner or Edge, its a loss. 

[AFJF]

Not another thread to talk about whether or not he should be traded or extended, but this is a rare win-win situation for the Jets.

Joe Douglas is going to have a set price in his head for a deal and it won't be cheap.  Not for an All-Pro player about to enter his prime and who can be used effectively in a variety of roles.

If nobody is willing to give Douglas what he'll be asking for, the Jets still have control of Jamal for 2-3 years and he'll likely make several more All-Pro teams in that time.

Win-Win

[Beerfish]

In theory yes but Adams is not going to get better, if anything he will become less effective as the team adds pieces like a legit pass rusher.

His history also suggest even if we control him for more years he will start lamenting not being paid as he deserves.

I'll say one thing we will learn a lot about Douglas in how he handles this.

[JTJet]

77th Jamal Thread... 

[derp]

Adams apparently loses a year of accrual towards FA if he holds out of TC based on new CBA? Jets kind of have control if that’s the case. All that team control means a good time to trade him. Higher value.

[bla bla bla]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

In theory yes but Adams is not going to get better, if anything he will become less effective as the team adds pieces like a legit pass rusher.

His history also suggest even if we control him for more years he will start lamenting not being paid as he deserves.

I'll say one thing we will learn a lot about Douglas in how he handles this.

Yea this is kinda where I fall on this. I think this past season could be the most eye popping season from Jamal and it was against the bottom of the barrel team wise. Once we add an Edge Rusher then Jamal's value as a Rusher begin to lessen. That said there COULD be unknown benefits to having a Rusher and deploying Jamal elsewhere.

This would be the equivalent of trading Revis pre-Injury year. Don't risk his value tanking because of a hard schedule/injury when his value is at an all time high.

[docdhc]

The problem with Adams is that he’s not going to sit quietly while the Jets control him with the fifth year option and a franchise tag. He’s gonna hold out or be disruptive like he was last year when they just listened to possible trade offers. He may not show this year either.  

[ASH1962]

You all know these guys are a total pain in the rectum when it comes to money. The Jets have to sign him now or trade him now. No in between, to avoid a total headache.

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Not another thread to talk about whether or not he should be traded or extended, but this is a rare win-win situation for the Jets.

Joe Douglas is going to have a set price in his head for a deal and it won't be cheap.  Not for an All-Pro player about to enter his prime and who can be used effectively in a variety of roles.

If nobody is willing to give Douglas what he'll be asking for, the Jets still have control of Jamal for 2-3 years and he'll likely make several more All-Pro teams in that time.

Win-Win

The longer JD waits, the less he'll get. Trade him now and get it over with and maximize trade value..  Mindless to pay a box safety that doesnt produce turnovers for 15-17M per year. And if they franchise him, it will be costly, then they'd let him walk and get a lousy 3rd rounder in comp. Maybe. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

Since words don't work I figures I'd try to paint an (ugly) picture. 

We should trade him away and this way (while searching to replace him) we can draft the next All-Time great Jets Safety such as (too many to count) a....

Scott Frost: 3rd Round 1998).

John McGraw: 2nd Round (2002). 

Kerry Rhodes: 4th round (2005).

Andre Maddox: 5th round (2005). 

Justin Miller: 2nd round (2005).

(I'm sorry, Justin Miller was a busted CB and not a busted Safety (my fault) tbc...

Eric Smith: 3rd Round (2006).

Kyle Wilson: 1st round (2010). 

I'm sorry for including another busted CB; I just remembered as a CB he was so bad @ turning his head around to the point of (genius) Jet fans begging for him to play Safety. 

Antonio Allen: 7th round (2012).

Dee Milliner: 1st round (2013). 

Sorry for yet another busted CB while taking busted Safety's but they say 3 times is a charm and/or 3 strikes and you're out (Justin/Wilson/Milliner). 

Calvin Pryor: 1st round (2014). 

Hi. My name is the Louisville Slugger and I stink so bad that I have a baseball nickname as a football player; was similar to a baseball player named "Center Fielder" because he could catch but couldn't hit.

Sounds like a great idea. 

Rather than just pay our greatest Safety of All-Time (regardless if Free/Strong) let's just...

Waste another good 7-10 future draft picks while trying to replace the SS hole left by Adams (similar to the hole left behind by Victor Green after 2001).

And hey. If that doesn't work out again (draft picks) we can always sign guys off the street such as...

Ronnie Lott: 34-35 years old (1993-1994)

Steve Atwater: 33 years old (1999). 

Rudy: 2009-2011 (Jim Leonhard). 

James Ihedigbo: Undrafted (2008). 

Ed Reed: 35 years old (2013).

Etc etc and like the Energizer Bunny I could still keep going. 

Believe you me...

if we trade away Jamal Adams and I see us waste any more draft recourses and draft capital on more busts @ DB (instead of just swinging for O-Line, WR & Edge) along with any more past their prime washed up old veterans off the street such as Frost, McGraw, Sherry, Maddox, Miller, Eric, Kyle, Antonio, Dee, Louisville Strike Out Pryor, Lott, Atwater, Reed, Rudy or Ihedigbo etc

I will absolutely lose it; while mocking every Jets fan who ever wished to trade away my greatest Jets Safety of All-Time (while throwing away the heart and soul of our entire defense) @ the same time. 

 

 

 

[Barton]

Would he have more draft day trade value today had he not worn the ugliest draft day suit of all time?