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Where do Edmonds and Jones compare to all-time centerfielders?


Blackout

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Where do guys like Jim Edmonds and Andruw Jones, the best CF's over the past 5-10 years, rank among the all-time greats?

Anywhere near legends like Cobb, Dimaggio, Mays, Mantle etc?

They've put up the best numbers of all the centerfielders year in year out (nothing record breaking, but still solid stuff), although they play in an inflated offensive era and still dont have the peaks of Cobb/Dimaggio/Mays/Mantle type players

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Where do guys like Jim Edmonds and Andruw Jones, the best CF's over the past 5-10 years, rank among the all-time greats?

Anywhere near legends like Cobb, Dimaggio, Mays, Mantle etc?

They've put up the best numbers of all the centerfielders year in year out (nothing record breaking, but still solid stuff), although they play in an inflated offensive era and still dont have the peaks of Cobb/Dimaggio/Mays/Mantle type players

Yes. They both have defensive games that are among the best of this era. They also have more power then your average CFer. The only thing I think you can knock them on is their BAs and that is more for Jones a lifetime .250s hitter.

IMHO they are Hall of Fame bound. Both will probably be close to or over 10 Gold Gloves and Jones will and Edmonds might knock 400 HRs. That might be a small number now, but for CFers that is a pretty good number.

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Jones was on a legendary pace, in terms of his defense, for the first 4-5 years of his career. Since 2001 or 2002, he has dropped to an above average level. He definitely shouldn't make the Hall of Fame, or come close, unless he puts up some epic offensive numbers from here on out. This past year, outside of 50 HRs, was not a very good offensive year. Unfortunately, this society looks just at HRs, and thinks he had a great year. His OPS+ last year was 133. If you hit 50 HRs, and your OPS+ is anywhere NEAR being under 150, you were not that good.

Edmonds, while definitely closer to the HOF than Jones, still is not good enough to be in. Maybe his great defense gets him in, but he wasn't a good enough offensive player early on with the Angels. He had a few tremendous offensive seasons with the Cardinals, but it was too little too late.. His defense is still great, and he isn't living off reputation like Andruw Jones has been for the past few years.

I don't think either is a HOF at this point in time. Edmonds is close, but he needs to continue his great defensive play for 2-3 more years, and have 2-3 more HUGE offensive seasons, like greater than 150 OPS+. Jones needs to become a whole new player offensively to actually deserve a HOF nod, although I could see the people who never watch him and just listen to ESPN vote him in, because they think he's still a great defensive player.

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Jones lead the league in RBI and a had a pretty high slugging percentage too

not to mention his solid defensive numbers

He had a good offensive season, not great. Slugging percentage is based on playing in a heavy hitters park. 133 OPS+, which is adjusted for park factor, is not on the level some think it is.

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He had a good offensive season, not great. Slugging percentage is based on playing in a heavy hitters park. 133 OPS+, which is adjusted for park factor, is not on the level some think it is.

thats just because he wasn't good at contact hitting this year, his low BA holds down his OBP in his OPS+

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thats just because he wasn't good at contact hitting this year, his low BA holds down his OBP in his OPS+

Right, and that's part of the reason for him not having a great offensive season. Rodriguez (167), Pujols (167), Lee (177), Ortiz (161), these guys were the complete package, and they had great offensive seasons. Jones (133) was not on their level.

Still, he had a good offensive year. I just don't think of Andruw Jones as a great player worthy of the Hall of Fame, or being in the same sentence as some other generational players.

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Jones not only will be a HOF but he may go in on the first ballot.

Playing in Atlanta doesn't get him the pub that he would get playing in a big media market but he makes playing CF looks so easy. The only person that I have seen (and that is only on film) play CF as effortlessly as he does was Willie Mays.

Jones already has 300 HR's and he is only 28.

Edmonds will be an interesing case. Very underrated in my eyes with the glove but he is pushing the end of his career and I don't know if his numbers get him there.

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Right, and that's part of the reason for him not having a great offensive season. Rodriguez (167), Pujols (167), Lee (177), Ortiz (161), these guys were the complete package, and they had great offensive seasons. Jones (133) was not on their level.

Still, he had a good offensive year. I just don't think of Andruw Jones as a great player worthy of the Hall of Fame, or being in the same sentence as some other generational players.

his defense is probably the best of all time, sans Tris Speaker and either one of the Dimaggio brothers

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Cardinal fan here, and I can be a real homer about it. But even I have to admit, I don't see Jimmy as a HOFer. Like was said before, too little too late. And right now, being overshadowed on his own team by Pujols and even Rolen when he's healthy doesn't help either. I'll tip my hat to Larry Walker's chances, though.

You know, it stands to reason, if the Cards had won the last 2 WS, Edmonds would have stood a much better chance of making it in. That's if you go for the argument that titles increase the odds. Food for thought.

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Jones not only will be a HOF but he may go in on the first ballot.

Playing in Atlanta doesn't get him the pub that he would get playing in a big media market but he makes playing CF looks so easy. The only person that I have seen (and that is only on film) play CF as effortlessly as he does was Willie Mays.

Jones already has 300 HR's and he is only 28.

Edmonds will be an interesing case. Very underrated in my eyes with the glove but he is pushing the end of his career and I don't know if his numbers get him there.

Anyone who doubts about Jones getting into the HOF is fooling himself. He could get there on his glove alone. But he will also have pretty good numbers for a CF, when he hangs them all up.

While it may be true that his defense is not on the same level as it was his first 4-5 seasons, he still is head and shoulders above anyone else not named Edmonds. And that includes Griffey JR,Camerron, Beltran, or Hunter.

Edmonds, IMO, should get there, He is worth a highlight play a week, defensively. His bat is OK, although not anywhere near great, until recently. He gets in, but not right away.

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His defense was probably the best of all time. The past few years, his defense has been in DRAMATIC decline.

Sorry pal. You are way off.

Jones is still the best there is, sans Edmonds, who is a close second. No one else is on the same map. And the only one I ever saw who was better then Jones was Mays, whom I saw as a kid, his last few seasons. But Willie was still solid then.

My Father saw Mays, Dimag, Mantle, et al, in their primes. Mays was the best in his opinion. And he believes that even today, Jones is "darn close", to quote him.

I have heard enough Baseball from my Father over the decades to realize he is a true student of the game. If he says Jones is #2 to Mays over the past 65 years, that's good enough for me.

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Sorry pal. You are way off.

Jones is still the best there is, sans Edmonds, who is a close second. No one else is on the same map. And the only one I ever saw who was better then Jones was Mays, whom I saw as a kid, his last few seasons. But Willie was still solid then.

My Father saw Mays, Dimag, Mantle, et al, in their primes. Mays was the best in his opinion. And he believes that even today, Jones is "darn close", to quote him.

I have heard enough Baseball from my Father over the decades to realize he is a true student of the game. If he says Jones is #2 to Mays over the past 65 years, that's good enough for me.

That's fine, I'll use statistics, play by play transcripts, and my own eyes to tell me he's not nearly the defensive player he used to be.

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Good thread Blackout.

I would say Jones gets in easy as he has 300 HR's and will only turn 30 in August. He should barring injury, be close to 500 HR's when he hangs em up.

When you add those power numbers to his being the best defensive CF of his era and he should be a no brainer.

Edmonds IMO needs 4 or 5 more big stat seasons and I just don't see his body holding up for that long.

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