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Joe Thomas on the top 4 OTs


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7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Let's pretend those scouting reports are exactly what the Jets FO wrote up on each player.  Not necessarily the rank, just the pros and cons.  Who do you think they'd prefer?

My money would say Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton

I’d have Wills lower. Those penalties were a big focal point in FA. Probably Becton higher too.

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5 minutes ago, derp said:

I’d have Wills lower. Those penalties were a big focal point in FA. Probably Becton higher too.

Wirfs is my 4 th choice.   I’ve read too much about his lateral agility being suspect.  He may end up at guard or be purely a RT.  I’d rank them Thomas Wills Becton Wirfs

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5 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Wirfs is my 4 th choice.   I’ve read too much about his lateral agility being suspect.  He may end up at guard or be purely a RT.  I’d rank them Thomas Wills Becton Wirfs

Wills, Becton and Wirfs are not LT's. Becton and Wirfs would be better guards, Wills is a RT

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5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

I love good conspiracy theories. So the browns GM contacted Joe Thomas and said “hey tweet out that Becton is the best tackle”. So Thomas risks his analyst job to tweet nonsense hoping Gettleman sees it and takes Becton. Do you actually believe that’s what happened lol

There are a few teams looking to jump the Browns and Jets for these tackles. Sources use every media person to put out false info on teams FA or draft plans. It doesn't mean that person knows they're being used but it happens all of the time.

In this situation I don't think Thomas is being used. I think he is valuing upside over actual current talent. That's why he has Becton first. If he went by pro readiness Becton would be #4 on this list pretty easily. I don't think JD is going to base his 1st round decision on upside bc that comes with a big risk attached to it. He's going to take someone he knows will work in the scheme and that is ready to play right now. It may be a lower upside but someone they know will make an immediate impact. He needs to hit on the first 3 rounds. I would expect him to go with guys who may have a lower projected ceiling but a higher floor in those rounds.

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6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Becton frightens me because that type of prospect never works out for the Jets

This is where I feel that the importance of the draft pick itself gets overrated and the ability of a team to develop that pick gets underrated.

If a team cannot maximize the potential and the abilities of a player the blame gets placed on them being the wrong pick. As if a draft pick is 100% developed at the point you pick him and coaching, scheme fit, motivation have no role to play. 

The fear that those types of prospect never work, in my opinion, comes from the fact that we are poor at developing talent once we acquire it, rather than them never being any good in the first place. It's just easier / lazier to point at another player on another team and say "see, they made the better pick".

 

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28 minutes ago, jamesr said:

This is where I feel that the importance of the draft pick itself gets overrated and the ability of a team to develop that pick gets underrated.

If a team cannot maximize the potential and the abilities of a player the blame gets placed on them being the wrong pick. As if a draft pick is 100% developed at the point you pick him and coaching, scheme fit, motivation have no role to play. 

The fear that those types of prospect never work, in my opinion, comes from the fact that we are poor at developing talent once we acquire it, rather than them never being any good in the first place. It's just easier / lazier to point at another player on another team and say "see, they made the better pick".

 

Well, sure, but when I say that “these types of prospects never work out for the Jets,” I’m absolutely implicating their player development process, as well. I think Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon, Leonard Williams, Quinton Coples, and even Darron Lee were fairly talented, but they came here and floundered because of, in part, a weak infrastructure. Picking the right guy for the program AND developing him obviously goes hand in hand. 

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

Funny how a lot of Jets fans probably have this mentality.  Caught myself watching him one day and thinking "This dude's ceiling is HOF" and literally 10 seconds later thinking "I hope the Jets don't take him".

I'd honestly be fine if they did, but it just worries more more than the other guys.

It’s like what Paul Alexander said in your interview, “I don’t like outliers.” I think he was trying to reference Ereck Flowers (he pointed to Aaron Gibson, who was a fat bust for the Lions, but said it was “The Giants,” and I’m not saying that Becton is like Flowers, but it’s an example of how oversized players can struggle on the edge unless they’re mutagenic freaks.

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After watching the Auburn-Georgia game and primarily the Davidson vs Thomas matchup, I have soured on Thomas quite a bit. He didn't fair that well against Chaisson either. He is still my 4th rated OT, and would be happy to get him, but compared to the other 3, he's a step behind.

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27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, sure, but when I say that “these types of prospects never work out for the Jets,” I’m absolutely implicating their player development process, as well. I think Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon, Leonard Williams, Quinton Coples, and even Darron Lee were fairly talented, but they came here and floundered because of, in part, a weak infrastructure. Picking the right guy for the program AND developing him obviously goes hand in hand. 

I wonder how much of this is due to the nature of expectations for different teams? We do as a fan base seem to expect everything to get better overnight, and there's a lot of expectation that our draft picks should start right away and be great day 1? (For reference - try reading the latest DWC post :-) )

I also wonder how much this might play into the draft choices we make this week? Would Joe D pick a project / upside guy Rd 1 knowing that said player would likely not start Week 1? Or does he go for the more "sure thing" / pro ready player to establish his credentials as a finder of talent before picking the more boom-or-bust type guys in later rounds / drafts?

For the record - Becton scares me too, but with the latest news on his tests it's more likely now that he'll be there for us at 11. Hmmm ...

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

Wills, Becton and Wirfs are not LT's. Becton and Wirfs would be better guards, Wills is a RT

Not sure where you are getting your info from.   Becton played left tackle in college and is projected at left tackle.  Wills played right tackle but is said to have the tools to play left tackle. Wirfs played right tackle and is projected there or at guard.

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21 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I also wonder how much this might play into the draft choices we make this week? Would Joe D pick a project / upside guy Rd 1 knowing that said player would likely not start Week 1?

I think, in the past, player development was hampered here because neither the coach nor the GM was in charge and that leadership void impacted the culture in the building and players picked up on it—Revis and Cromartie knew it and passed it down to Sheldon and Mo, who passed it down to Darron Lee and Leonard Williams, and so on. If there’s no unified directive on expectations, then there’s no unified source of discipline, and that becomes an infection from top to bottom. Incidentally, this is why the Jamal Adams situation is interesting because it’ll tell us a lot about who’s in charge moving forward, and if it comes out that Douglas demurred to Chris Johnson on however it turns out, we’re right back in the death spiral.

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

What makes you think Becton is better suited to be a guard?

He is not a good pass protector.  He reaches a ton, gets off balanced and is slow off the ball to kick out.  He doesn't play to the quickness that his combine numbers suggested.  He gets away with it in college bc he's so huge but he won't against NFL rushers. That being said he's a mauler.  He'd be a better pass protector in a phone booth against bigger slower pass rushers and he could be a dominant run blocking guard. On the outside he's vulnerable to a guy with a power speed combo. 

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16 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Not sure where you are getting your info from.   Becton played left tackle in college and is projected at left tackle.  Wills played right tackle but is said to have the tools to play left tackle. Wirfs played right tackle and is projected there or at guard.

He's not a good enough pass protector to play LT in the NFL.  His feet aren't great,  he gets off balanced.  His size makes up for it in College.  That won't work in the NFL.  Wills is projected at LT, go look at his comments about it.  It doesn't sound like he wants to play there.  And projection is definitely different than actually doing it.  If you're looking for a for sure LT its Thomas or bust in my opinion. 

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1 minute ago, choon328 said:

He is not a good pass protector.  He reaches a ton, gets off balanced and is slow off the ball to kick out.  He doesn't play to the quickness that his combine numbers suggested.  He gets away with it in college bc he's so huge but he won't against NFL rushers. That being said he's a mauler.  He'd be a better pass protector in a phone booth against bigger slower pass rushers and he could be a dominant run blocking guard. On the outside he's vulnerable to a guy with a power speed combo. 

It's not that he isn't a good pass protector, he doesn't have the reps as one. He has good length, light on his feet and doesn't overset. He is a brawler as a run blocker but his shear size overwhelms many edge rushers. He is the prototypical LT, and is going to be a damn good one. The biggest issue for any team drafting him is him maintaining his weight. 

So I don't see a future guard, I see a ceiling of an All-Pro LT with a floor of a starting right tackle if he enjoys the buffet too much.

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Just now, Claymation said:

It's not that he isn't a good pass protector, he doesn't have the reps as one. He has good length, light on his feet and doesn't overset. He is a brawler as a run blocker but his shear size overwhelms many edge rushers. He is the prototypical LT, and is going to be a damn good one. The biggest issue for any team drafting him is him maintaining his weight. 

So I don't see a future guard, I see a ceiling of an All-Pro LT with a floor of a starting right tackle if he enjoys the buffet too much.

He actually isn't a fundamentally good pass protector.  His balance is bad, his feet are not great and he reaches too much.  His size allows him to get away with it against Eastern and Western Kentucky but it won't against good NFL rushers. He was thought of as a borderline 1st round talent before the combine.  His combine numbers pushed him up in the media but he doesn't play to those numbers. 

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2 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

It's simple for me...  

JD...a former OL...former scout...now NYJ GM...knows what he wants for Jets OL.  He will pick a tackle based on HIS assessment ability in conjunction with his scouts and CS.  JD has a 1-8 OL Big Board already ranked up.

I've been saying the same thing for weeks. I would bet good money JD only has 2 tackles rated for pick 11, maybe 3. But if those 2 (or 3) are gone, he goes receiver, unless a trade down offer he likes is received.

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10 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Let's pretend those scouting reports are exactly what the Jets FO wrote up on each player.  Not necessarily the rank, just the pros and cons.  Who do you think they'd prefer?

My money would say Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton

Wills has the most penalties and therefore the least appeal to JD 

Thomas, Becton, Wirfs, Wills

 

 

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

His feet aren't great,  he gets off balanced.  His size makes up for it in College.  That won't work in the NFL.  

We agree Wills doesn't sound like a LT and we agree Thomas is the safest but there is a level of Size that does work in the NFL. The Orlando Brown/Trent Brown level where if the dude gets his hands on you, you're done

Joe Thomas is right, Becton's ceiling is higher than any tackle to come out for the last decade (maybe more) 

they don't make 5.1 guys at 360, they just don't. Trent Brown is a slug compared to Becton 

he's really more of a Shaquille O'Neal type of prospect ultra-rare once in a generation size gifts

he's far from perfect but turning him down at 11 is being extra picky 

he should be gone by 11 

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39 minutes ago, viffer said:

I've been saying the same thing for weeks. I would bet good money JD only has 2 tackles rated for pick 11, maybe 3. But if those 2 (or 3) are gone, he goes receiver, unless a trade down offer he likes is received.

i have a hunch this is true.  i don't think the decision is, we'll take our highest rated tackle if any of the 4 are there at 11, over any of the wrs, regardless of the ranking.  i think there are scenarios where they either take a wr at 11 over a tackle they don't love, or trade back with den or atl when one of these tackles is available.  

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

We agree Wills doesn't sound like a LT and we agree Thomas is the safest but there is a level of Size that does work in the NFL. The Orlando Brown/Trent Brown level where if the dude gets his hands on you, you're done

Joe Thomas is right, Becton's ceiling is higher than any tackle to come out for the last decade (maybe more) 

they don't make 5.1 guys at 360, they just don't. Trent Brown is a slug compared to Becton 

he's really more of a Shaquille O'Neal type of prospect ultra-rare once in a generation size gifts

he's far from perfect but turning him down at 11 is being extra picky 

he should be gone by 11 

He doesn't fit the Jets scheme at all and since we know Douglas values scheme a lot in the draft I doubt they take him. 

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4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

He doesn't fit the Jets scheme at all and since we know Douglas values scheme a lot in the draft I doubt they take him. 

Gase wants to run wide splits

having a 6'7" tackle helps a team run wide splits

he's not actually a mauler/mean dude despite his size he's a finesse zone player. Just a really big one. 

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8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

But he's also the most agile and technically sound 

and also the shortest of the 4

JN had a podcast interview with Paul Alexander OL coach and he said " 6'5" is what you want, and If we're being honest 6'6" "

Wills and Wirfs are both around 6'4" which is fine if you're Trent Williams. 

but Gase wants giants. The bums they signed last year like Conor McDermott got actual playing time after Winters went down. There's a guy Kaufausi on the roster at the moment who's 6'9" 

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11 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Let's pretend those scouting reports are exactly what the Jets FO wrote up on each player.  Not necessarily the rank, just the pros and cons.  Who do you think they'd prefer?

My money would say Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton

Wills would be knocked down by his perceived mental lapse. Douglas signed guys with little to no penalties. If these are our scouting reports, I’ve got to imagine Wills has question marks.

Joe Thomas literally called out our running scheme when referring to Becton. So he probably gets high marks from a run blocking perspective.

Not quiet sure how we would rank them as it seems all have different flaws based on what we know the Jets want. Honestly, if this was Joe Douglas’ view we aren’t going OT with pick 11. Based on those reports, I can’t see Joe D banging on the table for any of them.

Would be nice to see what Joe Thomas thinks about the second tier OT. 

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Gase wants to run wide splits

having a 6'7" tackle helps a team run wide splits

he's not actually a mauler/mean dude despite his size he's a finesse zone player. Just a really big one. 

He doesn't move well in pass protection.  Putting him on an island outside would be a mistake against NFL edge rushers

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