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T0mShane

Jeremiah’s final top 150

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

it's gotten to the point where internet folk are underrating Becton

to be 20 years old, 6'7" running a 5.1, his physical gifts are so rare, it's 100 percent sparq any way you slice it 

I've seen some people ranking him as OT 4 or whatever cause he's an outlier 

that's caveman thinking

f--k yeah he's an outlier

like how Shaq was an outlier 

there was only 1 shaq and there's only 1 Becton. skillsets that rare come around every 20-30 years maybe? 

TL;DR there's no way this player should make it to 11, even if he pissed hot at the combine. Whatever excuses we can make about being too big or whatever he's just rare by NFL standards and rare by human standards.

At some point you have to be a good fundamental player.  He's sloppy in pass protection and he doesn't play with the quickness and agility that his combine statistics make you think he does. 

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Just now, RSJ said:

 


Maybe. But then I would slide Lamb into the Cards and Juedy into the Jags. Still leaves the Jets with the same issue. A position where there is a lot of verse a standout defender.


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Cardinals are not taking a WR after trading for Hopkins and drafting Kirk last year.  Simmons is going to the Panthers to replace Kueckly. There is no way he drops past 7. Here's how I see the top 10 picks going:

 

1 1 Cincinnati Bengals - QB Joe Burrow

1 2 Washington Redskins - DE Chase Young

1 3 Detroit Lions - CB Jeff Okudah

1 4 New York Giants - T Jedrick Wills

1 5 Miami Dolphins - LT Andrew Thomas

1 6 Los Angeles Chargers - T Mekhi Becton

1 7 Carolina Panthers - LB Isaiah Simmons

1 8 Arizona Cardinals - T Tristan Wirfs

1 9 (TRADE via Jax) Denver Broncos - WR Jerry Jeudy

1 10 Cleveland Browns - T Ezra Cleveland

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Cardinals are not taking a WR after trading for Hopkins and drafting Kirk last year.  Simmons is going to the Panthers to replace Kueckly. There is no way he drops past 7. Here's how I see the top 10 picks going:
 

1 1 Cincinnati Bengals - QB Joe Burrow

1 2 Washington Redskins - DE Chase Young

1 3 Detroit Lions - CB Jeff Okudah

1 4 New York Giants - T Jedrick Wills

1 5 Miami Dolphins - LT Andrew Thomas

1 6 Los Angeles Chargers - T Mekhi Becton

1 7 Carolina Panthers - LB Isaiah Simmons

1 8 Arizona Cardinals - T Tristan Wirfs

1 9 (TRADE via Jax) Denver Broncos - WR Jerry Jeudy

1 10 Cleveland Browns - T Ezra Cleveland



Simmons isnt a Mike lLB. He is a hybrid WLB/SS. I can go with the Cards thing even though I think their coach is nuts and thinks the only two positions that matter are a running QB and WRs.


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11 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 


You wouldnt be tired of it if they picked the right ones. Thats a big part of the problem. They wouldnt have to keep picking them if they picked good ones to begin with. I am more worried about passing on Warren Sapp for Kyle Brady again tbh.


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Part of the problem with that, though, is that the reason the guys they draft end up needing to be replaced is because they're at non premium positions with non premium skill sets that don't warrant second contracts. There's a reason those "elite" talents "fall" to the Jets every year. Other teams don't deem their skill set important. And in Adams' case - he's a good player. You've still got questions about paying him. 

Draft quarterbacks, edge rushers, and offensive tackles until you're blue in the face. Enough with the off ball linebackers, run stuffing defensive tackles, and safeties. And that year that you've got both guys on the roster is a total waste, too.

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5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Cardinals are not taking a WR after trading for Hopkins and drafting Kirk last year.  Simmons is going to the Panthers to replace Kueckly. There is no way he drops past 7. Here's how I see the top 10 picks going:

 

1 1 Cincinnati Bengals - QB Joe Burrow

1 2 Washington Redskins - DE Chase Young

1 3 Detroit Lions - CB Jeff Okudah

1 4 New York Giants - T Jedrick Wills

1 5 Miami Dolphins - LT Andrew Thomas

1 6 Los Angeles Chargers - T Mekhi Becton

1 7 Carolina Panthers - LB Isaiah Simmons

1 8 Arizona Cardinals - T Tristan Wirfs

1 9 (TRADE via Jax) Denver Broncos - WR Jerry Jeudy

1 10 Cleveland Browns - T Ezra Cleveland

 

Yuck.  That would suck. 

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Part of the problem with that, though, is that the reason the guys they draft end up needing to be replaced is because they're at non premium positions with non premium skill sets that don't warrant second contracts. There's a reason those "elite" talents "fall" to the Jets every year. Other teams don't deem their skill set important. And in Adams' case - he's a good player. You've still got questions about paying him. 
Draft quarterbacks, edge rushers, and offensive tackles until you're blue in the face. Enough with the off ball linebackers, run stuffing defensive tackles, and safeties. And that year that you've got both guys on the roster is a total waste, too.


Yeah I can agree with that for the most part. They did take a crack at some of those premium positions though. I mean Leonard Williams was supposed to be able to rush the passer. Dee Millner was supposed to be a lock down corner. But we probably wouldnt be picking at 11 this year if those picks worked out. For the record Simmons does get after the QB from all over the defense. He may not fall but if he does I think you have to take him.


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24 minutes ago, choon328 said:

At some point you have to be a good fundamental player.  He's sloppy in pass protection and he doesn't play with the quickness and agility that his combine statistics make you think he does. 

NFL staffs have highly paid coaches to teach 20 year olds how to play football 

whoever drafts any of the 'big 4' will have to teach them fundamentals

Frank Pollack btw is considered a top 10 if not top 5 OL coach. he was in Dallas from 2013-2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Pollack_(American_football)

as for the comment in bold we agree to disagree. 

either way you seem like a person at least familiar with parcells planet theory 

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4 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 


Yeah I can agree with that for the most part. They did take a crack at some of those premium positions though. I mean Leonard Williams was supposed to be able to rush the passer. Dee Millner was supposed to be a lock down corner. But we probably wouldnt be picking at 11 this year if those picks worked out. For the record Simmons does get after the QB from all over the defense. He may not fall but if he does I think you have to take him.


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I don’t think Williams as a pass rusher was a good call for obvious reasons. Same with frankly all of the defensive tackle picks. And the corners are fine but have been a lot of misses since Revis. And frankly last year’s corners weren’t too bad once the overpriced guys got benched.

I think Simmons is an outstanding prospect. Have posted it in other threads. I’d just be happier if they had a plan to use him with Adams instead of as a replacement. Even if I’m tired of Adams. Play Simmons at linebacker, trade Adams for a haul, bring in a SS prospect would be fine too. But flipping high first round picks for third rounders year after year does not a successful franchise make.

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5 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

I'm still perplexed as to why, when evaluating Chase Young, no one brings up the fact that he basically disappeared in Ohio St's last 3 games vs Mich, Wisc. & Clemson and only had 6 unassisted tackles in those 3 games. Kirwan mentioned it on NFL radio during one of their mock drafts last week. He only had 32 unassisted tackles for the season. Personally, I got Vernon Gholston flashbacks when I watched him in 2 of those games.

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/19Season_Final.pdf

I agree. There seems to be this infatuation with the POTENTIAL of DL/Edge hybrids that when combined with unusual measurables gets them wildly overrated as prospects. Throw in a couple super highlight plays (see: Clowney) and they all of a sudden become the "best player in the draft". Didn't Macloser draft 3 of the best defensive players in the draft?

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Interesting to note - Prince Tega Wanogho and Lucas Niang are not on this top 150. Both get picked in second and third rounds of mocks a lot. Guessing it’s not talent related but medical since both have questions there. Bet they’re going to slide.

The tier of tackles after the day 2 guys got pushed up a little. Imagine that’s part of it.

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17 hours ago, choon328 said:

Cardinals are not taking a WR after trading for Hopkins and drafting Kirk last year.  Simmons is going to the Panthers to replace Kueckly. There is no way he drops past 7. Here's how I see the top 10 picks going:

 

1 1 Cincinnati Bengals - QB Joe Burrow

1 2 Washington Redskins - DE Chase Young

1 3 Detroit Lions - CB Jeff Okudah

1 4 New York Giants - T Jedrick Wills

1 5 Miami Dolphins - LT Andrew Thomas

1 6 Los Angeles Chargers - T Mekhi Becton

1 7 Carolina Panthers - LB Isaiah Simmons

1 8 Arizona Cardinals - T Tristan Wirfs

1 9 (TRADE via Jax) Denver Broncos - WR Jerry Jeudy

1 10 Cleveland Browns - T Ezra Cleveland

Trade down and take OT Josh Jones.  Accumulate more picks.  Get a WR in round 2.  Maybe even in round 3.

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22 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

hogwash.  the reality is you don't get that long to demonstrate that you're a good gm.  the best way to do it is to have your first ever draft pick kick butt from day 1.  draft lamb, watch him star, douglas looks good.  draft bechton, have him protect darnold, douglas looks good.  trade back, draft jackson and he's just not up to speed year 1, all of a sudden people will start questioning him.  

He’s on a six year deal that pays him almost double of what Maccagnan got (iiirc). He’s going to be methodical.

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s on a six year deal that pays him almost double of what Maccagnan got (iiirc). He’s going to be methodical.

And I’m saying that douglas really, really wants to get a star with his first ever pick, rather than trade back and get a functional starter and extra picks.  He’s been in the biz long enough to know that you don’t get forever regardless of your contract.  

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12 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

And I’m saying that douglas really, really wants to get a star with his first ever pick, rather than trade back and get a functional starter and extra picks.  He’s been in the biz long enough to know that you don’t get forever regardless of your contract.  

I guess it depends on what you mean by “star.” If, say, Jed Wills becomes Zack Martin here, I think Douglas would give you his left pinkie for that outcome

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Just now, T0mShane said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by “star.” If, say, Jed Wills becomes Zack Martin here, I think Douglas would give you his left pinkie for that outcome

Agreed.  Here you have a guy, douglas, whose expertise is OL, making his first ever pick, so if he takes an OL at 11 and the guy just isn’t good, it doesn’t reflect well on him.  Now, what if douglas trades back, and doesn’t pick a guy like wills who is on the board, and then takes a guy like jones or jackson and that guy isn’t good.  Well, this looks even worse for him.  Reputations are made early, and this is douglas’ first chance to establish it.  

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Has to be one of the OT's at 11. Would be delighted if Thomas were available. Been the most impressive from what I've seen. 

The WR depth seems to be there although I'd be pissed if we took Pittman. His ceiling seems very limited - Jamison Crowder level. His lack of separation at USC is pretty ominous and he doesn't exactly have excpetional physical skills to compensate. 

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44 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Agreed.  Here you have a guy, douglas, whose expertise is OL, making his first ever pick, so if he takes an OL at 11 and the guy just isn’t good, it doesn’t reflect well on him.  Now, what if douglas trades back, and doesn’t pick a guy like wills who is on the board, and then takes a guy like jones or jackson and that guy isn’t good.  Well, this looks even worse for him.  Reputations are made early, and this is douglas’ first chance to establish it.  

Good points. Whenever someone talks a lot about “establishing a culture,” the unsaid part is that they’re “establishing a culture” wherein they are the unquestioned shepherd of that group. It’ll be important for Douglas to have early success and, also, to squash dissent. If I was him, I’d keep the 11 pick because you’re guaranteed to get a pretty safe prospect there, and I’d find ways to get more picks, even if those picks are in future years. I don’t feel like we’re going to come away from this draft thinking Douglas is a mastermind who made us a contender overnight, rather, I think he’ll pick a bunch of middle-class grinders who will be (hopefully) solid contributors in three years. RT’s, possession receivers, a running back, a backup QB, TE, DE, 

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6 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

The WR depth seems to be there although I'd be pissed if we took Pittman. His ceiling seems very limited - Jamison Crowder level.

A 6’4”, 220 lb Jamison Crowder would be a hell of a player in this league

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53 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Agreed.  Here you have a guy, douglas, whose expertise is OL, making his first ever pick, so if he takes an OL at 11 and the guy just isn’t good, it doesn’t reflect well on him.  Now, what if douglas trades back, and doesn’t pick a guy like wills who is on the board, and then takes a guy like jones or jackson and that guy isn’t good.  Well, this looks even worse for him.  Reputations are made early, and this is douglas’ first chance to establish it.  

Flip side - the draft is a crapshoot. Partially because it’s hard to evaluate talent, partially because football is a violent sport and some guys don’t last that long physically.

Douglas has been in the business long enough to know that, and have spent most of his career with a franchise that’s made its living picking in volume. He knows this is a deep class in several areas he needs to add talent, and the more swings he takes the better chance he connects.

You get stars all over the place. I don’t think a single first team all pro from 2019 was drafted in the top five. Five were drafted between six and ten. Two between eleven and fifteen. Three sixteen to twenty. Seven in the remainder of the first round. Three in the second, two in the third, one in the fifth, one in the sixth.

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30 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

A 6’4”, 220 lb Jamison Crowder would be a hell of a player in this league

Wow, that height surprised me. Doesn't look big at all when watching him.

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4 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Doesn't look big at all when watching him.

That’s what she said

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On 4/21/2020 at 9:24 AM, sec101row23 said:

People get way too caught up in this “he disappeared in games” mantra.  If you look at just stats you aren’t really looking at anything.  If you watch those games, you would see that those teams specifically game planned on not letting Young beat them.  Constant double and even triple teams.   I can tell you from the Clemson game that they didn’t leave Young one on one unless it was a run play to the opposite side of the field.   Game context is vital if you are truly evaluating a guy.  I’m not sure how you can get Vernon Gholston vibes when watching Young, they are two entirely different players.  

I agree he is no Gholston but if he is that good should a college team be able to completely neutralize him  with scheme and double teams?

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44 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I agree he is no Gholston but if he is that good should a college team be able to completely neutralize him  with scheme and double teams?

Sure.  Just look at the teams that kept him in check.  Michigan, Wisconsin and Clemson.  It’s not like Western Michigan, Toledo and Furman stoned him.  All 3 of those teams at the end of the season have NFL offensive linemen playing.  

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8 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Sure.  Just look at the teams that kept him in check.  Michigan, Wisconsin and Clemson.  It’s not like Western Michigan, Toledo and Furman stoned him.  All 3 of those teams at the end of the season have NFL offensive linemen playing.  

I don't know.  The best players get double teamed in the NFL, like Aaron Donald, and still produce.  We'll have to revisit this in a year or two.

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If lamb is on the board he is the pick don’t matter who else is there you take lamb and you don’t trade down when the best receiver is there and we have not had a true #1 in a loooooog time. Next year there will be ol graded the same as the top 4 this year. I think lamb is special and you don’t find that kinda of receiver every year in draft.

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22 hours ago, choon328 said:

C Here's how I see the top 10 picks going:

 

1 1 Cincinnati Bengals - QB Joe Burrow

1 2 Washington Redskins - DE Chase Young

1 3 Detroit Lions - CB Jeff Okudah

1 4 New York Giants - T Jedrick Wills

1 5 Miami Dolphins - LT Andrew Thomas

1 6 Los Angeles Chargers - T Mekhi Becton

1 7 Carolina Panthers - LB Isaiah Simmons

1 8 Arizona Cardinals - T Tristan Wirfs

1 9 (TRADE via Jax) Denver Broncos - WR Jerry Jeudy

1 10 Cleveland Browns - T Ezra Cleveland

 

do you really think no QB besides Burrows goes top 10?? 

That seems unbelievable to me.

In your choices above you have a team moving up in trade for a WR ... even if none of these teams above don't pick a QB certainly another team will make a trade offer that can't be refused

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17 minutes ago, ljr said:

 

do you really think no QB besides Burrows goes top 10?? 

That seems unbelievable to me.

In your choices above you have a team moving up in trade for a WR ... even if none of these teams above don't pick a QB certainly another team will make a trade offer that can't be refused

I just think there are too many question marks for Tua and I think Herbert is being overrated by the media. 

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