RobR...the floor is yours!

[CrazyCarl40]

Potential is great. How much work and polish does the kid need? Do you trust the Gase led staff to do it? I don’t. 

[JetFreak89]

Stop being a simpleton. You know that's not what I said. 
I'm saying if it's so clear to everyone that he is a generational talent, how come he wasnt the first or even second OT taken? 
The argument FOR him is based around JD knowing best because of his upside and we should trust an NFL GMs talent evaluation over a fan. 
Well multiple GMs passed on him, and not only that, two chose other OT prospects over him, thus negating that argument. 

No doubt. And I can admit that out of all the OT’s, Becton scares me the most. Visions of a Stephen Hill and Vlad Ducasse flash in my head because I know that “potential” is another way of saying “they haven’t done it yet but could in the future”.

BUT we’ve spent the last however many drafts selecting “the best player in the draft” and haven’t had much success there either. I can be optimistic about this pick because (1) Douglas hasn’t had a chance to let me down in the draft yet and he can be a much better evaluator than our previous GM’s (2) Previous players failing have no impact on how well Becton develops (3) Other teams find quality talent in players who weren’t the first or second player selected in their positions ALL the time. As Jets fan’s, we just aren’t used to it happening to us.


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Potential is great. How much work and polish does the kid need? Do you trust the Gase led staff to do it? I don’t. 

He's better right now than any tackle we have on the roster. 

[JTJet]

15 minutes ago, RobR said:

He's better right now than any tackle we have on the roster. 

Now that's an angle I can at least see honestly. Nowhere but up. 

[CTM]

3 hours ago, RobR said:

I can't rehash it all out here but I've been pretty consistent and posted a ton of tape and interviews. We'll have the best LT in the league within 3 years. 

Not a big college guy but I've read your stuff over the years here and there and you seem to have a pretty good read on this stuff. Definitely feel a bit better about the pic after reading your thoughts

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

Imagine posting such garbage.

As if third overall at the position or eleventh overall in the draft is somehow a negative. Plenty of generational talents have been the 3rd or lower taken at their position. It’s a f*cking draft. These sorts of high ceiling prospects exist at every position with every sort of result.

Generational prospects, almost by definition, are taken #1 at thier position. He didnt say generational player, he said prospect. Different.

 

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, RobR said:

Just add in that he's not some fat slob and shouldn't try and cut 20 lbs. He's a fit 360lbs.

Can dunk a basketball. Played Full court basketball. Ran a 5 sec 40. That is sick.

[GreenReaper]

1 hour ago, JetFreak89 said:

 

No doubt. And I can admit that out of all the OT’s, Becton scares me the most. Visions of a Stephen Hill and Vlad Ducasse flash in my head because I know that “potential” is another way of saying “they haven’t done it yet but could in the future”.

BUT we’ve spent the last however many drafts selecting “the best player in the draft” and haven’t had much success there either. I can be optimistic about this pick because (1) Douglas hasn’t had a chance to let me down in the draft yet and he can be a much better evaluator than our previous GM’s (2) Previous players failing have no impact on how well Becton develops (3) Other teams find quality talent in players who weren’t the first or second player selected in their positions ALL the time. As Jets fan’s, we just aren’t used to it happening to us.


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

JD...in some way shape and form...will be hands on overseering Becton's development.  He didn't have the kind of control to shape how FA was going to play out.  But Becton-Wirfs vs Jeudi-Ruggs-Lamb...that he had total.  That's all on him.  His baby.  And baby Becton will get papa JD's full devotion and attention.  No excuses are needed.  Becton is his guy.  And I'm sure he's proud of what he did.  While other GM's didn't want to risk their job security...JD did. 

The only thing I worried about had nothing to do with Becton's physical talents.  Which is on another level...above us mere mortals.  But had to do with his character and maturity.  JD had to be satisfied that that wasn't going to be an issue going forward.  Cause this pick for him is the equivolent of his QB.  It's his coming out party moment pick.  It's his most signature moment as GM NYJ.  He can never live it down if Becton fails.  Not on the field...but in life.  As in 4 game suspension. One year suspension.  And goodbye.

Now...SOJF...that means glory and success don't ever happen hear to JetLand.  Oh no no.  Don't scare me with that.  You get real nervous and break out in a sweat if it looks like something special might be heading Jets way.

What can I say...but give it one more chance with...JD.  It's the last dance...for many of us...that bleed green

  

[JetsLife]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Bad choice. Darnold needs immediate help and we take a project. Good news for Danold turthers--another year of excuses ready made.

A consensus top 15 tackle = a "project" who won't provide "immediate help"? Got it.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm having the same problems here understanding the criticism. 3-year starter, both positions, Jacobs trophy, high projections prior to his final year. The fact that his workout numbers are freakish only solidifies the credentials: Aside from the drug test, which we have no idea the context, what's the problem? 

Guys, pay attention to this post.  RJF has been negative about our first round picks the last 5 years immediately after they happened, and was correct on at least 4 of them.

This is high praise for Becton.

[BurnleyJet]

Jonathan Ogden 2.0

[RobR]

1 minute ago, BurnleyJet said:

Jonathan Ogden 2.0

Ogden will be considered version 2.0 when Becton is done.

[BurnleyJet]

5 minutes ago, RobR said:

Ogden will be considered version 2.0 when Becton is done.

If he’s a half the player I’m happy. At lease he shouldn’t get run over like that light weight we had at Tackle the last few years Kelvin Beachum.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, JTJet said:

Sorry I cant buy that. 

If he was a generational prospect, he wouldnt have been the 3rd OT taken at pick 11. 

 

• In 2014, Aaron Donald was taken # 14 overall.  He was the 2nd DL and 5th defensive player taken in that draft.  
• In 2002, Ed Reed was taken # 24 overall.  He was the 4th DB taken.  
• In 2011, JJ Watt was taken # 11 overall.  He was the 3rd DL off the board.
• In 2005, Aaron Rodgers was taken # 24 overall.  He was the 2nd QB off the board.
• In 2004, Ben Roethlisberger was taken # 11 overall.  He was the 3rd QB off the board.
• In 2001, Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick.  
• In 2008, Calais Campbell was a 2nd round pick.  
• In 2013, DeAndre Hopkins was taken # 27 overall.  He was the 2nd WR taken.  

 

Not saying Becton will end up in that category at all.  Just pointing out that how many teams who pass on a guy is irrelevant in a discussion of who can be a "generational talent".

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

• In 2014, Aaron Donald was taken # 14 overall.  He was the 2nd DL and 5th defensive player taken in that draft.  
• In 2002, Ed Reed was taken # 24 overall.  He was the 4th DB taken.  
• In 2011, JJ Watt was taken # 11 overall.  He was the 3rd DL off the board.
• In 2005, Aaron Rodgers was taken # 24 overall.  He was the 2nd QB off the board.
• In 2004, Ben Roethlisberger was taken # 11 overall.  He was the 3rd QB off the board.
• In 2001, Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick.  
• In 2008, Calais Campbell was a 2nd round pick.  
• In 2013, DeAndre Hopkins was taken # 27 overall.  He was the 2nd WR taken.  

 

Not saying Becton will end up in that category at all.  Just pointing out that how many teams who pass on a guy is irrelevant in a discussion of who can be a "generational talent".

 

Or, this!

3 hours ago, derp said:

NFL teams are reluctant to take good players who come in unusual packages.

Not that he’ll be at the same level - but this is similar good football player and freak athlete in a weird package territory to JJ Watt and Aaron Donald. Productive in college, great athlete, abnormal, fell.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

If he’s a half the player I’m happy. At lease he shouldn’t get run over like that light weight we had at Tackle the last few years Kelvin Beachum.

He's athletically superior to Ogden when it comes to measurables. JD knocked it out of the park with this draft pick.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Congrats on posting 200 posts and achieving what I accomplished with 1.

Why do you insist on being such a d*ck?  It's like you're trying to impress a group of High Schoolers.

[RichardTodd27]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

He's athletically superior to Ogden when it comes to measurables. JD knocked it out of the park with this draft pick.

God bless you.

Helping me get rid of my remorse for not taking Wirfs.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

You know, this is one of the better posts I've read on here.  Really made me go hmmm.  I had never really thought of it like that, but you are on to something I think.  People like to use labels in sports.  When they can't find an appropriate one, it makes them overthink.

This was the basis for the Billy Beane model:  Uncovering hidden gems in the data; guys who were overlooked based on preconceived notions and market inefficiency.  

[PS17]

5 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

God bless you.

Helping me get rid of my remorse for not taking Wirfs.

Seriously. I first read about Becton in January in the draft forum, loved him as a prospect, then soured a bit as I read all the “low floor, project” stuff. And now I remember why I loved him before I got into the over analysis. Draft season is a toxic echo chamber. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Stop being a simpleton. You know that's not what I said. 

I'm saying if it's so clear to everyone that he is a generational talent, how come he wasnt the first or even second OT taken? 

The argument FOR him is based around JD knowing best because of his upside and we should trust an NFL GMs talent evaluation over a fan. 

Well multiple GMs passed on him, and not only that, two chose other OT prospects over him, thus negating that argument. 

 

Because GM's don't always get things right, and thus can very easily miss out on generational talents?

If Aaron Donald was such a generational talent, why did 4 GM's take defensive players over him, and 1 take a different Defensive Lineman?

If Aaron Rodgers was such a generational talent, why did Alex Smith go # 1 and and Rodgers fell all the way to the end of Round 1?

If Pat Mahomes was such a generational talent, why did the Bears take Mitch Trubisky at # 2 overall over him?

It's a nonsensical argument that has zero bearing on the argument at hand.  A player can absolutely be a generational talent even when GM's pick other players at his position first.  Because a lot of GM's are dumb.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

Generational prospects, almost by definition, are taken #1 at thier position. He didnt say generational player, he said prospect. Different.

 

Well in that case its a silly way for him to approach the argument.  We're talking in this thread about what we project him to become, not what the consensus view of him was entering the draft.  

RobR is saying he'll be the best LT in the league within 3 years.  That's the relevant argument up for debate.

[TheMo]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Stop being a simpleton. You know that's not what I said. 

I'm saying if it's so clear to everyone that he is a generational talent, how come he wasnt the first or even second OT taken? 

The argument FOR him is based around JD knowing best because of his upside and we should trust an NFL GMs talent evaluation over a fan. 

Well multiple GMs passed on him, and not only that, two chose other OT prospects over him, thus negating that argument. 

This argument is very flawed. Ray Lewis was the fourth linebacker chosen in his draft. You would be going off about he can't be generational since he was passed over. Teams can make mistakes. We're Jets fans FFS we of all people should get that. 

[PS17]

7 minutes ago, TheMo said:

This argument is very flawed. Ray Lewis was the fourth linebacker chosen in his draft. You would be going off about he can't be generational since he was passed over. Teams can make mistakes. We're Jets fans FFS we of all people should get that. 

Correct. Generational prospects do not always turn into generational players (or even very good players). And of course generational players like Brady and Antonio Brown get completely overlooked in the process.

i.e. This is a very stupid debate.

[Guilhermezmc]

3 hours ago, JTJet said:

Imagine posting your reply and still being so wrong. 

If he was "generational" he wouldn't have been picked 3rd at his position. Period. 

Whats your excuse for Russell Wilson?

[TheMo]

5 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Whats your excuse for Russell Wilson?

Or Lamar Jackson. I mean the list goes on. He's acting like this is buying a computer where you know the specs on a prospect and the performance is guaranteed. 

[Bowles Movement]

4 hours ago, JTJet said:

Sorry I cant buy that. 

If he was a generational prospect, he wouldnt have been the 3rd OT taken at pick 11. 

JJ Watt went at 11.

[Irish Jet]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

Generational prospects, almost by definition, are taken #1 at thier position. He didnt say generational player, he said prospect. Different.

 

Meh - talent/prospect, it's semantics and a pretty stupid way of evaluating a pick in this context as he's doing. Most of the ones built that way don't live up to the hype. Vick, Bush, Luck, Clowney etc. hell Quinnen Williams had the term generational talent thrown around for what that's worth

Besides you evidently can be a generational prospect and fall for other reasons. Obvious examples being Marino, Moss, Sapp, Bryant, Tunsil - considered the most talented at their position (by quite a bit in some cases) but fell due to other concerns. Went on to be the best in the league at their position. 

There are loads of high risk/high ceiling players in drafts that go later and always have been. Becton hasn't exactly fallen far. There doesn't seem to be any debate that Becton's ceiling is one of utter dominance. He is the highest OT on a ton of reputable big boards.  To say it's a red flag that he was drafted 11th overall, 3rd at his position is f*cking asinine. 

[Losmeister]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

I remember getting approximately seventy-four zillion butt fumbles for calling Gholston a bust. Sorry folks, I said it thus it is so.

i feel wary about the pick, but dont have enough knowledge or have done enough reviewing to say definitively as you do. i liked that wirfs was  a hs wrestling champ @ 285 lb....   more than this kids 40 time. and woulda felt better about wirfs, although i wanted a wr if we had our choice...and we did...   and we passed. 

jeudy, cd, ruggs...   and wirfs...  and mekhi...   i'll be curious to see who is the most impactful player of all these

[Joejet]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

In three years he might be a good OL

Just out of curiosity, does job stand for just gonna bitch?

[CrazyCarl40]

6 hours ago, RobR said:

He's better right now than any tackle we have on the roster. 

That’s not very hard. That also doesn’t speak well of JDs free agency. Again, for this kid to get to the next level, do you trust Gase?

[T0mShane]

Did Gase or Douglas say if Becton is playing RT or LT yet?

[freestater]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

I remember getting approximately seventy-four zillion butt fumbles for calling Gholston a bust. Sorry folks, I said it thus it is so.

The buttfumble hadn't happened yet when we drafted Gholston. 

So, even though you said it, it was not thusly so.

[Jetmech]

So who in Thomas vs Becton, who wins?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[freestater]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Did Gase or Douglas say if Becton is playing RT or LT yet?

It's always pass to the left.