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Mims seems like a cant miss prospect, right?


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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Dude, you seem pretty angry.  It was just opinion.

Of course it matters.  Certain skill translate better to the NFL than others.  Guys that can get serration are and can very often be great NFL receivers - just that they’re more likely to bust than a guy with big, strong hands, large catch radius that go up and gets the ball.

lol, im not, i have a way with words i guess. i'm persuasive.

Point was, receivers win in different ways. this micro-level analysis doesn't tell us all that much. if the guy is putting up numbers, he probably knows what he is doing. it doesn't make a difference.

Now whether he's a good fit for a certain type of QB/offense...that makes a big difference. Sam needs to be comfortable throwing to him, ultimately that will decide whether or not he's a good pick

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Via Cimini:
Mims had 20 drops in three years, including 11 in 2018 (hand injury).
Rich Cimini ⁦‪@RichCimini‬⁩
Drops issue with Denzel Mims a bit overblown. Had 5 last year for a 4.3 drop pct. That’s actually lower than CeeDee Lamb (5.4) and Jerry Jeudy (4.5), per ⁦‪@ESPNStatsInfo‬⁩. Concerning stat is only 3.0 YAC per per catch. That’s low for someone that big, that fast. #Jets
4/25/20, 10:23 AM
That is comforting what about his route running that was the other thing they nailed him for im assuming that is something that can be fixed atleast to an extent.

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5 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

I don't know the details, i'll take your word for it.

But injuries aren't a criteria for getting an invite/draft rating. If somebody in the league likes you, its there. Look at shenault or aiyuk this year.

Mims, to my knowledge, didn't receive an invite. big red flag. Doesn't mean he can't have a great career, but its a valid concern.

Aiyuk returned to Arizona State after his junior year and had a breakout senior year. So not sure what you’re getting at there. He’s actually the example of older prospect teams should be worried about.

You also lost me with getting a draft rating. Mims was a draftable prospect last year and returned to raise his stock. There’s the evaluations from the advisory committee as well, but I believe players request those. I was speculating as to why he came back, but to improve stock coming off a year with a bunch of drops would make sense.

Also kind of got buried but he made some comments about Philly that may have spooked teams.

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3 minutes ago, derp said:

Aiyuk returned to Arizona State after his junior year and had a breakout senior year. So not sure what you’re getting at there. He’s actually the example of older prospect teams should be worried about.

You also lost me with getting a draft rating. Mims was a draftable prospect last year and returned to raise his stock. There’s the evaluations from the advisory committee as well, but I believe players request those. I was speculating as to why he came back, but to improve stock coming off a year with a bunch of drops would make sense.

Also kind of got buried but he made some comments about Philly that may have spooked teams.

Aiyuk was a JUCO transfer. Different situation. he only had 2 years in a D1 program. and you're right about his age being a worry, that was a legitimate concern. the 49ers ignored it.

Basically, you get an invite from the NFL to work out at the combine, they send you a rating with that invite. Then you forego your senior year. Mims didn't get one at the end of his junior year.

you can still succeed if you weren't invited:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2019/02/26/nfl-scouting-combine-10-notable-players-not-invited-julian-edelman/2935827002/

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1 minute ago, predator_05 said:

Aiyuk was a JUCO transfer. Different situation. he only had 2 years in a D1 program. and you're right about his age being a worry, that was a legitimate concern. the 49ers ignored it.

Basically, you get an invite from the NFL to work out at the combine, they send you a rating with that invite. Then you forego your senior year. Mims didn't get one at the end of his junior year.

you can still succeed if you weren't invited:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2019/02/26/nfl-scouting-combine-10-notable-players-not-invited-julian-edelman/2935827002/

Except those players were never invited to the combine.  Mims was invited, just not after his junior year.  

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4 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Aiyuk was a JUCO transfer. Different situation. he only had 2 years in a D1 program. and you're right about his age being a worry, that was a legitimate concern. the 49ers ignored it.

Basically, you get an invite from the NFL to work out at the combine, they send you a rating with that invite. Then you forego your senior year. Mims didn't get one at the end of his junior year.

you can still succeed if you weren't invited:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2019/02/26/nfl-scouting-combine-10-notable-players-not-invited-julian-edelman/2935827002/

Yes I’m aware Aiyuk was a JUCO. You’re talking about Mims returning to college after his junior year at a major college program. Aiyuk did as well.

And that’s not quite how it works. The scouting combine invites are extended to players who entered the draft. Mims never entered the draft. Wasn’t eligible for an invite last year.

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19 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

I didn’t say anything about how they look playing football.  Thats not what this list is.  

Not even talking about football, the way they run/go through drills/movement skills makes them very different athletes.

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48 minutes ago, slats said:

Most mocks I saw had him going much higher, and I was surprised at a number of the guys who went before him. I don't know if I'd say those other guys were, "better," or just personal preferences. Aiyuk going in the first round really surprised me - and to a really good front office in the 49ers. Did not see Pittman, Claypool, or Van Jefferson going before him, either. 

/shrug

I honestly don't think it's worth debate at this point.  We got Mims, we can all agree we hope Mims is a great #1 WR.  

48 minutes ago, slats said:

Really glad he fell, though, he was my guy. Love his size and top shelf athleticism. He should be a Day One starter. I mean, he'd be replacing Robbie Anderson, who wasn't exactly known as a route tree savant. I don't think they'll have a tough time getting him on the field. 

As you no doubt recall, I was no fan of Anderson, and always felt he was a limited, one-trick-pony of a WR, a good-to-have #3, a horrible guy to be your #1.  I most certainly hope Mims is a more legitimate #1 WR.  We'll see, and I'm looking forward to it.

48 minutes ago, slats said:

That said, I'd've taken another one in the next few picks, and definitely at least one more time in the draft. I guess they like Perriman, Doctson, and Vyncint Smith. 

Personally, I think we remain amongst the worst and least talented WR groups in the NFL.  But we'll just have to see.  Douglas deserves a chance to build his team his way for a couple of years, this is his first real offseason and draft.  I'll be more comfortable evaluating him this forthcoming season, when we see how a Douglas team works on the field.  

Sorry, I know you're used to me being much more combative, but I just don't see a cause today.  I think it was as good a draft as we could have hoped for, given how it fell.  That's good enough for today.

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think the big knock is that he's not a very good route runner and at Baylor he wasn't asked to run the whole route tree -- he basically ran a lot of "one cut" routes that didn't require much finesse, gos, posts, slants, etc. So while he has all of the physical tools you need to be great he's still relatively raw and a little bit of a project. I wouldn't be shocked if he took a little time to develop, I wouldn't expect a superstar out of the gate.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he had some other warts, maybe personality based, because it's pretty shocking he made it to 59. He easily could have been a first rounder with his production and athletic profile so there's probably a little more to the story.

That said, love his upside, could easily contend to be the best receiver in this draft if he works hard.

Yeah if he was the best WR in this class, or one of them why didn’t Matt Rhule take a swing at him?

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6 minutes ago, derp said:

Yes I’m aware Aiyuk was a JUCO. You’re talking about Mims returning to college after his junior year at a major college program. Aiyuk did as well.

And that’s not quite how it works. The scouting combine invites are extended to players who entered the draft. Mims never entered the draft. Wasn’t eligible for an invite last year.

Aiyuk flunked high school, he had to stay until senior year to get enough D1 experience.

Mims spent 4 years in D1. Wasn't he draft-eligible in junior year? i believe the rule is 3 years out of high school for eligibility.

either way, most good prospects always forego senior year. they stay only when they don't get a favorable evaluation from the advisory committee.

there are exceptions, like Travis etienne, who didn't declare for the 2020 draft and stayed back for a senior year. but he was invited to the combine a year earlier https://rubbingtherock.com/2019/03/05/clemson-football-travis-etienne-isaiah-simmons-attended-nfl-combine/

 

 

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I wanted Mims over all the 2nd tier guys . If we went OT at 11. He has zero limitations physically he is just as quick as he is fast and his catch radius is ridiculous. He can make plays on all 3 levels. I wish he was better after the catch but nobody’s perfect .  if he gets coached up right you could have beast on your hands. 

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Personally, I think we remain amongst the worst and least talented WR groups in the NFL.  But we'll just have to see.  Douglas deserves a chance to build his team his way for a couple of years, this is his first real offseason and draft.  I'll be more comfortable evaluating him this forthcoming season, when we see how a Douglas team works on the field.  

Sorry, I know you're used to me being much more combative, but I just don't see a cause today.  I think it was as good a draft as we could have hoped for, given how it fell.  That's good enough for today.

Lol, I'll take it. 

I'm also concerned about the WR corps and, as much as I liked Mims, I would've tried to hit the position again by the fourth round. Perriman's a wild card. I don't think he's his last four games, but maybe he is just a late bloomer and will be productive at this stage. Have to hope, as I think the Jets will be leaning on them. 

As for how the WRs came off the board, I really do think that it was a great WR class, and everyone had different grades on them. I really liked Ruggs, for instance, and wouldn't've hesitated to make him the first WR taken (as he was) but most of the "experts," had Jeudy and Lamb ahead of him. I think the covid situation affected grades across the league this year. In a normal year, these scouts are all together talking at pro days and the like and probably going out for drinks afterwards and a kind of mob mentality takes form as they compare notes and guys get placed in a general order. This year, there was no consensus on the OTs or WRs, and I think everyone doing their evaluations from their homes played a big role in that. 

Not a debate, just an opinion/theory/observation. 

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1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

That is comforting what about his route running that was the other thing they nailed him for im assuming that is something that can be fixed atleast to an extent.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

His route running?  That’s what coaches are for.  Considering the Jets WR coaches son was regarded as the 2nd or at worst 3rd best WR in the draft in terms of route running (behind Jeudy) I’m confident Mim’s will improve. 

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5 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Aiyuk flunked high school, he had to stay until senior year to get enough D1 experience.

Mims spent 4 years in D1. Wasn't he draft-eligible in junior year? i believe the rule is 3 years out of high school for eligibility.

either way, most good prospects always forego senior year. they stay only when they don't get a favorable evaluation from the advisory committee.

there are exceptions, like Travis etienne, who didn't declare for the 2020 draft and stayed back for a senior year. but he was invited to the combine a year earlier https://rubbingtherock.com/2019/03/05/clemson-football-travis-etienne-isaiah-simmons-attended-nfl-combine/

 

 

Guys sometimes leave after a year in D1. Not a requirement you stay two years. As you said, need to be three years removed from high school. You brought up Aiyuk as an example of guys leaving early at the outset of this - which he did not. He left as a senior. Because he didn’t break out until his senior year. Which is exactly the kind of prospect NFL teams should be afraid of. Mims broke out as a sophomore. That’s a good thing. That was my point. Not sure why we’re getting in the weeds here.

Mims was draft eligible after his junior year. Often, prospects base whether or not they want to return to school on if they think they’ll get drafted higher the next year. Some, like Etienne, just want to go back to school. Mims played his junior year with a broken hand. Had a lot of drops. It’s reasonable to think he wanted to play another year with a healthy hand and show the drops were an anomaly due to the healthy hand and that’s why he returned to school. Maybe that’s not why - but he almost certainly would have been drafted last year. Not like he came back because he’d never produced in college.

Etienne and Simmons attended the 2019 combine as part of a NCAA program, not NFL. Different combine invite. 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Most mocks I saw had him going much higher, and I was surprised at a number of the guys who went before him. I don't know if I'd say those other guys were, "better," or just personal preferences. Aiyuk going in the first round really surprised me - and to a really good front office in the 49ers. Did not see Pittman, Claypool, or Van Jefferson going before him, either. 

Really glad he fell, though, he was my guy. Love his size and top shelf athleticism. He should be a Day One starter. I mean, he'd be replacing Robbie Anderson, who wasn't exactly known as a route tree savant. I don't think they'll have a tough time getting him on the field. 

That said, I'd've taken another one in the next few picks, and definitely at least one more time in the draft. I guess they like Perriman, Doctson, and Vyncint Smith. 

I doubt Doctson and Smith both make the team. Perriman, Crowder, and Mims are obvious locks. Berrios makes it as the backup to Crowder (similar play style) and for special teams value. That's 4. Doctson and Smith (whose best attribute, deep speed, is now covered by two guys ahead of him) are likely fighting with the UDFAs (and any late signed FAs) for the last WR spot

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So nico thinks we now have an elite WR to go with our elite QB

Hope he's right, it would be answering 25+ years worth of wishes.

In 2008 we had an explosive offense for 1/2 a season, in 1998 for 3/4. Before that it was probably 1986 and that only last 3/4 a season as well.

The long standing tradition of offensive ineptitude with the franchise is remarkable

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Watching his tape i liked his route running especially his releases, don't think he's great against off coverage he likes to bruise guys who try to press bom and trives most against Man coverage, he's the type of guy who makes the Impossible catch and drop a easy one right after, he doesn't give you yac don't know If that is because off the Baylor scheme but he sure have the speed to break a big one. Overall he still need to polish his route running against zone and off coverage and fix his drop problem with that i don't ser why he can't be a 1000 yrd reciever.

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1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

Yeah if he was the best WR in this class, or one of them why didn’t Matt Rhule take a swing at him?

Well, I think the answer there is that the Panthers had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year so they used all their premium picks on defense -- I think they went DL, DL, CB, CB with their first four picks. I'm not sure Rhule not drafting Mims means he didn't like him, especially since they signed Robby in free agency.

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5 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Doesn’t YAC have something to do with routes you run and how the QB hits you in stride?   The videos show him making acrobatic catches along the borders and in the end zone.   Not a lot of crossing routes and screen passes.

Bro, you need to change your username to Gase Movement. Or Gas Movement. 

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2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

I doubt Doctson and Smith both make the team. Perriman, Crowder, and Mims are obvious locks. Berrios makes it as the backup to Crowder (similar play style) and for special teams value. That's 4. Doctson and Smith (whose best attribute, deep speed, is now covered by two guys ahead of him) are likely fighting with the UDFAs (and any late signed FAs) for the last WR spot

Our new safety is also a return guy   He may make Berrios dispensible if someone else shines.   Also think theyd keep 6 WRs if they felt any of 4-6 were more than JAGs.   The udfa qb/wr (Smith?) that tore his acl last year may also be in the mix for wr/ kr

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1 minute ago, JetFan20 said:

Sam Monson from PFF had Denzel Mims as one of his biggest loser for getting drafted by the Jets (Bad Qb and Bad Coach) 

 

Sam Monson is a f*cking moron who used to argue that Tarvaris Jackson and Troy Williamson were two of the most promising players in the NFL.

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2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Sam Monson is a f*cking moron who used to argue that Tarvaris Jackson and Troy Williamson were two of the most promising players in the NFL.

I like PFF for certain aspects, but they are pretty arrogant (and biased). 

If Mims has any sort of confidence in himself he’s probably salivating at the idea of coming here and immediately being the #1 target. 

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