Maybe James Morgan wasn't a crazy pick?

[32EBoozer]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

BB said today that the Pats intended to take a QB, but the board didn’t fall into place. I’m convinced the Jets too the QB the Pats intended to take.

Maybe that’s why he wasn’t in the kitchen when NFLN went live. Probably kicking the dog when Morgan got taken.

[Melly-Mel]

Competition is good, chances are he wont be great, but never say never.  Im ok with the pick.  If he becomes a formidable back up, or a trade for higher pick later on its a win,  win.  

[Ben Had]

I think the jets got a steal with this guy. I still think he will wind up being the 3rd best QB in this draft.

[mphtrilogy]

16 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

BB said today that the Pats intended to take a QB, but the board didn’t fall into place. I’m convinced the Jets too the QB the Pats intended to take.

with the Pats pick on the trade back...

[ChuckkieB]

I didn't feel we needed to draft a rookie QB, and certainly not in the 4th round, but if this was the only way to appease the football Gods in order to block the Patriots from drafting their next late round HOF QB, then sign me up!!

[More Cowbell]

16 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

BB said today that the Pats intended to take a QB, but the board didn’t fall into place. I’m convinced the Jets too the QB the Pats intended to take.

I never thought of this when that pick was made. Hopefully the Pats don't  suck so much that they have a shot a Lawrence but he is a likely #1 overall so probably  not. 

[CTJetsFan]

16 minutes ago, Ben Had said:

I think the jets got a steal with this guy. I still think he will wind up being the 3rd best QB in this draft.

In order for that evaluation to be possible, it would require him to play for an extended period meaning either a) Sam was a bust or b) Sam sustained a substantial injury.

I don't think any of us want either of those things to happen in order to find out how good Morgan might be.

[Ghost420]

 

1 minute ago, CTJetsFan said:

In order for that evaluation to be possible, it would require him to play for an extended period meaning either a) Sam was a bust or b) Sam sustained a substantial injury.

I don't think any of us want either of those things to happen in order to find out how good Morgan might be.

Unless he comes in and kills it. Then it's Sam Darnold who?

[LIJetsFan]

1 minute ago, CTJetsFan said:

In order for that evaluation to be possible, it would require him to play for an extended period meaning either a) Sam was a bust or b) Sam sustained a substantial injury.

I don't think any of us want either of those things to happen in order to find out how good Morgan might be.

How about the Jets are so far ahead in the 4th quarter that they bring Morgan in to "protect" Sam.  There, a 3rd scenario. 

[CTJetsFan]

6 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

How about the Jets are so far ahead in the 4th quarter that they bring Morgan in to "protect" Sam.  There, a 3rd scenario. 

I'd be ok with that ?

[Smashmouth]

This is not crazy in the least. First off we do not have a legit number 2 QB. Second of all the Jets should have been doing things just like this in the past like when Penny got hurt like when Sanchez was proving not to be the guy ..... Also Darnold has shown us flashes but he has not shown consistency probably because his surrounding cast sucks ass but keep in mind this team never was big on skill players (last 10 years plus) and we said that about Sanchez as well. What if Darnold is what we have seen and still has issues with mechanics and some bad decisions ? I think this is a really good call and from what we have seen and heard this guy can really throw the football the big "what if " Sam Darnold = Drew Bledsoe and Morgan is Brady ... yeah yeah I know that's a crazy ass long shot but that's exactly why you pick this guy.

[CanadaSteve]

17 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Morgan is a very raw prospect with poor mechanics. Arm talent is there, but 4th round was way too high to take him. I also would not be comfortable with him backing up Darnold. If Morgan had to play Jets would be toast, so they need to add a veteran backup QB.

Teams will be carrying 3 QB's now, so he will probably be third string....unless he goes lights out in pre-season.  Which I doubt.

In the NFL, you can never have enough QB's.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

pats couldn't have wanted him that bad if they drafted 5 guys before him.

Hey I am glad people are happy and enthusiastic to have him but 'accuracy' did not jump out in his college stats.  I'd like someone to tell me why this guy is a vastly better prospect than Davis Webb or Mike White, both big guys with big arms that were or are here.

We could have made better use of that pick imo. 

Only time will tell.

At first glance, just looking at the completion percentage alone, it does seem that way. 

Looking a little deeper, he didn't throw to his backs a lot, and those ultra-high percentage attempts really boost one's aggregate percentage. 

Rushing & Receiving Table

		Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Rk	Player	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec ▼	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
1	Shermar Thornton					51	668	13.1	5	51	668	13.1	5
2	Tony Gaiter IV					50	647	12.9	4	50	647	12.9	4
3	Austin Maloney					33	639	19.4	2	33	639	19.4	2
4	Maurice Alexander	9	42	4.7	0	25	298	11.9	1	34	340	10.0	1
5	Sterling Palmer					22	205	9.3	0	22	205	9.3	0
6	Napoleon Maxwell	128	675	5.3	9	13	94	7.2	0	141	769	5.5	9
7	Anthony Jones	187	867	4.6	9	10	123	12.3	2	197	990	5.0	11
8	D'Vonte Price	50	249	5.0	0	10	49	4.9	0	60	298	5.0	0
9	Kamareon Williams					3	27	9.0	0	3	27	9.0	0
10	Darrius Scott					3	0	0.0	0	3	0	0.0	0
11	Cadarius Gaskin					2	17	8.5	0	2	17	8.5	0
12	David O'Meara					1	12	12.0	0	1	12	12.0	0

 

So the 3 in red are his backs. Like most, I didn't see one FIU snap all year and don't know what Alexander really is - maybe a 5'9/170 version of Brad Smith, as he's listed as a QB/WR - but just from that position title (and his stature) it doesn't seem he typically lined up behind Morgan on plays where passes went his way. 

So without knowing attempts from SR, and just going by completions, it's 33 to his backs and 164 to his WRs. Plus another 26 to his TEs but it's hard to know how wide open they typically are just by YPR (just because we know they're shorter passes doesn't mean they're wide open like a back in the flat with no one within 3-5 yards of him). 

So given the receiving:rushing ratio for each of his 3 backs - more than 10:1 - without taking far more time to look at a lot of film it suggests when he's passing it's empty backfield a lot (my guess is almost always shotgun at that, but I really don't know), removing an even higher number of high percentage outlet tosses when his downfield targets are all covered. 

Beyond that one would have to look at whole-game film -- not only to see if my guess is right, but also to see the ball placement on those attempts he did throw, completed or not. How many of those incomplete passes were thrown away, how many were dropped, how many looked like (from body language) the QB thought his target would go another way, or to your guess yeah how many did he just not throw it accurately (whether ultimately completed or not, how was his placement)?

[southparkcpa]

17 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Morgan is a very raw prospect with poor mechanics. Arm talent is there, but 4th round was way too high to take him. I also would not be comfortable with him backing up Darnold. If Morgan had to play Jets would be toast, so they need to add a veteran backup QB.

He's no Hackenberg............?

 

[rangerous]

the jets need a viable back up qb.  no idea if this morgan guy will work out but stranger things have happened.  all he has to do is outplay fales.  why morgan?  there's more than just completion percentage.  it's making the right play even if it ultimately fails.

[Smashmouth]

17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

pats couldn't have wanted him that bad if they drafted 5 guys before him.

Hey I am glad people are happy and enthusiastic to have him but 'accuracy' did not jump out in his college stats.  I'd like someone to tell me why this guy is a vastly better prospect than Davis Webb or Mike White, both big guys with big arms that were or are here.

We could have made better use of that pick imo. 

Only time will tell.

Yeah but half the battle is knowing when to draft a guy. if this guy was a 4th round grade I doubt the Pats would have reached for him in the 2nd or 3rd after all they picked Brady in round 6..... Sure Brady could have been pure 100 % luck, which I think it was, but you don't reach for a player too far because that's bad drafting strategy and lord knows the Jets have been bad drafters for quite a while so we should know this more than most

[choon328]

When you're about to pay your QB $25-$30 million per year you can't have an expensive backup. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Would’ve liked it more in the 5th or 6th round but I can’t complain. 
After seeing all those rookies and backups step in last year and be somewhat successful, im fine with taking a shot on one. 

[ghost_in_pads02]

BB never made reference to wanting him..and I am sure if he did he would of went ahead and drafted him.

[derp]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

At first glance, just looking at the completion percentage alone, it does seem that way. 

Looking a little deeper, he didn't throw to his backs a lot, and those ultra-high percentage attempts really boost one's aggregate percentage. 

Rushing & Receiving Table

		Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Rk	Player	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec ▼	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
1	Shermar Thornton					51	668	13.1	5	51	668	13.1	5
2	Tony Gaiter IV					50	647	12.9	4	50	647	12.9	4
3	Austin Maloney					33	639	19.4	2	33	639	19.4	2
4	Maurice Alexander	9	42	4.7	0	25	298	11.9	1	34	340	10.0	1
5	Sterling Palmer					22	205	9.3	0	22	205	9.3	0
6	Napoleon Maxwell	128	675	5.3	9	13	94	7.2	0	141	769	5.5	9
7	Anthony Jones	187	867	4.6	9	10	123	12.3	2	197	990	5.0	11
8	D'Vonte Price	50	249	5.0	0	10	49	4.9	0	60	298	5.0	0
9	Kamareon Williams					3	27	9.0	0	3	27	9.0	0
10	Darrius Scott					3	0	0.0	0	3	0	0.0	0
11	Cadarius Gaskin					2	17	8.5	0	2	17	8.5	0
12	David O'Meara					1	12	12.0	0	1	12	12.0	0

 

So the 3 in red are his backs. Like most, I didn't see one FIU snap all year and don't know what Alexander really is - maybe a 5'9/170 version of Brad Smith, as he's listed as a QB/WR - but just from that position title (and his stature) it doesn't seem he typically lined up behind Morgan on plays where passes went his way. 

So without knowing attempts from SR, and just going by completions, it's 33 to his backs and 164 to his WRs. Plus another 26 to his TEs but it's hard to know how wide open they typically are just by YPR (just because we know they're shorter passes doesn't mean they're wide open like a back in the flat with no one within 3-5 yards of him). 

So given the receiving:rushing ratio for each of his 3 backs - more than 10:1 - without taking far more time to look at a lot of film it suggests when he's passing it's empty backfield a lot (my guess is almost always shotgun at that, but I really don't know), removing an even higher number of high percentage outlet tosses when his downfield targets are all covered. 

Beyond that one would have to look at whole-game film -- not only to see if my guess is right, but also to see the ball placement on those attempts he did throw, completed or not. How many of those incomplete passes were thrown away, how many were dropped, how many looked like (from body language) the QB thought his target would go another way, or to your guess yeah how many did he just not throw it accurately (whether ultimately completed or not, how was his placement)?

I didn’t dig enough to find concrete numbers - but most places you look indicate a) drops were a major issue for FIU WR’s last year and b) some of that falls on Morgan not taking heat off the ball.

No issue rolling the dice on a competitive, reasonably smart dude with a live arm who saw a step back in production while playing with a leg injury. I thought that backup QB was a need and I’m glad it got addressed. Helps if there are more injuries, the second half of preseason games will be interesting, and it’s possible they flip him for a pick. I’d guess they really liked him and probably had him sixth on their board - possibly fifth. Can’t see how Eason would’ve been ahead, no clue how they viewed Hurts. And probably was a big drop off after him too.

Did think it was interesting Fromm fell so far. Must have had teams thinking he didn’t meet thresholds.

Like that the Jets took a gunslinger to back up Darnold. Easier to not have to completely change things up for the backup. And if he’s hurt hopefully you don’t have the team go into that complete shell. Also clear with Perriman, Mims, and taking a quarterback with an arm that the Jets are going to try to take shots downfield to spread the field. I think that’s important.

[flgreen]

Taking a strong armed QB in the 4rd or later is never a mistake. 

[Smashmouth]

8 minutes ago, derp said:

I didn’t dig enough to find concrete numbers - but most places you look indicate a) drops were a major issue for FIU WR’s last year and b) some of that falls on Morgan not taking heat off the ball.

No issue rolling the dice on a competitive, reasonably smart dude with a live arm who saw a step back in production while playing with a leg injury. I thought that backup QB was a need and I’m glad it got addressed. Helps if there are more injuries, the second half of preseason games will be interesting, and it’s possible they flip him for a pick. I’d guess they really liked him and probably had him sixth on their board - possibly fifth. Can’t see how Eason would’ve been ahead, no clue how they viewed Hurts. And probably was a big drop off after him too.

Did think it was interesting Fromm fell so far. Must have had teams thinking he didn’t meet thresholds.

Like that the Jets took a gunslinger to back up Darnold. Easier to not have to completely change things up for the backup. And if he’s hurt hopefully you don’t have the team go into that complete shell. Also clear with Perriman, Mims, and taking a quarterback with an arm that the Jets are going to try to take shots downfield to spread the field. I think that’s important.

Maybe but in Simms scouting report he said the guy has great touch as well

[Savage69]

Ken O'Brien never won a playoff game but his backup 11th rd pick Pat Ryan did..

[Jets1958]

34 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

BB never made reference to wanting him..and I am sure if he did he would of went ahead and drafted him.

um... do you really think he would have telegraphed the pick? BB? Are you sure we are talking about the same NE coach?

[slats]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

I think this is a really good call and from what we have seen and heard this guy can really throw the football the big "what if " Sam Darnold = Drew Bledsoe and Morgan is Brady ... yeah yeah I know that's a crazy ass long shot but that's exactly why you pick this guy.

I'm just hoping that it's not Sam Darnold = Richard Todd and Morgan is Robinson. Although I certainly wouldn't mind getting first and second round picks for Morgan down the road. 

50 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

if this guy was a 4th round grade I doubt the Pats would have reached for him in the 2nd or 3rd after all they picked Brady in round 6.....

They took Garoppolo in the second round when we were all dreaming of taking him in the third, so who knows? I think Belichick is probably planning to field an offense without a QB at all this year just to prove how unimportant Brady really was in the whole scheme of things. 

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

I'm just hoping that it's not Sam Darnold = Richard Todd and Morgan is Robinson. Although I certainly wouldn't mind getting first and second round picks for Morgan down the road. 

They took Garoppolo in the second round when we were all dreaming of taking him in the third, so who knows? I think Belichick is probably planning to field an offense without a QB at all this year just to prove how unimportant Brady really was in the whole scheme of things. 

true but there was talk of Garropolo going in round 1 as well

and the ToDD Robinson please no lol

[Sperm Edwards]

49 minutes ago, derp said:

I didn’t dig enough to find concrete numbers - but most places you look indicate a) drops were a major issue for FIU WR’s last year and b) some of that falls on Morgan not taking heat off the ball.

No issue rolling the dice on a competitive, reasonably smart dude with a live arm who saw a step back in production while playing with a leg injury. I thought that backup QB was a need and I’m glad it got addressed. Helps if there are more injuries, the second half of preseason games will be interesting, and it’s possible they flip him for a pick. I’d guess they really liked him and probably had him sixth on their board - possibly fifth. Can’t see how Eason would’ve been ahead, no clue how they viewed Hurts. And probably was a big drop off after him too.

Did think it was interesting Fromm fell so far. Must have had teams thinking he didn’t meet thresholds.

Like that the Jets took a gunslinger to back up Darnold. Easier to not have to completely change things up for the backup. And if he’s hurt hopefully you don’t have the team go into that complete shell. Also clear with Perriman, Mims, and taking a quarterback with an arm that the Jets are going to try to take shots downfield to spread the field. I think that’s important.

Agree it's hard to find concrete numbers on an FIU QB. Are that many drops really on Morgan not taking heat off? Hard to say without watching, because often taking heat off it is the difference between a completion and a deflection, or a completion + tackled vs completion + more yac. 

You could be right, but like I said, you'd just have to watch to get around such guesses (guesses I did as well). But I don't have the time to watch every game of his myself (if they're even available), unless some nice person clipped out all the commercials, huddles, timeouts, and FIU defense & specials. Then you're talking about what, ~5 min per game? I'd watch that .

[Warfish]

If/when Sam missed time, we still want to win games.

If Sam never becomes what we want him to be, we need an insurance policy.

Drafting a backup QB is smart management.  Recycled old veterans can only do so much, and they tend to be pricey.

I'm 100% a QB being picked late as happened.  

[jetstream23]

18 hours ago, Jets723 said:

My issue was the spot not the player.  Personally I rather have a vet backup for now 

I think the veteran backup becomes more important when the Jets are truly competing for deep playoff runs.  Not sure we're quite there yet.  I'm perfectly comfortable developing James Morgan for 12-18 months.  If the Jets look improved, finish with 9 wins and look to be a 2021 challenger for the AFC East title then I think Jets brass can assess whether Morgan is a guy who would have a chance to win games if called into action.  If not, they add a 3rd veteran QB next Spring.

[bitonti]

19 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

BB said today that the Pats intended to take a QB, but the board didn’t fall into place. I’m convinced the Jets too the QB the Pats intended to take.

if this is true taking him and stowing on the bench is a double win 

F the Pats 

[bitonti]

29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If/when Sam missed time, we still want to win games.

If Sam never becomes what we want him to be, we need an insurance policy.

Drafting a backup QB is smart management.  Recycled old veterans can only do so much, and they tend to be pricey.

I'm 100% a QB being picked late as happened.  

truth 

also this team has for a long time CORONATED their QB1 for too many years, simply giving the dude the job

they never let the QB's compete in a fair manner.

Not saying Morgan has a chance to win this job but there will at least be some semblance of competition in Training camp  

they invested a 4th rd pick in Morgan, he's not going to be cut 

at the very least Sam Darnold had to have noticed. Competition brings out the best in everyone. 

[Adoni Beast]

19 hours ago, Maxman said:

I get that people hate Gase but:

1. If the offensive staff, along with Joe Douglas, likes this kid I am on board.

2. If the Patriots wanted him this move is even more brilliant.

I read somewhere that Buffalo was going to take him, but we did first. So they went with Fromm.

[JetBlue]

2 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

In order for that evaluation to be possible, it would require him to play for an extended period meaning either a) Sam was a bust or b) Sam sustained a substantial injury.

I don't think any of us want either of those things to happen in order to find out how good Morgan might be.

This is my concern with the pick.   That and the caliber of players still on the board that could help the team NOW and in the future.  I will defer to JD but still not sold on this being the best move.    It's funny though because he is the prototypical Pats type quarterback.  Big, strong armed pocket passer.   It will be interesting to see his development, such as it is, over the next few years.   I will be rooting for him...... to stay glued to the bench lol.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

If you like a guy, you take him regardless of the value. You're not the only team capable of reaching for a QB, and you have no idea if he will be there at a later pick. It's not like we drafted a guy with a sixth round grade in the second round or anything. 

[viffer]

11 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

This is my concern with the pick.   That and the caliber of players still on the board that could help the team NOW and in the future.  I will defer to JD but still not sold on this being the best move.

I agree. A developmental QB is not going to get any first team reps or any game experience, so we will likely never know how good he is/could be. But more important, this was a crazy pick in the 4rth round. In the deepest wide receiver draft in decades, we got ONE receiver. So now we have a total of TWO. Don't tell me about Perriman, Doctson, or anyone else. We have one proven receiver, and one rookie from a school known for not producing quality NFL receivers (the guy is basically another Robby Andersen; can run a go route and not much else).

This pick should have been on a wide receiver, if not one of the earlier picks. I was a big JD defender before the draft, but I think he blew it. But time will tell. Hopefully I'm wrong (been waiting 50 years for a super bowl championship, don't know if I'll live long enough to see one...).