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Maybe James Morgan wasn't a crazy pick?


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31 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

the facts are this. He's played for 2 years and not only has he been inconsistent, he's also been injury prone somewhat.

Those are not the facts. I’ll give you inconsistent, but he’s not injury prone. At all. His “injury,” in his rookie year was essentially a face-saving name for a much needed time-out/benching. He missed time in his second year with mono (hardly an injury!), then survived and even somewhat thrived running for his life behind one of the worst OLs in the league. 

And also, Gase and Douglas both came to this godforsaken franchise because they believe Darnold is a franchise QB just waiting to emerge from his cocoon. 

Morgan is a cheap backup option they’re probably already hoping to flip for picks in the next couple of years. Potential Jets starter is way down on the list of what they hope/expect him to bring. 

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47 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

This.

Face it everyone, this management and head coach are not married to Darnold. Yes, he has lots of promise and we all hope that he becomes our FQB.

the facts are this. He's played for 2 years and not only has he been inconsistent, he's also been injury prone somewhat.

Management did the responsible thing. They chose a guy they think can be not only a long term clip board holder, but also the guy that has the physical and mental skill set to play QB in the NFL when called upon to do so.

 

 

 

and that is what a professional GM is supposed to do, even if his QB is named Aaron Rodgers

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Morgan says he patterns his game after Brett Favre, and the Pats were interested in him...

Not such a bad thing...

This guy is big, strong, and can really throw it...

Not such a bad thing...

Just like one of these later round WR's that could have been selected instead of him, Morgan could turn out to be "a diamond in the rough" as well...

Not such a bad thing...

Darnold has won nothing so far, and Morgan may provide another fresh possibility, no matter how small, in that elusive search to get on a magical carpet ride...

Not such a bad thing...

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11 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

and that is what a professional GM is supposed to do, even if his QB is named Aaron Rodgers

The Packers drafted a QB in the first round and I’m pretty sure Wisconsin is still on fire. 

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James Morgan had a lot of buzz in the scouting community which the media got a hold of really late in the pre-draft cycle.  This was mostly due to the unusual circumstances but he was making the climb similar to that of other small school QB prospects.  He was getting talked up during the East-West Shrine game and at the combine as a sleeper / player to watch.

As others have mentioned Darnold has had a history of injuries.  In his junior year of high school, he sat out due to a foot injury.  In the NFL, he has missed time due to an ankle/foot injury and mono.  He has lost a toe nail, has had bruised ribs, thumb surgery and knee problems.  Investing in a backup is not a bad idea.

James Morgan also had a knee injury that plagued him all last year.  You could see the difference in his 2018 tape vs 2019 tape.  This was a big reason for the significant drop off in accuracy.

They got a developmental QB with the potential to become a starter in the NFL.  He has talents that translates well to the pro game.  Given some time he could be a very valuable asset for the Jets.

Shrine Buzz:

Combine Buzz:

Pre-draft:

Scouting:

 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I didn't ask for "all the receivers".

I asked who the "STUD" was as you see it.

These guys were all rated ~20 and lower in this class.

So who is the STUD, and why did the rest of the NFL pass on them for four rounds?  

OMG. You flourish in this game. All he meant was that there were a lot of good prospects at a position of need that we passed on. He used the term "stud". But as you already know, he really didnt mean stud he meant good solid picks. 

All this to try to discredit him in a debate. Its exhausting

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On 4/26/2020 at 4:08 PM, Larz said:

Who said it was crazy?

we don’t need another washed up journeyman backup 

develop a young guy and maybe even trade him for a “profit “
 

 

good point.  the jets wouldn't have used a 4th round pick unless they saw something really good.  it's not like mac picking petty because he heard footsteps.

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1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

OMG. You flourish in this game. All he meant was that there were a lot of good prospects at a position of need that we passed on. He used the term "stud". But as you already know, he really didnt mean stud he meant good solid picks. 

All this to try to discredit him in a debate. Its exhausting

Pretty sure he can speak for himself.

If folks want to be butthurt over the pick, so be it, lol.

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Most of the WRs that were available around the Morgan pick the were missing the speed and explosiveness the Jets were looking for in the wide receivers.   Also, some of those guys projected as slot receivers and Crowder seems to have that locked up.  Mims can fulfill the x receiver role and if they need to find a veteran backup they can bring in Demaryius again but they may want to see if Enunwa will be healthy.  On the opposite side, they have Perriman, Doctson and Vyncint Smith has showed flashes.  The z receiver needs to have the deep speed, the suddenness to break off routes and the ability to run routes underneath; all things that Doctson, Perriman and Smith have shown.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

The Packers drafted a QB in the first round and I’m pretty sure Wisconsin is still on fire. 

exactly 🎖️ glad we agree

 

\good move by GB GM, and Douglas,,just like it was good when GB drafted aaron when favre there, lamar drafted even with flacco starter (no one knew he would get hurt in lamar rookie year)

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4 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

exactly 🎖️ glad we agree

Lol! It’s hilarious that you and @jgb have the exact same online deflection/debate style. I guess that’s on you. Love to see you two guys go at it when you disagree. :) 

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On 4/27/2020 at 12:44 PM, Warfish said:

I didn't ask for "all the receivers".

I asked who the "STUD" was as you see it.

These guys were all rated ~20 and lower in this class.

So who is the STUD, and why did the rest of the NFL pass on them for four rounds?  

Its a 4th round pick. The guy is saying he thinks we should’ve taken a WR who would’ve almost certainly gotten on the field and helped the team more than a 3rd string project QB. He even gave you a list of the ones available.

You keep asking who the “stud” is he would’ve taken... how many stud anything’s were there in the 4th round? Are you saying this QB is a stud?

Drafting a position of need, and yeah, we need WRs, should take priority right now for the Jets over drafting some QB from Whatzamattah U in the hope he develops into a clip board holder down the road.

 

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11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Drafting a position of need, and yeah, we need WRs, should take priority right now for the Jets over drafting some QB from Whatzamattah U in the hope he develops into a clip board holder down the road.

 

I'm sure a lot of Chargers fans thought in a similar fashion when they took Drew Brees in the 2nd round of the 2001 draft.  After all, they already had Doug Flutie as their starting QB at the time.

I have little doubt that Redskins fans were confused and critical when they took Kirk Cousins in the 4th round of the same draft they took RGIII.

I'm sure some Seahawks fans thought that when they took Russell Wilson in the 3rd round of the 2012 draft when they'd already spent big money on Matt Flynn.

I'll bet there were a few Eagles fans not too happy when they burned a 3rd round pick on Nick Foles in 2012.  After all, the Eagles already had Michael Vick and Trent Edwards.

I'm sure some Patriots fans were against taking Jimmy Garoppolo late in the 2nd round in 2014.  Brady had a lot of years left in the tank, after all, and this Jimmy kid was an unproven small school prospect.

My guess is Pats fans were upset once again 2 years later when they took Jacoby Brissett in the 3rd round.

I'll guarantee some Cowboys fans weren't happy when the Cowboys burned a 4th rounder on Dak Prescott.  They already had Tony Romo as their franchise QB.  

And while I doubt there was any anger over this pick, the Jaguars snagging Gardner Minshew in the 6th round of the '19 draft worked out pretty well.

 

Sure, these are only a few instances where a mid-round QB had that kind of upside.  But even if you end up with a Colt McCoy type, a career backup/spot starter, it's a worthwhile pick that saves you a some significant money in the long run.  

And I'm surprised you of all people are wringing your hands over a QB pick, given your very low level of optimism regarding Sam Darnold.  And it's not like Morgan was some no-named prospect.   He was somewhere in the range of QB5-QB10 on most sites, and rumor had it that the Patriots wanted Morgan in Round 5. 

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Again, my only issue with the Morgan pick, is that I would have greatly preferred waiting until the 5th round. 

The dream scenario in any draft is for all guys taken in the first 4 rounds to contribute meaningfully in year 1 and the chances of this guy doing that are extremely low. 

Having said that, I also believe in stock-piling young QBs, and if Douglas really likes this guy, I'm intrigued. You just never know . . . 

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26 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Again, my only issue with the Morgan pick, is that I would have greatly preferred waiting until the 5th round. 

I did too, until the rumor came out that the Pats wanted Morgan in Rd 5.  Even if that was just smoke, it was worth it to grab him a round early if we liked him that much.  

Grabbing a steal in Bryce Hall in Rd 5 made it all the more worth it.  

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11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

You keep asking who the “stud” is he would’ve taken... how many stud anything’s were there in the 4th round? Are you saying this QB is a stud?

I didn't use the word "STUD", nor did I put it in all caps. 

He did. 

When asked who the STUD we missed out on was, he had no real factual reply. 

Because there clearly were no clear-cut STUDS available by that point, only the usual third-tier mid-round prospects a half step above the sea of UDFA prospects.  i.e. Ardarius Stewarts and Chad Hansons type mid-rounders. 

Douglas instead chose to go with a few UDFA instead.  Maybe one will be the next Robby Anderson or Wayne Chrebet, who knows.

Truth is, these mid-round "STUDS" were in reality guys unlikely to see the field for us outside of special teams in 2020, or possibly ever, same as most late round and UDFA's WR's, no matter how HYPE Jets Fans get for them in .  

Could Douglas have missed?  Absolutely.  One mid/late round WR could become a stud down the road, who knows.  Our QB could be gone in a year.  Only time will tell. 

Till then I'm going to side with Douglas, especially knowing our backup QB was a talentless void behind a time-missing Darnold last year and the year before.

So today, I'm just not going to weep over Douglas choosing a backup QB (Morgan) over the 17th selected WR (Davis, UFC) or the 18th selected WR (Gandy-Golden) when we in theiry may have got the etc.

Did I want more WR talent, yes.  Had I run the draft, we today have Jeudy (not Beckton on the OL or Mims at WR) as our #1 WR, and a different O-lineman picked later.  Maybe I will be proven wrong too.  Like I said, time will tell.

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Drafting a position of need, and yeah, we need WRs, should take priority right now for the Jets over drafting some QB from Whatzamattah U in the hope he develops into a clip board holder down the road.

Mr. Douglas didn't agree with you or the other poster. 

Clearly, he didn't see the value in those mid or late round WR prospects and did see a need for a backup QB and other things.

If we suck at WR in 2020 and beyond, you'll have every right to be critical of Douglas for it.

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46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I'm sure a lot of Chargers fans thought in a similar fashion when they took Drew Brees in the 2nd round of the 2001 draft.  After all, they already had Doug Flutie as their starting QB at the time.

I have little doubt that Redskins fans were confused and critical when they took Kirk Cousins in the 4th round of the same draft they took RGIII.

I'm sure some Seahawks fans thought that when they took Russell Wilson in the 3rd round of the 2012 draft when they'd already spent big money on Matt Flynn.

I'll bet there were a few Eagles fans not too happy when they burned a 3rd round pick on Nick Foles in 2012.  After all, the Eagles already had Michael Vick and Trent Edwards.

I'm sure some Patriots fans were against taking Jimmy Garoppolo late in the 2nd round in 2014.  Brady had a lot of years left in the tank, after all, and this Jimmy kid was an unproven small school prospect.

My guess is Pats fans were upset once again 2 years later when they took Jacoby Brissett in the 3rd round.

I'll guarantee some Cowboys fans weren't happy when the Cowboys burned a 4th rounder on Dak Prescott.  They already had Tony Romo as their franchise QB.  

And while I doubt there was any anger over this pick, the Jaguars snagging Gardner Minshew in the 6th round of the '19 draft worked out pretty well.

 

Sure, these are only a few instances where a mid-round QB had that kind of upside.  But even if you end up with a Colt McCoy type, a career backup/spot starter, it's a worthwhile pick that saves you a some significant money in the long run.  

And I'm surprised you of all people are wringing your hands over a QB pick, given your very low level of optimism regarding Sam Darnold.  And it's not like Morgan was some no-named prospect.   He was somewhere in the range of QB5-QB10 on most sites, and rumor had it that the Patriots wanted Morgan in Round 5. 

All good points, 80.

I get the arguments FOR picking the QB, I just think the argument for taking a WR is stronger.

As we both pointed out though, it's a 4th round pick, so I'm not going to go crazy over it. I just didn't get my preference, which was a WR, I won't belabor the point any more, what's done is done.. Hopefully the QB works out.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I'm sure a lot of Chargers fans thought in a similar fashion when they took Drew Brees in the 2nd round of the 2001 draft.  After all, they already had Doug Flutie as their starting QB at the time.

I have little doubt that Redskins fans were confused and critical when they took Kirk Cousins in the 4th round of the same draft they took RGIII.

I'm sure some Seahawks fans thought that when they took Russell Wilson in the 3rd round of the 2012 draft when they'd already spent big money on Matt Flynn.

I'll bet there were a few Eagles fans not too happy when they burned a 3rd round pick on Nick Foles in 2012.  After all, the Eagles already had Michael Vick and Trent Edwards.

I'm sure some Patriots fans were against taking Jimmy Garoppolo late in the 2nd round in 2014.  Brady had a lot of years left in the tank, after all, and this Jimmy kid was an unproven small school prospect.

My guess is Pats fans were upset once again 2 years later when they took Jacoby Brissett in the 3rd round.

I'll guarantee some Cowboys fans weren't happy when the Cowboys burned a 4th rounder on Dak Prescott.  They already had Tony Romo as their franchise QB.  

And while I doubt there was any anger over this pick, the Jaguars snagging Gardner Minshew in the 6th round of the '19 draft worked out pretty well.

 

Sure, these are only a few instances where a mid-round QB had that kind of upside.  But even if you end up with a Colt McCoy type, a career backup/spot starter, it's a worthwhile pick that saves you a some significant money in the long run.  

And I'm surprised you of all people are wringing your hands over a QB pick, given your very low level of optimism regarding Sam Darnold.  And it's not like Morgan was some no-named prospect.   He was somewhere in the range of QB5-QB10 on most sites, and rumor had it that the Patriots wanted Morgan in Round 5. 

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37 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

All good points, 80.

I get the arguments FOR picking the QB, I just think the argument for taking a WR is stronger.

As we both pointed out though, it's a 4th round pick, so I'm not going to go crazy over it. I just didn't get my preference, which was a WR, I won't belabor the point any more, what's done is done.. Hopefully the QB works out.

 

The way I see it, Cager and Campbell were like draft picks, in a way.  They got a pair of guys who, in ordinary years, would have been 4th/5th round picks.  And they're now here under very cheap contracts for 3 years apiece.

I don't think JD, or a lot of the league's GM's, were as high on these WR's as people think.  And once these GM's drafted 1 WR, the likelihood of taking a 2nd one dropped precipitously.  Hence why only 8 of the 32 teams (Bills, Colts, Broncos, Raiders, Jaguars, Vikings, Eagles, Ravens) took 2 or more WRs in the Rd 1-6 range despite it being the deepest class in history.  

QB's are the most valuable commodity in the league by far.  So, when it makes sense to do so, I don't ever mind when a GM takes a swing on a QB.  Except Christian Hackenberg, lol.  If you suck in college you're not going to make it in the pros.  At least be a viable pro QB prospect.  Geno Smith was fine.  As were the Kellen Clemens and Bryce Petty picks.

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I've been a big fan of his but considering he was anointed one, Darnold hasn't exactly walked on water yet.  With a revamped line and a better receiving corps, this season will likely show who and what he really is.  If he continues with uneven play, Morgan will be competing for QB of the future. My gut feeling is management have seen enough to not be entirely confident than Sam will turn the corner.  And, all the legitimate excuses notwithstanding, I am not as sure about him as I once was.  Still hoping for the best.

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Darnold is younger than Morgan with 2 years nfl experience and has shown flashes of brilliance both in college and the pros. Morgan has not. I’d bet on Sam for the significantly better career when it’s all said and done. 

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IMO...a legit GM should always be focused on the most important position in football.  Even if you have an established FQB.  Have a perennial playoff team.  If a Wentz goes down...you want a Nick Foles on the team...to give the team a chance...to continue that special ride.  And top the season...by hoisting that Lombardi Trophy.  

I was sitting in the stands...got up and screamed..."he just blew out his Achilles!"  Vinny Testaverde's foot had just buckled...on that cheap rug of a field...without anybody touching him.  And he had to be helped off the field.  Guys sitting next to me turned around and stared.  And I repeated what I saw.  I knew Jets season was over.  Shame...Jets were one of the favorites to win the AFCE and land in the Supe. 

I've seen about 8 tapes of film on Morgan.  Like what I see.  Strong arm.  Decent athleticism.  Sees the field well.  Seems capable of processing...post snap read...in fractions of seconds...what's happening on the field.  For the most part making good decisions under pressured situations on many of his throes.  Yet got rid of the ball to receivers.  Didn't throw many INTs.  Giving his receivers chances to make catches.  Sometimes difficult ones.  But...IMO...his OL and receivers were mediocre to subpar.  I saw lots of 1.5 - 2.0 secs of pass pro...and receivers dropping his fastball when he had to release it quickly.  When he had more time to set his feet and release it.  Morgan made some really impressive throws all over the field.  Especially deep downfield.    

Morgan may be raw.  But has the tools to develop...if you give him time.  Which he has under a 4 year contract.  Hope he just holds a clipboard this year.  Learns the playbook.  Takes in valuable info from meetings and practices with the team.  Does he have the tools and make to be a Nick Foles...a Kirk Cousins or a Garappolo?  Yea...I think so.  But only time will tell if he is one.      

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On 5/8/2020 at 12:29 PM, slimjasi said:

Again, my only issue with the Morgan pick, is that I would have greatly preferred waiting until the 5th round. 

The dream scenario in any draft is for all guys taken in the first 4 rounds to contribute meaningfully in year 1 and the chances of this guy doing that are extremely low. 

Having said that, I also believe in stock-piling young QBs, and if Douglas really likes this guy, I'm intrigued. You just never know . . . 

Ok so let’s say, Hall was taken in the 4th and Morgan the fifth would we be happy the ? Cause if you are then you should be excited how it turns out. JD got the algorithm of how this played out  perfectly.  Cause they were able to take Morgan and block other teams from taking him and still got Hall in rd 5.

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40 minutes ago, Mavericknyc1980 said:

Ok so let’s say, Hall was taken in the 4th and Morgan the fifth would we be happy the ? Cause if you are then you should be excited how it turns out. JD got the algorithm of how this played out  perfectly.  Cause they were able to take Morgan and block other teams from taking him and still got Hall in rd 5.

Fair, but I really wanted another WR in the 4th. 

At the end of the day, I'm cool with it and I'm definitely intrigued by Morgan to some degree. 

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19 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Fair, but I really wanted another WR in the 4th. 

At the end of the day, I'm cool with it and I'm definitely intrigued by Morgan to some degree. 

I doubt a WR would have been the pick regardless had we not taken Morgan in the 4th.

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On 5/8/2020 at 3:36 PM, Rangers9 said:

I definitely would put him in a competition for backup Qb. It won't take Gase long to figure out if this guy is up to play if called upon. You only can hope he is a better Qb than Bryce Petty who got starts and a chance. 

This year’s Petty was taken by the Chargers in the first round his name is Justin Herbert

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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

This year’s Petty was taken by the Chargers in the first round his name is Justin Herbert

I compared him to Petty because he was a 4th rounder. Petty did get 7 starts with the Jets. Even though 7 isn't a big enough sample size to evaluate a Qb when you're a 4th rounder it's a chance and he didn't make the most out of it. As for Herbert the Fins made the right decision taking a chance with Tua. What they should do for 2020 if there is a season is to not play Tua at all maybe just put him on the PUP list and let him learn under Fitz. And Fitz is a good teacher just don't do it the way he does. Do what he says not what he does on the field. 

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