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No Excuses - Darnold needs to STEP IT UP!


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30 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:
  1. Patrick Mahomes
  2. Drew Brees - lol
  3. Lamar Jackson 
  4. Russell Wilson
  5. Deshaun Watson
  6. Aaron Rodgers
  7. Matt Ryan - lol
  8. Jimmy Garoppolo - lol
  9. Matthew Stafford - lol
  10. Dak Prescott - lol 
  11. Carson Wentz
  12. Tom Brady 
  13. Philip Rivers - lol 
  14. Kirk Cousins - lol
  15. Jared Goff - lol

 

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Take a look at what Gase's system did without Darnold in there.  Sam was the only one on offense that was stepping up last year. 

First of all I love Sam and I am super excited for whenever the season starts but JD has taken away every excuse one can use (other than health) for Sams relative lack of success so far. The fact

I'd say he did alright when given enough time.

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

 

So you have Darnold as a top 10 QB. Got it.

I just want you to understand one thing, and one thing only. Somewhere out there on the internet there's a poster on a Bears message board who laughs at everyone who doesn't believe Mitch Trubisky is a top 10 QB. You would be correct if you thought he was delusional.

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13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So you have Darnold as a top 10 QB. Got it.

I just want you to understand one thing, and one thing only. Somewhere out there on the internet there's a poster on a Bears message board who laughs at everyone who doesn't believe Mitch Trubisky is a top 10 QB. You would be correct if you thought he was delusional.

He has Darnold as a top 2. Behind only Mahomes and that's because wepenz. You put Darnold on the Chiefs and he'd have 60 TDs.

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30 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So you have Darnold as a top 10 QB. Got it.

I just want you to understand one thing, and one thing only. Somewhere out there on the internet there's a poster on a Bears message board who laughs at everyone who doesn't believe Mitch Trubisky is a top 10 QB. You would be correct if you thought he was delusional.

Unless you believe that garrapolo, Goff, cousins, and Dak are better... I guess yea, he is a top 10 QB. 

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I think you can easily be a huge supporter of Darnold, be impressed with how he's played in tough spots and still feel like it's obvious he needs to play better going forward.

He looked like a star during the final weeks of 2018 and I was hoping he'd make a massive leap year two. He didn't. Obviously a big factor in that was out of his control -- namely a dreadful offensive line and mono -- but he simply wasn't as good as he needed to be.

That said, I think there's a strong possibility he takes that leap this year. Another year in the same offense and a greatly improved offensive line (we hope) should work wonders.

But really, he should have a passer rating of 95 or better in 2020. That's where he needs to be.

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5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think you can easily be a huge supporter of Darnold, be impressed with how he's played in tough spots and still feel like it's obvious he needs to play better going forward.

He looked like a star during the final weeks of 2018 and I was hoping he'd make a massive leap year two. He didn't. Obviously a big factor in that was out of his control -- namely a dreadful offensive line and mono -- but he simply wasn't as good as he needed to be.

That said, I think there's a strong possibility he takes that leap this year. Another year in the same offense and a greatly improved offensive line (we hope) should work wonders.

But really, he should have a passer rating of 95 or better in 2020. That's where he needs to be.

Great Post.  I think this is how people who are fans of Sam feel.  Nobody is saying he has been great, we have listed he things he needs to fix and stop doing.  However a lot of things like injuries and lack of Oline/weapons are things out of his control.  Those aren’t excuses they are just facts.  I think we all agree he needs to step up now that he has had 2 years and a improved oline 

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Mims is a huge addition to the offense, I believe bigger than the loss of Robby, but I would loved to have seen Robby with Mims.

Not keeping Robby over $3mm is still a head scratcher to me.

The biggest concern is still the O-Line.  I think Becton has a long way to go in the passing game and is likely a downgrade from what we had last year.  Becton was an average college pass blocker - Shell or Beachum are likely better than him in that area at this point.  We upgraded center but that’s about it.

OL is still a HUGE question mark.  If the oline can be middle of the road I think Sam has a break out year.  But that’s a big IF.

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

Mims is a huge addition to the offense, I believe bigger than the loss of Robby, but I would loved to have seen Robby with Mims.

Not keeping Robby over $3mm is still a head scratcher to me.

The biggest concern is still the O-Line.  I think Becton has a long way to go in the passing game and is likely a downgrade from what we had last year.  Becton was an average college pass blocker - Shell or Beachum are likely better than him in that area at this point.  We upgraded center but that’s about it.

OL is still a HUGE question mark.  If the oline can be middle of the road I think Sam has a break out year.  But that’s a big IF.

I think the oline is still not great but much improved than the last two years 

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2 hours ago, peebag said:

I only see 3 on your list that would do better - Mahomes, Rodgers and Wilson.  L.Jackson and D.Watson would have been killed by running on almost every play and the rest would have been killed due to being sitting ducks.

Not to mention chicken v.egg: these QBs under Gase, in his first year.

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Who exactly is worried about Sam Darnold?  He's the best player on the team.

Worry about his supporting cast, worry that the OL plays to its potential, that the WR's stay healthy, that Bell can get his burst back.  Sam?  Please.

SAR I

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6 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So you view Darnold as a top 5 QB then?

Dont know yet but how he came through last season unscathed and won few games with basically a semi-pro offensive line impressed the hell out of me

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The huggies do have to come off this year for sure. I see the talent there...and I do expect Darnold will breakout this year.   And maybe we'll also find out why Peyton Manning swears by Gase's "offensive mind".

JD is taking away excuses.  The last five players he drafted were all captains of their team.  He's changing the culture.  He's expecting to see that carry over to play on the field.  Those that can't cut it are going to be discarded.    

Jets should be competing for the AFCE...now.

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The issue with Darnold that concerns me about his long term development is that he panics when he’s under pressure. I’m not sure if you can coach that out of him. In the NFL you need to be able to hang in the pocket and deliver the football. 

Douglas has the right idea in building the oline which hopefully will hopefully build his confidence and give him some extra time. 

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18 hours ago, nico002 said:

Unless you believe that garrapolo, Goff, cousins, and Dak are better... I guess yea, he is a top 10 QB. 

Yes, they are all better than Darnold at the moment.   

Doesn't mean I'd rather have any of them over Darnold except possibly Dak.  But they are all better right now.

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, they are all better than Darnold at the moment.   

Doesn't mean I'd rather have any of them over Darnold except possibly Dak.  But they are all better right now.

Dak has the best OL RB and a top 10 WR. Don’t you remember what that Dallas offense looked like before cooper? Darnold sure looked like the better player when they played each other last year. 

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On 4/27/2020 at 12:35 PM, Losmeister said:

2 small things.

one) Bells production has nothing to do with "how Gase uses him" if we ran more last year we would have punted even more than we did.

people kept it up with "Gase isnt using him properly. utter nonsense.

the OL was bad and Bell is slow. he's just slow. doesnt mean he cant be effective. he's sort of a shifty power back who catches the ball well. we threw the ball to him plenty.

its about the OL. and then Bells should be at least ok. Am hoping like 4.5 ypc.

two) Perriman is 1st rnd bust who is less prodcutive than RA. "more talented" i"more complete" is hogwash. 1/2 as productive is what he is. 

we'd be better off Chowda, Mims and RA. with chowda getting the least targets. 

(and i think Perriman is ok as a 3rd wr. ok)

and i pretty much agree on what you said about Mims being as good as Toon. Im a believer.. 

otherwise, yes. 

sam needs step it the **** up. 

 

For whatever reason, you aren't  taking into a count the RA can't  run anything effectively  except a deep post. Perriman has a much more complete route tree. That alone makes him bettet. 

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On 4/27/2020 at 12:17 PM, JetBlue said:

First of all I love Sam and I am super excited for whenever the season starts but JD has taken away every excuse one can use (other than health) for Sams relative lack of success so far.

The fact is Sam is probably younger than some of quarterbacks drafted this year so he is still years away from a finished product, still the Jets have given him just about everything he needs to take his game and the offense to the next level. 

1. This will be Sams second year in Gase's system so he should be more familiar and comfortable. 

2. Offensive line - Mount Becton, Clark and all the FA signings changes the very nature of the Jets offense.  For the first time in a while we can actually play some smash mouth football and expect to give Sam a clean pocket to throw from that will last more than 1.5 seconds.   LeVeon Bell should have a bounce back season to the extent that Gase fully utilizes him.  5th round pick L. Perine, may not be the flashiest RB but he is an all around player who can block, catch and be productive running the ball.  the perfect back up to Bell.  Trent Cannon provides the speed out of the backfield and in his 3rd year may be ready to blossom, especially behind this new and improved OL. 

3.  Weapons for the Passing game - I loved what Anderson brought to Jets as a deep threat but it was obvious he was limited in other areas.   The signing of Breshad Perriman has been panned by many on this board as a downgrade from Anderson and if we simply look at past production, they would have a point.  However, if we consider talent and upside Perriman offers the team a more complete player without losing the ability to beat teams deep.   The trading down and eventual drafting of Denzel Mims is the kind of thing we are used to seeing other teams do.   When I look at Mims, I see a guy who may be the best receiver this team has drafted since Al Toon; THAT is how talented and special he could be.   The rest of the receiving corp is talented but mostly unproven with the exception of Jamison Crowder who has proven to be a prototypical slot receiver and already a favorite target of Darnold.   Bottom line is Sam has 3 legit wide out targets to go along with several other talented receivers.   At TE the combination of Griffin and Herndon are as good as any in the division. 

4.  Competition - The drafting of James Morgan in the 4th round was a serious shocker to many including myself, but not as much to other GMs and other draft experts.   The guy is extremely raw but is also has prototypical size and true cannon of an arm.  His drafting is almost like a "shot across the bow" of Sam Darnold.  Let us not forget; JD didn't trade those 2nd round picks to move up in the draft.  Nor was he the one who drafted Darnold.  He has no allegiance to him other than wanting him to succeed because it will make his job that much easier.  If Sam has another injury plagued year or doesn't not show significant improvement, there is nothing to stop Douglas from drafting another quarterback next year as well.  

5.  The Defense - Gregg Williams did an incredible job last year and I don't see any reason why that won't continue this year (barring injuries to key players)  He will have CJ Mosely back with could be huge, another year for Quinnen Williams, a crop of very talented rookies in areas of real need (Edge and Secondary) to go along with all the returning players who played well last year.   This means Darnold should have more opportunities. 

6. Special Teams - The drafting of Braden Mann should help the Jets win the field position battle more often than not, giving the offense a shorter field to work with.   

7. Maturity - this will be Sams 3rd season and he has gotten plenty of playing time and has had his share of success and adversity.  He should know what to expect from opposing defenses and DC.   with our porous OL he has had to make some decision faster than he would have liked but the game overall should be slowing down for him.  Now that he should have more time in the pocket, he should be able to cut down on the turnovers and recognize when it is just better to throw the ball away.  

In closing, for all the reason stated above, the ball is now firmly in Darnolds court.  It is time for him to take that step up and become a top 10 - 15 quarterback in this league.  NO EXCUSES, PERIOD.  If he does that, this team is going to the PLAYOFFS  this year.  I really believe that.    Lets Go Sam!  I'm rooting for you!! 
 

What you aren't  considering is even though we have a much better OL than last season (could it be worse?) They have no experience  playing together or with Sam. We might be off to a rocky start. I think game 6 or 7 is where we can really see what we have. Hopefully sooner.  

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9 hours ago, JetFan20 said:

The issue with Darnold that concerns me about his long term development is that he panics when he’s under pressure. I’m not sure if you can coach that out of him. In the NFL you need to be able to hang in the pocket and deliver the football. 

Douglas has the right idea in building the oline which hopefully will hopefully build his confidence and give him some extra time. 

I think a big reason is that he knows he is under pressure constantly and has to compensate for that which leads to some bad decisions.  Yes I agree he still needs to avoid forcing stuff but I think that’s where it comes from 

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37 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Dak has the best OL RB and a top 10 WR. Don’t you remember what that Dallas offense looked like before cooper? Darnold sure looked like the better player when they played each other last year. 

Cool story.  Dak is still better.  Head to head bias is not going to sway the argument in your favor there, either.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Cool story.  Dak is still better.  Head to head bias is not going to sway the argument in your favor there, either.

Good argument, sounds like you are related to Dak. 

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23 hours ago, Jetworks said:

But what if there are excuses? I'm only half-kidding here. What if players get hurt? What if there's another mono outbreak? Are those not legitimate excuses? 

Darnold will be fine as long as the coaching/playcalling is adequate and players who are relied upon to perform do so. Hopefully he will reach a point where he is good enough to mitigate some of those things should they fall short, but the guy is working with 1.5 seasons under his belt, under two different coaches, and a dearth of talent around him. Take a breath. 

Injuries and illnesses are always out of ones' control so why even bring them up?  If Darnold gets hit by lightening or contracts Covid-19 then all bets are off.  The assumption is that we have a relatively healthy team.    I already addressed those issues; he is in the second year with the same coach and system.  He is going into his third season and by all reasonable measures his OL and weapons should be better.   Take a breath? Seriously?  Who are you Obi Wan Kobi?  

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Honestly I think it’s useless comparing QBs no matter what side you are on.  They are all different for the most part and come from different situations.  I’m just focused on Sam.  I do agree with the message of the OP.  Obviously he first two years he had a lot of obstacles with him but mostly the terrible ship the team was in.  Joe Douglas has done a good job addressing the most important thing which is the oline. 

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Overall, though our team has been bad it's time for him to step up, and I fully believe he will. It's year 3, and his 2nd year in the system with an off-season to heal this thumb, and possibly recover completely from mono. It's possible that he hits his big jump that usually comes in year 2 this season. 

I don't think our team is at the level it needs to be to truly unlock him, however he should at least post a 90-95 rating, and improve his TD/Int to 2-1. I would be very excited for our future if he reaches/surpasses those bars.

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6 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Injuries and illnesses are always out of ones' control so why even bring them up?  If Darnold gets hit by lightening or contracts Covid-19 then all bets are off.  The assumption is that we have a relatively healthy team.    I already addressed those issues; he is in the second year with the same coach and system.  He is going into his third season and by all reasonable measures his OL and weapons should be better.   Take a breath? Seriously?  Who are you Obi Wan Kobi?  

Got it. Some really keen insight there, thanks for setting me straight.

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, they are all better than Darnold at the moment.   

Doesn't mean I'd rather have any of them over Darnold except possibly Dak.  But they are all better right now.

Sam has a ton to prove, but that doesn’t mean the others are better than him. All things considered, I think Dak is the only one of those QBs who is better than Sam, and that’s apples to oranges given the embarrassment of riches that Dak has had at his disposal his entire career.

Goff had 1 statistically strong season but his situational splits were awful under pressure or without either of Gurley or Kupp. Jimmy G is a weaker version of the NFC’s Tannehill. And Kirk Cousins has a grand total of like 2 wins in 5 season against a top 10 defense. I don’t have it handy but even if Darnold only has 1 win against a top 10 D, it’s already half of Kirk’s in less than half the games.

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10 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Sam has a ton to prove, but that doesn’t mean the others are better than him. All things considered, I think Dak is the only one of those QBs who is better than Sam, and that’s apples to oranges given the embarrassment of riches that Dak has had at his disposal his entire career.

Goff had 1 statistically strong season but his situational splits were awful under pressure or without either of Gurley or Kupp. Jimmy G is a weaker version of the NFC’s Tannehill. And Kirk Cousins has a grand total of like 2 wins in 5 season against a top 10 defense. I don’t have it handy but even if Darnold only has 1 win against a top 10 D, it’s already half of Kirk’s in less than half the games.

Far more reasonable take than Nico accusing me of being a family member of Dak Prescott.  lol.  

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On 4/27/2020 at 6:26 PM, nico002 said:

Unless you believe that garrapolo, Goff, cousins, and Dak are better... I guess yea, he is a top 10 QB. 

Not everyone has the eye for potential and the understanding stats are not to be trusted like you do. You have a gift. 

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29 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Not everyone has the eye for potential and the understanding stats are not to be trusted like you do. You have a gift. 

Name 15 QBs you’d trade Darnold for right now.

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