Tony Pauline on Mims

[Sonny Werblin]

18 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That's actually a very fair question. 

They probably liked guys like Jefferson/Claypool/Mims equally and figured 1 would drop. 

They could have also liked a bunch of the later round guys and would have taken 2 in the later rounds if Mims hadn't fallen to them.

Douglas appears to be a guy that plays the draft like a game of chess as opposed to mac who played it like checkers (whoever is the best rated player that falls into your lap, you take.)

Checkers and Chess is a good analogy because while Mac played the draft only thinking about what he was going to do, JD factors in what other teams will do, and I am willing to bet that they were predicting that based on team needs and prior selections, the chances of multiple WRs being taken before 59 was low. And lo and behold not only were they right, they were so right that none were taken.

[Dcat]

31 minutes ago, rangerous said:

douglas may not be a genius but he did something mac wouldn't have even dreamed of doing.  it's still a good move.

Of course.  I love the move... due to the results and I really love this draft....   and also JDs management of free agency.  I see a light at the end of a long long tunnel.  

And it's completely the opposite of Mac, whose lone lucky moment was moving up to 3, a good move.  It guaranteed neither Mayfield nor Darnold, but it obviously upped the odds.  Especially with Gettlemen at the helm in East Rutherford.  With Mac it was just a case of a broken clock being correct twice a day.  Here, I think JD lucked out with Mims  and had a list that included a group of WRs as well as other positions and was fine with it.  

[Sammybighead]

We got Mims!!!
 

That is all

[Jetsfan80]

On 4/29/2020 at 7:09 PM, Beerfish said:

Don;t be utterly stupid.  If you look at my reaction I was elated we got mims when we did but it is like heaping praise on mccagnan for trading up to #3 and getting lucky to get darnold.

We traded down when he was on the board 2 WRs were taken between the time we traded down and when we got mims.

Douglas was lucky on this one.

The day the Jets have a perfect draft is the day i will heap praise on them for a whole draft.

 

This wasn't "luck".  It was a calculated risk.  And one he was willing to take because he had a contingency plan in place if Mims didn't make it.  

[Jetsfan80]

On 4/29/2020 at 7:12 PM, Beerfish said:

Much like mcgagnan was a genius for getting darnold by trade up to #3 even though he could have been stuck with any of about 4 QBs.

Hey i said this very thing at the time, Douglas is a genius but he would have been a gnius with two or three other Wrs he could have had at that point in the draft.

Not sure why you think this.  Mims was a superior prospect to the other WR's on the board, both at 48 and 59.  

[Jetsfan80]

On 4/29/2020 at 7:45 PM, JTJet said:

For sure. I guess the angle I'm more curious about is why the other teams all passed on him twice instead of us being so lucky we got him. 

It's possible we had Mims higher than any other team out there for whatever reason, and JD was confident he'd still be there.

It's important to note that Douglas interviewed the kid twice.  Undoubtedly he was sold on the kid, but only at a certain price point.

I'm not going to second guess the decision.  Clearly JD had a good feel for the board.  If any part of it was luck, well its about time we got a little luck here, no?  And luck is a residue of design, after all.

[Jetsfan80]

On 4/29/2020 at 8:12 PM, Greenseed4 said:

The only people who moved him up their boards are sitting at their computers discussing why he dropped. The reality is a lot of WRs went in unexpected slots. Who REALLY thought Ruggs would go first? Or, Lamb would go third (and to DAL at that?!), or that DEN/PHI wouldn’t trade up but SF would?

Not to mention the sheer number of receivers that were taken "pushed down" a lot of other guys.  There's only so many WR's that teams need/want.  It was an over-saturation of the market this year.  Mims wasn't the only WR in this draft class that went a lot later than expected.  

[Jetsfan80]

23 hours ago, Prez33 said:

The fanbase is always sure that they’re smarter than the guy that’s paid to do this. Hindsight is always 20/20 when the results come in. The guy living in his mom’s basement will always emerge two years later, screaming “I told ya so!”  
 

It’s comedy. And actually, quite sad too. 

 

Well in the case of Macc we all were indeed smarter.  

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, RobR said:

Completely agree that once they pull the trigger on that position their draft board would and should turn dramatically. IE After Becton went in the first you would have to believe they dropped all of the OT's down several notches.......and that is the way our draft played out.

I recall there were several whiners demanding we take Josh Jones in the 2nd/3rd round.  Le sigh.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

Of course.  I love the move... due to the results and I really love this draft....   and also JDs management of free agency.  I see a light at the end of a long long tunnel.  

And it's completely the opposite of Mac, whose lone lucky moment was moving up to 3, a good move.  It guaranteed neither Mayfield nor Darnold, but it obviously upped the odds.  Especially with Gettlemen at the helm in East Rutherford.  With Mac it was just a case of a broken clock being correct twice a day.  Here, I think JD lucked out with Mims  and had a list that included a group of WRs as well as other positions and was fine with it.  

 

And Macc didn't even negotiate the deal.  That was Heimerdinger.  Macc only deserves credit for approving it.  

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not sure why you think this.  Mims was a superior prospect to the other WR's on the board, both at 48 and 59.  

Douglas didn't think so.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Douglas didn't think so.

How do you know this?  We don't know that it was Mims vs another WR.  It could have easily been Mims vs Ashtyn Davis.  

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This wasn't "luck".  It was a calculated risk.  And one he was willing to take because he had a contingency plan in place if Mims didn't make it.  

No it was luck.  Because if you are a team in dire need of impact Wr's and your top guy is there at 48, something many did not think would happen, you take him.

If contingency means drafting a worse wr prospect then you are right there.

We needed Wr bad, he did not take the top guy when we had the chance so there fore he was fine with taking any of about 3 or 4 other wrs.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How do you know this?  We don't know that it was Mims vs another WR.  It could have easily been Mims vs Ashtyn Davis.  

What difference does it make?  People are heaping praise on douglas for not taking Mims and then getting him later.

I can imagine how pleased the forum would be if he took davis after not drafting mims.

Hey Douglas had a good draft and things worked out for him but he was very lucky to get mims.

[Il Mostro]

Me likey.  Likey likey!

[Lupz27]

23 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Perriman will obviously be number one

I really hope this isn’t true, if so Darnold is ****ed for a 3rd year.  Jets best route runner is a guy the dumb HC won’t run routes Lev Bell, and besides Crowder it’s not even close.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

What difference does it make?  People are heaping praise on douglas for not taking Mims and then getting him later.

I can imagine how pleased the forum would be if he took davis after not drafting mims.

Hey Douglas had a good draft and things worked out for him but he was very lucky to get mims.

 

People are heaping praise on Douglas for taking a calculated risk, making a solid trade down for the first time in a couple decades for this franchise, and still landing a quality player.  Exactly what we would have hoped to come out of a draft where we needed a big influx of a lot of young talent.

I was on board with trading down whether we landed Mims or not.  Getting him on top of that was a nice bonus.  But you also can't discount the idea that Douglas might have thought there was a decennt chance that Mims would still be there.  Why is that so impossible to imagine?  No one can say for sure what the marketplace looks like for particular players.  No draftniks or experts get that stuff right pre-draft.  Who's to say we don't, for once, have a GM that has a pulse on this stuff that others didn't?  Mims wasn't even supposed to be there at 48.  Yet somehow there was little chance he'd fall to 59, too?  

[Dcat]

12 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

We got Mims!!!
 

That is all

Nothing could be more correct or better said!

[Dcat]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This wasn't "luck".  It was a calculated risk.  And one he was willing to take because he had a contingency plan in place if Mims didn't make it.  

Of course there is a degree of luck to it.  Any time the fate of a choice is dependent on outside forces, there is "luck" involved.  The phrase "calculated risk" means luck by definition.  JD did not have any control over what picks other teams were going to make from 49-58.  Hence: luck.  That doesn't mean he didn't have some inside knowledge of what some of the other teams might do nor does it mean that he wasn't prepared if Mims had been taken.  No doubt, he had a bevy of terrific prospects on his list for 59.  But that Mims fell that far?  Calculated risk, of course, but fully willing to let Mims go elsewhere (thank you Rams) and result is indeed "lucky".  

I'm sorry for playing semantics, but to claim it wasn't luck just defies what luck means. 

[Claymation]

No it was luck.  Because if you are a team in dire need of impact Wr's and your top guy is there at 48, something many did not think would happen, you take him.
If contingency means drafting a worse wr prospect then you are right there.
We needed Wr bad, he did not take the top guy when we had the chance so there fore he was fine with taking any of about 3 or 4 other wrs.

Luck is the residue of design.
-Branch Rickey

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Luck is the residue of design.
-Branch Rickey

Yes design can increase chances.  But in the end, it is still luck and chance plays a role.

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, Dcat said:

Of course.  I love the move... due to the results and I really love this draft....   and also JDs management of free agency.  I see a light at the end of a long long tunnel.  

And it's completely the opposite of Mac, whose lone lucky moment was moving up to 3, a good move.  It guaranteed neither Mayfield nor Darnold, but it obviously upped the odds.  Especially with Gettlemen at the helm in East Rutherford.  With Mac it was just a case of a broken clock being correct twice a day.  Here, I think JD lucked out with Mims  and had a list that included a group of WRs as well as other positions and was fine with it.  

i think mac was a broken 24 hour clock.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Luck is the residue of design.
-Branch Rickey

I won;t argue with that.

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

Yes design can increase chances.  But in the end, it is still luck and chance plays a role.

It's probabilities.  Just guessing of course, but suppose JD  gave it something like a 75% or more chance that Mims would still be there at 59 based on his insider knowledge.  That makes it far more of a calculated risk than dumb luck.  

I didn't mean to imply there was ZERO luck at all.  But Beerfish was putting it pretty much all on luck, and that's not true at all in my mind.

I've compared the draft to poker rather than a crapshoot.  In this situation JD was playing Texas Hold Em and sitting there like he had pocket Aces.  He then raised the stakes accordingly.

[JetPotato]

On 4/29/2020 at 6:14 PM, TNJet said:

If this guy had played in the SEC I doubt he'd have went past #15. I think its because he played at Baylor.

Mims the word

[GreenReaper]

With like 20+ WRs that looked good to be picked between rounds 1-3.  Outside of the top 3-4 consensus wideouts expected to go ahead of the rest in the 1st round.  It's not that surprising the rest were picked based on scheme and fit.  As some teams liked  "toemaahtoes" and others "toomaaytoes".  Some apples...some pears.  

And what's the usual reality...that some got it right while others not.  We'll just have to see them play.

Hindsight tells me JD was not going to draft WR in the #11 with two OL choices there.  And his preference probably was to tradedowm and add more picks.  As he did in 2nd - 3rd rounds.  

And he didn't want Mims-Claypool-V. Jefferson more then he wanted a tradedown in the 2nd.  

I disagreed with JD.  I wasn't happy.  I'm a fan...not the GM!  It was Mims for me at #48.  IMO...he was someone you could make a case as no worse then the 5th - 6th best receiver in this loaded class.  Especially if you look at athleticism and his measureables...he's top 3.  From that point of view only...he compares favorably to a Julio Jones.

Though I think Jeudy was by far the best...Mims could be the steal among this WR group.  

I loved Toon.  But to me the comparison is...Mims as a superior Braylon Edwards.  Who can make those backdoor and fade catches.  Acrobatic leaping catches everywhere.  Yet still race 50 yards down the field and catch it on the fly. 

Mims has long arms and strong hands.  You can see him on tape at the LOS...delivery a jolt to the CB...then releasing into his route.  Rather then allowing the corner to jam him instead.   He's a fierce blocker for the running game.  Staying with his block until the whistle blows.  

Mims is a complete WR.   Who showed much more potential as a route runner at the Senior Bowl.  

Again...I disagreed with JD passing on him at #48.  But obviously read the draft like a crafty GM...and still got my man Mims!   

Mims speaking with JD when picked at #59...

 

Download video

To all who passed him up...Payback...gonna be a b!!!tch!

 

 

[flgreen]

3 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

With like 20+ WRs that looked good to be picked between rounds 1-3.  Outside of the top 3-4 consensus wideouts expected to go ahead of the rest in the 1st round.  It's not that surprising the rest were picked based on scheme and fit.  As some teams liked  "toemaahtoes" and others "toomaaytoes".  Some apples...some pears.  

And what's the usual reality...that some got it right while others not.  We'll just have to see them play.

Hindsight tells me JD was not going to draft WR in the #11 with two OL choices there.  And his preference probably was to tradedowm and add more picks.  As he did in 2nd - 3rd rounds.  

And he didn't want Mims-Claypool-V. Jefferson more then he wanted a tradedown in the 2nd.  

I disagreed with JD.  I wasn't happy.  I'm a fan...not the GM!  It was Mims for me at #48.  IMO...he was someone you could make a case as no worse then the 5th - 6th best receiver in this loaded class.  Especially if you look at athleticism and his measureables...he's top 3.  From that point of view only...he compares favorably to a Julio Jones.

Though I think Jeudy was by far the best...Mims could be the steal among this WR group.  

I loved Toon.  But to me the comparison is...Mims as a superior Braylon Edwards.  Who can make those backdoor and fade catches.  Acrobatic leaping catches everywhere.  Yet still race 50 yards down the field and catch it on the fly. 

Mims has long arms and strong hands.  You can see him on tape at the LOS...delivery a jolt to the CB...then releasing into his route.  Rather then allowing the corner to jam him instead.   He's a fierce blocker for the running game.  Staying with his block until the whistle blows.  

Mims is a complete WR.   Who showed much more potential as a route runner at the Senior Bowl.  

Again...I disagreed with JD passing on him at #48.  But obviously read the draft like a crafty GM...and still got my man Mims!   

Mims speaking with JD when picked at #59...

 

Download video

To all who passed him up...Payback...gonna be a b!!!tch!

 

 

LOL

"Celebrate with the family"? My Lord, It looked like a wake in that house.  Compared to, I think it was the Zuniga call.  Could barely hear it because the family was going wild.  "MOM PLease, I'm talking to my boss"  LOL

   I really think this guy thought he had the talent to go top 10.........I do too.

 

[flgreen]

Question:  Does the NFL supply all the potential draft picks with all 32 hats?

[RobR]

29 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Question:  Does the NFL supply all the potential draft picks with all 32 hats?

If they have them on camera they have no other choice.

[Philc1]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:53 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

I recall there were several whiners demanding we take Josh Jones in the 2nd/3rd round.  Le sigh.

Wah! Becton Wah!

[Philc1]

On 4/30/2020 at 2:40 PM, Sonny Werblin said:

Checkers and Chess is a good analogy because while Mac played the draft only thinking about what he was going to do, JD factors in what other teams will do, and I am willing to bet that they were predicting that based on team needs and prior selections, the chances of multiple WRs being taken before 59 was low. And lo and behold not only were they right, they were so right that none were taken.

JD definitely had some inside knowledge about teams not liking Mims for whatever reason

[Sonny Werblin]

9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

JD definitely had some inside knowledge about teams not liking Mims for whatever reason

Eagles at 53. I was sure they were going Mims, or at least WR, after screwing up their first pick. Who didn’t think they were picking a WR at 53?

[DirtyJersey]

On 4/29/2020 at 6:00 PM, JetsLife said:

New York Jets

Steal: Denzel Mims was described to me as the most complete package at the receiver position. If he develops into a starter, this will be one of the finest selections by the Jets in a long, long time.

 

Exact type of big body guy they needed for 3rd down and red zone. 

Fingers crossed that the o-line gives Darnold enough time to make good decisions.  

[Claymation]

Question:  Does the NFL supply all the potential draft picks with all 32 hats?

Yes, it’s part of the package they received from the NFL. Someone said that they didn’t know what they wanted to do with the other 31 hats.

[Claymation]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:42 AM, Dcat said:

Yes design can increase chances.  But in the end, it is still luck and chance plays a role.

Not if you understand what the teams needs are and what they are thinking. Is there a risk? yes. But this team has been risk averse for quite sometime it's about time they took a calculated risk and it did pay off in spades.