Ashtyn Davis vs Jamal Adams

[AFJF]

So when the Davis pick was made, I read comments from Davis himself and from analysts saying he was best suited and most comfortable as a deep safety, leading me to believe he was Marcus Maye's eventual replacement.

After watching him in action, while he may say he's most comfortable playing deep, he's certianly capable of being a difference maker in a variety of roles much like Jamal is.

Adams is certainly the bigger hitter while in the box, but Davis is plenty capable of playing inside while offering what looks to be far superior coverage against the pass.  Keep in mind, Davis had 7 incterceptions in his final 36 games college games.  Adams has 7 interceptions in his last 82 games between college and pro.

At first I thought the "Davis is Adams' replacement" talk was silly conspiracy stuff.

Looking at how versatile he is while possibly being an upgrade in coverage, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

Thoughts?

[kdels62]

So you’re saying we should trade Jamal?

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So when the Davis pick was made, I read comments from Davis himself and from analysts saying he was best suited and most comfortable as a deep safety, leading me to believe he was Marcus Maye's eventual replacement.

After watching him in action, while he may say he's most comfortable playing deep, he's certianly capable of being a difference maker in a variety of roles much like Jamal is.

Adams is certainly the bigger hitter while in the box, but Davis is plenty capable of playing inside while offering what looks to be far superior coverage against the pass.  Keep in mind, Davis had 7 incterceptions in his final 36 games college games.  Adams has 7 interceptions in his last 82 games between college and pro.

At first I thought the "Davis is Adams' replacement" talk was silly conspiracy stuff.

Looking at how versatile he is while possibly being an upgrade in coverage, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

Thoughts?

WTF is this. Why don't  you wait until the guy plays a game before he replaces a two time pro bowl selection  and a first team all pro last season. 

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So you’re saying we should trade Jamal?

No, I think they should re-sign Jamal.

Thing is, does this move suggest theyre preparing not to?

 

[JetsFanatic]

Just now, AFJF said:

No, I think they should re-sign Jamal.

Thing is, does this move suggest theyre preparing not to?

 

Not at all.  Joe Douglas is a smart GM and realizes you build team by collecting talented players, not trading them.

[T0mShane]

I don’t think Davis has to play the same style as Jamal because I don’t think what Jamal does is sustainable for a 210 lb human, and ramming his face into the LOS is going to wear him down sooner than later. The optimal scenario is that Quinnen Williams starts to deliver a consistent pass rush, and Jenkins and Zuniga combine for 15-20 sacks so we don’t have to keep rushing the strong safety. You’ll have a better, more consistent defense. And when that happens, is it really worth it to pay a strong safety with no ball production if you’re not blitzing him half the time? No. No it is not

[Greenseed4]

Thoughts: I think the idea is to have interchangeable safeties who can play box or roamer. What Adams lacks in athleticism he makes up for with pre-snap and instincts; what Davis lacks in pre-snap and instincts he makes up for with elite athleticism.  We can have TWO presidents and completely baffle opposing QBs. 

[BUM-KNEE]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

No, I think they should re-sign Jamal.

Thing is, does this move suggest theyre preparing not to?

 

Maybe.

Or they want a viable depth piece in case of injury to our best defensive player.

[BUM-KNEE]

2 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Thoughts: I think the idea is to have interchangeable safeties who can play box or roamer. What Adams lacks in athleticism he makes up for with pre-snap and instincts; what Davis lacks in pre-snap and instincts he makes up for with elite athleticism.  We can have TWO presidents and completely baffle opposing QBs. 

This

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Thoughts?

Greg Williams will find a way to use him, if he's worth using.

[TnT]

Davis will sub at both safety spots, play additional safety sets, get snaps at nickel corner, possibly outside corner, gunner/kick & punt return coverage, maybe even a little return action.....

good value.
Let’s see where he excels and not get ahead of ourselves.

[FidelioJet]

I doubt he was drafted to replace anyone.  He’s just a very good player that was likely at top of their board.

My guess is you’ll see the three of them on the field together often.  Listening to Douglas yesterday on WFAN - if definitely sounds like they intend to use Davis in  a lot of different ways.

[More Cowbell]

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think Davis has to play the same style as Jamal because I don’t think what Jamal does is sustainable for a 210 lb human, and ramming his face into the LOS is going to wear him down sooner than later. The optimal scenario is that Quinnen Williams starts to deliver a consistent pass rush, and Jenkins and Zuniga combine for 15-20 sacks so we don’t have to keep rushing the strong safety. You’ll have a better, more consistent defense. And when that happens, is it really worth it to pay a strong safety with no ball production if you’re not blitzing him half the time? No. No it is not

I agree with this in general bit Adams doesn't  take on OL when he rushes, if anything it's a TE. 

[Dcat]

56 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So when the Davis pick was made, I read comments from Davis himself and from analysts saying he was best suited and most comfortable as a deep safety, leading me to believe he was Marcus Maye's eventual replacement.

After watching him in action, while he may say he's most comfortable playing deep, he's certianly capable of being a difference maker in a variety of roles much like Jamal is.

Adams is certainly the bigger hitter while in the box, but Davis is plenty capable of playing inside while offering what looks to be far superior coverage against the pass.  Keep in mind, Davis had 7 incterceptions in his final 36 games college games.  Adams has 7 interceptions in his last 82 games between college and pro.

At first I thought the "Davis is Adams' replacement" talk was silly conspiracy stuff.

Looking at how versatile he is while possibly being an upgrade in coverage, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

Thoughts?

It's certainly a new chip in the bank for JD in contract negotiations.  But I think they are done with Maye and are looking for Davis to take over there and he'll be out there as the 5th DB very often as well. 

[More Cowbell]

17 minutes ago, TnT said:

Davis will sub at both safety spots, play additional safety sets, get snaps at nickel corner, possibly outside corner, gunner/kick & punt return coverage, maybe even a little return action.....

good value.
Let’s see where he excels and not get ahead of ourselves.

I think as long as Maye is here, he will be a situational player. We might see a lot of cover 3. 

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think as long as Maye is here, he will be a situational player. We might see a lot of cover 3. 

Absolutely.  Greg Williams is salivating at all the creative things he can do with Minkah, I mean Ashtyn Davis.  I think it was a really good pick.  Caught me off-guard for sure.

[slats]

All we talk about here is Jamal Adams but the reality of the Jets safety position is that Joe Douglas will not be paying both Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye after this season. They already made the move on Adams' fifth year option (the only move to make there), leaving Maye alone in his contract year. 

All options are still on the table. I'd prefer to trade Adams for a first-rounder+, but I'm mostly resigned to the idea of the Jets paying him. But we'll see, because I do not see JD paying Jamal these crazy EDGE-like numbers that get thrown around. The league's top paid safeties are in the $14M/year range. Don't see Douglas going too far north of that. 

Either way, I see Davis as the starting FS in 2021. Either next to a very well paid Adams or a reasonably paid Maye, happy to move to SS. 

[derp]

Maye gets banged up and his contract expires after this season. Who knows what happens with Adams. Safety depth was a short term need and a starting safety is potentially a mid-long term need as well. Davis is going to get snaps in sub packages, projects to start if either guy ahead of him gets hurt, will be a core special teamer, and is set up to step in as a starter next year with a year playing in the system. Plus he walked on at Cal, dude worked for what he accomplished, and is a track athlete.

Think about franchises like the Ravens where Douglas spent most of his time. The Jets periodically sign Ravens linebackers and the Ravens always get a comp pick for it have but instead of drafting one in the first or second to replace him they have another guy just step in on his rookie deal...who the Jets will eventually sign and the Ravens get another comp pick.

You don’t always get immediate starters in rounds 3-5. Goal there is to build depth with guys who can fill short term roles and project to start long-term. Think we’re going to see a lot of this kind of stuff from Douglas who clearly doesn’t want to build the team in FA. The projected roster heading into next offseason already looks dramatically different than last year.

[flgreen]

I don't think Douglas thought "we're getting rid of Adams anyway, might as well get this guy to replace him"  I think they saw a very talented, and diverse DB  and thought that Williams could create a very disruptive role for him.  He's the best S in this draft, a very good CB, and can play close to the LOS.

IMO Douglas intends to let Adams situation/contract play out. If he can sign him for $15M +- a year, great.  If not just let it play out.

 

[Beerfish]

If this guy is any good maye will be out the door sooner than later.

 

[Marshmello]

 

[Dcat]

Just now, Beerfish said:

If this guy is any good maye will be out the door sooner than later.

 

I really like what I have watched on him.  Kid is going to be special. I am starting to gradually accept the fact that the Jets will be known as the "safety" team.  Just change the team song to The Safety Dance.  All set.  

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, flgreen said:

I don't think Douglas thought "we're getting rid of Adams anyway, might as well get this guy to replace him"  I think they saw a very talented, and diverse DB  and thought that Williams could create a very disruptive role for him.  He's the best S in this draft, a very good CB, and can play close to the LOS.

IMO Douglas intends to let Adams situation/contract play out. If he can sign him for $15M +- a year, great.  If not just let it play out.

 

^^^  I see it exactly the same.  Jamal is 24.. play out the year at the current salary and extend with a contract that puts him at the top here making him the highest paid SAFETY (which is what he is) in the NFL and the youngest in the top 10 for sure guaranteeing another pay day down the line, and put this thing to bed for shts' sake. If that means you pay him more for 2020, then fine as long as the cap can take it.  

OTC:

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Eddie Jackson	Bears	27	$58,400,000	$14,600,000	$33,000,000	$22,000,000	2025 UFA
Kevin Byard	Titans	27	$70,500,000	$14,100,000	$30,825,000	$19,625,000	2025 UFA
Tyrann Mathieu	Chiefs	28	$42,000,000	$14,000,000	$26,800,000	$26,800,000	2022 UFA
Landon Collins	Redskins	26	$84,000,000	$14,000,000	$44,500,000	$31,000,000	2025 UFA
Earl Thomas	Ravens	31	$55,000,000	$13,750,000	$32,000,000	$32,000,000	2023 UFA
Devin McCourty	Patriots	33	$23,000,000	$11,500,000	$17,000,000	$13,000,000	2022 Void
Justin Simmons	Broncos	27	$11,441,000	$11,441,000	$11,441,000	$11,441,000	2021 UFA
Anthony Harris	Vikings	28	$11,441,000	$11,441,000	$11,441,000	$11,441,000	2021 UFA
Kareem Jackson	Broncos	32	$33,000,000	$11,000,000	$23,000,000	$23,000,000	2022 UFA
Lamarcus Joyner	Raiders	30	$42,000,000	$10,500,000	$21,300,000	$16,700,000	2023 UFA
Harrison Smith	Vikings	31	$51,250,000	$10,250,000	$28,578,000	$15,278,000	2022 UFA
Jordan Poyer	Bills	29	$19,500,000	$9,750,000	$13,300,000	$8,525,000	2023 UFA
Jimmie Ward	49ers	29	$28,500,000	$9,500,000	$16,500,000	$13,000,000	2023 Void
Adrian Amos	Packers	27	$36,000,000	$9,000,000	$12,000,000	$12,000,000	2023 UFA
Malcolm Jenkins	Saints	33	$32,000,000	$8,000,000	$16,250,000	$16,250,000	2024 UFA
Patrick Chung	Patriots	33	$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000	2022 UFA
Bobby McCain	Dolphins	27	$27,000,000	$6,750,000	$13,000,000	$9,982,000	2023 UFA
Ricardo Allen	Falcons	29	$19,500,000	$6,500,000	$10,914,000	$7,414,000	2022 UFA

[IndianaJet]

1 hour ago, TnT said:

Davis will sub at both safety spots, play additional safety sets, get snaps at nickel corner, possibly outside corner, gunner/kick & punt return coverage, maybe even a little return action.....

good value.
Let’s see where he excels and not get ahead of ourselves.

This.  It's his ability to play deep safety and his ability to do some of what Jamal does that makes him a good pick.

Davis can't do all of what Jamal does at Jamal's level, but he can do some at an effective level.  That gives Williams flexibility in his defensive schemes to cause confusion in the offense.

 

[Alka]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

WTF is this. Why don't  you wait until the guy plays a game before he replaces a two time pro bowl selection  and a first team all pro last season. 

I was just going to post the same thing until I read your post.  Couldn't have said it better myself.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, slats said:

But we'll see, because I do not see JD paying Jamal these crazy EDGE-like numbers that get thrown around. The league's top paid safeties are in the $14M/year range. Don't see Douglas going too far north of that. 

Just from an essentially pragmatic point of view, you’d have to think if Gase and Douglas had to pick two of the three safeties between Davis, Maye, and Adams to move forward with, they’re going to pick the two guys who are quiet, team-first worker bees (who will cost them relative pennies over the next three years) and let the one guy go who openly tried to humiliate them from the floor of the locker room at midseason, who also wants to break the bank. Adams might be the better singular talent, but it’s a Terrell Owens situation where his production probably isn’t worth dealing with the personality. If Jamal Adams was so easily triggered and so insecure that he’d be that disruptive over a phone call from the Cowboys, imagine what he’s like behind the scenes on a daily basis.

[TNJet]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Absolutely.  Greg Williams is salivating at all the creative things he can do with Minkah, I mean Ashtyn Davis.  I think it was a really good pick.  Caught me off-guard for sure.

It will be similar to when Bowles used Brooks as a 3rd safety. It worked well. One of the few things Bowles did successfully.

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I doubt he was drafted to replace anyone.  He’s just a very good player that was likely at top of their board.

My guess is you’ll see the three of them on the field together often.  Listening to Douglas yesterday on WFAN - if definitely sounds like they intend to use Davis in  a lot of different ways.

So we have zero #1 WR’s and we draft just one. And we presumably have 2 starting safeties and yet draft another with a high pick , who for any other team, could step right in, and be a starter. Sounds fishy.

[Wonderboy]

24 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

This.  It's his ability to play deep safety and his ability to do some of what Jamal does that makes him a good pick.

Davis can't do all of what Jamal does at Jamal's level, but he can do some at an effective level.  That gives Williams flexibility in his defensive schemes to cause confusion in the offense.

 

We need to get Davis some intense training before he’s even mentioned on Jamal’s pro bowl level. I mean cmon.

 

[Dcat]

29 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

So we have zero #1 WR’s and we draft just one. And we presumably have 2 starting safeties and yet draft another with a high pick , who for any other team, could step right in, and be a starter. Sounds fishy.

Doesn't seem like JD is done. WRs will shake loose? Ithink that he thinks that Perriman will work out.  Was he in Baltimore when they had Perriman?

[Dcat]

45 minutes ago, TNJet said:

It will be similar to when Bowles used Brooks as a 3rd safety. It worked well. One of the few things Bowles did successfully.

It's a 5 DB NFL more than we admit.  The addition of Minka in Pittsburgh helped turn that defense around last season because when they played 5 DBs they could move Minkah wherever thye wanted and it was succesful.  I'm sure JD noticed that.  And if your team is good at the stops on 1st and 2nd down, you have to be ready and able with a reliable guy as that 5th DB for 3rd down anyway.   

[Sonny Werblin]

Talent-wise it would seem the Jets are better with Davis, Adams and Maye on the field together. Throw in the ability to deceive with Davis being able to be CB, FS, SS or even ILB; Adams at FS, SS, ILB; Maye at FS, SS or CB, you have a recipe to thoroughly confuse opposing QB's. Throw in a LB that can cover (I don't think we have one) and the D personnel in the hands of Gregg Williams would be confusing to even the most grizzled veteran of a QB.

And Yes, Adams can line up and play at FS. It's not his strength but despite the Anti Adams Alignment Pact entered into by some on this board, he can perform the duties of a FS at an above average level even without the ball hawking skills of Ed Reed.

[THE BARON]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

No, I think they should re-sign Jamal.

Thing is, does this move suggest theyre preparing not to?

 

I don't think so.  I don't think this selection was made with getting rid of Maye or Adams in mind.  I think JD saw a lot of value in the player at that draft position.  It is a huge upgrade for depth at that position and it affords them another DB to use in nickel coverage.  For sure, he is not a replacement for Adams.  Adams is a SS that is close to being a small fast LB.  That is the way GW has been smartly using him.  Davis is a pure FS.  A pass coverage guy more like Kerry Rhodes.  Time will tell if Davis will be a better player at the FS position over Maye, but I don't think there were any plans  to can either Maye or Adams... The plan was general improvement dictated by ultimate value 

[AFerg726]

Ashtyn Davis is a true CF Safety prospect. His strengths are different than Adams, who is much better as a disrupter closer to the line. If Davis is going to be replacing anyone, it will be Maye. Most likely, we play more big nickle packages and have all three of them on the field at the same time. 

[NYJets8]

17 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Doesn't seem like JD is done. WRs will shake loose? Ithink that he thinks that Perriman will work out.  Was he in Baltimore when they had Perriman?

Yes, very high on Perriman.