Ashtyn Davis vs Jamal Adams

[flgreen]

How about La'Mical Perine Vs Jamal Adams.......WOW

 

 

[Jetster]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:41 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

Talent-wise it would seem the Jets are better with Davis, Adams and Maye on the field together. Throw in the ability to deceive with Davis being able to be CB, FS, SS or even ILB; Adams at FS, SS, ILB; Maye at FS, SS or CB, you have a recipe to thoroughly confuse opposing QB's. Throw in a LB that can cover (I don't think we have one) and the D personnel in the hands of Gregg Williams would be confusing to even the most grizzled veteran of a QB.

And Yes, Adams can line up and play at FS. It's not his strength but despite the Anti Adams Alignment Pact entered into by some on this board, he can perform the duties of a FS at an above average level even without the ball hawking skills of Ed Reed.

Mosely can’t cover? The dude knocked away a pass 35 yards down the seam of the field In the end zone when got injured. That sh*t was IMPRESSIVE! Bart Scott would have trying to catch up with his clown feet from the 15 yard line!

[TheMo]

On 5/1/2020 at 8:33 AM, More Cowbell said:

WTF is this. Why don't  you wait until the guy plays a game before he replaces a two time pro bowl selection  and a first team all pro last season. 

I think I can speak with some level of authority given that this side of @T0mShane I have been one of the most vocal advocates for moving Jamal Adams. The gymnastics that people are going through to devalue him is asinine. He's an excellent player and comparing him to Davis is ridiculous both with regards to Adams and Davis (talk about way too high expectations). Couldn't agree more with @More Cowbell here. 

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Mosely can’t cover? The dude knocked away a pass 35 yards down the seam of the field In the end zone when got injured. That sh*t was IMPRESSIVE! Bart Scott would have trying to catch up with his clown feet from the 15 yard line!

The BIG complaint about Mosley in Baltimore was his mediocre pass coverage.   Not a strength, so we've been told.  But he didn't have Greg Williams getting the most out of him.  That was a pretty play indeed.  I'd like to see what Greg Williams can do with him moving forward.    

[Dcat]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:00 PM, Larz said:

Adams is fantastic in coverage. 

No he is not.

[roscoeword]

take away the noise and the twitter tweets, Maye is as valuable as Adams  - if he can stay on the field. He won that game vs Dallas .. broke up the pass at the end.. When did Adams win a game for us? Not hating on Adams, just saying, I'm sorry to see Maye go.

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

i'm not sure - he had an inscrutable username and his mic went in and out. 

but he also called the CB Bryce Hall pick dead nuts accurate - 2 rounds before it happened 

he had an advanced understanding of Gase's offense and what sort of WR fit that offense 

to paraphrase this dude (I believe he was a WR coach of some-kind):

Gregg Williams' Defense is not like Bowles Man2Man it's actually a Cover 2 with CBs ballhawking in space, Jamal/SS brought low and a single high FS 18-20 yards behind the LOS. That dude stands flat footed at the snap and has to cover a 100 acres of ground back there 

prior to the Davis pick THE JETS DID NOT HAVE THIS PLAYER

not a single guy on the roster who could run that FS spot. No, not one. 

this is why when Gregg Williams finally got a pick in the 3rd round for defense, it was his more dire need. Maybe even worse than Edge rusher. 

those who remember 2019 defense at certain points Darryl Roberts was back there, it's a position requiring CB speed and deep FS football IQ. 

 

TL;DR Ashtyn Davis pick could transform the Jets' defense in coverage. 

 

Not too shabby.  I wish my memory could recall so specifically. I know it sounds weird, but it was like a moment of enlightenment.  

[TheMo]

On 5/1/2020 at 12:29 PM, jetstream23 said:

And a 9,865 word reply coming from @Defense Wins Championships in 3......2......

Nah nah man he's at the corner store having a polite disagreement with the man at the counter... 

[jetstream23]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:00 PM, Larz said:

Adams is fantastic in coverage. It’s absurd to suggest some rookie is far superior based on 3 highlights from college. 
 

 

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

No he is not.

 

He absolutely is.

 

 

And not just in 2019 either.  He was raging in 2018 as well...

 

 

 

 

 

[More Cowbell]

11 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The BIG complaint about Mosley in Baltimore was his mediocre pass coverage.   Not a strength, so we've been told.  But he didn't have Greg Williams getting the most out of him.  That was a pretty play indeed.  I'd like to see what Greg Williams can do with him moving forward.    

Is this the pick 6 in thevBills game ypu are referring  to? Becaise that was a great job of reading the QB.

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

 

He absolutely is.

 

 

And not just in 2019 either.  He was raging in 2018 as well...

 

 

 

 

Not even good on a consistent basis, let alone great, in coverage. 

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Is this the pick 6 in thevBills game ypu are referring  to? Becaise that was a great job of reading the QB.

Love that play.  I'd venture a guess that Greg Williams can do more with Mosley than the Ravens did. WHich was a lot.

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Not even good on a consistent basis, let alone great, in coverage. 

 

YPT (Yards per Target) is one of the best metrics for measuring coverage IMO.  And 4.5 is great. It's heavily influenced by two things:

1. Ability to force incompletions / passes defensed (which adds a 0 to the numerator every time)

2. Ability to limit any run after the catch, essentially tackling.  While many completions see WRs or TEs run for another 5-10 yards the ability to keep a 6 yard pass into the hands of a TE as only a 6 yard completion with an immediate tackle is valuable.

I'm far from an Adams rah-rah guy but he's been excellent in coverage.

[flgreen]

14 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Nah nah man he's at the corner store having a polite disagreement with the man at the counter... 

I heard his Grand Ma was knitting him another Dolphins jersey.  The ole one wore out

[Jetster]

32 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The BIG complaint about Mosley in Baltimore was his mediocre pass coverage.   Not a strength, so we've been told.  But he didn't have Greg Williams getting the most out of him.  That was a pretty play indeed.  I'd like to see what Greg Williams can do with him moving forward.    

This safety trio is no joke. GW won’t have to worry covering for whatever role he wants to put CJ Mosely in. Our Dline is FANTASTIC at stopping the run #2 in the entire league & will be even more experienced in 2020 & Quinnen Williams should take his play up a notch. 
GW is going to have both Adams & Mosely as chess PCs like the Queen to blow up all kinds of plays. Add 1 pass rusher out of Zuniga, Huff, or Basham, or rotation of them all to keep them fresh & this is why I’m so excited about the potential of this defense. Even Poole & Davis could be interchangeable blitzers? 
Going to be very interesting if they sign a guy like Griffin & add him to this group. 

[Bungaman]

8 minutes ago, Jetster said:

This safety trio is no joke. GW won’t have to worry covering for whatever role he wants to put CJ Mosely in. Our Dline is FANTASTIC at stopping the run #2 in the entire league & will be even more experienced in 2020 & Quinnen Williams should take his play up a notch. 
GW is going to have both Adams & Mosely as chess PCs like the Queen to blow up all kinds of plays. Add 1 pass rusher out of Zuniga, Huff, or Basham, or rotation of them all to keep them fresh & this is why I’m so excited about the potential of this defense. Even Poole & Davis could be interchangeable blitzers? 
Going to be very interesting if they sign a guy like Griffin & add him to this group. 

Pressure is going to come from anywhere at any time, out of any formation. GW's going to have the the opposing QB's and OL's heads spinning trying to get protections straight. If the whole D is fast, a "designated" rusher isn't necessary, and might be a strategic weakness. Note the the edge guys - Zuniga and the kid from the Ravens - are fast AND can play the run: so there's no giveaways as to the plan for the offence to key on. Poole can blitz. Adams can blitz.  It will be coming - from somewhere.  

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Mosely can’t cover? The dude knocked away a pass 35 yards down the seam of the field In the end zone when got injured. That sh*t was IMPRESSIVE! Bart Scott would have trying to catch up with his clown feet from the 15 yard line!

Yep. I remember being very impressed by that play at the time. The dude he was covering wasn’t some plodding TE either. Quickly became the worst play of the season.

[32EBoozer]

41 minutes ago, Jetster said:

This safety trio is no joke. GW won’t have to worry covering for whatever role he wants to put CJ Mosely in. Our Dline is FANTASTIC at stopping the run #2 in the entire league & will be even more experienced in 2020 & Quinnen Williams should take his play up a notch. 
GW is going to have both Adams & Mosely as chess PCs like the Queen to blow up all kinds of plays. Add 1 pass rusher out of Zuniga, Huff, or Basham, or rotation of them all to keep them fresh & this is why I’m so excited about the potential of this defense. Even Poole & Davis could be interchangeable blitzers? 
Going to be very interesting if they sign a guy like Griffin & add him to this group. 

Really hoping that QW can bring the pressure up the middle like he did at Bama.

Forces the QB back further in the pocket lessening the angle from the edge. Less bend required for our speed guys off the edge. Physics 101

[Larz]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

 

He absolutely is.

 

 

And not just in 2019 either.  He was raging in 2018 as well...

 

 

 

 

 

[Sonny Werblin]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

Mosely can’t cover? The dude knocked away a pass 35 yards down the seam of the field In the end zone when got injured. That sh*t was IMPRESSIVE! Bart Scott would have trying to catch up with his clown feet from the 15 yard line!

The 60% pass completion on targets to guys he is covering leads me to conclude the opposing O would looks favorably on the concept of CJ in coverage.

[Dcat]

39 minutes ago, Larz said:

How foolish to brag about relying on PFF of all things.  It's like slam-dunking yourself.  Let's hope Jamal can continue to improve (yes he improved last year) on getting to the play on time in coverage.  He's coming along.   

[SOJ]

On 5/1/2020 at 6:05 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

He's so fantastic in coverage that Gregg Williams took him out of traditional 2-deep and M2M coverage and used him primarily as a pass rusher and ILB.  

Agree, Adams gets beat often and takes poor angles a lot of times.  

[Larz]

58 minutes ago, Dcat said:

How foolish to brag about relying on PFF of all things.  It's like slam-dunking yourself.  Let's hope Jamal can continue to improve (yes he improved last year) on getting to the play on time in coverage.  He's coming along.   

What’s after 1st team all pro? MVP?

[Larz]

On 5/1/2020 at 9:05 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

He's so fantastic in coverage that Gregg Williams took him out of traditional 2-deep and M2M coverage and used him primarily as a pass rusher and ILB.  

Why do you leave out the fact that 2 well respected DCs both played Adams in the slot and at outside corner?

You don’t have to like the guy to respect his game 

he never plays ILB

 

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

 

He absolutely is.

 

 

And not just in 2019 either.  He was raging in 2018 as well...

 

 

 

 

 

What PFF fails to tell you there is the context of those numbers. They say he’s great in coverage! Holds QBs to this infinitesimal completion percentage! Holds them to this puny ypc! But they leave out that he had a measly 7 PDs, and the ypc is small because he’s covering people five yards off the LOS like a linebacker. Someone who has PFF Premium can produce the stat that shows how often Adams is in man to man, but iirc it was some minuscule figure like 14% of his snaps, which, I’d bet is less than Jordan Jenkins is in man to man.

[New York Mick]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

 

He absolutely is.

 

 

And not just in 2019 either.  He was raging in 2018 as well...

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t get why fans think he’s so bad in coverage. He’s pretty much good at everything. 

[Losmeister]

14 hours ago, Jetster said:

This safety trio is no joke. GW won’t have to worry covering for whatever role he wants to put CJ Mosely in. Our Dline is FANTASTIC at stopping the run #2 in the entire league & will be even more experienced in 2020 & Quinnen Williams should take his play up a notch. 
GW is going to have both Adams & Mosely as chess PCs like the Queen to blow up all kinds of plays. Add 1 pass rusher out of Zuniga, Huff, or Basham, or rotation of them all to keep them fresh & this is why I’m so excited about the potential of this defense. Even Poole & Davis could be interchangeable blitzers? 
Going to be very interesting if they sign a guy like Griffin & add him to this group. 

 

14 hours ago, Bungaman said:

Pressure is going to come from anywhere at any time, out of any formation. GW's going to have the the opposing QB's and OL's heads spinning trying to get protections straight. If the whole D is fast, a "designated" rusher isn't necessary, and might be a strategic weakness. Note the the edge guys - Zuniga and the kid from the Ravens - are fast AND can play the run: so there's no giveaways as to the plan for the offence to key on. Poole can blitz. Adams can blitz.  It will be coming - from somewhere.  

serious chicken counting...

 

[Scoop24]

The people that always try call Jamal terrible coverage can never post stats that support there claim .  Can’t even find a reciever or TE that Jamal Gave up 100 yards too.

[Jetster]

39 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

The people that always try call Jamal terrible coverage can never post stats that support there claim .  Can’t even find a reciever or TE that Jamal Gave up 100 yards too.

He didn't have Mosely out there either. The entire Jets LB group got injured last year & Jamal was playing with a lot of inexperienced guys. 

Everyone stays healthy & does their job, it will allow Adams to really be disruptive. Domino theory on Defense. Offenses spend entire week figuring out ways to exploit defensive weaknesses. But players like Adams, Mosely, and let's hope Quinnen change those best laid plans. 

[Scoop24]

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

The people that always try call Jamal terrible coverage can never post stats that support there claim .  Can’t even find a reciever or TE that Jamal Gave up 100 yards too.

You would actually have to be in coverage on a player in order to give up yardage to that player. Instead, we get Jordan Jenkins covering Mike Gesicki thirty yards downfield

[Scoop24]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You would actually have to be in coverage on a player in order to give up yardage to that player. Instead, we get Jordan Jenkins covering Mike Gesicki thirty yards downfield

He played over 500 snaps in coverage last year. Try again 

[jmat321]

In terms of his difficulty in coverage, I think what posters are referring to is that he has difficulty in man to man coverage down the seam.  That’s something that stood out to me his rookie year.  Possible last season that Williams didn’t make him do that as much?  You’d have to watch more tape.  

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You would actually have to be in coverage on a player in order to give up yardage to that player. Instead, we get Jordan Jenkins covering Mike Gesicki thirty yards downfield

GW does not want Jamal in coverage.  Let jamal be Jamal, let him prowl like a LB where he is best.  We now have Davis for the coverage side.  Maybe all 3 if Maye stays the year and that would be a good look I think.  Keep Maye for 2020 and maybe get a 2022 comp for him. It's probaby wise to keep Maye around for Davis' rookie season and then let him go UFA.  No way do both Jamal and Maye get 2nd contracts.   

[Wonderboy]

On 5/1/2020 at 9:25 AM, slats said:

All we talk about here is Jamal Adams but the reality of the Jets safety position is that Joe Douglas will not be paying both Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye after this season. They already made the move on Adams' fifth year option (the only move to make there), leaving Maye alone in his contract year. 

All options are still on the table. I'd prefer to trade Adams for a first-rounder+, but I'm mostly resigned to the idea of the Jets paying him. But we'll see, because I do not see JD paying Jamal these crazy EDGE-like numbers that get thrown around. The league's top paid safeties are in the $14M/year range. Don't see Douglas going too far north of that. 

Either way, I see Davis as the starting FS in 2021. Either next to a very well paid Adams or a reasonably paid Maye, happy to move to SS. 

Maye makes squat about 2M a year. Peanuts for a player whose production has been good. Even if he’s retained, which he won’t, his price tag would be more than reasonable. Davis is his replacement.That’s set in stone already. JD needs Game changers and there’s only so much money to around. Last time I checked, a dominant defense creates turn overs. Allocating 15M per year to a SS that produces 1 turnover a year isn’t exactly mind bending.