Is Darnold the Best QB to come out in the Last 3 years?

[hamat711]

22 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

How many games has Jackson missed due to injuries? 0

How many games has Darnold missed due to injuries? 3

How many games has Wilson missed due to injuries? 0

 

Projecting career changing injuries is dumb. For all you know, by the time Lamar loses his athleticism, Darnold could already be out the league.

You know how many QBs missed a game rushing last year? 1 and it was Patrick Mahomes on a QB sneak.

 

Do you know how many QBs got injured passing last year? 5 - Brees, Big Ben, Stafford, Trubisky and Foles.

[Barry McCockinner]

32 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

How many games has Jackson missed due to injuries? 0

How many games has Darnold missed due to injuries? 3

How many games has Wilson missed due to injuries? 0

 

Projecting career changing injuries is dumb. For all you know, by the time Lamar loses his athleticism, Darnold could already be out the league.

You know how many QBs missed a game rushing last year? 1 and it was Patrick Mahomes on a QB sneak.

 

Do you know how many QBs got injured passing last year? 5 - Brees, Big Ben, Stafford, Trubisky and Foles.

I agree - did you read the post I quoted though? He's literally projecting fewer injuries because of some bs about absorbing the force of the hits throughout his body or something. lmao

[Melly-Mel]

Imo he has all the potential in the world, and hopefully with the new line and playmakers he will start making larger jumps with his talent and settle in as one of the best qbs in the league.  I see the potential, and hope he puts it all together!

[hamat711]

56 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

When you saddle him with one of the worst OC's in the NFL and absolutely no offensive line... is it right to have any expectations for him other than failure?  Lamar was given John Harbaugh to play for and the best organization in the NFL.  What is Darnold supposed to do with no help?  The last time he had any he won a Rose Bowl.  Kind of makes a difference.

Again, don't tell me what he can do. What has he done?

When has Darnold elevated the players around him? Honestly, is it the team holding him back, or is he part of the problem?

 

The Ravens offense was bad with Joe Flacco and their rushing attack was one of the worst in the league. As soon as Lamar became the starer with his unique skill set, they turned into the 2nd best rushing offense. The next year, they become the best rushing offense ever.

 

You wanna hear the hard truth? Mitch Trubisky has favorable stats to Sam Darnold in their first two years.

Mitch Trubisky in his first 26 games produced 6085 yards, 36 TDs and 25 Turnovers and completes 63% of his passes

Sam Darnold in his first 26 games produced 6089 yards, 39 TDs and 33 Turnvoers and completes 59% of his passes

 

Mitch just had his 5th year option declined and they started looking for his replacement after year 3.

If Darnold does not take progress this year in spite of Gase, he might suffer the same fate. If Darnold doesn't start to make the team around him better, he might be a free agent by the time he has an ideal scenario.

 

It's time for Darnold to start playing like the 3rd overall pick in the draft and not like all the other Jets picks who were the best player in the draft that luckily feel to the Jets and failed to meet expectations.

[Jetsfan4life90]

28 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Again, don't tell me what he can do. What has he done?

When has Darnold elevated the players around him? Honestly, is it the team holding him back, or is he part of the problem?

 

The Ravens offense was bad with Joe Flacco and their rushing attack was one of the worst in the league. As soon as Lamar became the starer with his unique skill set, they turned into the 2nd best rushing offense. The next year, they become the best rushing offense ever.

 

You wanna hear the hard truth? Mitch Trubisky has favorable stats to Sam Darnold in their first two years.

Mitch Trubisky in his first 26 games produced 6085 yards, 36 TDs and 25 Turnovers and completes 63% of his passes

Sam Darnold in his first 26 games produced 6089 yards, 39 TDs and 33 Turnvoers and completes 59% of his passes

 

Mitch just had his 5th year option declined and they started looking for his replacement after year 3.

If Darnold does not take progress this year in spite of Gase, he might suffer the same fate. If Darnold doesn't start to make the team around him better, he might be a free agent by the time he has an ideal scenario.

 

It's time for Darnold to start playing like the 3rd overall pick in the draft and not like all the other Jets picks who were the best player in the draft that luckily feel to the Jets and failed to meet expectations.

The only problem is the talent level of those teams couldn't be more different. Trubisky has had more talent to work with than Darnold. 

[pdxgreen]

29 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Again, don't tell me what he can do. What has he done?

When has Darnold elevated the players around him? Honestly, is it the team holding him back, or is he part of the problem?

 

The Ravens offense was bad with Joe Flacco and their rushing attack was one of the worst in the league. As soon as Lamar became the starer with his unique skill set, they turned into the 2nd best rushing offense. The next year, they become the best rushing offense ever.

 

You wanna hear the hard truth? Mitch Trubisky has favorable stats to Sam Darnold in their first two years.

Mitch Trubisky in his first 26 games produced 6085 yards, 36 TDs and 25 Turnovers and completes 63% of his passes

Sam Darnold in his first 26 games produced 6089 yards, 39 TDs and 33 Turnvoers and completes 59% of his passes

 

Mitch just had his 5th year option declined and they started looking for his replacement after year 3.

If Darnold does not take progress this year in spite of Gase, he might suffer the same fate. If Darnold doesn't start to make the team around him better, he might be a free agent by the time he has an ideal scenario.

 

It's time for Darnold to start playing like the 3rd overall pick in the draft and not like all the other Jets picks who were the best player in the draft that luckily feel to the Jets and failed to meet expectations.

Dude.  You watched Mitch Trubisky play and you're comparing him to Sam Darnold?  Man.  Booger's commentary during the Pats game must have gotten you thinking.

[hamat711]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

The only problem is the talent level of those teams couldn't be more different. Trubisky has had more talent to work with than Darnold. 

Who was Mitch throwing to his rookie year? Kendall Wright and Josh Bellamy. 

They got Allen Robinson in his 2nd year, but he isn't a world beater either. Arob was great in 2015 but hasn't been special since. He also had Tarik Cohen + Jordan Howard, but Bell is still better than those two.

The weapons aren't that different.

[Skeet Ulrich]

No.

 

[hamat711]

14 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Dude.  You watched Mitch Trubisky play and you're comparing him to Sam Darnold?  Man.  Booger's commentary during the Pats game must have gotten you thinking.

Why isn't it fair to compare them?

They might have different styles since Mitch is more likely to use his mobility, but it amounts to the same thing. They are both wildly inconsistent. 

Both are low volume passers, who will have great performances at random times. They struggle to move the offense on a consistent basis. 

 

The only difference between the two is expectations. 

Mitch was expected to lead an elite defense to a possible superbowl and Darnold wasn't.

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Again, don't tell me what he can do. What has he done?

When has Darnold elevated the players around him? Honestly, is it the team holding him back, or is he part of the problem?

 

 

Ummmmmm did you see the games in which Darnold wasn't in last year?

Yea, don't say silly stuff.  The Jets weren't a NFL professional team when he was out!

You can argue that Darnold isn't going to be Great but please don't say he doesn't elevate the team after the crap we had to endure last year. 

[jeremy2020]

Let's get him to be in the top 20 before we start projecting him as the greatest

[JohnnyLV]

5 hours ago, New York Mick said:

1. Jackson - for now

2. Allen - for now

3a - Mayfield 

3b - Darnold 

Jackson and Allen are both better then Darnold at this moment but probably won’t be in a few years. Darnold and Mayfield look like they could be the best two out of this draft but they need to prove it. 

In no way shape or form is Josh Allen better than Darnold.  Except for running. He is a bottom 5 QB as an actual passer. He's awful.

[14 in Green]

22 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ummmmmm did you see the games in which Darnold wasn't in last year?

Yea, don't say silly stuff.  The Jets weren't a NFL professional team when he was out!

You can argue that Darnold isn't going to be Great but please don't say he doesn't elevate the team after the crap we had to endure last year. 

The guy who replaced him was a 4th round pick(?) plucked from the practice squad and thrown to the wolves against 3 good teams. Siemian played what? One quarter before he was hurt?

Gase never gave Falk a chance. He never adjusted the game plan for him, and never gave him reps with the first team. Darnold still got those, in the hope he’d be able to play.

 The way the offense performed when Darnold had mono, or when the 40 year old career backup McCown filled in when Sam was benched in ‘18 says nothing about how good/ bad Darnold was or is.

And yet we do it all the time here.

[Jetstimeisnow]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

The guy who replaced him was a 4th round pick(?) plucked from the practice squad. Siemian played what? One quarter before he was hurt?

Gase never gave Falk a chance. He never adjusted the game plan for him, and never gave him reps with the first team. Darnold still got those, in the hope he’d be able to play.

 The way the offense performed when Darnold had mono, or when the 40 year old career backup McCown filled in when Sam was benched in ‘18 says nothing about how good/ bad Darnold was or is.

And yet we do it all the time here.

Dude, don’t you have better things to do as a giants fan than troll a jets message board?

[New York Mick]

22 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

In no way shape or form is Josh Allen better than Darnold.  Except for running. He is a bottom 5 QB as an actual passer. He's awful.

Last year 

Allen - 20 TDs, 9 ints, 500+ rushing 9 TDs. 47 career TDs 21 ints, 1100+ rushing

Darnold - 19 TDs, 13 ints. 39 career TDs, 28 ints 

Allen has more TDs, more rushing yards and less INTs before you bring up he played more games the Darnold I know and he still had less ints. 
 

At this moment Allen is better then Darnold. 

[Anthony Jet]

It’s so hard to answer now. Because every opinion is biased. But from 2015 to 2020 I would love to see the QBs ranked as prospects ( based just on there college career nothing else). 

[Prez33]

All the statistics aside, my eyeballs tell me I’m glad Sam’s our QB. He’s a legit starting QB. I’m not going into bold predictions. There’s still a lot of speculation as to who will be the best. 
 

I love Darnold. He’s going to be great if he keeps getting more support around him. 

[JohnnyLV]

22 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Last year 

Allen - 20 TDs, 9 ints, 500+ rushing 9 TDs. 47 career TDs 21 ints, 1100+ rushing

Darnold - 19 TDs, 13 ints. 39 career TDs, 28 ints 

Allen has more TDs, more rushing yards and less INTs before you bring up he played more games the Darnold I know and he still had less ints. 
 

At this moment Allen is better then Darnold. 

No he's not. He was on a much better team and if you actually watch him play he is awful. Statistics do not tell the story between these 2. Would you trade Sam for Josh?

[Charlie Brown]

28 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

The guy who replaced him was a 4th round pick(?) plucked from the practice squad and thrown to the wolves against 3 good teams. Siemian played what? One quarter before he was hurt?

Gase never gave Falk a chance. He never adjusted the game plan for him, and never gave him reps with the first team. Darnold still got those, in the hope he’d be able to play.

 The way the offense performed when Darnold had mono, or when the 40 year old career backup McCown filled in when Sam was benched in ‘18 says nothing about how good/ bad Darnold was or is.

And yet we do it all the time here.

I disagree, I think it does matter that Darnold could take the worst OL, and skill players combo in the entire NFL and win 7 games and appear to have a competent running offense under his comand.

Indeed, others who had far more talent last year did far less than Darnold did, but as I said elsewhere Darnold has to prove it on the field going forward and I for one am not putting Darnold in Canton just yet..........

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Statistically speaking Darnold has been a bottom 10 QB in the league 2 years in a row.

 

Until he proves otherwise, that's what he is. You can throw out all the excuses you want and that's fine but it doesnt change his performance to this point.

 

I hope he takes a huge leap in year 3 and shuts up all doubters. But we shall see. I'm not sold on him either way as of yet and if he doesnt take a leap in year 3 then it's time to discuss whether he is the franchise QB. 

[14 in Green]

10 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I disagree, I think it does matter that Darnold could take the worst OL, and skill players combo in the entire NFL and win 7 games and appear to have a competent running offense under his comand.

indeed, others who had far more talent last year did far less than Darnold did, but as I said elsewhere Darnold has to prove it on the field going forward and I for one am not putting Darnold in Canton just yet..........

You’re very level headed.when discussing the team, and I guess we can agree to disagree.

I see your point, but let’s  remember that the the schedule Darnold faced when he came back from mono was probably the easiest stretch he’ll probably ever face in his career. Still, a 7-5 finish was pretty good.

We won’t get into how much Greg Williams’ defense helped with that though, because like you said, the offense was competent over that stretch.

 

[hamat711]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ummmmmm did you see the games in which Darnold wasn't in last year?

Yea, don't say silly stuff.  The Jets weren't a NFL professional team when he was out!

You can argue that Darnold isn't going to be Great but please don't say he doesn't elevate the team after the crap we had to endure last year. 

Yes I did. You were the worst offense in the NFL without him and still bottom 5 with him.

To be fair, I think Gase deserves most of the blame, but what happens if the offense is bad again because of Gase? 

If the offense is stagnant again under Gase, there is a good chance Gase will be fired unless the Jets have a winning record.

If the offense is stagnant for 3 years straight under Darnold, why would the new Head Coach want his future tied to him? He will atleast bring in some competition.

 

I know I assumed a lot, but it isn't far fetched either. At this point, Darnold needs to play well in spite of Gase.

[hamat711]

21 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

No he's not. He was on a much better team and if you actually watch him play he is awful. Statistics do not tell the story between these 2. Would you trade Sam for Josh?

You do know you can run the same exercise in 2018 and the same thing applies?

Allen's offense in 2018 was worse than Darnolds in 2018.

[Patriot Killa]

3 hours ago, hamat711 said:

When has Darnold elevated the players around him? Honestly, is it the team holding him back, or is he part of the problem?

He has elevated them a lot. Texans, Green Bay, Dallas, Oakland, Detroit...list goes on. He had 4 fourth quarter comebacks and 4 game winning drives last year.

[New York Mick]

52 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

No he's not. He was on a much better team and if you actually watch him play he is awful. Statistics do not tell the story between these 2. Would you trade Sam for Josh?

I’ve seen him play. They’re both on the same level. 
No, I also wouldn’t trade him for  Jackson either. I think Sam will be better then both in the long run but right now he’s not. 

[Web72]

IDK. I really don’t care what mainstream media think. But I think he’s the best QB we’ve ever had 

[Irish Jet]

Sam is still very flawed. His footwork is all over the place at times and he relies on his arm talent to make plays. He doesn't look like he's been well coached at any level of his career. 

That said he's 22. Been through two systems in as many seasons and has missed time in both seasons (the time missed in the first season was to his benefit). The horrific situation is well known and he's had to perform in spite of that. The comparisons to Allen and Murray are just nonsensical in this regard. Neither are being asked to absolutely carry the offence in the way Sam is and both have top 10 rushing attacks and a much better line. It's impossible to say how they'd be doing in alternative scenario's so it's a pointless task. 

I'm not so much looking for a breakout 30 TD season as I am looking for demonstrable improvement. He needs to set his feet more and step into throws. He has excuses and will likely have them again but if he's at least doing the right things you can be encouraged going forward. A lot of the ugly mistakes are his own making - These need to be reduced.

I'd be hoping for the TD:INT ration to be around 2:1 and to get his YPA to around 7.5 but more than that I just want to see the calamitous sh*t gone from him game. 

[RJIII]

Uh, NO!

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

I think he's had the most thrown at him at the youngest age.  Jackson got to sit a year.  Baker got a better supporting cast.  Darnold probably is the best QB if he realizes his potential though.  

Jackson didn't sit for a year. He sat for half a year, and he didn't fully sit -- he was part of the offense's ground gameplan right from the start, wearing a helmet; not just holding a clipboard and wearing an earphone wire, with no responsibilities beyond absorbing what he saw as though he worked for the TV crew.

It's also at best debatable whether a player matures faster by watching from the sideline. Some of the game's best QBs ever have repeatedly said they needed to take their lumps and not just watch someone else play instead. If there was some widespread agreement that starting a rookie QB right away led to worse results, then no one would do it.

All that ignores the obvious: Darnold was drafted FAR higher precisely because he was considered a day 1 starter -- never mind that he wasn't anywhere near as raw a prospect/project as Jackson. Ergo had the Jets somehow wanted Jackson instead they could have traded wayyyy down from #6 instead of moving up to #3, to pick up not just Jackson but also an extra 1st round pick, another day 2 pick, and possibly even more; all that on top of keeping their three 2nd rounders. The expectation was that the day 1 starter Darnold would come into his own far faster than Jackson, regardless of which had the higher theoretical ceiling or which would ultimately have the better career. FFS multiple teams felt Jackson should have outright moved to another position instead of wasting his immense talent at a QB position they believed he'd never be able to master (beyond maybe a gadget play here & there).

Basically, Darnold's badge of courage is only worth something if he eventually turns out as good as (or nearly as good as) Jackson has already been by age 22: a 1200-yard (and 7 TD) rusher who simultaneously led the league in TD passes? That doesn't just happen because of better coaching or a strong supporting cast (their receiving corps has hardly been the envy of the league; we'd be citing it as a hardship), let alone because he wasn't the starter until game 10 as a rookie. And on the flip side, for all that was "thrown at him" (at the same age: 21) Darnold never had serious pressure of getting yanked for poor performance because there was just him and McMentor, and further because the team wasn't a contender so there were no expectations, and Jets land was so excited to have him they'd forgive even a 20+ turnover rookie season and piled up losses so long as they saw improvement. In that regard, and because of so many doubters he was really a QB at all, Jackson was under far more pressure and a much bigger microscope.

Darnold is expected to take a major step forward this year, and make everyone else better not have excuses why everyone else didn't make him look better. Personally I think he will take that big leap forward. However if he's only marginally better then he'll have been a huge disappointment relative to his immense draft day cost and expectations of elite production, because a big part of that expectation was that it wouldn't take until season 4+ for him to start playing like an elite QB.

If you read all this you win a cookie.

[pdxgreen]

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Jackson didn't sit for a year. He sat for half a year, and he didn't fully sit -- he was part of the offense's ground gameplan right from the start, wearing a helmet; not just holding a clipboard and wearing an earphone wire, with no responsibilities beyond absorbing what he saw as though he worked for the TV crew.

It's also at best debatable whether a player matures faster by watching from the sideline. Some of the game's best QBs ever have repeatedly said they needed to take their lumps and not just watch someone else play instead. If there was some widespread agreement that starting a rookie QB right away led to worse results, then no one would do it.

All that ignores the obvious: Darnold was drafted FAR higher precisely because he was considered a day 1 starter -- never mind that he wasn't anywhere near as raw a prospect/project as Jackson. Ergo had the Jets somehow wanted Jackson instead they could have traded wayyyy down from #6 instead of moving up to #3, to pick up not just Jackson but also an extra 1st round pick, another day 2 pick, and possibly even more; all that on top of keeping their three 2nd rounders. The expectation was that the day 1 starter Darnold would come into his own far faster than Jackson, regardless of which had the higher theoretical ceiling or which would ultimately have the better career. FFS multiple teams felt Jackson should have outright moved to another position instead of wasting his immense talent at a QB position they believed he'd never be able to master (beyond maybe a gadget play here & there).

Basically, Darnold's badge of courage is only worth something if he eventually turns out as good as (or nearly as good as) Jackson has already been by age 22: a 1200-yard (and 7 TD) rusher who simultaneously led the league in TD passes? That doesn't just happen because of better coaching or a strong supporting cast (their receiving corps has hardly been the envy of the league; we'd be citing it as a hardship), let alone because he wasn't the starter until game 10 as a rookie. And on the flip side, for all that was "thrown at him" (at the same age: 21) Darnold never had serious pressure of getting yanked for poor performance because there was just him and McMentor, and further because the team wasn't a contender so there were no expectations, and Jets land was so excited to have him they'd forgive even a 20+ turnover rookie season and piled up losses so long as they saw improvement. In that regard, and because of so many doubters he was really a QB at all, Jackson was under far more pressure and a much bigger microscope.

Darnold is expected to take a major step forward this year, and make everyone else better not have excuses why everyone else didn't make him look better. Personally I think he will take that big leap forward. However if he's only marginally better then he'll have been a huge disappointment relative to his immense draft day cost and expectations of elite production, because a big part of that expectation was that it wouldn't take until season 4+ for him to start playing like an elite QB.

If you read all this you win a cookie.

No.  I didn't read any of it.  Just the bit about the cookie.  But if a three sentence opinion of mine can make you that upset (while completely disregarding the comments of every other single person who replied to this thread) then I am glad.  I am definately helping increase site traffic.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

No.  I didn't read any of it.  Just the bit about the cookie.  But if a three sentence opinion of mine can make you that upset (while completely disregarding the comments of every other single person who replied to this thread) then I am glad.  I am definately helping increase site traffic.

LOL

I'm not upset, and that's not what the post is about. It's just I'm one of those who love the sound of my own voice. Or in this case, my own keyboard.

Also no cookie.

[pdxgreen]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

LOL

I'm not upset. I'm one of those who love the sound of my own voice. Or in this case, my own keyboard.

Also no cookie.

Ahhhh.  You write fan fiction then!

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Ahhhh.  You write fan fiction then!

Every word of everything I've written is nonfiction. Yet amazingly, it's also art. A thing of beauty for the world to behold.

[pdxgreen]

12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Every word of everything I've written is nonfiction. Yet amazingly, it's also art. A thing of beauty for the world to behold.

Oh brother.  This is my old Memoirs Workshop class all over again. 

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Ahhhh.  You write fan fiction then!

Fan Fiction:  Darnold is the best QB today.

No slight to OP C.B., who I like, but these Homer Threads seems to simply exist so the homers can identify and spam NegRep those who like facts, numbers and performance metrics over "potential" or some homerific gut feeling projection that guy X is just about be be Montana or Favre reborn. 

There is no debate anywhere outside the homer contingent of this fanbase about Darnold being the best QB, in any form, today.  Because so far, 2 years in, he's not, and it's not really close.  

I have hope for Darnold.  He has the tools, I still like his potential myself.  He can do it, in my mind, he can be a top-half of the league type guy, if he works very hard and corrects some serious issues (accuracy and turnovers to start) and doesn't miss time.