With Enunwa gone

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I didn’t say I don’t find the group better. A lot depends on Mims. It’s certainly a less proven group with more potential overall.

Anyone banking on Perriman’s last 6 games of 2019 being the norm in this offence is likely going to be disappointed. 

I wouldn't  bet on Mims having an impsct this season. The guy will get zero respect from the zebras and he is going to be raped by every db he is opposed by. We see it all the time. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

aka black Tony Gonzalez

??????

Who has said this?

Ever?

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Aaron Hernandez said:

We'll see this year. I don't know how you don't find this group of receivers better. We also got a line. We're going to forget Robby by week 2

Well, start with the fact that the team had 3100 passing yards and 1200 of it just walked to be replaced with a rookie, two busts, and some UDFA.  I like Mims and understand the Perriman signing.  OTOH, rookies are rookies and Perriman is on his 4th team in 4 years and averages 400 yards per season.  There is a pretty good chance that we are getting Robby Anderson speed and Demaryius Thomas production.

I okay with the moves and I am fairly optimistic, but I fully understand people having questions about this group.

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I wouldn't  bet on Mims having an impsct this season. The guy will get zero respect from the zebras and he is going to be raped by every db he is opposed by. We see it all the time. 

I see WRs having to learn the game, and its probably after QB the hardest transition from college to pro game.  

I dont see different treatment from refs. causing issues.  Getting off of the NFL line is different than running unchecked in the college game

[More Cowbell]

7 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

It’s almost like there’s a reason Robby was a first option and Perriman was not.

Robby going from an UDFA to first choice WR is a reflection of his ability and performances.

Perriman going from a first round pick to being cut from two teams is a reflection of his ability and performances. 

Robby being a #1 in a much worse offence also means he’s facing better defenders, getting more attention and less favourable matchups. There is not a single justification for ranking Perriman above or around Robby as a WR in the NFL - It’s beyond ludicrous. This farcical notion is reflected in their stats, in their contracts and in their standing on the depth chart.

If anyone hasn’t taken this into consideration it’s you.

Yes, there names were Jarvis Landry and Mike Evans. If the Jets had either of them, Robby Anderson is an afterthought in the O. That is just a fact. This notion that Anderson earned his spot as the #1 on the Jets is ludicrous.  It is more of a failure to aquire players live Landry and Evans than anything. And tell me, other than catching deep passes,  what else did Anderson do? We all know he can get behind a DB with his speed but I think Perriman can be used the same way

 I have never seen Anderson excel at anything else

[More Cowbell]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I see WRs having to learn the game, and its probably after QB the hardest transition from college to pro game.  

I dont see different treatment from refs. causing issues.  Getting off of the NFL line is different than running unchecked in the college game

I think it's  a combo of not getting the respect that say Michael  pushoff Irvin got vs any rookie you care to name as well ss what you brought up. I do agree with the transition  aspect.

[Thai Jet]

25 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I agree it wasn't the best move to dump RA and put in Perriman. It might pan out ok though.

Still, I feel better about our O this year. It should be better, just gotta wait and see I guess.

We didn't "dump" him. He chose to leave. Luckily JD had a back up plan. I'm excited to see what Perriman can do.

[derp]

Crowder was last year’s #1 option, not Robby.

Last year Anderson didn’t do a lot and Thomas didn’t either. The Jets need Perriman and Mims to combine to put up very minimal stats to match last outside receiver year’s production.

If Perriman does what he did last year over the full season - which most fans feel were not impressive over the course of the full season - and Mims matches that, they’ll have met last year’s outside WR production with extra targets left over for Herndon returning.

Plus Smith and Berrios are viable options to improve statistically, a UDFA could do well, etc.

[Aaron Hernandez]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I appreacite the fact that you gave Mims a very good grade on your draft board.  The grade I gave him on my draft board might be twice as  high as he one on your draft board.  This does not mean he has proven anything.

Nothing is proven till he takes a snap. Name the last WR you felt this good about us drafting. This isn't ******* Stephen Hill who tested good at the combine but had no production in college. We got a guy who tested out of the building and the only critisim is drops and his route tree in college.

His drops are a stupid argument. If you remove his junior year when he played with a broken hand his drop rate was lower than Lamb or Jeudy.

With his limited route tree he graded the highest at at the senior bowl when he had it expanded for the first time. 

Stop being a miserable Jets fan and be happy we got a steal.

[y2k8]

We really only can say 2 things for sure:

1. The offensive line will be better (they can't get worse than last year).

2. The receivers will be faster.

I'm looking forward to watching which of those guys step up and claim a roster spots.  I think we are all going to be pleasantly surprised.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Aaron Hernandez said:

Nothing is proven till he takes a snap. Name the last WR you felt this good about us drafting. This isn't ******* Stephen Hill who tested good at the combine but had no production in college. We got a guy who tested out of the building and the only critisim is drops and his route tree in college.

His drops are a stupid argument. If you remove his junior year when he played with a broken hand his drop rate was lower than Lamb or Jeudy.

His limited route tree he graded the highest at at the senior bowl when he had it expanded for the first time. 

Stop being a miserable Jets fan and be happy we got a steal.

I literally just said I think very highly of him and said the pick was an A+.  There is no grade you can give to a pick that allows for a stronger endorsement. 

[Dcat]

23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I wouldn't  bet on Mims having an impsct this season. The guy will get zero respect from the zebras and he is going to be raped by every db he is opposed by. We see it all the time. 

Add to that there will be very little practice before the season start, whenever that will really be.  Teams that have already strong sync between QBs and WRs will have a distinct advantage over the Jets who only have a slot receiver familiar with the offense.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Except Perriman has had 50% of Robby’s production throughout his career.  And we have little reason to believe Herndon will stay healthy and give us anything.  But if either him or Griffin stay healthy, just one of them - I think the TE position will be okay.  Not great, but competent. 

Letting Robby go was a big hit and mind boggling as to why we would have let our only legitimate NFL threat go when we were so deplete of resources.     

And 50% less targets.

Will Perriman's production rise if he isn't the 3rd or 4th WR and how will Robby's production be if he is getting less targets per game?

[Skeptable]

3 hours ago, heymangold said:

As much as I dislike Robby, he’s had a better career than perriman.  Don’t be blinded by perriman’s last 5 games and think that’s who he is. If he turns out to be that way, I’ll be happy.  I’m not expecting it though.

Perriman started his NFL career so slow because of injuries. When he was finally healthy to return to the Ravens, they didn't need him any longer. Then he got stuck on the bottom of 2 depth charts with no real opportunity because of the talent above him on those rosters. When finally able to move up with Evans and Godwin injuries he showed his true talent.

Sure everyone can dismiss the production in the last 5 games, but that was the only opportunity to prove his talents with the 2 star WRs getting injured and the increased volume of passes. 

Robby Anderson has been healthy his whole career and still only barely had better production then Perriman last year. The downgrade, if there is one, from RA to Perriman is so little that you won't even realize Robby left.

[Claymation]

15 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Add to that there will be very little practice before the season start, whenever that will really be.  Teams that have already strong sync between QBs and WRs will have a distinct advantage over the Jets who only have a slot receiver familiar with the offense.

And which teams are that in the division?

Miami has a new OC, and while Fitz has played for him most of the other WR/TE have not.

Stidham will be getting 1st team reps for the 1st time.

Allen is in his 3rd year with Dabol, and they are returning most of their offense outside of Diggs.

Jets have 4 to 5 returning starters, thankfully Darnold is one of the 4 along with the TE, slot, RB and possibly a guard.

[BUM-KNEE]

34 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

We didn't "dump" him. He chose to leave. Luckily JD had a back up plan. I'm excited to see what Perriman can do.

We didn't dump him, no. Wording wasn't ideal.

Still I wanted to have him here for Sam.

 

 

[Thai Jet]

3 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

We didn't dump him, no. Wording wasn't ideal.

Still I wanted to have him here for Sam.

 

 

Agreed. I preferred him to return but the choice was Robby's.

[BUM-KNEE]

Just now, Thai Jet said:

Agreed. I preferred him to return but the choice was Robby's.

I hope Perriman can at least do enough so that we won't miss Robbie much. 

 

[Beerfish]

From an other wise nice draft Douglas made a mistake in not taking another WR, was very good value at some point in which he traded down or took the Qb/punter.

[FidelioJet]

30 minutes ago, Claymation said:

And 50% less targets.

Will Perriman's production rise if he isn't the 3rd or 4th WR and how will Robby's production be if he is getting less targets per game?

So, theoretically, if I were an NFL football and sucked, therefor got few targets I’m somehow as good as someone with double my production?

He got fewer targets because he wasn’t as good.  That seems like basic logic to me.

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Yes, there names were Jarvis Landry and Mike Evans. If the Jets had either of them, Robby Anderson is an afterthought in the O. That is just a fact. This notion that Anderson earned his spot as the #1 on the Jets is ludicrous.  It is more of a failure to aquire players live Landry and Evans than anything. And tell me, other than catching deep passes,  what else did Anderson do? We all know he can get behind a DB with his speed but I think Perriman can be used the same way

 I have never seen Anderson excel at anything else

That is a ridiculous take.  The guy couldn't achieve 350 yards receiving because...  Jarvis Landry?  The Browns felt they needed receiving help so much that they traded a 1st and 3rd and 2 NFL players for Beckham.  If Rashard Higgins could have a decent year with that team, why couldn't Perriman?  More importantly why did he suck so bad?  What was his excuse for having Rashard Higgins put up production that season?   Okay, he joined them late, but then why didn't they want him back?

Mike Evans being a target hog didn't seem to hurt Chris Godwin any.  You want to add Godwin to this imaginary list of superstars keeping Perriman from NFL superstardom?  Okay, they how did the immortal Adam Humphreys have 800+ yards receiving on that team?  You want to claim Humphreys is a slot and feasted underneath because of those guys, then what about DeSean Jackson's nearing 800 yards on the same team?  I get that Winston kind of sucks, but those guys did that damage with Ryan Fitzpatrick for half the season and they had more pass attempts in 2019 than 2018.

More importantly, what was the excuse in Baltimore?  They had a big armed QB and I don't see anyone saying he had such a tough route to get targets over Mike Wallace and Steve Smith.  They went into the season with a washed up Jeremy Maclin instead.

Robby Anderson got a significantly larger contract.  More importantly to the guys that are saying that Douglas "dumped" Anderson - Joe Douglas offered Anderson a significantly longer term and higher money contract than he gave Perriman. Anderson got behind DBs on a team with nothing else.  Perriman didn't exactly excel at it despite playing with other quality receivers and big armed QBs.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I agree it wasn't the best move to dump RA and put in Perriman. It might pan out ok though.

Still, I feel better about our O this year. It should be better, just gotta wait and see I guess.

I agree, I’m pretty high on Mims and think he’ll be a legit #1 - I actually like Griffin a lot, thought he and Darnold had a nice connection - Sam was playing his best when Griffin was there.  Herndon is a bonus if he can stay healthy and Perriman would be a major surprise if he can see similar production to Robby (although I think that’s unlikely)

I’m not nearly as sold on the O-line as most seem to be here though - that’s still my biggest concern (well after HC)

[Irish Jet]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

??????

Who has said this?

Ever?

I just did.

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, Aaron Hernandez said:

Mims who I said on my real account I had rated with Jeudy and Lamb. I said it here after the first round that I had them as my top 3. We got him, Perriman is basically a faster Robby. We also got Herndon back with a better line also

It's always funny how Jets Fans claim "Prospect #12" is REALLY rated as prospect #3, and maybe #1, after the Jets Draft them.

This has especially been the case with Mims, who has gone from a falling stone to better than Jeudy and Lamb in many Jets Fans eyes.

Sure hope you all are right.....

 

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

From an other wise nice draft Douglas made a mistake in not taking another WR, was very good value at some point in which he traded down or took the Qb/punter.

I think there is a "new hotness" bias amongst fans.

Are 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th round, 20+ rated WR prospects REALLY better than existing NFL FA prospects?  I'm not convinced that they are.

Sure, another WR we can "HYPE" over would have been nice......if the top WR's 16 hadn't all been long gone by the start of the 4th round.

Would a Gandy-Golden or another of the rated 17th or lower WR's have been a good choice?  I honestly don't know, I guess we'll see. 

We have a history of Fan Love Fests here with UDFA WR's, and more than a fair share of them who stuck, so many the UDFA's we picked up will help fill that gap.

Clearly, Douglas was in a "fix ALL the things to some degree" mode this draft cycle.  You cannot take a low talent and thin team and make in chock full of talent and deep everywhere in one offseason.  Something had to wait, and it looks like #4+ WR was where we decided to wait.

Me, I'd have taken Jeudy #11 and Mims #48, and then drafted nothing but O-linemen the rest of the way with maybe Hall at CB later on.  Clearly douglas felt very differently, same way HE clearly didn't think we needed a Center as much as I thought we did.  He passed on every one multiple times, so I hope our Center doesn't suck in 2020.

If Mims is a legit #1, we're probably ok.  Crowder is a solid #2/Slot guy.  The rest, #3 and #4 WR's, will simply have to sort themselves out come training camp.  Someone will shine, I think.

[Warfish]

Deleted, Double post.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Warfish

[Irish Jet]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Yes, there names were Jarvis Landry and Mike Evans. If the Jets had either of them, Robby Anderson is an afterthought in the O. That is just a fact. This notion that Anderson earned his spot as the #1 on the Jets is ludicrous.  It is more of a failure to aquire players live Landry and Evans than anything. And tell me, other than catching deep passes,  what else did Anderson do? We all know he can get behind a DB with his speed but I think Perriman can be used the same way

 I have never seen Anderson excel at anything else

When did Jarvis Landry or Mike Evans play for the Ravens?  How did they get Perriman released from two different teams? Forget about starting - he was straight up binned. 

It is not a fact, no matter how much you proclaim. Robby's ability to win deep is rare by any standard. At the very least he would still be used to stretch the field. He'll have a place on any NFL roster despite his limitations, and yes I'm aware he has limitations. 

It is absolutely not ludicrous to say he earned it. He was an undrafted guy taken in off the streets. This is like saying Chrebet didn't earn his spot on the Jets because they had no other slot guy - asinine logic. He was not expected to make the roster when he was brought in - He outperformed every expectation anyone had of him and by year two nearly matched what is Perriman's career production. To say he didn't earn that is insulting. 

Getting open and catching passes deep is about as valuable a trait as any WR can have. Perriman may be capable of it but he hasn't been doing it anywhere near the same level as Robby has over 4 years. 

[More Cowbell]

21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is a ridiculous take.  The guy couldn't achieve 350 yards receiving because...  Jarvis Landry?  The Browns felt they needed receiving help so much that they traded a 1st and 3rd and 2 NFL players for Beckham.  If Rashard Higgins could have a decent year with that team, why couldn't Perriman?  More importantly why did he suck so bad?  What was his excuse for having Rashard Higgins put up production that season?   Okay, he joined them late, but then why didn't they want him back?

Mike Evans being a target hog didn't seem to hurt Chris Godwin any.  You want to add Godwin to this imaginary list of superstars keeping Perriman from NFL superstardom?  Okay, they how did the immortal Adam Humphreys have 800+ yards receiving on that team?  You want to claim Humphreys is a slot and feasted underneath because of those guys, then what about DeSean Jackson's nearing 800 yards on the same team?  I get that Winston kind of sucks, but those guys did that damage with Ryan Fitzpatrick for half the season and they had more pass attempts in 2019 than 2018.

More importantly, what was the excuse in Baltimore?  They had a big armed QB and I don't see anyone saying he had such a tough route to get targets over Mike Wallace and Steve Smith.  They went into the season with a washed up Jeremy Maclin instead.

Robby Anderson got a significantly larger contract.  More importantly to the guys that are saying that Douglas "dumped" Anderson - Joe Douglas offered Anderson a significantly longer term and higher money contract than he gave Perriman. Anderson got behind DBs on a team with nothing else.  Perriman didn't exactly excel at it despite playing with other quality receivers and big armed QBs.

The fact is if Anderson played on Cleveland behind Landry or Tampa behind Evans , he more than likely is not putting up the same numbers as he does on the Jets where he was the only big play WR on the team. Is Perriman any good. It's  not likely but that is not my point. Andersons numbers are inflated on the Jets because Sam and McKown had no other options.

And I doubt very much Cleveland traded for OBJ because of Perriman. They thought they were a playoff team and they were loading up. 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The thing you are not taking into considerstion is Perriman was never the first option on any of the teams he played on while Anderson was while he was here. Not saying either is a #1, it's  just there were no other viable options on the Jets as far as a WR goes.

Exactly! Do you think Robby would be the #1 in Tampa with Evans? Robby just got lucky that Maccagnan drafted TERRIBLY at the WR position, along with Idzik. Robby never even had competition here, most of them barely got out of camp before they were cut! Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans, Quincy, Charone Peake, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen.

I mean seriously, Robby Anderson should kiss Maccs rings, he's probably 75% responsible for Robbys contract he got from Carolina. He was a #2 WR who got to play #1 & get targeted way more than he should of. Yes, he took advantage of his opportunity but I'm very happy JD did not match that contract & decided to revamp his WR core.

[More Cowbell]

2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

When did Jarvis Landry or Mike Evans play for the Ravens?  How did they get Perriman released from two different teams? Forget about starting - he was straight up binned. 

It is not a fact, no matter how much you proclaim. Robby's ability to win deep is rare by any standard. At the very least he would still be used to stretch the field. He'll have a place on any NFL roster despite his limitations, and yes I'm aware he has limitations. 

It is absolutely not ludicrous to say he earned it. He was an undrafted guy taken in off the streets. This is like saying Chrebet didn't earn his spot on the Jets because they had no other slot guy - asinine logic. He was not expected to make the roster when he was brought in - He outperformed every expectation anyone had of him and by year two nearly matched what is Perriman's career production. To say he didn't earn that is insulting. 

Getting open and catching passes deep is about as valuable a trait as any WR can have. Perriman may be capable of it but he hasn't been doing it anywhere near the same level as Robby has over 4 years. 

The fact that you mentioned Chrebet as a comparion just shows you have limited knowledge on the subject. Chrebet was on the same team as KJ and he excelled with one of the better WR in the NFL on the same roster. Anderson was never in this position. A d btw, we had a bunch of crap in camp with WC ss well. Thst isn't  to say Chrebet wasn't  great, he qss a third down conversion machine who was so good, even Kotite noticed. 

[Irish Jet]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

The fact that you mentioned Chrebet as a comparion just shows you have limited knowledge on the subject. Chrebet was on the same team as KJ and he excelled with one of the better WR in the NFL on the same roster. Anderson was never in this position. A d btw, we had a bunch of crap in camp with WC ss well. Thst isn't  to say Chrebet wasn't  great, he qss a third down conversion machine who was so good, even Kotite noticed. 

Robby Anderson joined a team with Brandon Marshall. What in the world are you talking about?

The point is both guys came in with no expectations and earned spots they were never projected to make. That is undeniable. 

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

Robby Anderson joined a team with Brandon Marshall. What in the world are you talking about?

The point is both guys came in with no expectations and earned spots they were never projected to make. That is undeniable. 

Yeah, he came into the league with a washed up Brandon Marshall, so what? The only reason Marshall had such a good first sesson here was because  he played opposite  Decker. Once Decker was hurt, Marshall showed how broken he was. Getting on a team with a #1 WR on the wrong side of 30 is not the same thing as what Chrebet did. 

[Prez33]

Why is it that every time a player chooses to leave in FA, we assume that the Jets “dumped him”?  This Anderson situation looks like he left to be with his old college coach, or at least part of the reason. A good GM puts a ceiling on what they’ll pay a player based on performance. Robby never had 1,000 yards/10 TD’s in a season. Not once. 
 

I would’ve preferred that we re-signed him, but it’s not like we lost Julio Jones here. I think Jamison Crowder is more valuable to the offense anyway. 

[BUM-KNEE]

53 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Robby Anderson got a significantly larger contract.  More importantly to the guys that are saying that Douglas "dumped" Anderson - Joe Douglas offered Anderson a significantly longer term and higher money contract than he gave Perriman. Anderson got behind DBs on a team with nothing else.  Perriman didn't exactly excel at it despite playing with other quality receivers and big armed QBs.

I already said my wording of "dumped" wasn't ideal Dom. I wanted RA over Perriman.

Breathe brother. (Or hit a smelling salt)

[Irish Jet]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Yeah, he came into the league with a washed up Brandon Marshall, so what? The only reason Marshall had such a good first sesson here was because  he played opposite  Decker. Once Decker was hurt, Marshall showed how broken he was. Getting on a team with a #1 WR on the wrong side of 30 is not the same thing as what Chrebet did. 

A washed up Brandon Marshall coming off a 1500 yard season. You're mentioning Chrebet going up against a rookie Keyshawn Johnson. Neither guy exactly in their prime. Still a totally meaningless point to begin with that does nothing to dispute the idea of Robbie earning a roster spot. Perriman failed to beat out anyone in Baltimore and Washington despite costing the former a first round pick. 

The fact that he wasn't up against Jerry Rice and Randy Moss doesn't take away from the fact that he beat out and outproduced NFL vets. If it was so f*cking simple to go get 950 yards and 7 TD's in the NFL we'd all be doing it, Breshad Perriman included.