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Curtis Martin vs current and future HOF candidates


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I always liked Curtis Martin, but truthfully, putting him in the same breath as Barry Sanders is an insult. Sanders is a top 5 HOF back. Martin is a bottom 5 HOF back. No one in their right mind would

I think that one guy that is being left out is Eric Dickerson. 4.28 40 and was just unstoppable. I would put this order...Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Ladamion Tomlinson, E

Tomlinson is a criminally underrated all-around back. 

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1 hour ago, chirorob said:

I believe when Franco retired he was #3 all time in rushing yards.   He had the catch, he had a SB MVP, he was the #1 facet of that offense when the Steelers won their first 2 Super Bowls.

Jim Brown was so disgusted that Franco Harris got into the HOF that he threatened to return to the game just to show how it should be played. 

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2 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Jim Brown was so disgusted that Franco Harris got into the HOF that he threatened to return to the game just to show how it should be played. 

Brown was pissed when he thought Franco might pass him, franco was known to duck out of  bounds rather than take a shot.

When Walter passed Brown, he had nothing to say, Jim Brown respected the hell out of Walter Peyton.

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14 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Put Curtis behind that Dallas OL in those years.  I mean Blair Thomas would run for 1000 yards a year.  Emmitt was good just never felt he was ll that he was souped up to be.  Brown, Campbell top two RB's ever.  Jim Brown told Earl's kid: There's me and then your dad.  And after that, put who you want.

I never heard that quote but I love it.  I have been promoting Earl as the #2 all-timer for years here and get a lot of push-back from Barry and Walter fans.  To me it's not even a question.  I feel more than a little vindicated by that quote.  

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11 hours ago, Eaton Beaver said:

I think that one guy that is being left out is Eric Dickerson. 4.28 40 and was just unstoppable. I would put this order...Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Ladamion Tomlinson, Emmett Smith.

Eric Dickerson- 6X pro bowl, 5X all pro, Hall of Fame

 
 

Dickerson is a really good pick up there. He doesn't get the love he deserves.

Payton to me was the best I ever saw. He REALLY was the Bears entire offense till they got some talent around him 1983,1984 and by that time he was already starting to decline somewhat.

As far as Martin is concerned....Great back....HOF back, loved the guy and if I can have a back that played 157 of 160 regular season games and gives me anywhere from 1000 to nearly 1700 yards a year I'll take my chances with that.

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13 hours ago, chirorob said:

I believe when Franco retired he was #3 all time in rushing yards.   He had the catch, he had a SB MVP, he was the #1 facet of that offense when the Steelers won their first 2 Super Bowls.

harris was the king of compilers.  i'm not the only one with this opinion or have some disdain for the way he played.  jim brown thought the same.

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11 hours ago, Eaton Beaver said:

I think that one guy that is being left out is Eric Dickerson. 4.28 40 and was just unstoppable. I would put this order...Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Ladamion Tomlinson, Emmett Smith.

Eric Dickerson- 6X pro bowl, 5X all pro, Hall of Fame

 
 

OJ Simpson may be a disturbed killer, but he was a top five HOF back. No one, not even Jim Brown, had a season like OJ did in 1973. He was 50% of the offense for Buffalo and broke 2000 yards rushing in a 14 game season. 

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19 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

OJ Simpson may be a disturbed killer, but he was a top five HOF back. No one, not even Jim Brown, had a season like OJ did in 1973. He was 50% of the offense for Buffalo and broke 2000 yards rushing in a 14 game season. 

Done..

OJ was a fumbling machine. 

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13 hours ago, CSNY said:

Earl Campbell was the greatest back I ever saw. If I were to start a team he would be first back I pick. Just a awesome teammate and person with work ethic and humility 

He was amazing, for 3 years, and then started to rapidly decline.   That's what is amazing to me about Walter Payton, in his 11th year he had 324 carries for over 1500 yards, a 4.8 average and 49 receptions.  

I'm not hating on Earl, for those first few years he was amazing.   It's just different than the prolonged excellence of a Brown, a Payton, or a Sanders.

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10 minutes ago, chirorob said:

He was amazing, for 3 years, and then started to rapidly decline.   That's what is amazing to me about Walter Payton, in his 11th year he had 324 carries for over 1500 yards, a 4.8 average and 49 receptions.  

I'm not hating on Earl, for those first few years he was amazing.   It's just different than the prolonged excellence of a Brown, a Payton, or a Sanders.

Terrel Davis doesn't get enough love in these conversations. The things he did through 1998 were unreal, and that 1998 year was one of the best of all time

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15 hours ago, Snook said:

While I loved Barry's highlights he was quite often tackled for a loss, as exciting at it was you can't run an offence like that. The OL never knew which way he would go.

The team and OL both sucked his entire career. After Bo he’s the best I’ve ever seen. 

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4 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Terrel Davis doesn't get enough love in these conversations. The things he did through 1998 were unreal, and that 1998 year was one of the best of all time

More than the few number of years I think he gets penalized for being on a dominant Denver team, and even more so because not one but two of his no-name replacements also did really well after he went down. Made it look (to many) like anyone with legs would have been a stud RB behind that cut-blocking line.

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2 hours ago, shawn306 said:

Dickerson is a really good pick up there. He doesn't get the love he deserves.

Payton to me was the best I ever saw. He REALLY was the Bears entire offense till they got some talent around him 1983,1984 and by that time he was already starting to decline somewhat.

As far as Martin is concerned....Great back....HOF back, loved the guy and if I can have a back that played 157 of 160 regular season games and gives me anywhere from 1000 to nearly 1700 yards a year I'll take my chances with that.

After the three I hadn’t seen (Brown, Campbell & OJ)

1. Bo Jackson

2. Sanders

3. Payton

4. Peterson

5. Dickerson

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Just now, Doggin94it said:

Terrel Davis doesn't get enough love in these conversations. The things he did through 1998 were unreal, and that 1998 year was one of the best of all time

He was awesome.  But Shanahan's system was incredibly friendly to RBs, and that has to be taken into account.  Just like Emmit Smith's historically great Offensive Line plays a factor in how people view him when ranking RBs.

From 1995-2008, Shanahan's tenure in Denver, there were only 3 seasons (2001, 2007, 2008) where the Broncos failed to produce a 1,000+ yard rusher.  All of these RBs accomplished the feat after TD:

  • Olandis Gary (1,159 yds - 1999)
  • Mike Anderson (1,487 - 2000; 1,014 - 2005)
  • Clinton Portis (1,508 - 2002; 1,591 - 2003)
  • Reuben Droughns (1,240 - 2004)
  • Tatum Bell (1,025 - 2006)

And even in that 2001 season where there was no 1,000+ yard rusher, Mike Anderson, Terrell Davis and Olandis Gary combined for 1,607 yards.  In 2007, the trio of Selvin Young, Travis Henry and Andre Hall combined for 1,636 on the ground.  In 2008, a quartet of Peyton Hillis, Michael Pittman, Young and Bell combined for 1,215 yards.

So while TD was the best RB Shanahan had by far, its difficult to put him in the category of RBs previously discussed here.  

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2 hours ago, 82nd Airborne said:

Done..

OJ was a fumbling machine. 

No he wasn't. First of all, teams fumbled overall at a higher average in those years. Secondly, fumbles are a product of carries and need to be averaged as such. Jim Brown had 7 fumbles in 12 games in 1963 when he rushed for over 1800 yards. OJ had seven in 1973 when he rushed in 14 games for over 2000. Dickerson was a fumble machine. Maybe you got them mixed up.

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1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

No he wasn't. First of all, teams fumbled overall at a higher average in those years. Secondly, fumbles are a product of carries and need to be averaged as such. Jim Brown had 7 fumbles in 12 games in 1963 when he rushed for over 1800 yards. OJ had seven in 1973 when he rushed in 14 games for over 2000. Dickerson was a fumble machine. Maybe you got them mixed up.

Actually, all 3 guys are pretty close when you look at fumbles rates as a function of touches.  Dickerson and OJ both fumbled once every 42 touches throughout their career.  Brown was once every 46 touches.  Payton, once every 50.  Campbell was once every 54.

And Martin, though a different era was off the charts low -- one fumble every 138 touches throughout his career; and once every 172 touches as a Jet.  Its just that two of his fumbles are etched indelibly in the minds of Jet fans:  the one in the AFCCG vs Denver in 98; and then the play that resulted in Vinny's injury in '99.

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4 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

OJ Simpson may be a disturbed killer, but he was a top five HOF back. No one, not even Jim Brown, had a season like OJ did in 1973. He was 50% of the offense for Buffalo and broke 2000 yards rushing in a 14 game season. 

F89CC038-0E3D-41FA-B391-13E6E0F7CA33.jpeg.20ac0852d0d93023f8086c0cde84c1ac.jpeg

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1 hour ago, PCP63 said:

Would take Jim Brown over any of those guys. One of the top 3 players of all-time, along with Brady and Rice.

Brown was the first really physical running back he changed the position

 

If he played today he would still be tremendous 

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On 5/12/2020 at 2:27 PM, 82nd Airborne said:

Great website to compare players.   https://nflcomparisons.com/barry-sanders-vs-curtis-martin-comparison/

I am working on the spreadsheet and will keep updating.  

 

 

 

 

 

Slide1.JPG

Martin is the bottom player of RBs that have made the NFL. He was consistent, durable and above average for a very long time but not to the level of the others in the HOF. Personally I never believed he should be there in the first place.

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16 hours ago, Eaton Beaver said:

I think that one guy that is being left out is Eric Dickerson. 4.28 40 and was just unstoppable. I would put this order...Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Ladamion Tomlinson, Emmett Smith.

Eric Dickerson- 6X pro bowl, 5X all pro, Hall of Fame

 
 

I never got to see Brown/Dickerson/Campbell/Payton, and even Barry and Emmit were on their final legs when I started watching.

If I needed one RB to win 1 game for me when all else was equal (OL, QB, WRs, TE), of all the RBs I’ve seen since mid 90s, I’m taking Adrian Peterson and not looking back. 

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2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Terrel Davis doesn't get enough love in these conversations. The things he did through 1998 were unreal, and that 1998 year was one of the best of all time

Had him on my fantasy team that year.  What was awesome, was I also had Jamal Anderson.

Best team ever.

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5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

F89CC038-0E3D-41FA-B391-13E6E0F7CA33.jpeg.20ac0852d0d93023f8086c0cde84c1ac.jpeg

I have been a Jets fan since 1968, so I am fully aware of OJ Simpson (the juice), and how he shredded the Jets over the years.  I think his best games were against the Jets.  They used to say, "Florida has the oranges, but Miami has the juice".

Man, I really hated him.  Still hate him, and always will hate him.

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7 minutes ago, Alka said:

They used to say, "Florida has the oranges, but Miami has the juice".

Man, I really hated him.  Still hate him, and always will hate him.

Wait, I don’t get this one? He played in Buffalo.

 

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On 5/13/2020 at 5:19 PM, 32EBoozer said:

His OL was as bad as ours & Barry was the sole offensive weapon to be feared. 

You could also add in he never played with a TE or even a FB. Barry created yards all by himself and it's amazing how a RB could do so well in a run and shoot offense.

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23 hours ago, Eaton Beaver said:

I think that one guy that is being left out is Eric Dickerson. 4.28 40 and was just unstoppable. I would put this order...Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Ladamion Tomlinson, Emmett Smith.

Eric Dickerson- 6X pro bowl, 5X all pro, Hall of Fame

 
 

Loved Dickerson but it's hard to look away from all of the balls he put on the ground. Great RB and also a great fumbler.

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