When Should the US Re-Open?

[Barry McCockinner]

There seems to be a lot of conflicting ideas about re-opening. I'm curious what people are thinking.

[Arsis]

When the science says that it's safe to open. The second wave for the Spanish Flu supposedly killed more than the first wave.

 

 

What happens if you open and have to close again in 3 months with a similar or slightly higher peak?

 

There is no right answer and humanity does not have as much control as we pretend we do.

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, Arsis said:

When the science says that it's safe to open. The second wave for the Spanish Flu supposedly killed more than the first wave.

 

 

What happens if you open and have to close again in 3 months with a similar or slightly higher peak?

 

There is no right answer and humanity does not have as much control as we pretend we do.

When the science says it's safe to open is very vague. What do you mean by that?

[Jetsfan80]

None of the options provided. 

Open slowly in phases.  Rural areas can open quicker than cities. 

There is no known date when the US can fully re-open, if by "re-open" you mean "get back to the way things were".  That might take years.

[Arsis]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

When the science says it's safe to open is very vague. What do you mean by that?

Again, you are pretending that it's possible to have a solid non vague answer because your worldview can not handle that lack of control we have over the current situation. There are a number of variables that need to be taken into account and we as laymen go not have access to them.

we have very draconian measures worldwide and still 300k people have died and that's with Russia and China being accused of not tracking deaths at all.

If we open up and more people die are we okay with the extra 50,100,200k deaths so people can get haircuts?

 

I can't tell you the answer because I am not omniscient. The government isn't either. Some people are going to have to accept that we're monkeys with anxiety and not actual gods in control of our reality. There isn't a correct answer to this question. It doesn't exist.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Arsis said:

Again, you are pretending that it's possible to have a solid non vague answer because your worldview can not handle that lack of control we have over the current situation. There are a number of variables that need to be taken into account and we as laymen go not have access to them.

we have very draconian measures worldwide and still 300k people have died and that's with Russia and China being accused of not tracking deaths at all.

If we open up and more people die are we okay with the extra 50,100,200k deaths so people can get haircuts?

 

I can't tell you the answer because I am not omniscient. The government isn't either. Some people are going to have to accept that we're monkeys with anxiety and not actual gods in control of our reality. There isn't a correct answer to this question. It doesn't exist.

 

I hate the "so people can get haircuts" thing. It's hyperbolic and intended to minimize the real threats posed by staying shut down.

People need to feed their families. Small businesses are the lifeblood of our economy and many of them aren't going to be able to survive a long term shut down. 

[Jetsfan80]

And yes, we may look back on this decades from now and realize we got this all wrong.  That we should have gone full "herd mentality", gotten as many people exposed as quickly as possible to build up immunity.  I doubt it, but I recognize its possible.  No one really knows.  

I do think the economy should bounce back pretty quickly, as long as we don't end up with another massive spike and another round of mass unemployment.  

[Thai Jet]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

There seems to be a lot of conflicting ideas about re-opening. I'm curious what people are thinking.

I feel really bad for some of the small businesses, many of them will never reopen. Awards shops, gun shops, consignment shops, and small retail stores should be allowed to open, IMHO. They have had ZERO income the last 2 months but still have the expenses. Just limit the # of people, have them all wear masks and social distance. These stores are never really that crowded. With the few retail stores open now (Walmart, Target) people are congested in those stores instead of being spread out in other stores making it worse . Hold off on restaurants , as far as inside seating , until we see how every thing is trending down the road.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And yes, we may look back on this decades from now and realize we got this all wrong.  That we should have gone full "herd mentality", gotten as many people exposed as quickly as possible to build up immunity.  I doubt it, but I recognize its possible.  No one really knows.  

I do think the economy should bounce back pretty quickly, as long as we don't end up with another massive spike and another round of mass unemployment.  

The unemployment level is very scary at this point - the worst since the great depression. The good thing is many of those jobs can still be recovered at this point. But the longer it goes the more will be permanently gone.

[Arsis]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I hate the "so people can get haircuts" thing. It's hyperbolic and intended to minimize the real threats posed by staying shut down.

People need to feed their families. Small businesses are the lifeblood of our economy and many of them aren't going to be able to survive a long term shut down. 

That goes into politics and priorities.

 

There was 2+t of stimulus and small businesses are worrying really says something.

 

[Thai Jet]

7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The unemployment level is very scary at this point - the worst since the great depression. The good thing is many of those jobs can still be recovered at this point. But the longer it goes the more will be permanently gone.

Exactly . What I don't like are these Executive Orders that they are calling "The law !" NO it's NOT the  law.  I see where the Wisconsin Supreme Court just threw out the "Stay at home" executive orders calling them unlawful and unconstitutional . 

[talisaynon]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/opinion/reopen-america-coronavirus-lockdown.html?auth=login-email&login=email
 

good opinion piece on what we should do.

tldr virus is not deadly outside so go barbecue with your loved ones but wear masks and maintain safe distance. Being outdoors big key to containing virus. Businesses should adapt. Everyone should wear masks.

[CTM]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

None of the options provided. 

Open slowly in phases.  Rural areas can open quicker than cities. 

I picked states decide which I took to mean the above. The policies you need in NYC aren't the same as whats needed in butt**** alabama. 

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

I picked states decide which I took to mean the above. The policies you need in NYC aren't the same as whats needed in butt**** alabama. 

Here they are opening the State in phase one except for Arlington, Alexandria and Fairfax counties. Living in Fairfax I can wait till our date June 1. Kinda like to see how this plays out. Gonna take two 14 day cycles get a real good feel. After 28 days I think we will have a better idea of what’s to come. 

[The Crusher]

Mod note: Oh yeah, first person to take this very interesting thread piss politics into it will get  the standard 30 day ban. Or 60 depending how low my blood sugar gets. 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Here they are opening the State in phase one except for Arlington, Alexandria and Fairfax counties. Living in Fairfax I can wait till our date June 1. Kinda like to see how this plays out. Gonna take two 14 day cycles get a real good feel. After 28 days I think we will have a better idea of what’s to come. 

The thing is the "cases" will surge just due to more testing, regardless of what the virus does. Will be interesting to see how that is reported and received.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

I don't care what anybody does . I'm retired and I ain't going anywhere until there is a vaccine .

[Barry McCockinner]

4 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

I don't care what anybody does . I'm retired and I ain't going anywhere until there is a vaccine .

I can respect that but you know there's a real chance there's never a vaccine right?

[ECURB]

Yesterday 

[AVM]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:23 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

None of the options provided. 

Open slowly in phases.  Rural areas can open quicker than cities. 

There is no known date when the US can fully re-open, if by "re-open" you mean "get back to the way things were".  That might take years.

At work we often reference what we call the new normal. The reality is that this event in some way, shape or form has changed the way most everyone thinks and acts.

Some of us have changed the way we think. Others are more confidently believing what they already were. Only a small segment will actually go back to what was the previous normal...and the vast majority if not all of them will be impacted enough by those who view the world differently that their worlds are different.

New normal isn’t a bad thing, either. It’s just what reality will be in a couple years. Different from how it is now, hopefully...but most likely different from how it was 6 months ago most of all.

And with that, I’ll go do what we all should nowadays - drink whiskey.

[Maxman]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:27 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

I hate the "so people can get haircuts" thing. It's hyperbolic and intended to minimize the real threats posed by staying shut down.

People need to feed their families. Small businesses are the lifeblood of our economy and many of them aren't going to be able to survive a long term shut down. 

Many wouldn't survive even if they were allowed to open. So as @Arsis says there are things beyond our control right now.

[southparkcpa]

When tax revenues drop 30-40 percent from drops in income taxes, sales tax, hotel tax, car tax, use taxes, admission taxes etc...  states and local governments  will start to look to the FEDS. At some point very soon we will not have anyone to sell our bonds to at interest rates below 2 percent.

The rubber will meet the road in the next 2 years IMO and we will see cities and states filing for bankruptcy and no buyers for the bonds.

Let's keep in mind Dr Fauci is a 35 year federal bureaucrat think of your local DMV.  When the economy crashes more, we have retail vacancy rates around 20 percent and poor children are left behind, I think people will wonder if we did the right thing. 

Think about a poor family of 5 kids in a small apartment. No school, parent (lots of single parents)out of work etc.  Maybe parents are abusive etc.  

These kids looked at school as their getaway.  But yes we have flattened the curve and possibly ruined millions of young poor children in the process.  No easy answers.

 

[JustInFudge]

My vote is never because lets be real, 20 and 21 are going to be worse than 19 just like 19 was worse than 1-18.  If we want to survive as the human race, we need to figure out a way to be in lock down forever and adjust permanently how we live in a world where you cant step outside or your life is over.  Or the alternative is, someone or some company needs to invent some type of hazmat that everyone in the world can own, make them affordable and fashionable and we'll just live the rest our lives looking like astronauts as we go about our everyday lives and be free from contamination of anything out there that can be passed between our disgusting race.  It's a very dangerous world, people are the most disgusting animals on the earth, we're dropping dead in the streets everywhere you turn and the only way to truly ever be safe is to try and avoid face to face human interaction as much as possible for the rest of existence on this planet. 

 

[JustInFudge]

Did you ever see the movie, A Quiet Place?  Like, we've got it worse than those dudes.  They could at least go outside and live life, they just had to be really quiet.  No biggie, they learned to adjust, sign language, walk on sand instead of grass, etc.  Brilliant.  We need to do the same because if you step outside, it's over.

Anywho, just my 2 cents, heading out for a surf!  See you guys later! 

 

 

[predator_05]

I won't bother with specific predictions, but i'm 100% certain that life as we knew it, will never return. Our habits and general way of life will change forever.

[Larz]

It should be donee regionally not nationally 

 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

On 5/17/2020 at 7:38 AM, predator_05 said:

I won't bother with specific predictions, but i'm 100% certain that life as we knew it, will never return. Our habits and general way of life will change forever.

No more long escalator rides from the upper level after another awful Jet loss ; everyone being hearded to the one escalator going down . Whoever built that stadium should be tarred and feathered . And also made to ride that escalator after a Monday night loss on a 95 degree day . OH THE PUTRID SMELLS .

[Snell41]

Please don’t take this politically-the Pres is pushing the NC gov to guarantee the RNC in late August goes on at full capacity. My opinion is if NC says no, he’ll find another place run by a Rep gov to do it. That will be the last fallen barrier to a 100% fully open country. Every entertainment industry that uses stadiums will point to it and not wait anymore.


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[PS17]

ooo another covid thread ibtl

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[munchmemory]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:51 AM, PS17 said:

ooo another covid thread ibtl

[Barry McCockinner]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:51 AM, PS17 said:

ooo another covid thread ibtl

thread is 2 weeks old ya chooch

[peebag]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

thread is 2 weeks old ya chooch

chooch is sooo yesterday.

Try using choad instead.  Better results.

[The Crusher]

19 minutes ago, peebag said:

chooch is sooo yesterday.

Try using choad instead.  Better results.

I’ve always been partial to chucklehead. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]