Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Danile Jones - Get Used To It

[THE BARON]

I've been listening to a lot of sports radio and fan forum commentary on Darnold, Josh Allen and Daniel Jones.

Each of those QB's has respective deficiencies that the pundits and fans have been discussing.  Mostly, in hopes that those particular issues improve or vanish in the 2020 season now that their teams have added manpower to "help the qb"

1. Sam Darnold.  Uncanny ability to avoid pressure and make eye-popping completions on the run.  BUT - For some reason, he also makes head scratching mistakes with the football.

2. Josh Allen. Herculean arm strength.  Massive size and athletic ability fuels his running ability.  BUT-  Very erratic passer.

3. Daniel Jones.  Outstanding intangibles, very athletic, live arm, superior ball placement.  BUT - Pocket awareness is on par with that of Ken O'Brien.  He cant sense the pressure and he loses the ball.

So... The fans hope Darnold gets better with a new line, Josh Allen gets better with new wide receivers, Danile Jones gets better now that he has had time to "adjust"

Well.. Guess what.  Their respective flaws *AINT* gonna go away.  They are what they are.  

Josh Allen is ALWAYS going to be an erratic passer.  Daniel Jones is NEVER going to learn pocket awareness.  Sam Darnold is NEVER going to eliminate those head scratching mistakes.  You can't remove their brains and replace them.   Adding more WR's wont change them.  

Get used to it.

The Bills need to build an offense that takes advantage of what Allen can do and what he cant.  Same deal with Daniel Jones.  If you have a QB like Josh Allen you want to run some variant of an option offense.  If you have Danile Jones, you want to run an offense that keeps the QB well behind the pressure so peripheral lines of sight don't come into play.  I'd consider a shotgun or pistol based offense. With Sam Darnold, you want to run an offense with a lot of line shifts and play action that take advantage of his ability to improvise. From that point, just deal with the occasional bad pass that will go along with the incredible ones. And HOPE that Sam proves out to be the guy that saves his best for critical moments rather than turn out to be Tony Romo...

Their success of failure is up to the coaches to recognize what they are and what they are not, and subsequently, build the offense *for them*

Past that, get used to what they are.  They aint gonna get any different...

 

[Jet Nut]

And you know that each or any of these QBs won't improve on their deficiencies exactly how Nostradamus?

Especially Darnold given his are a product of being rushed and not having had options to throw too under duress or not.  

[THE BARON]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And you know that each or any of these QBs won't improve on their deficiencies exactly how Nostradamus?

Especially Darnold given his are a product of being rushed and not having had options to throw too under duress or not.  

How ??? You don't need to write quatrains to understand convention and fundamentals.  Are you sure you are a football fan ??? 

[Butterfield]

Can’t really say I disagree.  Every qb has their weaknesses.  The best players fit really well into their systems.  

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

How ??? You don't need to write quatrains to understand convention and fundamentals.  Are you sure you are a football fan ??? 

I dont get what we're supposed to get used to.

Hes the youngest QB of the group, his rookie type mistakes need to be reduced.  No shlt, you need to be a football fan to get this?  

So what's to get used to?  Again, its never going to change?  And how does this lead you question anyone being football fan?  

[Greensleeves]

19 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

How ??? You don't need to write quatrains to understand convention and fundamentals.  Are you sure you are a football fan ??? 

So I guess Peyton Manning continued to throw a ton of interceptions every year of his career. Hmmm. It has nothing to do with a crappy line, or learning coverages. OK.

[THE BARON]

8 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Can’t really say I disagree.  Every qb has their weaknesses.  The best players fit really well into their systems.  

And now, we come to the Jets most serious problem.  Their HC.

In business or sports or any competitive, results oriented line of work, very successful managers/owners/administrators have many qualities.  They can be organized or a bit messy, introverted or extroverted, task oriented or relationship oriented, but they ALL have one important skill in common. They can evaluate the people they have under them and put them in positions that take advantage of their strengths.

For example.  A smart OC/HC would not put Dan Marino in an option offense, nor wound they put Joe Montana in the vertical version of the West Coast offense.  

If you are a smart administrator/coach, you would not put Sam Darnold in an offense with a zone blocking, static pocket and passing plays that were all predicated on precise timing and pinpoint ball placement.  That would be the OPPOSITE of where you should put Sam to take advantage of his skill set.

Well... Guess what ??? That *EXACT* offense is what GASE is *COMPELLED* to run.  GASE cant evaluate the skill set of his QB and then, put him in a position to take advantage of his strengths...

For that, you want aggressive man blocking, line shifts, play action and room to improvise built into the passing game.

And that is the OPPOSITE of what GASE is ADDICTED to...

 

[THE BARON]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont get what we're supposed to get used to.

Hes the youngest QB of the group, his rookie type mistakes need to be reduced.  No shlt, you need to be a football fan to get this?  

So what's to get used to?  Again, its never going to change?  And how does this lead you question anyone being football fan?  

Lay off the tennis, man...

[THE BARON]

5 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

So I guess Peyton Manning continued to throw a ton of interceptions every year of his career. Hmmm. It has nothing to do with a crappy line, or learning coverages. OK.

What do you watch more of ??? Professional wrestling or football ???

[GreenFish]

Nice write up. Pretty much hit the key points on each QB.

This can also guide teams on how to build around them. Let’s say they don’t improve, for Darnold and Jones, a good OL will go a long way. Darnold’s mistakes come under pressure. So limit the amount pressures he sees by building a good OL. Same with Daniel Jones.

For Allen, unlike Darnold and Jones, he’s going to need good WRs to bailout his bad ball placement. 

[slats]

I don't currently even have an opinion of Daniel Jones. Don't care. 

Allen and Darnold both improved from their rookie years, with Allen's second year passing numbers coming close to Darnold's rookie numbers. I think the Bills are trying to turn Allen into a game manager type. I think they're extremely focused on him cutting down mistakes, and want him to run safely when there's not a safe throw for him to make. It's a weird thing to do with someone with such a big arm, but that's where they appeared to be last year. He was pretty efficient for a guy who can't complete 60% of his passes. I'm sure the hope is that he becomes more accurate, and most QBs, given the chance, do. His ceiling there might be lower than most, though. 

Darnold's a different story. Right now, gun to my head, I'd say he's a guy who's gonna have double-digit interceptions every year. I really don't have a problem with that as long as he's productive. Hopefully more Brett Favre than Eli Manning, but both of those guys won Super Bowls. I don't want to take away his aggressiveness the way I believe the Bills are with Allen. I want Darnold to take his chances because I believe more often than not he's going to make a play. But you have to take some of the not in that equation. What he can't have are entire games like the one against NE last year. He has to bounce back from a bad play. Another year older, another year under his belt, and hopefully we start to see more of that consistency. 

[rangerous]

i don't see where the beef is?  darnold's mechanics?  ever watch rodgers throw off his back foot?  favre?  yeah a nice windup looks pretty and all but the job of the qb is to get the job done.  and many of the back foot throws are the result of the pocket breaking down.  let's see what darnold does with a solid pocket and receivers that get open.

[SAR I]

Coming off of mono, Sam Darnold went 7-5 on an injured team with 2-10 talent.

Good Lord he is light-years better than those other two clowns.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Lay off the tennis, man...

Lay off the drugs.

Youre actually shocked that young QBs, 2 with two years under their belts and another with a whole season struggle

But you, with your infinite football wisdom want us all to get used to hearing the same things for their entire career.

As I said, Sam, the only one I care about will learn how to protect the ball better, comes with experience.  He'll also benefit from his new OL which should limit the times hes pushed out of the pocket to save his life and end a play besides giving his improved WR group time to get free.  A lot of his mistake throws won't happen.  Some will, hes a gunslinger type.  

Not getting the need to lecture, this is football 101.  

[THE BARON]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Lay off the drugs.

Youre actually shocked that young QBs, 2 with two years under their belts and another with a whole season.

But you, with your infinite football wisdom want us all to get used to hearing the same things for their entire career.

Trust me I'ver seen more football than you ever will, as if that's an achievement and know the game more than you ever will 

"Trust me", you say ??? Why should I ??? For all of your stated experience, you have no wisdom.  From where I am standing, it seems like you are complicating what I see as the obvious... 

[THE BARON]

15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Coming off of mono, Sam Darnold went 7-5 on an injured team with 2-10 talent.

Good Lord he is light-years better than those other two clowns.

SAR I

Ug… That is bordering on green and white propaganda... 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Ug… That is bordering on green and white propaganda... 

I'm the customarily the biggest quarterback cynic you'll ever meet.  I'm the guy who boo's the bums a year before everyone else catches on.

I love Sam Darnold.  No, not because I'm some homer.  Because he's good.  Really good.

SAR I

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

Front row seats. Should be good

[Greensleeves]

51 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

What do you watch more of ??? Professional wrestling or football ???

Wrestling was never my thing - not that there's anything wrong with wrestling. I'm more of a tennis player and fan if you're asking.  You do know that Manning had way more picks than Sam his first couple of years, right? And that many QBs in history have won Super Bowls very late in their careers after the proverbial "light" went on. You're theory has many holes and is easy to disprove.

[Drums]

The one thing I've seen with the QBs we've had: being inaccurate is tough to change much. You can have the best WR but if you can't hit him.... 

I don't know about awareness for Daniel Jones but I assume experience will help that. Same goes for Darnold: he makes some dumb mistakes but I think he can cut down on those. With that said, I agree with Slats--don't turn Darnold into a safe QB. He is way better than a check-down type guy and if he is turned into that, it's over. It is nice to see when he's running to the right and he has a check-down wide open but somehow finds the guy past the 1st down and fits it in. He's made a bunch of plays like that, especially in year one when he had Herndon healthy and Griffen down the stretch last year.

You can't just say QBs will never change when they've played 2 seasons 

[THE BARON]

8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm the customarily the biggest quarterback cynic you'll ever meet.  I'm the guy who boo's the bums a year before everyone else catches on.

I love Sam Darnold.  No, not because I'm some homer.  Because he's good.  Really good.

SAR I

I dig... I see a lot of good there too. Special talent.  I'm very pensive because I have some idea of how inept Gase is.  If you put his brain in a bird, the bird would fly backwards...

[THE BARON]

10 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Wrestling was never my thing - not that there's anything wrong with wrestling. I'm more of a tennis player and fan if you're asking.  You do know that Manning had way more picks than Sam his first couple of years, right? And that many QBs in history have won Super Bowls very late in their careers after the proverbial "light" went on. You're theory has many holes and is easy to disprove.

It comes down to convention and standards, not statistics.  Some things can be coached and some things cant.  As a pro, how many interceptions did Ken O'Brien have ??? I'd say his numbers were usually very impressive with respect to accuracy percentages and low interceptions.  BUT.  No coach... Not Gruden, not Walsh not McVay would be able to improve his pocket awareness.  Nor would those same coaches have any success improving by any margin, Tim Tebow's throwing motion.  Sure, they could all design a system to help protect them from their weaknesses, but none of them could cure those weaknesses.

This is about observation, evaluation and wisdom...  

[SAR I]

17 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Front row seats. Should be good

It's like taking football from a baby.

SAR I

[THE BARON]

17 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Wrestling was never my thing - not that there's anything wrong with wrestling. I'm more of a tennis player and fan if you're asking.  You do know that Manning had way more picks than Sam his first couple of years, right? And that many QBs in history have won Super Bowls very late in their careers after the proverbial "light" went on. You're theory has many holes and is easy to disprove.

The light that you speak of that went on was the HC or OC that was much more capable than the ones that coached those QB's early in their careers before they  came under the management of one who put the QB in a position to take advantage of his strengths and protect him from his weaknesses...  It is called good management...

[slimjasi]

TLDR: Players never improve on their weaknesses. Cool.
 

[GreenReaper]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And you know that each or any of these QBs won't improve on their deficiencies exactly how Nostradamus?

Especially Darnold given his are a product of being rushed and not having had options to throw too under duress or not.  

Just about all of your top QBs have improved from year to year while in their primes.  They're dedicated footballers who work at their craft in each offseason.  

Mono...plus a poor and injury riddled OL...was a real factor in holding back Darnold's development.

I don't give Darnold any excuses in his year three.  He has a much improved OL and skill players to work with.  He's also familiar with the playbook and offense too.  

I expect Darnold to lead Jets in winning the AFCE an land Jets into the playoffs.  

[TNJet]

Sounds like the best of the 3 wears green...

[Chrebetfan80]

the only thing that kind of worries me at all, and i shouldnt even say worries me, maybe just kind of irks me.  Is sams love affair with allen.  They're best buds.  I dont know why, just annoys me lol 

[ljr]

lol ... people don't get better the more they do something?

put down the peace pipe buddy

[JustInFudge]

[slats]

50 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

I don't give Darnold any excuses in his year three.  He has a much improved OL and skill players to work with.  He's also familiar with the playbook and offense too.  

From the outside, I like what looks like a plan from Joe Douglas to improve the OL and WRs (and the secondary), but I'm not entirely sold that these units are much improved, yet. I know Robby Anderson was a polarizing player here, but I don't feel like Perriman is a sure-fire improvement. In fact, I think he's a bit of a downgrade. I don't think I expect Doctson to even make the team. I'm excited to get Herndon back, hopefully he can stay healthy. Pretty sure that was the knock on him coming out. @JiF would know. I feel a little better about the OL mostly because I think McGovern represents a big improvement all by himself. If both of those groups are significantly improved, it'll be because JD slam-dunked the first two rounds of the draft. 

But yeah, no excuses. In his third year in the league and second in this offense, it's time to take some big strides. 

[Prez33]

I always find that the debate gets cheapened when people start slamming other’s intelligence. This is an opinion forum, for those who’ve forgotten. Taking shots at people because they disagree with you? 
 

Let’s take a deep breath. 

[Sammybighead]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Coming off of mono, Sam Darnold went 7-5 on an injured team with 2-10 talent.

Good Lord he is light-years better than those other two clowns.

SAR I

Just to be clear, the team had 2-10 talent prior to the injuries. 

I fundamentally agree with you SAR. Sam is light year’s above the other 2 and this year he will prove it as he finally, FINALLY, has a least some starting level talent around him. Not great talent, just basic starter level guys. Sam will elevate them.

Also I fundamentally disagree with OP premise. Sam had a fumbling problem in college and fixed it. I agree that there are characteristics you can never change, but you can learn to mitigate bad decisions if you are a QB with a brain which Sam is. I never though Sanchez or Geno would ever learn to mitigate bad decisions because they had .02 brains. Sam is a different animal.

[Jetsfan80]

Turnovers can be handled a lot easier than inaccuracy.  Josh Allen's inaccuracy will never be truly "fixed", and will always hinder him from being a top-half QB.  Especially when he loses his ability to run, whether due to age, injury, or a combination of both.

Darnold can still be very successful despite a lot of turnovers.  If I have to choose one or the other, give me the turnover-prone guy over the inaccurate guy.  

[CurtMart]

How dare you say anything negative against Darnold?