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Gary Meyers reporting that Jamal and Jets have hit impass over contract, trade possible.


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14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wow with that analogy, lol. 

DeGrom puts up numbers that matter.  Adams doesn't, AND he also doesn't win.  

image.thumb.png.179aad35076b1c1cd6976413f4db0e69.png

stats against all DBs since he came into the league.  doesn't matter if he doesn't get interceptions, he's still top of the league in literally everything else.

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That will be the consensus regardless of what the Jets do anyway. If they give him $18mm, it’ll be “wow, they overpaid/what about the offense?/Douglas let himself get bullied and ended up bidding agai

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

No thoughts on this Barry?  After all that work I put in?

 

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I didn't even see this until now. My initial reaction is that not a single guy listed was in his prime which is a key factor to this. What are they all 29+? That's when you don't give out the big contact.

Adams is 24. You want the < 30 years. Nice try but I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

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15 hours ago, Vader said:

Again, I pointed out a flaw in your argument regarding “interceptions”. No one would argue that darelle Revis wasn’t the elite CB in his time. And yet he has about half the INTs as other “Elite” CBs.

very clearly, Revis’ greatness was inversely proportional to his INT statistics in context of comparably great players.

jamal Adams is similarly, a great player, that doesn’t have the INT stats. Quite obviously, these players bring something else - or other metrics - to the table. 

That’s true regarding INTs  but when you compare the opposing QB rating and yards per gain of the guy Revis covered vs Adams it’s not close.  I’m not saying Adams doesn’t make plays in pass defense, but he isn’t an elite pass defender.   He is very good around the line of scrimmage and a decent pass defender, but he is no Revis.

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5 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

That’s true regarding INTs  but when you compare the opposing QB rating and yards per gain of the guy Revis covered vs Adams it’s not close.  I’m not saying Adams doesn’t make plays in pass defense, but he isn’t an elite pass defender.   He is very good around the line of scrimmage and a decent pass defender, but he is no Revis.

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/jamal-adams-named-to-pro-football-focus-top-25-under-25-list

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13 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

There have been a lot of people on the side of don't pay Jamal and he's overrated for quite awhile and there are some who have joined that train recently now that it seems likely he will be gone eventually.

I don't mind the OGs.  Strong in your conviction and I can appreciate that. You all know who you are. 

Weak Sauce by you Jamal Come Lately's. I'm guessing you all know who you are too.

Maybe it’s more about we re home not making money and he’s pissed he is only going to make 3.5 million this year with a big raise next year?  
Or we liked him on his rookie Contract, but not so much at nearly 20 million a year?
Or we don’t want the drama?
Or all of the above

Take your pick

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16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The Patriots cut 4x Pro Bowler and 1x First Team All-Pro Lawyer Milloy 5 days before the 2003 seasons.  He was only 29 at the time.  

The Patriots also traded 5x Pro Bowler and 3x First Team All-Pro Richard Seymour to the Raiders for a 1st rounder in 2009.  Seymour was 29.

Logan Mankins is also a pretty good example for the Pats as well.  He was 31 and had been to 5 straight Pro Bowls before he got moved to the Bucs.  The Pats also declined their team option on Vince Wilfork in 2015.  He then signed with the Texans.

The Steelers cut 5x Pro Bowler and 2x 1st Team All-Pro James Harrison after the 2012 season.  Granted, he was 34 years old at the time.  But he certainly fits what you were looking for.  Especially since he was a Pro Bowler in 2011 and 1st Team All-Pro in 2010.  

Antonio Brown would be a good example for the Steelers too, no?  People were calling them crazy for moving him when they did for just a 3rd and 5th rounder.  Just like they were called crazy for trading Santonio Holmes for a 5th rounder, or for letting go of Plaxico Burress and Mike Wallace.  None of those 3 were on Brown's level, but they've certainly established a pattern of letting WR's walk before paying them.  JuJu Smith-Schuster could be the next one after he hits free agency in 2021.

The Ravens allowed Ed Reed to walk in Free Agency after the 2012 season.  He had just reached the Pro Bowl the year before, with 4 INTs, 1 TD, 15 PDs and 3 FR. 

The Ravens also traded 5x Pro Bowler and 2x First Team All-Pro Haloti Ngata to the Lions for a 4th round pick after the 2013 season, when he was only 29.  

Look at what these teams received for elite talent at arguably more important positions.   People expecting a huge draft return may be disappointed.

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12 minutes ago, heymangold said:

Solely posting a link without your spin leaves me wondering what you re trying to say.  
 

Yes Adams is good, but his pass defense isn’t close to Revis in his prime.  That’s my point and you haven’t refuted it with that link.

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6 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Jamal is traded to the ravens 

The ravens go 15-1 and win the super bowl

Jamal's a great player and a hall of Famer and totally worth the cash

And suddenly you were  wrong about him.

That's how this works, right?

 

The way it works is Douglas trades Adams for picks and/or players.  We then follow the fortunes of Adams and what we took with the picks, and who we paid with the money Adams didn’t get, and evaluate the trade in that context.  
Very simple.  Just like the Mets with Nolan Ryan.  

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2 hours ago, heymangold said:

image.thumb.png.179aad35076b1c1cd6976413f4db0e69.png

stats against all DBs since he came into the league.  doesn't matter if he doesn't get interceptions, he's still top of the league in literally everything else.

By “everything else” you mean “QB Hits, FF, FR, sacks, TFL”? All this says is that he’s a safety who plays linebacker and not safety. 

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10 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

I remember when I was in AZ in the spring with my wife and accompanied her on a business trip... I played a lot of golf while she worked... Yes I'm getting to the point. I just happen to meet a Pats fan who ensured me TB wasn't going anywhere. He still owes me $100. We've seen first hand the likes of JD, and JD is not cowing to JA, or meeting his unrealistic demands if he continues on. We have an adult running the NY Jets now, not a guy who's invested in Maxwell House.

Okay, let me rephrase.

Adams isn’t getting traded.  They’ll use him for his 2 or 3 years and let him walk or they sign him.

But the people here expecting 2, 1’s for for the guy are crazy.  

I like Adams, find him to be a legitimate impact player that always seems to be around the ball - but no one is giving us close to that type of capital for him.

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

By “everything else” you mean “QB Hits, FF, FR, sacks, TFL”? All this says is that he’s a safety who plays linebacker and not safety. 

everyone keeps pigeon holing him as a safety.  and everyone's idea of a safety is the guy in the back that plays the pass.  there are 2 safety positions and jamal doesn't play the FS positon.  he plays the SS postion.  a few years back the "edge" position came out of nowhere and now everyone goes bonkers over it.  like i said before, every analyst went NUTS this draft over Isaiah Simmons, a "hybrid" type, LB/SS/Nickel CB that could play everywhere.  That's Jamal.

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4 minutes ago, heymangold said:

everyone keeps pigeon holing him as a safety.  and everyone's idea of a safety is the guy in the back that plays the pass.  there are 2 safety positions and jamal doesn't play the FS positon.  he plays the SS postion.  a few years back the "edge" position came out of nowhere and now everyone goes bonkers over it.  like i said before, every analyst went NUTS this draft over Isaiah Simmons, a "hybrid" type, LB/SS/Nickel CB that could play everywhere.  That's Jamal.

Pigeonholing? 

If your job is senior accountant, but you’re also good at putting the new jug on the water cooler - people still expect you to be a better than decent accountant.

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You guys are giving WAY too much credibility to a tweet from a former writer for the Dallas Morning News.  It’s an obvious troll job by Jerry to stir stuff up again.  You guys are lapping it up like little puppies.   

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17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Absolutely, and I agree. The difference, of course, is that Simmons is 6’4, 240, ran a 4.38 and is going to be a linebacker in the league who sometimes drops into coverage. If we’re assessing how to pay Adams, then, we should look at him more as a weakside LB. It’s not a knock on him, necessarily, but the role he plays and where his strengths lie leads to the things he does getting over-rated. Like, 61 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 PDs, 1 INT would be a decent season for a LB. He’d be like Erick Kendricks or Telvin Smith. 

His stat last year were based largely on having virtually no one else of any import on defense due to injuries.  And he still produced.   

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I also love the Ledyard take of being "cap strapped".  Does he realize 50+% of teams have a ton of cap space every year and on top of that if the Jets dont pay adams who exactly are we going to pay?  Do we have a LT or pass rusher I dont know about who needs $20+ million per year?

You guys can argue that QB, LT, CB and Edge are all premium positions that should be paid before a safety.  But if your LT is a rookie, you dont have an elite CB or Edge and your QB is under team control for 2 years - AND you have a RB coming off the books in a year or 2, you can afford to pay an elite safety and MLB and build your defense up the middle.

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40 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

By “everything else” you mean “QB Hits, FF, FR, sacks, TFL”? All this says is that he’s a safety who plays linebacker and not safety. 

Adams is just a better version of Landon Collins.  That’s not worth $100 million

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6 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

His stat last year were based largely on having virtually no one else of any import on defense due to injuries.  And he still produced.   

Except for INTs which is the most important stat for a ball hawking safety

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28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Absolutely, and I agree. The difference, of course, is that Simmons is 6’4, 240, ran a 4.38 and is going to be a linebacker in the league who sometimes drops into coverage. If we’re assessing how to pay Adams, then, we should look at him more as a weakside LB. It’s not a knock on him, necessarily, but the role he plays and where his strengths lie leads to the things he does getting over-rated. Like, 61 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 PDs, 1 INT would be a decent season for a LB. He’d be like Erick Kendricks or Telvin Smith. 

The best argument for paying Adams what he wants ($100 mil) is he fits exactly what Williams’ defensive strategy

 

Williams uses a lot of nickel and in Adams he has a Safety who can play the run like a ILB, come off blitzes violently like a OLB and cover

 

However, if we did trade Adams I’m pretty sure Douglas signs Logan Ryan next day

 

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19 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

Lolwut. Edge rusher has been a premium position since Deacon Jones.

Isaiah Simmons is 25 lbs heavier, is stronger, faster, and arguably MORE versatile than Jamal. Check out Derwin James' rookie year, he had 3.5 sacks and 3 interceptions, while being a critical piece in stopping Lamar Jackson in the playoffs in 2018. I like Jamal but Jets fans overvalue him quite a bit.

Let's see how it plays out on the field for Simmons first.  For all you say about Derwin James he's the same weight as Jamal Adams and closer to Adams 40 times than Simmons. 

There have been many fast, strong versatile players that never amounted to anything in the NFL.   Adams and James have proven themselves Simmons hasn't even started. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I also love the Ledyard take of being "cap strapped".  Does he realize 50+% of teams have a ton of cap space every year and on top of that if the Jets dont pay adams who exactly are we going to pay?  Do we have a LT or pass rusher I dont know about who needs $20+ million per year?

You guys can argue that QB, LT, CB and Edge are all premium positions that should be paid before a safety.  But if your LT is a rookie, you dont have an elite CB or Edge and your QB is under team control for 2 years - AND you have a RB coming off the books in a year or 2, you can afford to pay an elite safety and MLB and build your defense up the middle.

I don’t think the argument is about the Jets ability to pay Adams, but as you point out, the Jets don’t have a CB1 or EDGE. Why not trade Adams and use those resources to find those guys instead? 

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Just now, long suffering jets fan said:

Adams is a box safety no, who can rush the passer and occasionally cover.

He fits exactly what Williams likes to do which is lots of nickel blitzes.  It’s difficult to field a nickel D that isn’t a liability against the run and Adams does that

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This situation is very simple for the Jets right now.  If Adams wants his money NOW, then there is no way he gets $17M per year.   The Jets control Adams for the next 3 seasons via the 5th year option and a possible franchise tag.  The cost to keep Adams for 3 more seasons is as follows, 2020....$3.5M salary total cap hit of $7.1M. 2021 5th year option....$9.8M.  2022 franchise tag.....approx. $11.5M.   
 

Based on those numbers Adams has zero leverage to demand upwards of $17M per year.   Adams can yell and scream all he wants, but there isn’t much he can do.  If he REALLY wants his money now he’ll lower his demands.  

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This situation is very simple for the Jets right now.  If Adams wants his money NOW, then there is no way he gets $17M per year.   The Jets control Adams for the next 3 seasons via the 5th year option and a possible franchise tag.  The cost to keep Adams for 3 more seasons is as follows, 2020....$3.5M salary total cap hit of $7.1M. 2021 5th year option....$9.8M.  2022 franchise tag.....approx. $11.5M.   
 

Based on those numbers Adams has zero leverage to demand upwards of $17M per year.   Adams can yell and scream all he wants, but there isn’t much he can do.  If he REALLY wants his money now he’ll lower his demands.  

I’d keep him one more season then trade him next spring for draft picks

 

let him sit out TC and preseason and be a diva he has to play or end up as another Antonio Brown

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Just now, T0mShane said:

I don’t think the argument is about the Jets ability to pay Adams, but as you point out, the Jets don’t have a CB1 or EDGE. Why not trade Adams and use those resources to find those guys instead? 

At the end of the day it's about value.  If you can take a future hall of fame safety and turn him into a young pro bowl edge rusher and pro bowl corner, you do the deal, but you're betting you're going to find two players of that quality with no guarantees in the draft and that's not going to happen in a year.  And if you trade for an established player, you're going to pay most of the money you were going to pay Adams anyway.

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