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Gary Meyers reporting that Jamal and Jets have hit impass over contract, trade possible.

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1 hour ago, Bowles Movement said:

The way it works is Douglas trades Adams for picks and/or players.  We then follow the fortunes of Adams and what we took with the picks, and who we paid with the money Adams didn’t get, and evaluate the trade in that context.  
Very simple.  Just like the Mets with Nolan Ryan.  

I liked Jim Fregosi!

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Joe Douglas has control over Jamal for the next 2 years....he isn't trading him for anything less than a Jalen Ramsey like haul of draft picks. So Jamal Adams better be like Pippen and get ready for his last dance with the Jets. 

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8 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This situation is very simple for the Jets right now.  If Adams wants his money NOW, then there is no way he gets $17M per year.   The Jets control Adams for the next 3 seasons via the 5th year option and a possible franchise tag.  The cost to keep Adams for 3 more seasons is as follows, 2020....$3.5M salary total cap hit of $7.1M. 2021 5th year option....$9.8M.  2022 franchise tag.....approx. $11.5M.   
 

Based on those numbers Adams has zero leverage to demand upwards of $17M per year.   Adams can yell and scream all he wants, but there isn’t much he can do.  If he REALLY wants his money now he’ll lower his demands.  

Great post!  It's all about the leverage.  For once Macc did a good job on a contract.  This thing is going to drag on for a while and in the end Adams will likely have to settle, or risk losing $10s of millions. 

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14 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This situation is very simple for the Jets right now.  If Adams wants his money NOW, then there is no way he gets $17M per year.   The Jets control Adams for the next 3 seasons via the 5th year option and a possible franchise tag.  The cost to keep Adams for 3 more seasons is as follows, 2020....$3.5M salary total cap hit of $7.1M. 2021 5th year option....$9.8M.  2022 franchise tag.....approx. $11.5M.   
 

Based on those numbers Adams has zero leverage to demand upwards of $17M per year.   Adams can yell and scream all he wants, but there isn’t much he can do.  If he REALLY wants his money now he’ll lower his demands.  

Or, Jamal just really wants to be a Cowboy and if he makes enough noise, that possibility is at hand. Douglas has no incentive to pay him, so maybe that’s not the real endgame for Adams’ camp anyway. 

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15 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Agreed, but why hold him accountable for interceptions when his contributions are clear on the field.

Because when a player is considered the world’s best generational Safety he should have more than 2 picks in 3 seasons

 

and one of those picks was on Jared Stidham

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4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Because when a player is considered the world’s best generational Safety he should have more than 2 picks in 3 seasons

 

and one of those picks was on Jared Stidham

The other was on Matt Cassell

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17 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Because when a player is considered the world’s best generational Safety he should have more than 2 picks in 3 seasons

 

and one of those picks was on Jared Stidham

I dont have a horse in this race but to be fair, Adams plays around the line of scrimmage and even rushes the passer.  How many INTs do LBs and defensive ends get?

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Just now, Bowles Movement said:

I dont have a horse in this race but to be fair, Adams plays around the line of scrimmage and even rushes the passer.  How many INTs do LBs and defensive ends get?

Most full time DBs get 2 picks or more in one season by accident

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Just now, Philc1 said:

Most full time DBs get 2 picks or more in one season by accident

That may be true but why do you think that Adams doesnt have them?  Lack of opportunity , range, or bad hands?  Or possibly the way the jets employ him?    I dont recall him dropping a bunch of easy picks so its one of the others.  

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1 minute ago, Bowles Movement said:

That may be true but why do you think that Adams doesnt have them?  Lack of opportunity , range, or bad hands?  Or possibly the way the jets employ him?    I dont recall him dropping a bunch of easy picks so its one of the others.  

He plays Linebacker most of the time, you can pick a pass off when your Blitzing or Sacking the QB.

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6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Most full time DBs get 2 picks or more in one season by accident

I can recall watching at least 4 plays where the ball clearly bounces off Jamals hands. He doesn't have the ball skills to make those plays, that's why he's used in the perfect role now.

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15 minutes ago, slats said:

This is my take on Adams. You replace him with Average SS X and you're going to get about 85% of what Adams gives you on the field, and I'm probably being generous to Adams with that number. Then you get the point that @T0mShane keeps pounding, that Adams strengths are LB strengths, and that this year -hopefully- the Jets will have both Mosley and Wiliamson at ILB. How often are you going to need to bring Adams to the line of scrimmage with both those guys on the field? And the Jets are deep at ILB, too. 

And in this year's draft, they took a true FS and an Edge in the third round. Hmmm...  You move Maye to SS, have Davis playing not Adams' position, but the position of Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed, plenty of guys in the middle to disguise blitzes along with Zuniga as a situational guy as a rookie, and I'm really not feeling like the Jets defense is suffering all that much without him. 

Then you tell me that the Jets could get a 1st and 3rd, or a first and a guy like Michael Gallup for Adams? I mean, c'mon, sign me up, already! 

Dude, you don't sign a SS to a huge extension because you have your QB under control for two years, you string your SS along for the three years that you effectively have him under control for and save that money for your QB. If Darnold puts up a passer rating near 100 with something like 4000 yards this season, I want to be ready to open negotiations with him immediately. 

You think continuing this dance with Adams for 3 years (yes I understand the math and that we have control over him for that amount of time) is a good idea for the team?

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2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Maybe it’s more about we re home not making money and he’s pissed he is only going to make 3.5 million this year with a big raise next year?  
Or we liked him on his rookie Contract, but not so much at nearly 20 million a year?
Or we don’t want the drama?
Or all of the above

Take your pick

Yeah maybe.

Probably not though.

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7 minutes ago, BCJet said:

You think continuing this dance with Adams for 3 years (yes I understand the math and that we have control over him for that amount of time) is a good idea for the team?

I think I wouldn't even consider extending him this year. I wouldn't give it a thought. Next year could be a different story. But I really like the idea of trading him. 

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12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As to this, if Darnold puts up 4,000 yards, ~28 TDs and 12 INTs, the Jets are probably going to be 10-6 or better. If Jamal has a surreal statistical season (for him) and puts up 100 tackles with four picks, the needle doesn’t move one bit as it relates to expectations. I know that this wasn’t what you were arguing, but I wanted to hammer Adams again.

I just wanna say this about paying Jamal or Sam, too...

I think it was @Sonny Werblin in another Jamal thread who posted Sportrac's value of Jamal to be $14.5M/year for six years. I read that and I thought, "I'd do that deal with Jamal right now!" Give him a decent signing bonus that you now get to spread out over eight years and by the time the extension actually kicks in his salary will look like a bargain. And then I thought, Jamal will bitch like a little girl after getting his money if it looks like the Jets got a bargain a few years from now and we'll wind up doing this same thing again down the road. 

Whereas if Sam breaks out and the Jets come to him and say, "we'd like to pay you like an upper tier QB today," Sam, I just feel, wouldn't complain that he wasn't top tier anymore four or five years from now. 

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1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

He plays Linebacker most of the time, you can pick a pass off when your Blitzing or Sacking the QB.

Can?  Or cant?

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1 hour ago, slats said:

This is my take on Adams. You replace him with Average SS X and you're going to get about 85% of what Adams gives you on the field, and I'm probably being generous to Adams with that number. Then you get the point that @T0mShane keeps pounding, that Adams strengths are LB strengths, and that this year -hopefully- the Jets will have both Mosley and Wiliamson at ILB. How often are you going to need to bring Adams to the line of scrimmage with both those guys on the field? And the Jets are deep at ILB, too. 

And in this year's draft, they took a true FS and an Edge in the third round. Hmmm...  You move Maye to SS, have Davis playing not Adams' position, but the position of Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed, plenty of guys in the middle to disguise blitzes along with Zuniga as a situational guy as a rookie, and I'm really not feeling like the Jets defense is suffering all that much without him. 

Then you tell me that the Jets could get a 1st and 3rd, or a first and a guy like Michael Gallup for Adams? I mean, c'mon, sign me up, already! 

Dude, you don't sign a SS to a huge extension because you have your QB under control for two years, you string your SS along for the three years that you effectively have him under control for and save that money for your QB. If Darnold puts up a passer rating near 100 with something like 4000 yards this season, I want to be ready to open negotiations with him immediately. 

This is where I get tripped up with posts like this.  Lots of solid thoughts here, but then branched out to stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense 

What doesthe depth of our ILBs have to do with Adams?  I think you are implying that he plays a similar role to those two when down near the LOS, which is not remotely true.

Then you talk about Ed Reed and Polamalu's position even though they played different positions and were not very similar as players.

Then you talk about not signing a SS to a huge extension because you have a QB under control.  That's exactly what the Steelers did with Polamalu.  They signed Polamalu to an extension a year before Big Ben.  Highest salary in the league for a safety at that time.  Then the following off-season the signed big Ben and won  a SuperBowl within a year or two.

People get so definitive when talking about this situation, but reality is there are PLENTY of ways to build a championship caliber team.  The only real concrete requirement appears to be Solid QB at minimum.

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3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This is where I get tripped up with posts like this.  Lots of solid thoughts here, but then branched out to stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense 

What doesthe depth of our ILBs have to do with Adams?  I think you are implying that he plays a similar role to those two when down near the LOS, which is not remotely true.

Adams does play a similar role to an ILB, and was employed in that capacity last year to the tune of All Pro recognition. With Mosley and Williamson on the field, he's not going to needed in that position nearly as often, and, frankly, he's just not well suited to play deep. He's not especially athletic. What's special about him is that he's smart and plays hard every down. 

4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Then you talk about Ed Reed and Polamalu's position even though they played different positions and were not very similar as players.

They're both FS's, a position the Jets have been filling with a SS in Maye since the two men were drafted. The Jets didn't have a ball-hawking safety, and now with Ashtyn Davis, they just might. I like the idea of him as a full-time starter. 

4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Then you talk about not signing a SS to a huge extension because you have a QB under control.  That's exactly what the Steelers did with Polamalu.  They signed Polamalu to an extension a year before Big Ben.  Highest salary in the league for a safety at that time.  Then the following off-season the signed big Ben and won  a SuperBowl within a year or two.

As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't even consider extending Adams this year. The Jets have him under control for the next two years and can slap the franchise tag on him for much less than he's looking for the year after that. Polamalu wasn't extended until after his fourth year, not his third. At that point, he had ten career interceptions, four forced fumbles, and seven sacks. There's no comparison between the two players, Polamalu was significantly more valuable. 

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

Adams does play a similar role to an ILB, and was employed in that capacity last year to the tune of All Pro recognition. With Mosley and Williamson on the field, he's not going to needed in that position nearly as often, and, frankly, he's just not well suited to play deep. He's not especially athletic. What's special about him is that he's smart and plays hard every down. 

They're both FS's, a position the Jets have been filling with a SS in Maye since the two men were drafted. The Jets didn't have a ball-hawking safety, and now with Ashtyn Davis, they just might. I like the idea of him as a full-time starter. 

As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't even consider extending Adams this year. The Jets have him under control for the next two years and can slap the franchise tag on him for much less than he's looking for the year after that. Polamalu wasn't extended until after his fourth year, not his third. At that point, he had ten career interceptions, four forced fumbles, and seven sacks. There's no comparison between the two players, Polamalu was significantly more valuable. 

I agree with everything you say besides Polamalu and Reed both being FS. Reed started his career at SS (he won DPOY award playing SS), but played most of his career at FS. Polamalu on the other hand, had the ball skills of a FS but played SS. Both were amazing in their own ways. Just think people confuse this part alot.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I just wanna say this about paying Jamal or Sam, too...

I think it was @Sonny Werblin in another Jamal thread who posted Sportrac's value of Jamal to be $14.5M/year for six years. I read that and I thought, "I'd do that deal with Jamal right now!" Give him a decent signing bonus that you now get to spread out over eight years and by the time the extension actually kicks in his salary will look like a bargain. And then I thought, Jamal will bitch like a little girl after getting his money if it looks like the Jets got a bargain a few years from now and we'll wind up doing this same thing again down the road. 

Whereas if Sam breaks out and the Jets come to him and say, "we'd like to pay you like an upper tier QB today," Sam, I just feel, wouldn't complain that he wasn't top tier anymore four or five years from now. 

It’s not about the contract total for jamal and his agent, it’s about guaranteed money and money over the first three years, which is virtually guaranteed. Both sides can talk about the same number of years and contract total, but depending on how the payments are structured and calendared they can be very far apart.

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3 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Solely posting a link without your spin leaves me wondering what you re trying to say.  
 

Yes Adams is good, but his pass defense isn’t close to Revis in his prime.  That’s my point and you haven’t refuted it with that link.

no one is comparing adams "pass defense" (as a ss) to revis (a cb)...

the point is that they are both great players at their respective positions -- and adams IS a good pass defender at strong safety. 

whereas adams would cover TE, Revis would typically cover the SE. that being said, adams actually has played CB for this team...

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6 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

I agree with everything you say besides Polamalu and Reed both being FS. Reed started his career at SS (he won DPOY award playing SS), but played most of his career at FS. Polamalu on the other hand, had the ball skills of a FS but played SS. Both were amazing in their own ways. Just think people confuse this part alot.

I think it just comes down to those guys being most valuable in pass defense, while Adams' production mostly comes from playing in a LB-like capacity at the LoS. The Jets have plenty of guys who can makeup his production at the LoS, and a DC in Williams who I trust to scheme it up. 

And I really, really like the idea of Davis in that true ball-hawking, center fielder role. 

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4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

It’s not about the contract total for jamal and his agent, it’s about guaranteed money and money over the first three years, which is virtually guaranteed. Both sides can talk about the same number of years and contract total, but depending on how the payments are structured and calendared they can be very far apart.

Yes. 

So a deal now would be an extension that would kick in after this year at $3.5M and next at $9.8M. Say you give him a $15M bonus and guarantee the first year of the extension. Four years after he signs, he's under contract for something like $10-12M, you don't think he's squawking about not being paid enough? 

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Look at what these teams received for elite talent at arguably more important positions.   People expecting a huge draft return may be disappointed.


The Pats got a 1st rounder for Seymour.

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I didn't even see this until now. My initial reaction is that not a single guy listed was in his prime which is a key factor to this. What are they all 29+? That's when you don't give out the big contact. Adams is 24. You want the

 

 

Several were 29 and that is absolutely still guys in their prime, and I gave evidence of that. Seymour reached the Pro Bowl twice AFTER getting traded.

 

You lose.

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image.thumb.png.179aad35076b1c1cd6976413f4db0e69.png
stats against all DBs since he came into the league.  doesn't matter if he doesn't get interceptions, he's still top of the league in literally everything else.



Those are all Linebacker stats. lol.
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