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Gary Meyers reporting that Jamal and Jets have hit impass over contract, trade possible.

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Jamal is traded to the ravens 
The ravens go 15-1 and win the super bowl
Jamal's a great player and a hall of Famer and totally worth the cash
And suddenly you were  wrong about him.
That's how this works, right?
 


I’d much rather see Jamal go be the 7th most important player on a title team than make him the centerpiece of an 8-8 team here.

If we want to win in the long run, resource allocation will matter.
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everyone keeps pigeon holing him as a safety.  and everyone's idea of a safety is the guy in the back that plays the pass.  there are 2 safety positions and jamal doesn't play the FS positon.  he plays the SS postion.  a few years back the "edge" position came out of nowhere and now everyone goes bonkers over it.  like i said before, every analyst went NUTS this draft over Isaiah Simmons, a "hybrid" type, LB/SS/Nickel CB that could play everywhere.  That's Jamal.


And Isaiah Simmons was a bad pick too. So what’s your point?

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Adams does play a similar role to an ILB, and was employed in that capacity last year to the tune of All Pro recognition. With Mosley and Williamson on the field, he's not going to needed in that position nearly as often, and, frankly, he's just not well suited to play deep. He's not especially athletic. What's special about him is that he's smart and plays hard every down. 

They're both FS's, a position the Jets have been filling with a SS in Maye since the two men were drafted. The Jets didn't have a ball-hawking safety, and now with Ashtyn Davis, they just might. I like the idea of him as a full-time starter. 

As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't even consider extending Adams this year. The Jets have him under control for the next two years and can slap the franchise tag on him for much less than he's looking for the year after that. Polamalu wasn't extended until after his fourth year, not his third. At that point, he had ten career interceptions, four forced fumbles, and seven sacks. There's no comparison between the two players, Polamalu was significantly more valuable. 

Adams does not play anything resembling an inside linebacker and Polamalu was a strong safety.   

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Adams does not play anything resembling an inside linebacker and Polamalu was a strong safety.   

 

So what is he then, an OLB/WLB? Because he doesn’t put up DB numbers, that’s for sure.

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I don't care if we trade him or not as I think I am willing to let Douglas tug the reigns until or if he proves futile. I will say however that the Jets cannot afford to trade him for draft capital from teams like the Boys and Ravens. That would be very low picks and not suitable for a building club trying to get back to respectability.  If traded they need to look at lesser clubs who are looking for a so called star for their fan base or a coach who thinks a win or two more can help save his seat.  Detroit comes to mind as one example. The haul would be better than Baltimore for sure and probably Dallas as well. I don't want to rid Adams for pick 26 and a low third. Just my opinion and I am indifferent to the Adams situation, like him as a player but do not want to just trade him for a low first and third.

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35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So what is he then, an OLB/WLB? Because he doesn’t put up DB numbers, that’s for sure.

Yes, I would say the closet comparison for a linebacker would be a 4-3 WLB. Anthony Barr type player, but that's not a great comp either.  He plays all over the formation and us asked to do more things in coverage than LBs are 

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4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Yes, I would say the closet comparison for a linebacker would be a 4-3 WLB. Anthony Barr type player, but that's not a great comp either.  He plays all over the formation and us asked to do more things in coverage than LBs are 

Jamal Adams plays strong safety. That’s his position. It isn’t more complicated. He often plays typical downhill safety covering a large section of the field,  playing bracket coverage, flexing to CB on TEs that split out wide (remember the redzone fades to Gronk on consecutive plays - both incomplete?); he creeps up to the line from the traditional safety spot and sometimes he lines up in the box.

He is a strong safety. He doesn’t play ILB, OLB or any kind of LB. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


The Pats got a 1st rounder for Seymour.

 

If we only get a first rounder for Adams a lot of people will be saying we got fleeced

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If we only get a first rounder for Adams a lot of people will be saying we got fleeced


No argument here. Just pointing out that the Pats got a good deal for Seymour.

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10 minutes ago, Vader said:

Jamal Adams plays strong safety. That’s his position. It isn’t more complicated. He often plays typical downhill safety covering a large section of the field,  playing bracket coverage, flexing to CB on TEs that split out wide (remember the redzone fades to Gronk on consecutive plays - both incomplete?); he creeps up to the line from the traditional safety spot and sometimes he lines up in the box.

He is a strong safety. He doesn’t play ILB, OLB or any kind of LB. 

If that's your take then that's your take.  I disagree. This isn't 1988 and he's not just a strong safety.

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


No argument here. Just pointing out that the Pats got a good deal for Seymour.

 

If you consider a first rder for an All Pro a good deal then yes.

But that trade is the exception to the rule

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

If that's your take then that's your take.  I disagree. This isn't 1988 and he's not just a string safety.

haha what? It’s not a take. It’s simply reality. Watch the games. Go watch any strong safety pre snap alignment and what they do pre snap and through the snap.

Strong safety usually has to make reads on run / pass based on offensive personnel/formation, defensive call/personnel. They often creep up to the line or bail out to cover. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Yes. 

So a deal now would be an extension that would kick in after this year at $3.5M and next at $9.8M. Say you give him a $15M bonus and guarantee the first year of the extension. Four years after he signs, he's under contract for something like $10-12M, you don't think he's squawking about not being paid enough? 

Did they offer that?

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6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Did they offer that?

No, I’m speculating. 

The only thing I’ve seen reported is that Jamal wants a deal now and the Jets want to wait a year, with no talk of finances. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


I’d much rather see Jamal go be the 7th most important player on a title team than make him the centerpiece of an 8-8 team here.

If we want to win in the long run, resource allocation will matter.

 

So who exactly should we allocate the resources to?

Lets say we give Adams a 5 year $80 million deal (which would be nuts given we have him under contract but for arguments sake).  Who in the next 5 years do we owe a huge contract to besides Sam?  

We will never pay a RB what we are paying Bell, and that $14 will come off the books after next season.

Becton, god willing, will become the highest paid LT in the game, and that won't be for 4 years.  

Denzel Mims, god willing, will command a top 5 WR contract, also not for 4 years.

Bryce Hall, Chris Herndon, or ???? will hopefully command big second contracts, all 3/4 years from now.

So again - if we dont pay Jamal, who are we going to get in free agency that will be worth that $14-16 million?

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Several were 29 and that is absolutely still guys in their prime, and I gave evidence of that. Seymour reached the Pro Bowl twice AFTER getting traded.

 

You lose.

Oh, ok

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4 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Can?  Or cant?

Can’t 😁

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


I’d much rather see Jamal go be the 7th most important player on a title team than make him the centerpiece of an 8-8 team here.

If we want to win in the long run, resource allocation will matter.

 

What's the pay scale for the 7th most important player on a team?

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What's the pay scale for the 7th most important player on a team?

 

Salary does not always = impact. Adams is going to be the poster boy for non-QB market inefficiency the moment he gets his 2nd contract.

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So who exactly should we allocate the resources to?

Lets say we give Adams a 5 year $80 million deal (which would be nuts given we have him under contract but for arguments sake).  Who in the next 5 years do we owe a huge contract to besides Sam?  

We will never pay a RB what we are paying Bell, and that $14 will come off the books after next season.

Becton, god willing, will become the highest paid LT in the game, and that won't be for 4 years.  

Denzel Mims, god willing, will command a top 5 WR contract, also not for 4 years.

Bryce Hall, Chris Herndon, or ???? will hopefully command big second contracts, all 3/4 years from now.

So again - if we dont pay Jamal, who are we going to get in free agency that will be worth that $14-16 million?

 

 

As early as 2021 we’ll need to start negotiating Darnold’s new contract, which could very easily hit the $35-40M per year range. That can’t be understated.

 

If you’re ignoring his deal, there are plenty of things we can do with the money that would go to Jamal. Just at WR, the likes of Keenan Allen, JuJu Smith-Schuster, T.Y. Hilton, Allen Robinson, Kenny Golladay and Cooper Kupp are all scheduled to hit free agency after 2020.

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


And Isaiah Simmons was a bad pick too. So what’s your point?

 

That’s an interesting take. 
 

Isaiah Simmons was a bad pick. After watching him destroy people at Clemson, I think I’m gonna have to disagree. 

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3 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

If we only get a first rounder for Adams a lot of people will be saying we got fleeced


 

7EB3458A-03C7-433B-9309-EF449AA4BBFF.gif

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47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Salary does not always = impact. Adams is going to be the poster boy for non-QB market inefficiency the moment he gets his 2nd contract.

How do teams not know this?

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How do teams not know this?

 Consensus viewpoints get locked in on players. Teams get stuff wrong because of that. Have you not seen Moneyball?  

 

 

In any case Adams IS indeed a useful player for a contending team. But only one that already has several other important pieces in place, and thinks they’re “one player away”. A Ravens team that went one-and-done in the playoffs, getting their asses kicked by a team like the Titans that was built to run the ball, would certainly find that usefulness in Adams.

 

But for this Jets team, as it’s built, he’s an awful fit and not a player you build a team around. This team is built to handle the run just fine without the great Jamal Adams. What WE need is to spend money on offense and add speed and athleticism on defense.

 

 

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That’s an interesting take. 
 
Isaiah Simmons was a bad pick. After watching him destroy people at Clemson, I think I’m gonna have to disagree. 


Even if you want to maintain that argument, Jamal Adams isn’t like him. Simmons is bigger and far more athletic. It’s a poor comparison.

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8 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

That may be true but why do you think that Adams doesnt have them?  Lack of opportunity , range, or bad hands?  Or possibly the way the jets employ him?    I dont recall him dropping a bunch of easy picks so its one of the others.  

I just don’t think ball hawking is his game. He’s a Linebacker who can occasionally cover

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 


PFF also says Kerry Rhodes > Jamal Adams.

 

 

Rhodes was better in coverage

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26 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

How do teams not know this?

 

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Consensus viewpoints get locked in on players. Have you not seen Moneyball?

In any case Adams IS indeed a useful player for a contending team. But only one that already has several other important pieces in place, and thinks they’re “one player away”. A Ravens team that got their asses kicked by a team like the Titans, built to run the ball, would certainly find that usefulness in Adams.

But for this Jets team, as it’s built, he’s an awful fit and not a player you build a team around.

 

1 When does a GM then know when his team is “one player away” — and then time his roster management moves and signings?

2 And how long is that “one player away” window?

3 Finally, what is the consequence of emphatically mistiming that window?

1 the jets finished the season 6-2 with Darnold, finally healthy, turning a corner — and considering the injuries and roster. Darnold will be expected to continue this progress and/or “make the leap” in 2020, his 3rd year. Darnold also finally has some consistency in a offensive system. This is the year that Darnold will begin to feel the pressure to put up or shut up. He’s the prospective franchise QB, and actually finished the backend 8 games of 2019:

1947 yds / 61.4% / 13 pass TDs / 2 rush TDs / 4 INT

If you extrapolate that across an entire year, it’s 4000 yards / 61.4% / 30 total TDs / 8 INTs

Like it or not, the current iteration of the Jets is mid-cycle. We see it as premature Bc Darnold in year two 1st half, sickness, regression and roster injuries. Without half the bad luck from last year we would have been a playoff contender. But the team is much further ahead than it may seem. 

So, you are the GM. Does trading Adams present value now (and known commodity — all pro) for future value (developmental — no guaranteed impact within 1-2 years) when Darnold will legit be expected to make the leap — does that make sense? To shred the roster for a late 1st round draft pick and a day 2 draft pick? 

Or given this Darnold — Douglas Window, does it make sense to play the odds and expect the prospective FQB to make the leap now and usher in a Competitive Window? 

Does Douglas time this window with Anticipation, with an expectation that this team will be competitive and thus re-sign Adams? 

Or does Douglas time this window for two years down the road when any draft pick would be realistically expected to contribute and when Darnold’s rookie contract is either over or he needs to be resigned?

in other words, does he trade the prime years of an all-pro’s career for uncertain future return because he has timed the competitiveness window of the team for several years down the road as opposed to starting now?

2 if the stats above are where Darnold’s sweet spot is he’s the FQB and his run as FQB begins now and will last through his second contract, which will be given in the next year or so. JD is in year 2 of a 6 year contract. His best and maybe only chance for success is for Darnold to make make that leap in 2020 (Or begin to), and sustain it into 2021. That gives Sam Darnold his second contract which would take him through JDs contract. Even if Darnold shows progress but doesn’t double up his TD-INT rate, Darnolds window still coincides with JD’s. Only if Darnold disintegrates in 2020 does the entire QB project reset.

3 mistiming this window: say we trade Jamal before the season. Say also Darnold continues his progress and blows up this year.

i wonder if keeping that all-pro instead of getting a 1st and 3rd in the future was worth it, knowing that you could have been getting all-pro value Now, and not some future, uncertain value that needs to Be developed. 

This is the difference between winning the division, making the playoffs, going on a run, creating a winning culture and timing a window of competitiveness with anticipation.

if Sam as expected makes the jump in 2020, the competitive run begins. That’s the time to resign Jamal Adams for. The Jets don’t have to plan to be in perpetual beta. I’m sure that Douglas is not planning for perpetual beta.

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57 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I just don't understand why anyone would want to give Adams a monster contract THIS year.  He's not due for negotiation until next year.  Why waste the extra cap money?

The idea that he's "outplayed his contract" is silly.  When people like Gholston, or Trumaine start giving money back, because they under played their contract, I'll consider it.  LOL

That, and the fact that no one has any idea what the cap is going to look like next season, would make giving Adams a monster contract now a very stupid idea. 

Jets are under 0 pressure to pay him now  

I agree that Adams will probably have to wait for any extension until next year. He’s gonna have to suck it up and play for below market value. But that contract needs to be restructured after the season, IMO, to match production. Especially if he has another pro bowl/All pro season. 
 

Jamal Adams is being underpaid by at least 10 million dollars this coming season. Unless you think E.Jackson, Byard, Mathieu, and Landon freaking Collins deserve 10 million more than All Pro Jamal Adams. Adams is better than all of them, with the possible exception of Eddie Jackson. But he’s a FS, so different position technically. 

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36 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I just don’t think ball hawking is his game. He’s a Linebacker who can occasionally cover

And rush the passer, strip the QB, and lay a ton of bricks on receivers. 
 

Minor details. I know. 

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15 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

I agree that Adams will probably have to wait for any extension until next year. He’s gonna have to suck it up and play for below market value. But that contract needs to be restructured after the season, IMO, to match production. Especially if he has another pro bowl/All pro season. 
 

Jamal Adams is being underpaid by at least 10 million dollars this coming season. Unless you think E.Jackson, Byard, Mathieu, and Landon freaking Collins deserve 10 million more than All Pro Jamal Adams. Adams is better than all of them, with the possible exception of Eddie Jackson. But he’s a FS, so different position technically. 

It really doesn't mattr what I think, or what you think, he's under contract.

If it's fun now, can't wait (If Adams gets silly and is looking for QB money) until the Jets slap the $11.5M franchise tag on him.

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1 When does a GM then know when his team is “one player away” — and then time his roster management moves and signings?
2 And how long is that “one player away” window?
3 Finally, what is the consequence of emphatically mistiming that window?

1 the jets finished the season 6-2 with Darnold, finally healthy, turning a corner — and considering the injuries and roster. Darnold will be expected to continue this progress and/or “make the leap” in 2020, his 3rd year. Darnold also finally has some consistency in a offensive system. This is the year that Darnold will begin to feel the pressure to put up or shut up. He’s the prospective franchise QB, and actually finished the backend 8 games of 2019:
1947 yds / 61.4% / 13 pass TDs / 2 rush TDs / 4 INT
If you extrapolate that across an entire year, it’s 4000 yards / 61.4% / 30 total TDs / 8 INTs
Like it or not, the current iteration of the Jets is mid-cycle. We see it as premature Bc Darnold in year two 1st half, sickness, regression and roster injuries. Without half the bad luck from last year we would have been a playoff contender. But the team is much further ahead than it may seem. 
So, you are the GM. Does trading Adams present value now (and known commodity — all pro) for future value (developmental — no guaranteed impact within 1-2 years) when Darnold will legit be expected to make the leap — does that make sense? To shred the roster for a late 1st round draft pick and a day 2 draft pick? 
Or given this Darnold — Douglas Window, does it make sense to play the odds and expect the prospective FQB to make the leap now and usher in a Competitive Window? 
Does Douglas time this window with Anticipation, with an expectation that this team will be competitive and thus re-sign Adams? 
Or does Douglas time this window for two years down the road when any draft pick would be realistically expected to contribute and when Darnold’s rookie contract is either over or he needs to be resigned?
in other words, does he trade the prime years of an all-pro’s career for uncertain future return because he has timed the competitiveness window of the team for several years down the road as opposed to starting now?
2 if the stats above are where Darnold’s sweet spot is he’s the FQB and his run as FQB begins now and will last through his second contract, which will be given in the next year or so. JD is in year 2 of a 6 year contract. His best and maybe only chance for success is for Darnold to make make that leap in 2020 (Or begin to), and sustain it into 2021. That gives Sam Darnold his second contract which would take him through JDs contract. Even if Darnold shows progress but doesn’t double up his TD-INT rate, Darnolds window still coincides with JD’s. Only if Darnold disintegrates in 2020 does the entire QB project reset.
3 mistiming this window: say we trade Jamal before the season. Say also Darnold continues his progress and blows up this year.
i wonder if keeping that all-pro instead of getting a 1st and 3rd in the future was worth it, knowing that you could have been getting all-pro value Now, and not some future, uncertain value that needs to Be developed. 
This is the difference between winning the division, making the playoffs, going on a run, creating a winning culture and timing a window of competitiveness with anticipation.
if Sam as expected makes the jump in 2020, the competitive run begins. That’s the time to resign Jamal Adams for. The Jets don’t have to plan to be in perpetual beta. I’m sure that Douglas is not planning for perpetual beta.




The Ravens went 14-2 last year. I’d say that puts them firmly in the category of team that thinks they’re “one player away”. And rightly so.

The Jets, meanwhile, are several players away. That much is clear.

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And rush the passer, strip the QB, and lay a ton of bricks on receivers. 
 
Minor details. I know. 


Dwayne Haskins and Daniel Jones don’t exactly qualify as QBs. Neither will be starters in this league by 2021/2022.

The schedule is much tougher this year. Don’t expect as many sacks or strips out of Jamal in ‘20.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

 


The Ravens went 14-2 last year. I’d say that puts them firmly in the category of team that thinks they’re “one player away”. And rightly so.

The Jets, meanwhile, are several players away. That much is clear.

 

 

 

The ravens aren’t one player away. They are already there. They win and lose on the merits of that.

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