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4th & 15 Replacing Onside Kicks???

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6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

15 yards wouldn’t be enough.  Just too easy to get 15 yards on a play.  It would be too easy to attempt to give up 30 yards of field position.

4th and 25, then maybe I would consider it.  Maybe!

I agree   I was thinking 4 th and 20 but 25 is ok too.   You dont want to make it more than 25 percent likelihood of converting or it will become the norm to do it all the time

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Ridiculous.  Rugby seems more violent than on side kicks now.

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4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Why not just change onside kicks back to the way they were?

Yes....why not? 

 

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The NFL is the most profitable League in sports, owners are making million, or billions. Why every year are they changing long established rules that I believe don't improve the game? There is an old saying, "if it is not broken, don't fix it." If it doesn't make sense, don't change it. The first year that they play the Super Bowl in another country is the day I will give up the NFL..money runs every aspect in this time, but to screw over the real fans is too much.

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So a potent offense like the Chiefs vs a poor defensive team.  Wins the coin toss.  Receives the kickoff and scores.  Then elects the 4th and 15 rule.  Scores again...and again...until the gun ends the 1st half.  

Do they have to kick off to start the 2nd half?  Or can they continue the 4th and 15 rule?  If so...

Download video

 

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I don't like it! In fact I don't really like any of the rule changes that have been implemented in about the last two decades.

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7 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

So a potent offense like the Chiefs vs a poor defensive team.  Wins the coin toss.  Receives the kickoff and scores.  Then elects the 4th and 15 rule.  Scores again...and again...until the gun ends the 1st half.  

Do they have to kick off to start the 2nd half?  Or can they continue the 4th and 15 rule?  If so...

Teams would be limited to two attempts per game.  

Novel idea, if a team does not want to be in a desperate situation late in a game, where they need a gimmicky rule to try to come back, how about they play better and keep the game close through the first 55+ minutes. 

After you score, you kick.  That's football.  Don't like this proposed change at all.

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20 hours ago, johnnysd said:

The vast majority of on side kicks I would think happen late in a game after a 2 minute drill. The opposing defense is already tired, the team that just scored has a lot of momentum and in that situation 4th and 15 is just not as difficult as it seems.

This exactly.

It goes from a low probability to something relatively easy.  And a group of defenders to a group of exhausted defenders.

SAR I

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Allow them to go back to onside kick formation. Problem solved.

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Make it a 4th and 15 from your own 5 yard line. Fail to convert and you give the opponent the ball on the 5 yard line. That removes the risk of it being exploited.


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Just play regular F-in football the game has been butchered enough.

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i can't imagine many teams opting for this rule if it's implemented.  maybe teams like the ravens or chiefs can convert more often than most but will any team consider it like the saints did in the superbowl?  right now teams can do an onside at any kick off and the starting position of the recovering team is usually around the 50.  if it's 4th and 15 from the 25 then the recovery position will be from the 25 to the 40 or so.  that doesn't help the team that converts but it sure gives the defending team a huge advantage if they defend the play.

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NFL got one right.  Onside kick alternative does not pass.  At least for now.

 

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51 minutes ago, Lith said:

NFL got one right.  Onside kick alternative does not pass.  At least for now.

 

Why should we expect it to come up again? Who, exactly, is pushing for this? It seems to be overwhelmingly unpopular among fans and media folks, unless I am missing something. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 3:06 PM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You don't get to decide to keep the ball anymore than when you decide to keep the ball when you attempt an onside kick. 

It's just replacing the luck of a ball bouncing in the right direction with an offense vs defense talent based outcome..

And you make it seem as if making a4th and 15 is 50/50.

Not to mention the huge downside for that team if they don't make it. You are giving the ball to the other team in GREAT field position.

 

True, but not as much as you think. Or not always, anyway. Consider everything doesn't always play out in the same situation:

If you're in onside kick mode, the clock is your enemy as much the scoreboard, which is why you're attempting it in the first place. If you're pinned, worst case the other team gets a quick score and now you get another chance -- that's why if a RB breaks through for a 1st down, the trailing team often lets him score because the alternative is the clock runs out; a low chance is better than no chance.

However the winning team will now be easier to defend on a short field, and they can't then keep moving the chains as many times because they're already so close to a final "___ & goal" set of downs.

The only saving grace is the trailing team that converts it still has a long way to go, as opposed to recovering an onside kick when they'd have a short field. If there are <30 seconds left and you're down by 1-3 points, even if you convert that 4th & 15 it's unlikely to save you. But recover an onside kick, and now you've got a very good chance of getting into FG range to tie it up or outright win. 

Basically the dynamics of this rule change dramatically whether that trailing team is down by 1-3 or whether they're down 4+ points. 

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What about a cheap defensive holding call? A 5 yard penalty and a 1st down.

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On 5/23/2020 at 12:25 AM, GreenReaper said:

So a potent offense like the Chiefs vs a poor defensive team.  Wins the coin toss.  Receives the kickoff and scores.  Then elects the 4th and 15 rule.  Scores again...and again...until the gun ends the 1st half.  

Do they have to kick off to start the 2nd half?  Or can they continue the 4th and 15 rule?  If so...

 

I was thinking the same thing, Mahomes gets on a real role, they may have the ball 4 or 5 straight possessions.  Especially once the other team's defense tires out.

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