Report: Ravens in trade discussions for Jamal Adams

[Larz]

Douglas asked the cowboys for tyron Smith 

he is correct to want nfl players and not draft picks for a 1st team all pro top 30 player in the league. A 2021 draft pick is crappy return value 

[Bugg]

On 5/25/2020 at 11:07 PM, T0mShane said:

Prediction: they won’t trade for, nor will they pay for, Jamal Adams

This looks very much like a player and his agent trying to get other clubs interested rather than genuine. First it was the Cowboys, now it's the Ravens, it will be somebody else next week. But how do you sell devoting this kind of cap space to a safety? Jets can keep him cost controlled 3 seasons. And the new collective bargaining agreement makes holding out a very bad choice. Think he's a very good safety, but that's been the point with Adams since the day he was drafted. His position and production are way out of balance with these contract demands. It's unlikely the Jets or any team is likely to meet them. 

[Larz]

right guard Marshal Yanda, left tackle Ronnie Stanley, tight end Mark Andrews, cornerbacks Marlon Humphrey and Marcus Peters, outside linebacker judon 

 

this is the list I would shop from. 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Larz said:

right guard Marshal Yanda

Yanda retired.

[St Louie Jet Fan]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yanda retired.

Then Im sure the Ravens would be happy to include him in a package deal.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'm just not a fan of this kind of projection, the "if we take out all the bad stuff, our guy is great!"

I'll love it if he puts up those kinds of numbers, be assured.  I'm just not seeing it as a sure thing based on what happened in a cherry picked sample last year.  But I hope you're right. 

I'll say this, presuming it happens, opening day 2020 is going to be very interesting.  Must see TV, to see how a no-mono Sam starts his third season.

If every season has this relatively easy stretch for all 16 games, we’ll do great. Until the playoffs, lol. But at least we’ll be there, and our QB can stat-compile his way to a cap-crippling contract extension that also prevents the team from taking any chances on drafting an elite QB. 

I’m quite sure I like Darnold better than you do at this point, but it goes without saying that he’s got to put up those numbers or better when it the opponents aren’t creampuffs and backups. Otherwise he’s 2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick, except he’s Fitzpatrick that the team locks itself into for a decade after investing a high 1st rounder plus three 2nd rounders for the privilege. 

[derp]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yanda retired.

And is down to 245 pounds.

Maybe he could switch to strong safety?

[Lith]

 

[RoadFan]

31 minutes ago, Larz said:

right guard Marshal Yanda, left tackle Ronnie Stanley, tight end Mark Andrews, cornerbacks Marlon Humphrey and Marcus Peters, outside linebacker judon 

 

this is the list I would shop from. 

 

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yanda retired.

 

 

[chirorob]

2 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

 

Beat me to it.

"This guy here is dead"

"Cross him off then"

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

@Losmeister I missed the point and didn't even realize you were correct. My bad. Your are right. We agree...

 

Fixed it

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:58 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

I have yet to see someone make a coherent argument showing that a Jamal Adams contract would prevent the Jets from signing other key players. Feel free to lay it out if you have one. What important contracts wouldn't we be able to do if Jamal was paid as the top safety in the league for 5 minutes until the next guy gets paid?

When you draft a player and they become an all-pro level player, you have first dibs on retaining them for the prime years. Those are the big second contracts you want to give out. It's the ~30 year old+ guys other teams are letting go that are looking for their third contract that you want to avoid paying for prior performance.

Good teams build largely through the draft, retain most of their top tier drafted players for a 2nd contract and don't give out many big contracts to ~30+ players. 

 

I understand the sentiment, but then why must only the Jets extend him? Why aren’t there 20 teams pushing each other out of the way to take advantage of the Jets’ extreme myopia by offering the type of package so many here think he’s worth?

It’s not you - we’ve heard this here for years whenever the Jets entertained shopping a player who wasn’t another Jets bust - but it’s an argument that I’ve felt never made much sense. It’s borne totally out of emotion.

As far as the contract aspect of it, that’s bonus. Plus it’s just the case that a team with an extra ~$20MM in cap space is more likely to make a play for a veteran (via trade or FA) in that price range. I don’t think on paper his presence prevents one more signing so much as it’s addititve to a presumed package of picks that can be spent on more of a difference-maker.

The pick(s) they get for him, plus the extra veteran star they are then more likely to sign, would have a greater cumulative effect than keeping Adams anywhere near that price range. This is the rationale. It doesn’t make it so, since we don’t today know who those upcoming players are, but the team also doesn’t keep trading away its high picks to other teams so we can get first dibs on their players soon reaching FA status. Nor does any winner. 

Time will tell which was the right move in hindsight.

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, Bugg said:

This looks very much like a player and his agent trying to get other clubs interested rather than genuine. First it was the Cowboys, now it's the Ravens, it will be somebody else next week. But how do you sell devoting this kind of cap space to a safety? Jets can keep him cost controlled 3 seasons. And the new collective bargaining agreement makes holding out a very bad choice. Think he's a very good safety, but that's been the point with Adams since the day he was drafted. His position and production are way out of balance with these contract demands. It's unlikely the Jets or any team is likely to meet them. 

I also think Dallas and Baltimore are the top two teams on Adams’ personal wish list and it’s how the names of those two teams became public knowledge. I think it’s clear that Douglas doesn’t tell anyone anything, but we know that Michael Irvin is down in Texas broadcasting various trade packages for Jamal Adams. If Douglas wanted to have some fun, he should let it be known that Cincinnati is hot for Jamal and is offering up multiple ones. 

[The Crusher]

54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yanda retired.

Pefect!

[Larz]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yanda retired.

Damn. Do I have to put thought into these posts now ?

 I’m way too lazy for that lol

 

[Barry McCockinner]

33 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I understand the sentiment, but then why must only the Jets extend him? Why aren’t there 20 teams pushing each other out of the way to take advantage of the Jets’ extreme myopia by offering the type of package so many here think he’s worth?

It’s not you - we’ve heard this here for years whenever the Jets entertained shopping a player who wasn’t another Jets bust - but it’s an argument that I’ve felt never made much sense. It’s borne totally out of emotion.

As far as the contract aspect of it, that’s bonus. Plus it’s just the case that a team with an extra ~$20MM in cap space is more likely to make a play for a veteran (via trade or FA) in that price range. I don’t think on paper his presence prevents one more signing so much as it’s addititve to a presumed package of picks that can be spent on more of a difference-maker.

The pick(s) they get for him, plus the extra veteran star they are then more likely to sign, would have a greater cumulative effect than keeping Adams anywhere near that price range. This is the rationale. It doesn’t make it so, since we don’t today know who those upcoming players are, but the team also doesn’t keep trading away its high picks to other teams so we can get first dibs on their players soon reaching FA status. Nor does any winner. 

Time will tell which was the right move in hindsight.

I honestly don't get why you'd ask me this question. The obvious difference is other teams have to give up multiple draft picks to get him first. The Jets have already made their draft investment, and now how first dibs on signing him long term. If he continues to play at a high level and goes to free agency he'll have the type of interest you mention.

The value of the draft pick when you hit is you get the early years relatively cheap, and first dibs on the second contract.

[Big_Slick]

On 5/26/2020 at 12:06 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

JD is evidently TAKING calls, not MAKING them.  But you believe what you want, I guess. 

And I absolutely think Jamal's agent could be shopping him.  Because, again, he can't hold out, and evidently JD has no intention of paying him this offseason.  Which is of course the right move for the team.

Adams wants no part of playing this year on "only" $3.5M.  So if he has to shoot his way out of town he'll do exactly that.  

I could be wrong but I read that the players agent needs the teams permission to seek a trade.

[Big_Slick]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:58 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

I have yet to see someone make a coherent argument showing that a Jamal Adams contract would prevent the Jets from signing other key players. Feel free to lay it out if you have one. What important contracts wouldn't we be able to do if Jamal was paid as the top safety in the league for 5 minutes until the next guy gets paid?

When you draft a player and they become an all-pro level player, you have first dibs on retaining them for the prime years. Those are the big second contracts you want to give out. It's the ~30 year old+ guys other teams are letting go that are looking for their third contract that you want to avoid paying for prior performance.

Good teams build largely through the draft, retain most of their top tier drafted players for a 2nd contract and don't give out many big contracts to ~30+ players. 

 

Jets own JA for 3 more seasons, 4th year, 5th year option and franchise tag and there's not a damn thing he can do about it. Except bitch and cry like a dawg.

Current contract that was negotiated by the CBA
2020 4th year - 3.5M
2021 5th year - 9.9M
2022 Franchise tag 11-12M (current tag value for a SS)
25M over next three seasons

Conservative contract extension 5 year deal @ 17M per
2020 17M
2021 17M
2022 17M
51M over next three seasons

That's 25M that could be used on impact positions FA's or for Sam's contract extension.

[Barry McCockinner]

23 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Jets own JA for 3 more seasons, 4th year, 5th year option and franchise tag and there's not a damn thing he can do about it. Except bitch and cry like a dawg.

Current contract that was negotiated by the CBA
2020 4th year - 3.5M
2021 5th year - 9.9M
2022 Franchise tag 11-12M (current tag value for a SS)
25M over next three seasons

Conservative contract extension 5 year deal @ 17M per
2020 17M
2021 17M
2022 17M
51M over next three seasons

That's 25M that could be used on impact positions FA's or for Sam's contract extension.

Signing Adams at 17/per doesn't prevent the Jets from locking up Darnold long term if he earns an extension. Funny people already have Darnold locked into his second contract and he hasn't come anywhere near earning one yet but the guy who has clearly outplayed his current deal needs to go.

?

[Big_Slick]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Signing Adams at 17/per doesn't prevent the Jets from locking up Darnold long term if he earns an extension. Funny people already have Darnold locked into his second contract and he hasn't come anywhere near earning one yet but the guy who has clearly outplayed his current deal needs to go.

?

OK - ignore Sam's extension. What about the extra 25M in cap space we could use to sign premium position FA's?

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Big_Slick said:

OK - ignore Sam's extension. What about the extra 25M in cap space we could use to sign premium position FA's?

"premium position FA's" 

lulz

Spending big in FA is not the way to build a team. You fill gaps with 2nd and 3rd tier guys. You want to hold on to the top tier guys you draft while they're in their prime. That's what Adams is. You lock him up for his 2nd contract. If we start drafting too many top tier guys then we should start worrying about positional value. Until then, just lock up the top tier guys we have.

 

[EM31]

11 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

"premium position FA's" 

lulz

Spending big in FA is not the way to build a team. You fill gaps with 2nd and 3rd tier guys. You want to hold on to the top tier guys you draft while they're in their prime. That's what Adams is. You lock him up for his 2nd contract. If we start drafting too many top tier guys then we should start worrying about positional value. Until then, just lock up the top tier guys we have.

 

Adams is simply not worth the money he is asking at a position where we are already deep.  We control him for two more years at a reasonable price and there is zero reason to pay him now just because he is acting like a whiney school girl.

Keep him for two more years at cheap.  Take a long look at your other depth at that position in order to evaluate exactly what you have behind him. 

Kick him to the curb after that or compete with other clubs at the market value at that time

See if he is prepared to kill his own market value in the mean time by acting out in the media or holding out

If he takes the only real option that he has open to him which is to play for his next contract on the field then maybe entertain trade offers at the end of next year.

This is a business.

My advice to Jets fans is do not buy an Adams Jersey any time soon.  It will not age well

[Big_Slick]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

"premium position FA's" 

lulz

Spending big in FA is not the way to build a team. You fill gaps with 2nd and 3rd tier guys. You want to hold on to the top tier guys you draft while they're in their prime. That's what Adams is. You lock him up for his 2nd contract. If we start drafting too many top tier guys then we should start worrying about positional value. Until then, just lock up the top tier guys we have.

 

The fact remains the Jets do not have to lock Adams up, we already own him for the next three years. I agree that you don't build a team by signing older high priced FA's. Look for value and use FA to fill holes while building through the draft. You don't flush 25M down the toilet just to keep Adams happy.

[Barry McCockinner]

15 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

The fact remains the Jets do not have to lock Adams up, we already own him for the next three years. I agree that you don't build a team by signing older high priced FA's. Look for value and use FA to fill holes while building through the draft. You don't flush 25M down the toilet just to keep Adams happy.

Yea I mostly agree that we don't have to do it this year. 

[Jetsfan80]

58 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Spending big in FA is not the way to build a team. You fill gaps with 2nd and 3rd tier guys. 

Once you have an established core, you can make a splurge or 2.  

The following contending/successful teams of late have done this:

• Chiefs
  • DE Frank Clark (5-year, $104M deal w/$62.3M gtd in 2019)
  • FS/CB Tyrann Mathieu (3-year, $42M deal w/$26.8M gtd in 2019)
• 49ers
  • EDGE Dee Ford (5-year, $85M deal w/$20.5M gtd 2019)
  • CB Richard Sherman (3-year, $27.5M deal in 2018)
• Packers
  • EDGE Za'Daris Smith (4-year, $66M deal w/$20M gtd in 2019)
  • EDGE Preston Smith (4-year, $52M deal w/$16M gtd in 2019)
• Ravens
  • CB Marcus Peters (traded for and then signed to 3-year, $42M extension in 2019)
  • FS Earl Thomas (4-year, $55M deal w/$32M gtd in 2019)
• Cowboys
  • EDGE DeMarcus Lawrence (5-year, $105M deal w/$48M gtd in 2019)
  • WR Amari Cooper (traded for and signed to 5-year, $100M deal in 2020)
• Eagles
  • CB Darius Slay (traded for and signed to 3-year, $50M extension in 2020)

[derp]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

"premium position FA's" 

lulz

Spending big in FA is not the way to build a team. You fill gaps with 2nd and 3rd tier guys. You want to hold on to the top tier guys you draft while they're in their prime. That's what Adams is. You lock him up for his 2nd contract. If we start drafting too many top tier guys then we should start worrying about positional value. Until then, just lock up the top tier guys we have.

 

I think that’s the issue with him asking for this extension after three years. The Jets have three, frankly four years of control over him at figures well below the $17M being discussed in your back and forth. The benefit to the team of the extension is the additional years of control and there’s little to no amount of additional years of having him under contract in a four or five year extension scenario. It really doesn’t make financial sense, especially when you’re considering how much more he’s going to be making in the first few years than he would have.

The issue is that he’s upset he’s underpaid but he also wants to sign a huge deal as the top safety. Douglas can make a responsible decision to pay him more in the short term in exchange for additional control - but a reasonable deal that gets him a raise and makes sense for the team financially won’t hit the figures he’s looking for. And the huge deal is so far above and beyond what he’s making, plus they control him for for long enough  - so there’s really no way to make that work this offseason. Thus why extending next year is probably what they’re targeting at the numbers he’s looking for.

My guess is Adams is coming to the table with no leverage, being told he has no leverage and has to not sign a top safety in the league deal or wait a year, and then throwing a hissy fit because there’s nothing else he can do - even though extensions are this stage are rare.

[Vader]

6 hours ago, Losmeister said:

only after someone said " if we extrapolate his last 8 games"  cos its silly.

sorry for the caps...   \

peace

 

I put forward the last 8 games extrapolation — but not as a projection, like I am saying that is who he is. I am saying that’s a positive data set and I hope it is basis for his maturation. 

It’s simply a consecutive and consistent stretch of games that a young QB has put together that COULD show a real maturation into FQB. And IF that is the case — and that has to be the expectation for Darnold — then the last 8 games of 2019 do mean something.

No GM would ignore that progress in evaluating his roster. Because there is a lot riding on whether or not those last 8 games is the real Sam Darnold. 

[southtown24th]

is he gone yet?

[Barry McCockinner]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Once you have an established core, you can make a splurge or 2.  

The following contending/successful teams of late have done this:

• Chiefs
  • DE Frank Clark (5-year, $104M deal w/$62.3M gtd in 2019)
  • FS/CB Tyrann Mathieu (3-year, $42M deal w/$26.8M gtd in 2019)
• 49ers
  • EDGE Dee Ford (5-year, $85M deal w/$20.5M gtd 2019)
  • CB Richard Sherman (3-year, $27.5M deal in 2018)
• Packers
  • EDGE Za'Daris Smith (4-year, $66M deal w/$20M gtd in 2019)
  • EDGE Preston Smith (4-year, $52M deal w/$16M gtd in 2019)
• Ravens
  • CB Marcus Peters (traded for and then signed to 3-year, $42M extension in 2019)
  • FS Earl Thomas (4-year, $55M deal w/$32M gtd in 2019)
• Cowboys
  • EDGE DeMarcus Lawrence (5-year, $105M deal w/$48M gtd in 2019)
  • WR Amari Cooper (traded for and signed to 5-year, $100M deal in 2020)
• Eagles
  • CB Darius Slay (traded for and signed to 3-year, $50M extension in 2020)

Dude - more than half of this list are not free agent signings. Of course there are some exceptions. Getting the established core is the important part.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Dude - more than half of this list are not free agent signings. Of course there are some exceptions. Getting the established core is the important part.

I never stated they were all FA's.  I was talking about SPLURGES here. 

And the guys that were traded were about to see their contracts expire and teams got what they could for them.  That doesn't hurt my point.

[Vader]

Really looks great btw that while Jamal Adams is doing this contract tantrum, Pat Mahomes just announced his new charitable foundation ?

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Vader said:

Really looks great btw that while Jamal Adams is doing this contract tantrum, Pat Mahomes just announced his new charitable foundation ?

It also didn't look good that Adams was b*tching and moaning about his contract while NYC was on fire.  

He is tone deaf and has zero self-awareness or tact whatsoever.  Not great qualities out of a supposed "leader".

[Vader]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It also didn't look good that Adams was b*tching and moaning about his contract while NYC was on fire.  

I’m an Adams fan but I agree with u on the optics for sure 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I was talking about SPLURGES here.  A lot of the guys that were traded were about to see their contracts expire and teams got what they could for him.  That doesn't hurt my point.

You responded to a conversation where someone was arguing that we shouldn't pay Jamal Adams so we could sign free agents. So your plan is to not sign Jamal Adams so we can hopefully trade for and pay someone else? 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

You responded to a conversation where someone was arguing that we shouldn't pay Jamal Adams so we could sign free agents. So your plan is to not sign Jamal Adams so we can hopefully trade for and pay someone else? 

I was pointing out that smart/contending teams can, and do, spend in splurges from time to time once they have an established core.  Money is money, whether you sign or trade for a player from another org.  

My preference would be to avoid spending draft capital to improve the roster, but it can be necessary at times.  I would gladly give up a high pick to acquire an elite EDGE rusher in his prime, something this franchise hasn't had since 2005.

Trading away Adams would help us in this hypothetical since we'd be adding draft capital from Adams then trading some away for an EDGE.