Report: Ravens in trade discussions for Jamal Adams

[Beerfish]

47 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

He is the best player on a 53 man squad ..had only played 3 seasons ... Reach pro bowl twice and all pro once. ... All this in the first three seasons of his young career ... Guy is a stud not seen since Revis.

 

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He is an absolute stud at being a box safety and that position does  little to help you win in this league.

It is opportunity cost, do you commit long term to a player who is the best at his position (box safety, not safety period)  that does not move the needle to any extent?

On top of that there are indications the player is going to start to become a problem when he wants a new contract and wants outrageous money.

There really should be no discussion at all about this player, the Jets control him for a few more years and there is no reason to pay him now. 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Jethead said:

I like Jamal a lot. I think most of you underestimate his value with the premium position bs. Guys like him are exactly who we should be looking for.

But, we hold all the cards and if it were me I would tell Jamal he is a key guy in our long term plans who we really value and not give him another dime this year. (Pretty much how I think JD is playing it!)

Next year, different story. Let's wait and see what happens. Who knows what the future holds.

It's nice to have a competent GM.

 

How high would you be willing to go next year when it comes to Adams' salary?

[Dunnie]

He is an absolute stud at being a box safety and that position does  little to help you win in this league.

It is opportunity cost, do you commit long term to a player who is the best at his position (box safety, not safety period)  that does not move the needle to any extent?

On top of that there are indications the player is going to start to become a problem when he wants a new contract and wants outrageous money.

There really should be no discussion at all about this player, the Jets control him for a few more years and there is no reason to pay him now. 

I will agree that he is a beast Box Safety. ...however .. he is also above avg in cover.

 

I like his swagger and emotion .. and the dude backs it up consistently ... You simply do not trade game breakers like this.

 

If the price were right ...of course ... For me. ... A mid to high 1, a 2 + stud player in return.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

 

[Jethead]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

How high would you be willing to go next year when it comes to Adams' salary?

Depends on many factors. How well he plays. How well Sam plays. If we are becoming serious contenders Jamal's personality and drive become even more valuable. If Sam sh*ts the bed and we are also rans again, that's another story altogeather.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Jethead said:

Depends on many factors. How well he plays. How well Sam plays. If we are becoming serious contenders Jamal's personality and drive become even more valuable. If Sam sh*ts the bed and we are also rans again, that's another story altogeather.

Interesting take.  If Sam is the goods my motivation would be to continue to bolster the offense even more than we were before.  That would include using the money we'd be giving Jamal to grab one of the many key free agent WRs scheduled to hit the market after 2020.  

If Sam ends up a bust, that pushes the timetable back on when we'd need to pay a QB, freeing up more money to pay Adams.  But even in that case, we could use some more picks to move up for a QB if needed.  Trading Adams would be a means to that end as well.

Basically there's no scenario I can envision that changes how we should be handling Adams.  In any situation, paying him $15-18M per year is not advisable resource allocation.

[Prez33]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

/shrug

If you didn't like the player alot, why choose his nick for your nick?  why defend him at great length from critics here?

I think the maiden doth protest too much.  

Again, can't speak for anyone else, but I choose a nick of my own unrelated to the Jets, in part specifically to not be tied to a current player.  even my all time favs, Toon, Chrebet, Mangold now too, I wouldn't name myself after them, and I love those dudes,  I'm me, not them.

TLDR:  So we don't read into it, why DID you pick Prez as your handle?

Because I needed an identifier. Simple really. Not a whole lot of meaning behind it. I like Jamal Adams. But I don’t want to have his children.  Molehills are turning into mountains. 

[Gastineau Lives]

I'm old enough to remember when this thread was about the Ravens' interest in Jamal Adams.

[Prez33]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol what?  That's how rookie deals work.  How are the Jets "stupid" when only ONE team has extended a 2017 first rounder so far (Panthers - McCaffrey)?

If Adams has a complaint about it, take it up with the NFLPA who agreed to this rookie wage scale in each of the last 2 CBA's.  Teams have the upper hand on these deals, and they're not "stupid" for taking advantage of that.

Sure they do. I’m not saying the Jets have to do anything here. They are well within their rights. I haven’t been arguing this point at all. 
 

I said he’s vastly underpaid, and I understand that gets people all worked up. I don’t really care if you don’t like my opinion. I’m not trying to win anyone over here. I don’t think it’s smart business to jerk around with one of your best players. He’s either gonna get paid big, or he’s gonna get traded. I’m not gonna lose sleep either way. 

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

He is an absolute stud at being a box safety and that position does  little to help you win in this league.

It is opportunity cost, do you commit long term to a player who is the best at his position (box safety, not safety period)  that does not move the needle to any extent?

On top of that there are indications the player is going to start to become a problem when he wants a new contract and wants outrageous money.

There really should be no discussion at all about this player, the Jets control him for a few more years and there is no reason to pay him now. 

Actually not true your first statement 

 

Williams uses a lot of nickel and dime blitzes.  Having a safety like Adams who plays like a linebacker helps because our defense isn’t a liability facing the run when he picks are in nickel formation

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I'm old enough to remember when this thread was about the Ravens' interest in Jamal Adams.

Ys, but that is nonexistent, at least at a low cheap price Joe Douglas would agree to. And since Douglas worked for and remains on good terms with the Ravens, they probably aren't going to insult him with a garbage offer. 

[win4ever]

If I'm the Broncos I'd rather re-sign Justin Simmons (11 INTs) at Eddie Jackson prices (or less) than trade draft capital to sign Jamal Adams at Jamal Adams prices.  
Simmons is currently going to be playing on the franchise tag, but that could change over the course of the season.

Obviously we’re just speculating here, but my line of thinking is that they want to shore up the back end of their passing defense. With Chiefs and Raiders going heavy on speed, they’d want a SS that can do both, while having Simmons be the rangy FS.

Offense has Gordon on a decent deal, then cheap QB, rookie contracts for top 4 receivers plus TE. So they would have the money moving forward to invest in a SS, at the level Adams expects.

Miller was saying something to the effect of not trying to stop Mahomes, but keep in up with them. A DL of Chubb/Casey/Miller is a monster, if they can hold the back end, which is what Fangio specializes in. They funnel the game into the intermediate area, so a stud SS works well, alongside Simmons.

I think they are a good target if we’re looking for straight picks. Maybe Daesean Hamilton as a No. 4 type guy.

[win4ever]

Minkah was also a year less into his rookie contract, and wouldn't command the same type of immediate contract extension Jamal will.

Minkah was an absolute stud, and a ball hawk. I know he plays FS but man did he make an impact. He was who I thought Hooker would be coming out.

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, win4ever said:

 

Obviously we’re just speculating here, but my line of thinking is that they want to shore up the back end of their passing defense. With Chiefs and Raiders going heavy on speed, they’d want a SS that can do both, while having Simmons be the rangy FS.

Offense has Gordon on a decent deal, then cheap QB, rookie contracts for top 4 receivers plus TE. So they would have the money moving forward to invest in a SS, at the level Adams expects.

Miller was saying something to the effect of not trying to stop Mahomes, but keep in up with them. A DL of Chubb/Casey/Miller is a monster, if they can hold the back end, which is what Fangio specializes in. They funnel the game into the intermediate area, so a stud SS works well, alongside Simmons.

I think they are a good target if we’re looking for straight picks. Maybe Daesean Hamilton as a No. 4 type guy.

 

 

That would be a lot of money and draft capital to sink into the 2 Safety spots.  The idea of "keeping up with" Mahomes had a lot more to do with upgrading the offense around Drew Lock than upgrading the defense, no?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Prez33 said:

Sure they do. I’m not saying the Jets have to do anything here. They are well within their rights. I haven’t been arguing this point at all. 
 

I said he’s vastly underpaid, and I understand that gets people all worked up. I don’t really care if you don’t like my opinion. I’m not trying to win anyone over here. I don’t think it’s smart business to jerk around with one of your best players. He’s either gonna get paid big, or he’s gonna get traded. I’m not gonna lose sleep either way. 

It's also not good for business to just cave into a player's demands because he asks for a new contract 2 years ahead of time.  Gaining a reputation for being easily walked over is not a good precedent to set, especially not for a 1st-year GM.

The best franchises draw a hard line in negotiations with players, even their stars.  I'd rather JD be on the side of being "too frugal" than "too generous".  Macc was in the latter group and we see how that worked out.  

And lastly, f**k what Jamal wants.  He's proven to be as me-first as it gets.  If he's going to conduct himself like that then he can sit and wait.  He doesn't get to call the shots here.  Go whine to the Johnson's and post passive-aggressive tweets.  Who cares if he's upset.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Actually not true your first statement 

 

Williams uses a lot of nickel and dime blitzes.  Having a safety like Adams who plays like a linebacker helps because our defense isn’t a liability facing the run when he picks are in nickel formation

Hey it is nice stopping the run, the jets have been good at it for years and years and where has it got them?  When you are poaching the SS at the line a lot of the time you are giving up something else.  We had LBs covering slot and wr guys last year.

[win4ever]

 
That would be a lot of money and draft capital to sink into the 2 Safety spots.  The idea of "keeping up with" Mahomes had a lot more to do with upgrading the offense around Drew Lock than upgrading the defense, no?

Well they are kinda set on offense really, unless it’s specifically sinking resources into OL.

Sutton/Juedy/Hamler/Fant seems pretty set, so something would have to go wrong to add a weapon.

Adding someone like Adams would help slow down the offense, by going with a pass rush/safety approach, forcing things into the middle. You wouldn’t stop them but slow them down enough that their offense can match.

[Integrity28]

42 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Hey it is nice stopping the run, the jets have been good at it for years and years and where has it got them?  When you are poaching the SS at the line a lot of the time you are giving up something else.  We had LBs covering slot and wr guys last year.

DL and LB should be stopping the run. Needing your safety to do it regularly means you’re deficient elsewhere.

Except, that stat the other day about out DTs stopping the run tells me we are actually good there. So, SS in run defense is just redundant imo - edoecidkky when you D is burned most by slot, rb and TE in passing game.

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

edoecidkky when you D

This was my favorite member of Wutang

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This was my favorite member of Wutang

I type with my inuckles

[Prez33]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's also not good for business to just cave into a player's demands because he asks for a new contract 2 years ahead of time.  Gaining a reputation for being easily walked over is not a good precedent to set, especially not for a 1st-year GM.

The best franchises draw a hard line in negotiations with players, even their stars.  I'd rather JD be on the side of being "too frugal" than "too generous".  Macc was in the latter group and we see how that worked out.  

And lastly, f**k what Jamal wants.  He's proven to be as me-first as it gets.  If he's going to conduct himself like that then he can sit and wait.  He doesn't get to call the shots here.  Go whine to the Johnson's and post passive-aggressive tweets.  Who cares if he's upset.

Yeah, **** Jamal Adams. 
 

What a great philosophy in dealing with your best player. That’ll attract FA’s for sure. Everyone will want to come play for J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

Yeah, **** Jamal Adams. 
 

What a great philosophy in dealing with your best player. That’ll attract FA’s for sure. Everyone will want to come play for J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!

 

Yes because being nice to players and overpaying them attracted great talent here under Maccagnan.  Tannenbaum did the same thing and it ended in disaster.

The only way to attract quality FA's is by being smart with your resources and building your team into a winner.  Not by overpaying players.

This is a business.  Douglas will treat it as such. You and Jamal will just have to deal with it.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Prez33 said:

Yeah, **** Jamal Adams. 
 

What a great philosophy in dealing with your best player. That’ll attract FA’s for sure. Everyone will want to come play for J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!

To get paid a pile of money for at least 3 more seasons playing NFL football is not really all that much of a f___ you. It's still a pretty good deal, even under the franchise tag. We should all be so f___ed. 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 hours ago, Warfish said:

/shrug

If you didn't like the player alot, why choose his nick for your nick?  why defend him at great length from critics here?

I think the maiden doth protest too much.  

Again, can't speak for anyone else, but I choose a nick of my own unrelated to the Jets, in part specifically to not be tied to a current player.  even my all time favs, Toon, Chrebet, Mangold now too, I wouldn't name myself after them, and I love those dudes,  I'm me, not them.

TLDR:  So we don't read into it, why DID you pick Prez as your handle?

Maybe it's because of Truman

[playtowinthegame]

All these pages and Jamal isn't getting traded or getting a new contract. Jamal under Joe's thumb. 

[Jet Nut]

On 5/28/2020 at 2:41 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He sat out the Ravens game for BS reasons, then tweeted passive aggressively while the team was getting blown out.  It's not an outlandish hypothetical.

Such a leader, that Jamal is.  

So youre down to making stuff up part of the discussion now?

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, Beerfish said:

He is an absolute stud at being a box safety and that position does  little to help you win in this league.

75 tackles, 7 pass def, 6.5 sacks, 16 Qb pressures, 13 QB hits, 2 ff, 10 tackles for loss in 14 games.

He doesnt help you win in this league?

Nope

[Integrity28]

11 hours ago, Prez33 said:

Yeah, **** Jamal Adams. 
 

What a great philosophy in dealing with your best player. That’ll attract FA’s for sure. Everyone will want to come play for J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!

You’re not our best player. 

You’re not our most important player.

$$$ attracts FAs. The idea is to give it to them. In order to do that, we shouldn’t give it to you.

 

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

75 tackles, 7 pass def, 6.5 sacks, 16 Qb pressures, 13 QB hits, 2 ff, 10 tackles for loss in 14 games.

He doesnt help you win in this league.

Nope

Pat Tillman used to have great stats, because his LBs sucked and his defense was on the field constantly losing ball games. Context matters when puking stat lines into an argument.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

75 tackles, 7 pass def, 6.5 sacks, 16 Qb pressures, 13 QB hits, 2 ff, 10 tackles for loss in 14 games.

He doesnt help you win in this league.

Nope

Those would be marginal numbers for a linebacker. By comparison, let’s pick a random linebacker—say, Joe Schobert, whom the Browns allowed to walk. His stats from 2019:

133 tackles, 9 PD, 4 INT, 2 sacks, 2 FF, 7 TFL. 
 

He just signed with the Jaguars for ~$10 mil per, $21mm gtd. 

[choon328]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:56 PM, Prez33 said:

Now he’s “my guy” because of a Prez33 handle on a fan site?  My world doesn’t change one bit based on the Jamal Adams saga. I think the Jets are stupid for letting this guy linger on a vastly underpaid contract, but the Jets will go forward, and Jamal Adams will continue to kick ass wherever else he goes.  No skin off my back. 

Yep

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Pat Tillman used to have great stats, because his LBs sucked and his defense was on the field constantly losing ball games. Context matters when puking stat lines into an argument.

Yeah, Pat Tillman was never the player Jamal is.  

So now the argument is that his numbers aren't as impressive and hes doesnt actually contribute to the defense?  Its not because he hustles and can play and is a valuable player who any team would love to have.  

Its because the D is on the field.

 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Those would be marginal numbers for a linebacker. By comparison, let’s pick a random linebacker—say, Joe Schobert, whom the Browns allowed to walk. His stats from 2019:

133 tackles, 9 PD, 4 INT, 2 sacks, 2 FF, 7 TFL. 
 

He just signed with the Jaguars for ~$10 mil per, $21mm gtd. 

Other than he doesnt play LB you might be on to something.

His numbers suck big time for a QB too, so?

[Bugg]

Keep in mind once Moseley got hurt 5 minutes into the season, Greg Williams called for a lot more safety blitzes than he would have  done if the Jets had a quality pass rush from OLB or DE. Or had Q been the dominating Aaron Donald-type force up the middle he was sold as. 

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Those would be marginal numbers for a linebacker. By comparison, let’s pick a random linebacker—say, Joe Schobert, whom the Browns allowed to walk. His stats from 2019:

133 tackles, 9 PD, 4 INT, 2 sacks, 2 FF, 7 TFL. 
 

He just signed with the Jaguars for ~$10 mil per, $21mm gtd. 

Football stats are  bit hard to quantify; does that mean he's bad defender teams run plays at, is there a dominating defender on his team opposing offenses avoid, does the defense scheme design plays to funnel skill players at his area, or is he the kind of player who gets all over the field, or some combo. Late 1990s/early 2000s Raiders LB Greg Biekert led or was among the leaders  in the NFL in tackles every year, by a bunch. Somehow the Canton bust has not materialized. 

[Integrity28]

56 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, Pat Tillman was never the player Jamal is.  

So now the argument is that his numbers aren't as impressive and hes doesnt actually contribute to the defense?  Its not because he hustles and can play and is a valuable player who any team would love to have.  

Its because the D is on the field.

 

Tillman was an excellent player.

No, I'm not arguing anything really. I'm simply pointing out that stats without context are a form of dishonest debate.