Report: Ravens in trade discussions for Jamal Adams

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

To you, it might be. To me, the Giants, the Cowboys and the Titans it isn't.

Ask the Titans and Cowboys how they feel about Henry and Elliot. Ask them if having a top 5 RB helps their team.

*and please, don't give me they weren't the #2 pick in their draft, they were damn close. If its your turn, and you see a OROY type player sitting there, you take him.

The Titans and Cowboys had 2 of the best OL's in the NFL.  A replacement level RB could go for 1,200+ yards on those teams.  

And in the end, neither team has won a thing.   

While pondering these points, go ask the Rams how things went with giving Todd Gurley all that money.

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

The Titans and Cowboys had 2 of the best OL's in the NFL.  A replacement level RB could go for 1,200+ yards on those teams.  

And in the end, neither team has won a thing.   

While pondering these points, go ask the Rams how things went with giving Todd Gurley all that money.

Gurley? I see you and raise you Goff. Don't keep moving the goal posts.

Yeah they both had good OLs, but why say goofy sh*t like a replacement RB could've gained 1200 yds? You're smarter than that, and you know how good Barkley, Henry and Elliot are. Sometimes you go overboard in order to make a point. I'm sure I do the same, but come on.

Football is still football. Sure you get the rare freakish athletes at QB like Mahomes and Jackson who can carry an offense by themselves, but the best way to build a winning team is still with a good defense and a good running game.

When was the last time we were a playoff team? What did we have? A bad QB, a good running game and a really good defense. The QB was the early 1st round pick.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Gurley? I see you and raise you Goff. Don't keep moving the goal posts.

Yeah they both had good OLs, but why say goofy sh*t like a replacement RB could've gained 1200 yds? You're smarter than that, and you know how good Barkley, Henry and Elliot are. Sometimes you go overboard in order to make a point. I'm sure I do the same, but come on.

Football is still football. Sure you get the rare freakish athletes at QB like Mahomes and Jackson who can carry an offense by themselves, but the best way to build a winning team is still with a good defense and a good running game.

When was the last time we were

a playoff team? What did we have? A bad QB, a good running game and a really good defense. The QB was the early 1st round pick.

 

Our RB's were Thomas Jones, Shonn Greene, and an over-the-hill LaDainian Tomlinson.  

Your argument is invalid.  It's all about the Offensive Line.  Which is why you never take a RB # 2 overall.

[slats]

50 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

What if that team with that RB drafts a QB the next year who shows he's probably as likely to succeed as the other two QBs taken by the other two teams? Does that change the argument at all?

I think it does.

For me to take a RB at #2, I’d need to have everything else in place. Like, I lost my QB for the season the previous year, and that’s why I had the #2 pick in the first place. If Jones works out, they got lucky. It wasn’t good strategy. 

But that’s me. I’ve been a RBBC guy for what feels like decades now. There are just a ton of 5’10”, 220 lb dudes who run a 4.55 who’ll produce just fine behind a solid OL. 

[14 in Green]

13 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Maybe I got it crossed up but in no way am I defending Macc. He pulled a golden horseshoe out of his butt when Sam fell to him at #3 overall after he traded three #2's to get to #3 overall before he knew Sam was going to be there. What that should have gotten him was in a position to take Rosen after the Browns picked Sam #1 and the Gint's took Baker at #2.

Side note - Gettlemen - how much did that generational RB improve the Gints record?

I hated the Mo WIlkerson pick and contract.

 

3 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

About as much as the two generational QBs have helped the Browns and Jets?

 

Just now, slats said:

For me to take a RB at #2, I’d need to have everything else in place. Like, I lost my QB for the season the previous year, and that’s why I had the #2 pick in the first place. If Jones works out, they got lucky. It wasn’t good strategy. 

But that’s me. I’ve been a RBBC guy for what feels like decades now. There are just a ton of 5’10”, 220 lb dudes who run a 4.55 who’ll produce just fine behind a solid OL. 

I get what you're saying, and I agree about the OL. But this whole conversation with me and 80 started with my reply in the above posts. What I was saying there was at this point, there was no difference in the impact either of the 3 picks have gad on their teams to date. 

As usually happens though, the conversation took on a completely different "life of its own" and here we are.

[slats]

11 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 

 

I get what you're saying, and I agree about the OL. But this whole conversation with me and 80 started with my reply in the above posts. What I was saying there was at this point, there was no difference in the impact either of the 3 picks have gad on their teams to date. 

As usually happens though, the conversation took on a completely different "life of its own" and here we are.

Well then, let’s get back on topic! 

I think the jints passing on Darnold is the same level mistake the Jets made when they drafted Jamal Adams over Watson or Mahomes. You can’t be taking such a non-premium position that high when there’s a QB available right there and you need a QB. It’s gross mismanagement. 

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Our RB's were Thomas Jones, Shonn Greene, and an over-the-hill LaDainian Tomlinson.  

Your argument is invalid.  It's all about the Offensive Line.  Which is why you never take a RB # 2 overall.

This was a good talk 80, and I just want to say one more thing, then you can have the last word.

The most aggravated I've been watching a Super Bowl recently was the Patriots- Falcons game. Why?

The Falcons had them dead to rights but what happened? They were a passing team with no ability to run the ball They neglected it and it bit them in the a** for the world to see. The entire second half consisted of failed 3 and outs, and because they couldn't run out the clock, their defense became a bunch of dead men walking. The rest is history.

You want to argue taking a top 5 RB at #2 is stupid, fine. Right now to me it looks like the best pick of the top 3 in '18, especially since they got the QB the next year. You can cling to your positional value thing here and in the Adams threads if you want, but to me it's not always that cut and dried.

[14 in Green]

Just now, slats said:

Well then, let’s get back on topic! 

I think the jints passing on Darnold is the same level mistake the Jets made when they drafted Jamal Adams over Watson or Mahomes. You can’t be taking such a non-premium position that high when there’s a QB available right there and you need a QB. It’s gross mismanagement. 

As I told 80, but what if you take your QB the very next year, and he shows he's probably just as likely to succeed as the two QBs taken just before and after the top 5 RB you took?

Is it still gross mismanagement?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Also @14 in Green ownership very much could have played a role in Adams not getting traded at the time.  We know how much they like to meddle.  

Eh. I don’t think it was that elaborate. Dallas was the only team willing to pay and he was jerking Douglas around through the media and Douglas didn’t want to deal from a weak hand.

[14 in Green]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Eh. I don’t think it was that elaborate. Dallas was the only team willing to pay and he was jerking Douglas around through the media and Douglas didn’t want to deal from a weak hand.

Most likely this.

But 80 is always gonna 80. Sometimes you just gotta let him run around until he tires himself out. ?

[slats]

7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

As I told 80, but what if you take your QB the very next year, and he shows he's probably just as likely to succeed as the two QBs taken just before and after the top 5 RB you took?

Is it still gross mismanagement?

As I already said, that’s not a good strategy. If it works out, it’s luck. 

[BurnleyJet]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

As I already said, that’s not a good strategy. If it works out, it’s luck. 

Pretty much, 14’s Darnold derangement syndrome colours everything, he perceives.

[14 in Green]

Just now, slats said:

As I already said, that’s not a good strategy. If it works out, it’s luck. 

So you want your team taking a QB who they don't like a year early, instead of a RB they love, and then taking the QB they really, really like the next year? Even though they like him so much that they probably took him early (#6 instead of #17)?

BTW there's a lot of luck involved in hitting any of these picks, especially QBs, No?

[#27TheDominator]

23 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

This was a good talk 80, and I just want to say one more thing, then you can have the last word.

The most aggravated I've been watching a Super Bowl recently was the Patriots- Falcons game. Why?

The Falcons had them dead to rights but what happened? They were a passing team with no ability to run the ball They neglected it and it bit them in the a** for the world to see. The entire second half consisted of failed 3 and outs, and because they couldn't run out the clock, their defense became a bunch of dead men walking. The rest is history.

You want to argue taking a top 5 RB at #2 is stupid, fine. Right now to me it looks like the best pick of the top 3 in '18, especially since they got the QB the next year. You can cling to your positional value thing here and in the Adams threads if you want, but to me it's not always that cut and dried.

The Falcons were 5th in rushing in 2016.  

[14 in Green]

Just now, BurnleyJet said:

Pretty much, 14’s Darnold derangement syndrome colours everything, he perceives.

How can I get upset. You spelt it "colours."

While sipping afternoon tea, I presume?

[14 in Green]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

The Falcons were 5th in rushing in 2016.  

Please don't ruin a good story with real, actual facts. 

Thank you. 

[BurnleyJet]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

How can I get upset. You spelt it "colours."

While sipping afternoon tea, I presume?

I’m English, the “U” is silent, Unlike your Sam hatred ?

 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

So you want your team taking a QB who they don't like a year early, instead of a RB they love, and then taking the QB they really, really like the next year? Even though they like him so much that they probably took him early (#6 instead of #17)?

BTW there's a lot of luck involved in hitting any of these picks, especially QBs, No?

The Jets decided that they preferred the following year’s QBs, passed on Watson and Mahomes, and took Adams. To me, that was a major mistake. It cost them three second rounders just to be able to take their second favorite guy. They thought Darnold, Rosen, etc., would be better than Watson and Mahomes. And that was a common theme. Now we can only dream about Darnold being better than Mahomes. And I do. 

In the jints’ case, Darnold was generally considered to be the top QB in his class, and definitely far ahead of Jones and whoever else scheduled to come out the following year. IMHO, their mistake was far worse. 

If Jones works out, they got lucky. And good for them, then, I guess. 

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Falcons were 5th in rushing in 2016.  

Savage

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

If Jones works out, they got lucky. And good for them, then, I guess. 

Don't worry, he won't.  He should correct his fumbling issues, for the most part.  What he won't ever correct is his inaccuracy.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Saquon is one of the 3 best backs in the league and the Giants still suck. 

Mayfield and Darnold are near the bottom of the QB rankings.  But if they improve to even middle-of-the-pack QB's, their teams will end up winning a lot of games.

That's why positional importance matters.

Wait QB is more important than S?  TE?  LB?  LT?....

Its actually pretty funny reading your posts trying to tear down a good player for not being Mahomes.

[Jet Nut]

44 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets decided that they preferred the following year’s QBs, passed on Watson and Mahomes, and took Adams. To me, that was a major mistake. It cost them three second rounders just to be able to take their second favorite guy. They thought Darnold, Rosen, etc., would be better than Watson and Mahomes. And that was a common theme. Now we can only dream about Darnold being better than Mahomes. And I do. 

In the jints’ case, Darnold was generally considered to be the top QB in his class, and definitely far ahead of Jones and whoever else scheduled to come out the following year. IMHO, their mistake was far worse. 

If Jones works out, they got lucky. And good for them, then, I guess. 

Theres not even a hint that they were interested in Mahomes.  Thats MMQBing.  Mahomes went into that draft as a day two pick, not the best QB in the league type. I wish we did, like anyone would but give KC credit

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Theres not even a hint that they were interested in Mahomes.  That MMQBing.  Mahomes went into that draft as a day two pick, not the best QB inn the league type. 

Except there were several people on this board calling for him. When we are discussing their mistakes, why does it matter if the guy was on their radar?  He is the best player in the NFL, at a position of need.  Shouldn't he have been on their radar?  Doesn't that just amplify just how wrong they were?

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Theres not even a hint that they were interested in Mahomes.  Thats MMQBing.  Mahomes went into that draft as a day two pick, not the best QB inn the league type. I wish we did, like anyone would but give KC credit

Oh gee, Maccagnan showed no interest in Mahomes?!? No wonder he’s such a bust! 

On draft day, Mahomes was a pretty solid top half of the first round pick, iirc. I wanted to believe in the Hackenberg, but I also wanted Mahomes. Sadly, I knew it was gonna be whichever LSU guy it was that dropped.  

[choon328]

The QB is the most important position in any sport when it comes to winning and losing and that's not up for debate.  In the last 15 years the HB position has been devalued. The last 10 SB winning RBs who led their team in rushing are:

Brandon Jackson

Ahmad Bradshaw

Ray Rice

Marshawn Lynch

Shane Vereen

Ronnie Hillman

LeGarrette Blount

LeGarrette Blount

Sony Michel

Damien Williams

 

Meanwhile the QBs have been:

Aaron Rodgers

Eli Manning

Joe Flacco

Russell Wilson

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Nick Foles

Tom Brady

Patrick Mahomes 

 

Obviously QB is way more important than RB and I'm not sure why that's up for discussion. There's about 10-12 QBs that I would take over any RB in the NFL right now. If Darnold becomes a top 10-12 QB in the league he'll be worth more than any RB. Give the kid a chance. 

[14 in Green]

Just now, BurnleyJet said:

I’m English, the “U” is silent, Unlike your Sam hatred ?

 

Hatred? Wow, what a louse I am... 

Here I thought I was only expressing disappointment in his play. on a website where people talk about him and his team. So much for trying to live a good life, and trying to respect, not hate anyone (ok maybe my ex, but just a little) especially some 22 year old kid I've never met. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.

BTW I know you're English, (you mention it often, hence the tea reference) and thanks to having a fairly decent education, reading a book or two, and having traveled quite a bit, the "u" wasn't really a mystery.

Endearing in a way, but not a mystery.

 

[GreenReaper]

8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

What makes a safety great is probably what surrounds him. Does that mean someone else can step in at SS and excel ? Maybe maybe not. The Jets are absolutely stacked at LB and that frees up things for a player like Adams hes more of a Hybrid SS/LB than he is SS/CB . With Mosely and Williamson coming back and a ton of promising young players coming up Adams could go off and be in the Double digits sacks and allow the LB's and Greg Williams to do a lot of different things in both coverage and with blitzes. All the Great defenses and most is not all elite defenses are stacked at LB just like we are and when you add Adams to that mix you may very well have one of the best defense in the NFL with one of the better coaches running the show. If Adams wants a ridiculous amount of money then there is not much we can do but with him here this defense can be special because Adams is a fantastic tackler and rusher of the passer. Its going to be hard for offense to scheme vs this defense and Adams will be a big part of that. 

IMO Adams will have even less of what I would call pure S/SS responsibilities...then he did last year. 

Your getting Avery Williamson and C.J. Mosely back.  And because of those two being injured last year...lots of valuable experience and solid play by Hewitt-Burgess and Basham.  An interesting pick up in Onwuasor...A Ravens who has worked well with Mosely before (has 8.5 sacks last 2 years).   A proven solid player...a 7-8 sack guy...is Jenkins too.  Stacked indeed...are the Jets at the LB position.  

Add talented rookies with their positional versatility...like Ashtyn Davis and Bryce Hall.  For both the secondary and pass rushing situations.

Zuniga has the talent to be a 10+ edge player somewhere down the road.  And for this year...should be a solid capable contributor in those blitz schemes. 

Possibly...UDFAs like Bryce Huff and Lamar Jackson can make the team.  Not just for their ST play.  But also for their potential as situational niche players...especially in those blitz packages.   

Then last...and the most key guy...QW.  He has the potential to be a dominant player.  I thought...a special one too.  Hopefully he breaks out this year.  He has the talent to provide a 6-8 sack season...with numerous pressures...hits and TFLs...while being doubled teamed.   His play alone...can have a huge rippling effect  on all the rest of the pieces of this defense.  Allow others to play so much more effectively. Especially beneficial for the rookies and newcomers on the team.   QW's impact play...can make this a top 5 defense for sure.  

 With all these pieces for an out of the box defensive mind like GW has to work with...JA could have a tremendous season.  Much to the chagrin of some me thinks.  GW + this year's D + JA = evolving the S/SS/CB/LB positions into new hybrid heights.

IMO...it's short sighted...not to want to see what Jamal can do...when he should be given more freedom to terrorize QBs in this year's D.  10+ for JA is doable.  

With the added pieces on offense.  This team has way more balance.  And IMO...the QB edge...enough to compete and win the AFCE.  That's what I want this year for the NYJ.  The division and the playoffs...to build on going forward into next year.   JA should be here...to be utilized as a weapon is GW's schemes...to achieve these goals.  

My gut tells me...JD wants what I want too.  What happens next year with JA and contract negotiations is another matter.  We'll have to wait and see on that.  But for this year...give me JA...the AFCE and the playoffs!
 

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Don't worry, he won't.  He should correct his fumbling issues, for the most part.  What he won't ever correct is his inaccuracy.  

Inaccuracy? LOL

[Jet Nut]

30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Except there were several people on this board calling for him. When we are discussing their mistakes, why does it matter if the guy was on their radar?  He is the best player in the NFL, at a position of need.  Shouldn't he have been on their radar?  Doesn't that just amplify just how wrong they were?

Thats good, most weren't though.

A handful mentioned him along with Watson and whoever else was being talked about.  

It matter because we didnt pass up on a top rated QB like we did with Watson.  We passed on a QB who few had rated highly.  

I said I wish we drafted him, who wouldn't?  But I'm not going to blame them for Mahomes, I blame them for Watson, that's who I wanted

 

[Jet Nut]

29 minutes ago, slats said:

Oh gee, Maccagnan showed no interest in Mahomes?!? No wonder he’s such a bust! 

On draft day, Mahomes was a pretty solid top half of the first round pick, iirc. I wanted to believe in the Hackenberg, but I also wanted Mahomes. Sadly, I knew it was gonna be whichever LSU guy it was that dropped.  

And neither did 9 other team other than KC.

One used a pile of picks not to miss out on Trubiski 

 

[Losmeister]

25 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

10+ for JA is doable.  

$100 bet?

[slats]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

And neither did 9 other team other than KC.

One used a pile of picks not to miss out on Trubiski 

 

I’m confident that you have absolutely no idea how weak this argument is. The Jets took a SS at #6 overall in the same draft where the league’s MVP and Super Bowl MVP went four picks later, and that’s somehow okay? 

Whatever anyone else did, only one team did it right. It wasn’t the Jets. There were a number of people here who wanted Mahomes. It’s not like he was a completely out of the blue pick. 

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Thats good, most weren't though.

A handful mentioned him along with Watson and whoever else was being talked about.  

It matter because we didnt pass up on a top rated QB like we did with Watson.  We passed on a QB who few had rated highly.  

 

You could also say that on a website where half the board posts 2 or three mock drafts every year, just about every single player in the top half of the first round will have been touted by some.

If the player turns out to be a star, "hey look at me!!! I was screaming, pounding the table for him!!!" and "plenty of us loved him..."

When the player flops, why don't we hear "Oh yeah? There were quite a few people here who liked him..."

[BurnleyJet]

32 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Hatred? Wow, what a louse I am... 

Here I thought I was only expressing disappointment in his play. on a website where people talk about him and his team. So much for trying to live a good life, and trying to respect, not hate anyone (ok maybe my ex, but just a little) especially some 22 year old kid I've never met. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.

BTW I know you're English, (you mention it often, hence the tea reference) and thanks to having a fairly decent education, reading a book or two, and having traveled quite a bit, the "u" wasn't really a mystery.

Endearing in a way, but not a mystery.

 

It’s does appear to be most of your shtick.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned my nationality very much in my 11000 plus posts. Although we all can’t be as smart as your good self. 

I’m looking forward to the season, to watch Sam Darnold become the best QB in the AFCE.

 

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats good, most weren't though.

A handful mentioned him along with Watson and whoever else was being talked about.  

It matter because we didnt pass up on a top rated QB like we did with Watson.  We passed on a QB who few had rated highly.  

I said I wish we drafted him, who wouldn't?  But I'm not going to blame them for Mahomes, I blame them for Watson, that's who I wanted

 

A handful?   The board was literally screaming for a QB.  I blame them for both. Who cares what people wanted, or who Maccagnan was linked to?   It was their job to identify the best value for their pick.  Even with their best picks they failed miserably.  I don't know how we got on this and I don't know how any of it is still up for debate.