Mims why he was the Steal of the Draft!!

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I'm a little confused, wasn't that one of the biggest criticisms of Fitz when he was here, that he just "threw it up" to Marshall, who saved Fitz by going up and getting it in coverage, leading to much criticsm that Fitz sucked and Marshall was good?

Are we now saying that Darnold is Fitz-like, and needs his WR's to save him, that he can't put the ball where it needs to be himself?

Huh?   You do sound confused.   Every QB needs a safety valve they can go to even if he’s covered.   Not sure what the Fitz comparison has to do with anything.  

[Losmeister]

13 hours ago, Vader said:

You are a Jets realist

amen

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

We desperately needed #1 WR help, we got #1 WR help.  Not the WR I wanted (I wanted Jeudy at #11, Pittman Jr. in the 2nd, and O-line the rest of the way, and J.D. the way the draft fell lol'd at me hard, especially over Pittman!).  But a solid prospect.

me too, but early on, b4 the actual draft i realized that going WR in the 1st was not likely to happen so i was focusing more on higgins and mims...   and began to like mims the more i read and watched reels. perhaps that is only a type of bias based on thinking that we'd be lucky for higgins to drop? could be. however, the flat aout athleticism...   that was something ....and i think i watched their bowl game...

and the fcat that he's the type to make the catches that were very precisely NOT the type of catches RA can make and the weakness in his game and the lament of easily 95% of JetNation...  " RA isnt megatron!!! the bastard!!"

for me the catch rate on targets is going to be interesting to see develop...  cos if its very similar to RA over time, I'll be disappointed...  unless his TD % is wildly compensatory.

[Lizard King]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:37 AM, Warfish said:

Can the steal of the draft catch for 1,000 yards his rookie year, and consistently there after?

Can the steal of the draft help Sam Darnold, the best QB to come out the past three years I hear, throw for over 4,000 yards?

If so, that would be awesome.

I'd like to see these platitudes turn out true on the field for a change.  Maybe Mims is the guy to do it.

Well, you basically swapped out Rbby Anderson for a guy who is just as fast, that runs a similarly narrow route tree, but who is taller and more physically developed to play the position. 

Robby and Sam hooked up for 900 I believe?

So take from that what you want. 

[Warfish]

51 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Huh?   You do sound confused.   Every QB needs a safety valve they can go to even if he’s covered.   Not sure what the Fitz comparison has to do with anything.  

Well, the Fitz thing is because that specific criticism was levied ALOT at the time and since. 

It was commonly said at that time that a good QB doesn't need his WR to save him by "just throwing it up there", that good QB's throw their WR's open.

Ok, no worries.

[Warfish]

33 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Well, you basically swapped out Rbby Anderson for a guy who is just as fast, that runs a similarly narrow route tree, but who is taller and more physically developed to play the position. 

Robby and Sam hooked up for 900 I believe?

So take from that what you want. 

i didn't like Robby as a #1 WR, so I'm very happy we're trying to go a different, potentially better, route.

[Jetsfan80]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:37 AM, Warfish said:

Can the steal of the draft catch for 1,000 yards his rookie year, and consistently there after?

 

47 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Well, you basically swapped out Rbby Anderson for a guy who is just as fast, that runs a similarly narrow route tree, but who is taller and more physically developed to play the position. 

Robby and Sam hooked up for 900 I believe?

So take from that what you want. 

 

1,000 yards should not be the expectation for Mims as a rookie.  This is the list of WR's since the merger that have accomplished that feat:

• Anquan Boldin (1,377 - 2003)
• Randy Moss (1,313 - 1998)
• Odell Beckham (1,305 - 2014)
• Michael Thomas (1,137 - 2016)
• Terry Glenn (1,132 - 1996)
• Amari Cooper (1,070 - 2015)
• A.J. Green (1,057 - 2011)
• Mike Evans (1,051 - 2014)
• A.J. Brown (1,051 - 2019)
• Keenan Allen (1,046 - 2013)
• Marques Colston (1,038 - 2006)
• Chris Collinsworth (1,009 - 1981)
• Kelvin Benjamin (1,008 - 2014)
• John Jefferson (1,001 - 1978)

So just 14 times.  And its a very impressive list of receivers.

Granted, 8 of them happened in the last decade, so odds are at least one WR from this talented 2020 class will accomplish the feat.  But that shouldn't be the expectation for Mims as a rookie.  

[GreenFish]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Now that is an interesting theory.  +Rep, good read.

To be clear, as I said to stats on draft day after reading his take on Mims, I have no complaint about the pick. 

We desperately needed #1 WR help, we got #1 WR help.  Not the WR I wanted (I wanted Jeudy at #11, Pittman Jr. in the 2nd, and O-line the rest of the way, and J.D. the way the draft fell lol'd at me hard, especially over Pittman!).  But a solid prospect.

I'm just interested in ideas as to why a prospect some think was the best WR (and maybe THAT is overstated by those folks) went in the late 2nd and was so clearly mad when picked that he was picked so low.  Attitude or personality issues have ruined many a prospect who had all the skills, so yeah, I'm interested if that will be a concern with him.

I get the concern. We don’t want a situation like Jochai Polite. I just don’t think we have a Polite situation on our hands. Noise of Polite’s laziness started coming out after the draft. We really haven’t heard why Mims fell. We can all just speculate and come up with theories.

The being upset on the call is a normal reaction for some. Douglas seemed to welcome that emotion.

Time will tell. I like his fit with Darnold. Mims needs a guy who will throw the ball up to him and not be scared. That’s Darnold. Darnold is not the most accurate down field thrower. So he needs a guy who will adjust, go up and catch the ball. That’s Mims.

Remember that week 1 throw to Robby in the end zone? Not a perfect throw, but Mims goes up and catches that ball 9x out of 10. At least that’s my belief.

 

[sec101row23]

24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, the Fitz thing is because that specific criticism was levied ALOT at the time and since. 

It was commonly said at that time that a good QB doesn't need his WR to save him by "just throwing it up there", that good QB's throw their WR's open.

Ok, no worries.

What QB doesn’t need their receiver to save them from time to time?   

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

I get the concern. We don’t want a situation like Jochai Polite. I just don’t think we have a Polite situation on our hands.

Naaa, I don't really see that either.  His reaction to us selecting him where we did was (IMO) quite off-putting, but again, got to be some allowance for disappointment and emotion.  As long as he leaves all that behind when he reports, I'm sure he'll be fine.

24 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Noise of Polite’s laziness started coming out after the draft. We really haven’t heard why Mims fell. We can all just speculate and come up with theories.

The "teams only needed dedicated slot WR's" is an interesting theory.  

24 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

The being upset on the call is a normal reaction for some. Douglas seemed to welcome that emotion.

It's the old Laverneus Coles Chip-on-Shoulder concept.

24 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Time will tell. I like his fit with Darnold. Mims needs a guy who will throw the ball up to him and not be scared. That’s Darnold. Darnold is not the most accurate down field thrower. So he needs a guy who will adjust, go up and catch the ball. That’s Mims.

Remember that week 1 throw to Robby in the end zone? Not a perfect throw, but Mims goes up and catches that ball 9x out of 10. At least that’s my belief.

Sounds good.

[Warfish]

21 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

What QB doesn’t need their receiver to save them from time to time?   

Like I said, it was a common criticism back in the day.  You'd have to ask the folks that made it why they made it.  Never made much sense to me either tbqh.

[bla bla bla]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:35 AM, David Harris said:

So I’ve been working through this 2 hour pod breakdown of Mims by a Jets YouTube guy I don’t know with ex Jet Marcus Coleman. It’s detailed AF.  
 

My takeaways were that Mims is supremely talented but has some expected but significant things to learn with getting off press coverage with his shimmies and moves at LOS including hand fighting and not going the long way around the CB. He doesn’t have a ton of counter moves at the LOS.

Then at the top of his breaks he has some inefficiencies lunging into breaks with his plant step and not keeping his feet underneath him as well as rounding off his breaks. He also needs to take shorter steps at the breaks for better control and quicker movement.

he ran about 4 routes in college

he also pushes off A LOT, sometimes very clever and sometimes with brute strength that he’ll get some flags on

we have excellent WR coaches in Van Jefferson and Hines Ward to clean these things up and they sound simple on paper but I think in game action it’ll take a lot of reps to develop. WR’s often take a year or two to develop. 
 

Mims will probably see 100 balls this year but I think he’ll flash but we shouldn’t expect gangbuster from Jump Street.

for anyone interested 

 

Joe is awesome, I've had him on my show a few times. The guy definitely knows his stuff!

[#27TheDominator]

5 hours ago, GreenFish said:

I get the concern. We don’t want a situation like Jochai Polite. I just don’t think we have a Polite situation on our hands. Noise of Polite’s laziness started coming out after the draft. We really haven’t heard why Mims fell. We can all just speculate and come up with theories.

The being upset on the call is a normal reaction for some. Douglas seemed to welcome that emotion.

Time will tell. I like his fit with Darnold. Mims needs a guy who will throw the ball up to him and not be scared. That’s Darnold. Darnold is not the most accurate down field thrower. So he needs a guy who will adjust, go up and catch the ball. That’s Mims.

Remember that week 1 throw to Robby in the end zone? Not a perfect throw, but Mims goes up and catches that ball 9x out of 10. At least that’s my belief.

 

I see literally zero comparison between Mims and Polite.  Polite was a boom or bust pick that, both athletically and mentally, probably wasn't even on some team's boards.  He wasn't on mine.  Polite was an expected 1st that dropped like a stone during the pre draft process.  Mims is an excellent WR prospect who is physically an NFL player and instead of the expected late first/early 2nd went late 2nd.  Early on, plenty of us were hopeful we could get him at 48.  I don't consider it a "fall" so much as he went slightly lower than expected.  I think that is because teams are worried that he will be another Chris Conley or Robert Meachem.  Not another Jachai Polite or Ardarius Stewart.

[JetBlue]

5 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

That is the most important aspect of drafting Mims.  Sam desperately needed someone who even if covered in a one-on-one situation, he could throw it up to and have a reasonable chance of a completion.   He also needed someone to play the back shoulder game with, there was nobody on this roster for the last 2 years that had that skill set.   With defenders having to respect Mims speed that should open up some back shoulder opportunities, and given Mims physicality and ability to win contested catches, should make Sam a happy dude.    

I agree totally.  Having someone like Perriman with his speed, on the other side along with Crowder in the slot means he should have a lot of one on one match ups.   

[Lizard King]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

1,000 yards should not be the expectation for Mims as a rookie.  This is the list of WR's since the merger that have accomplished that feat:

• Anquan Boldin (1,377 - 2003)
• Randy Moss (1,313 - 1998)
• Odell Beckham (1,305 - 2014)
• Michael Thomas (1,137 - 2016)
• Terry Glenn (1,132 - 1996)
• Amari Cooper (1,070 - 2015)
• A.J. Green (1,057 - 2011)
• Mike Evans (1,051 - 2014)
• A.J. Brown (1,051 - 2019)
• Keenan Allen (1,046 - 2013)
• Marques Colston (1,038 - 2006)
• Chris Collinsworth (1,009 - 1981)
• Kelvin Benjamin (1,008 - 2014)
• John Jefferson (1,001 - 1978)

So just 14 times.  And its a very impressive list of receivers.

Granted, 8 of them happened in the last decade, so odds are at least one WR from this talented 2020 class will accomplish the feat.  But that shouldn't be the expectation for Mims as a rookie.  

Nice find

[Jetsfan80]

48 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Nice find

I had a head start since a few days ago someone proposed that his expectation for Mims was to get 1,100 yards in his rookie season.  The top 5 on the list above were the only ones in NFL history to accomplish that feat.  I then expanded it to 1,000.

WR's take time to develop.  The transition from collegiate secondaries to pro secondaries and the expansion of the route tree have a steep learning curve.  And with a delayed/limited offseason due to COVID, all rookies across the league will have a difficult time adjusting to the pro game right away.  For many of them, this will operate as a redshirt season.  

I think this 2020 WR group is still so flush with talent that I'd be surprised if there weren't at least one guy from this class that will end up with 1,000+ yards.  But there's no way to know at this time which one that will be, and I'm not going to put such immediate high expectations on Mims.  A 700+ yard season with 4+ TDs would be impressive.  But by 2021 I think he'll be turning into a star and true WR1.  

[Lizard King]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I had a head start since a few days ago someone proposed that his expectation for Mims was to get 1,100 yards in his rookie season.  The top 5 on the list above were the only ones in NFL history to accomplish that feat.  I then expanded it to 1,000.

WR's take time to develop.  The transition from collegiate secondaries to pro secondaries and the expansion of the route tree have a steep learning curve.  And with a delayed/limited offseason due to COVID, all rookies across the league will have a difficult time adjusting to the pro game right away.  For many of them, this will operate as a redshirt season.  

I think this 2020 WR group is still so flush with talent that I'd be surprised if there weren't at least one guy from this class that will end up with 1,000+ yards.  But there's no way to know at this time which one that will be, and I'm not going to put such immediate high expectations on Mims.  A 700+ yard season with 4+ TDs would be impressive.  But by 2021 I think he'll be turning into a star and true WR1.  

You make a good point but could apply the same line of thinking to defensive backs. I’m curious how many rookie receivers vs rookie defensive backs start on average each year. Then find some way to gamble it (probably fan duel which I’ve never done) 

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

You make a good point but could apply the same line of thinking to defensive backs. I’m curious how many rookie receivers vs rookie defensive backs start on average each year. Then find some way to gamble it (probably fan duel which I’ve never done) 

Well in Mims' case he won't be going up against too many rookie corners.  He'll likely be matched up with quite a few veteran CB1's or CB2's, like these:

• Bills:  Tre'Davious White/Josh Norman (2x)
• Patriots:  Stephon Gilmore/Jason McCourty (2x)
• Dolphins:  Byron Jones/Xavien Howard (2x)
• 49ers:  Richard Sherman/Ahkello Witherspoon
• Colts:  Xavier Rhodes/TJ Carrie
• Broncos:  AJ Bouye/Bryce Callahan
• Cardinals:  Patrick Peterson/Byron Murphy
• Chargers:  Chris Harris/Casey Hayward
• Chiefs:  Charvarius Ward/Rashad Fenton/Tyrann Mathieu
• Raiders:  Prince Amukamara/Trayvon Mullen/Isaiah Johnson
• Seahawks:  Tre Flowers/Shaq Griffen/Quinton Dunbar
• Rams:  Jalen Ramsey/Troy Hill/Darious Williams
• Browns:  Denzel Ward/Greedy Williams

[Lizard King]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well in Mims' case he won't be going up against too many rookie corners.  He'll likely be matched up with quite a few veteran CB1's or CB2's, like these:

• Bills:  Tre'Davious White/Josh Norman (2x)
• Patriots:  Stephon Gilmore/Jason McCourty (2x)
• Dolphins:  Byron Jones/Xavien Howard (2x)
• 49ers:  Richard Sherman/Ahkello Witherspoon
• Colts:  Xavier Rhodes/TJ Carrie
• Broncos:  AJ Bouye/Bryce Callahan
• Cardinals:  Patrick Peterson/Byron Murphy
• Chargers:  Chris Harris/Casey Hayward
• Chiefs:  Charvarius Ward/Rashad Fenton/Tyrann Mathieu
• Raiders:  Prince Amukamara/Trayvon Mullen/Isaiah Johnson
• Seahawks:  Tre Flowers/Shaq Griffen/Quinton Dunbar
• Rams:  Jalen Ramsey/Troy Hill/Darious Williams
• Browns:  Denzel Ward/Greedy Williams

You’re an encyclopedia 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Lizard King said:

You’re an encyclopedia 

A 2020 Jets schedule and ourlads.com depth charts were all I needed there.  I'm no encyclopedia.

[NYJ1]

Until he proves he can play, as of right it's merely a solid 2nd round draft choice.

[NYJ1]

I see a decent receiver, don't get me wrong, but I do NOT see any of that other crap. When I see his highlight reel do I see Randy Moss? Do I see Megatron? Do I see Steve Smith? Do I see Mike Evans? 

The answer to all of that is NO. I just see a decent receiver that it appears Joe Douglas got good value when selecting him. Everyone is trying to make this pick into some nonsense like the Jets stole the newest diva WR sweetheart in the 2nd round. I think that's somewhere beyond DUMB.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

On 5/26/2020 at 12:55 AM, Charlie Brown said:

Hi don’t know if this video was published out here but I always like this guys break downs and he explains why Mims is perhaps the Steal of the Draft!!

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

I see a decent receiver, don't get me wrong, but I do NOT see any of that other crap. When I see his highlight reel do I see Randy Moss? Do I see Megatron? Do I see Steve Smith? Do I see Mike Evans? 

The answer to all of that is NO. I just see a decent receiver that it appears Joe Douglas got good value when selecting him. Everyone is trying to make this pick into some nonsense like the Jets stole the newest diva WR sweetheart in the 2nd round. I think that's somewhere beyond DUMB.

So because you don't see HOF receiver yet you think he's overhyped?  OK buddy.  I don't think anyone was sending him to Canton yet. 

I do think he'll end up a solid WR1 and a top 5-7 WR from this draft class despite being the 13th WR off the board.

[Warfish]

14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well in Mims' case he won't be going up against too many rookie corners.  He'll likely be matched up with quite a few veteran CB1's or CB2's, like these:

• Bills:  Tre'Davious White/Josh Norman (2x)
• Patriots:  Stephon Gilmore/Jason McCourty (2x)
• Dolphins:  Byron Jones/Xavien Howard (2x)
• 49ers:  Richard Sherman/Ahkello Witherspoon
• Colts:  Xavier Rhodes/TJ Carrie
• Broncos:  AJ Bouye/Bryce Callahan
• Cardinals:  Patrick Peterson/Byron Murphy
• Chargers:  Chris Harris/Casey Hayward
• Chiefs:  Charvarius Ward/Rashad Fenton/Tyrann Mathieu
• Raiders:  Prince Amukamara/Trayvon Mullen/Isaiah Johnson
• Seahawks:  Tre Flowers/Shaq Griffen/Quinton Dunbar
• Rams:  Jalen Ramsey/Troy Hill/Darious Williams
• Browns:  Denzel Ward/Greedy Williams

So if he gets 400 yards and 2 TD's, we'll all declare him a legit #1 and future All-Pro while also using him to excuse why Darnold just couldn't crack 3,500 yards passing.

Business as usual.

So 80, what is a reasonable expectation for our rookie WR vs. all those awesome DB's for his rookie year?  Now that JN has declared that expecting Darnold to hit 4,000 or Mims to 1,000 are both asking too much....

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So if he gets 400 yards and 2 TD's, we'll all declare him a legit #1 and future All-Pro while also using him to excuse why Darnold just couldn't crack 3,500 yards passing.

Business as usual.

So 80, what is a reasonable expectation for our rookie WR vs. all those awesome DB's for his rookie year?  Now that JN has declared that expecting Darnold to hit 4,000 or Mims to 1,000 are both asking too much....

 

I already said earlier in the thread I think 700+ yards and 4+ TDs would be a solid rookie campaign.  

[Philc1]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:49 AM, Warfish said:

So if he gets 400 yards and 2 TD's, we'll all declare him a legit #1 and future All-Pro while also using him to excuse why Darnold just couldn't crack 3,500 yards passing.

Business as usual.

So 80, what is a reasonable expectation for our rookie WR vs. all those awesome DB's for his rookie year?  Now that JN has declared that expecting Darnold to hit 4,000 or Mims to 1,000 are both asking too much....

Can Mims play a down of football before you declare him Kevin White?

[RobR]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:38 AM, NYJ1 said:

I see a decent receiver, don't get me wrong, but I do NOT see any of that other crap. When I see his highlight reel do I see Randy Moss? Do I see Megatron? Do I see Steve Smith? Do I see Mike Evans? 

The answer to all of that is NO. I just see a decent receiver that it appears Joe Douglas got good value when selecting him. Everyone is trying to make this pick into some nonsense like the Jets stole the newest diva WR sweetheart in the 2nd round. I think that's somewhere beyond DUMB.

Maybe you should watch some of his game tape instead of a highlight reel because his game tape is impressive. Then you could watch him dominate the Senior Bowl and get back to us.

I also think you should have mentioned Jerry Rice as a comparison.

[Gastineau Lives]

 

Holy jesus

 

[Big_Slick]

8 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

 

Holy jesus

 

Twitter gives that 4 second video a warning? WTH!

The following media includes potentially sensitive content. Change settings

[Gastineau Lives]

13 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Twitter gives that 4 second video a warning? WTH!

The following media includes potentially sensitive content. Change settings

Doesn't want to offend or terrify  NFL cornerbacks

[BurnleyJet]

5 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Doesn't want to offend or terrify  NFL cornerbacks

Or the Jets fan base, with video of a athletic receiver who plays for the Jets ?

[Philc1]

Still don’t understand how he fell to 59. If it wasn’t for a hand injury in 2018 he has 3x 1,000 yard seasons in college that’s disgusting 

[Philc1]

I don’t play on fan duel and normally don’t care what they say but they have Mims scoring the same # of TDs as Jerry Jeudy and Justin Jefferson (5.5)

[Vudu]

Until he outplays his rookie deal, and jets fans turn on him and call him a **** and a diva