Championship Teams Retain Special Players

[EM31]

Just now, nyjunc said:

It's easy to do when you have Brady who also takes a below market deal himself.  This wouldn't work with any other QB.

If Brady had been paid according to his true value for all of these years then NE would have needed to be even more hawkish when it came to the contracts of other players.

Even so and even with Tom Brady I do not think it was "easy" to let Seymour go or Milloy or Law or any of the others for that matter.

The difference between them and us is that that team and it's fan base bought into the greater good that results from managing your cap dollars prudently.  Something this fan base does not seem to buy into. 

[Scoop24]

4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

If Brady had been paid according to his true value for all of these years then NE would have needed to be even more hawkish when it came to the contracts of other players.

Even so and even with Tom Brady I do not think it was "easy" to let Seymour go or Milloy or Law or any of the others for that matter.

The difference between them and us is that that team and it's fan base bought into the greater good that results from managing your cap dollars prudently.  Something this fan base does not seem to buy into. 

All 3 of these players where all the back end of there career When they moved on. Seymour was the only that was still good but was on the decline. . Ty law was fat and slow and milloy was never the same 

[flgreen]

9 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Can we please, for the love of god, talk about something else?

Literally anything?

How many dimples do you guys think are on the average football? Let’s talk about that.

The ball features 414 larger dimples (in four different sizes) and 656 smaller (about pinhead-sized) dimples

[The Crusher]

21 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Awesome job losing 5 more games than a year earlier against a much weaker schedule while still missing the playoffs with a QB who would win a division title in Kansas City just 2 years later.

Yes, for the sake of this nyjunc discussion 11-5 is a Poor  showing. Got it. 

[Untouchable]

5 minutes ago, flgreen said:

The ball features 414 larger dimples (in four different sizes) and 656 smaller (about pinhead-sized) dimples

Can we really be sure?

Let’s all do our own research and report back.

Something tells me Jamal Adams will still be here when we’ve concluded.

 

[EM31]

16 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Can we please, for the love of god, talk about something else?

Literally anything?

How many dimples do you guys think are on the average football? Let’s talk about that.

If you think a particular topic is getting too much air time what is the logic in bumping back up to the top?

[flgreen]

13 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Can we really be sure?

Let’s all do our own research and report back.

Something tells me Jamal Adams will still be here when we’ve concluded.

 

I haven't been able to uncover  any info on what the actual sizes of the 414 larger dimples are.  You might want to get on that.  

Heck it might be relevant to deflategate 

[nyjunc]

32 minutes ago, EM31 said:

If Brady had been paid according to his true value for all of these years then NE would have needed to be even more hawkish when it came to the contracts of other players.

Even so and even with Tom Brady I do not think it was "easy" to let Seymour go or Milloy or Law or any of the others for that matter.

The difference between them and us is that that team and it's fan base bought into the greater good that results from managing your cap dollars prudently.  Something this fan base does not seem to buy into. 

He gave them flexibility both on the field and with the cap.

28 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yes, for the sake of this nyjunc discussion 11-5 is a Poor  showing. Got it. 

How did they do in the playoffs?  Do we forget how easy the schedules were for the AFC East that season? Miami went from 1 win in 2007 to 11 in 2008 yet NE lost 5 more.  5 games is a HUGE difference. If we win 5 more next year we'll be 12-4.

Belichick has coached a long time without Brady as his starter, he has 1 wild card playoff appearance.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He gave them flexibility both on the field and with the cap.

How did they do in the playoffs?  Do we forget how easy the schedules were for the AFC East that season? Miami went from 1 win in 2007 to 11 in 2008 yet NE lost 5 more.  5 games is a HUGE difference. If we win 5 more next year we'll be 12-4.

Belichick has coached a long time without Brady as his starter, he has 1 wild card playoff appearance.

This year should be interesting.

[section314]

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

What is our record in 2018 and 2019 if we hadn't had Adams, and just had an average Strong Safety?

You, as a Nats fan, know the answer to this question. You basically got rid of the Nats version of Adams, guys that are me first players, the kind of players that these saber metrics nuts will tell you impact the games so much more than your own eyes will tell you. Harper left, and after about 25 games, you guys never missed a beat. The same would be true for the Jets. You will miss Rendon 100x more than Harper, and it's not even close.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

You, as a Nats fan, know the answer to this question. You basically got rid of the Nats version of Adams, guys that are me first players, the kind of players that these saber metrics nuts will tell you impact the games so much more than your own eyes will tell you. Harper left, and after about 25 games, you guys never missed a beat. The same would be true for the Jets. You will miss Rendon 100x more than Harper, and it's not even close.

I truly don't think the Nats are World Champions in 2019 with Harper. 

Great player, great hitter, produces......but that special locker room/dugout lovefest of dancing, laughing baby-shark'ing players who truly liked each other and stood up for each other and believed.....not with Harper.  Parra, so massively less as a player, was so much more to the team in heart.   

Well said.  

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

This year should be interesting.

He has a bunch of years to prove how he's become a better HC since the pre Brady days. We'll see what happens.

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, EM31 said:

Look no further than the Patriots for an example of how championship teams are built and maintained.  The list of players who got too expansive to keep is extremely long.  Many of these were at the top of the league in terms of their position when the Patriots decided to cut ties because their salary demands would have wrecked the Patriots long term cap position.

• Ty Law
• Mike Vrabel
• Deion Branch
• Brandin Cooks
• Logan Mankins
• Wes Welker
• Malcom Butler
• Jamie Collins
• Chandler Jones
• Richard Seymour
• jimmy Garopolo
• Adam Vinitari
• Randy Moss
• Drew Bledsoe
• Lawyer Milloy

Now let's talk about Revis.  New England got him for cheap and he got himself a ring.  They would never have been serious bidders for Revis unless he came down below his price to other teams.

So to the OP.... It is a mark of truly successful teams that they make the tough calls early and manage their cap position with a long term view in mind.  THEY DO NOT SIMPLY CAVE IN TO THE DEMANDS of star players who want to break the bank.  Go break someone else's bank, we have a winner to build here.

Were any of those players on the list really young and just coming into their prime, or at the level that Jamal is right now? I don't see one. They were all on the downside of their careers or were not as good as Jamal. Bellicheck keeps Jamal at this point in his career. A few years down the road is a different story.

[EM31]

20 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Were any of those players on the list really young and just coming into their prime, or at the level that Jamal is right now? I don't see one. They were all on the downside of their careers or were not as good as Jamal. Bellicheck keeps Jamal at this point in his career. A few years down the road is a different story.

Did any player in New England try to hold up the team to become the highest paid player in the league at his position with two more years left on his current deal?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

It is too early and it the ask is too much.  Time for Adams to become someone else's problem now (preferably) or just shut up and play out his current deal on the contract he and his agent signed if we cannot move him.  If he continues to audition for his next contract by playing well then he will get rewarded for that good play at the appropriate time.  Rewarded either by the Jets or by somebody else.  In the mean time the Jets will be rewarded with good play at a bargain price.

Adams' payday is two years from now.

[The Crusher]

31 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He has a bunch of years to prove how he's become a better HC since the pre Brady days. We'll see what happens.

We also see if Tom can win without cheating. I'm looking forward to that. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

We also see if Tom can win without cheating. I'm looking forward to that. 

So you are saying Belichick didn't start cheating until week 3 of 2001? How come "cheating" didn't work without Brady?

Brady is 42/43, I think the m these next few years will tell us more about BB than Brady although we already have a 7 seasons of evidence of BB without Brady.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

So you are saying Belichick didn't start cheating until week 3 of 2001? How come "cheating" didn't work without Brady?

Brady is 42/43, I think the m these next few years will tell us more about BB than Brady although we already have a 7 seasons of evidence of BB without Brady.

I think he got much better at it and really started at the first spygate. Once he saw what it can do he and the entire Pats franchise ran with it. Brady embraced it because he always felt he was slighted getting drafted when he did. His Dad literally said it was the worst day of their lives when Tom got drafted so late. Hes  an entitled douche and a great system QB. Especially a system that cheats, dude the best QB ever when he knows what the defenses are running. Its not even close.

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I think he got much better at it and really started at the first spygate. Once he saw what it can do he and the entire Pats franchise ran with it. Brady embraced it because he always felt he was slighted getting drafted when he did. His Dad literally said it was the worst day of their lives when Tom got drafted so late. Hes  an entitled douche and a great system QB. Especially a system that cheats, dude the best QB ever when he knows what the defenses are running. Its not even close.

Why doesn't the system of cheating work with other QBs and other HCs?

[Snell41]

Jamal Adams is a very good player. He’s not special. Ed Reed was special. Troy Polamalu was special. Jamal Adams is not special.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Why doesn't the system of cheating work with other QBs and other HCs?

More the level of than the system of it. Everybody pushes the boundries a bit, the Patriots live in it. 

[Jetsfan80]

The Steelers won a SB with Santonio Holmes, SB MVP.  

They traded him to us for a 5th rounder.

Where's our championship?

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Last I heard Sam isn’t going anywhere so this OP is senseless.

CJ Mosley isn't on the trade block either.

[Wonderboy]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

CJ Mosley isn't on the trade block either.

Mosley in one half pretty much had more impact than Adams in 3 years. 

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

We also see if Tom can win without cheating. I'm looking forward to that. 

TomShane cheats? Does he have a ghost writer? ?

[pdxgreen]

4 hours ago, EM31 said:

If Brady had been paid according to his true value for all of these years then NE would have needed to be even more hawkish when it came to the contracts of other players.

Even so and even with Tom Brady I do not think it was "easy" to let Seymour go or Milloy or Law or any of the others for that matter.

The difference between them and us is that that team and it's fan base bought into the greater good that results from managing your cap dollars prudently.  Something this fan base does not seem to buy into. 

The difference was that they were extremely cheap bastards who only pay a certain amount for certain positions.  And probably even less for their general staff.  The company line from Kraft was "you take less for rings."  He isn't Arthur Blank.  And everybody bought into that for the better part of two decades.  They were so effective with that policy that they really didn't need the Brady money thet badly.  Till the last few years when they got desperate for playmakers.  They had the best coach in the game and a QB that everybody wanted to play with.  But everybody took less to facilitate that machine.  That wasn't difficult... that was standard operating procedure.  Now the wheels are starting to come and you hear all these groans from press leans... "oh, the Pats were never paid me that much."  Yeah. No #$@!  Dingleberry.  You let them. 

Giving up players for them was no harder then telling an employee they need their key card and their @#@ is in a box outside..  Build a winning team here for a few seasons and I bet the Jets could blow the exact same time of smoke with players.

[Vudu]

Just pay him and stfu Jets. Tired of being a fan of a joke franchise that always make the wrong choices.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, DLJ said:

Just pay him and stfu Jets. Tired of being a fan of a joke franchise that always make the wrong choices.

So devoting $15-18M per season to a player who is not a QB, LT, CB, EDGE or WR would be a franchise making the right decision.

Noted. 

[David Harris]

I told myself wasn’t I wasn’t going to click on any more Jamal Adams posts – I think I’m masochistic

[EM31]

10 minutes ago, DLJ said:

Just pay him and stfu Jets. Tired of being a fan of a joke franchise that always make the wrong choices.

I have an even better idea than that!  Trade him somewhere else that wants to pay him "his money" and then you can go root for that team being that your are so tired of rooting for this "joke franchise".

Personally I am tired of overvaluing and then overpaying our own talent or free agents just because those guys are popular in the media (the list is very long and well known).  We have tried that road and it leads nowhere.  It never leads anywhere except to where we are the laughing stock of the league again....

"look at what the Jets did this time.  Man don't those idiots ever learn?"

Stick with the current deal.  Two more years for cheap money and then send him on his way or.... trade him now for the value your team would expect to extract during those two years.  If he keeps on whining then fine him,....

Or give him one of these and tell him to STFU and play.  After all he is auditioning for his next deal and potential buyers will not pay a whiney slacker.

 

[JohnnyLV]

5 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Can we please, for the love of god, talk about something else?

Literally anything?

How many dimples do you guys think are on the average football? Let’s talk about that.

The ball features 414 larger dimples (in four different sizes) and 656 smaller (about pinhead-sized) dimples.Oct 12, 2004

[Ghost420]

Someone tell me what defensive players the Chiefs are paying a billion dollars to? Mathieu is getting average 14mil a year. I wouldn't pay Adams more than 15 per yr. Yet the Chiefs aren't even paying Chris Jones. 

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, Ghost420 said:

Someone tell me what defensive players the Chiefs are paying a billion dollars to? Mathieu is getting average 14mil a year. I wouldn't pay Adams more than 15 per yr. Yet the Chiefs aren't even paying Chris Jones. 

Hell, even the 49ers (built on defense) aren't spending all that heavily on their D.  Dee Ford is their big moneymaker.  Richard Sherman ($14M) and Solomon Thomas ($9M) are next on the list.  They have a little under $16M in cap space at the moment.  

Granted, they're going to end up giving Nick Bosa a market-setting deal a few years from now.  At which point they'd probably let Dee Ford go.   

[Losmeister]

didnt wanna start a new thread...   but wanted to commend Burgess...     everything D Lee was not...

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:39 PM, JetsLife said:

Why is it not long after we traded Keyshawn and Revis they were soon part of championship teams? (Makes no difference Revis was in NE - another championship team, cheaters yes, scooped him up). Because championship teams recognize special players who teams must account for.

Adams is a difference maker. He influences the offense when he’s at the LOS. 

Make him the highest-paid safety in NFL history and don’t look back. It’s a bad precedent to tear up his deal after year 3; but every player and every deal is different. Adams is the AAPL of safeties - you don’t let go of such an asset, you pay the premium and watch your investment grow. And then for a little while it becomes a bargain.

Also: sure safety isn’t the most valuable position on D, but it has become a premium position in the flag-football modern NFL. ‘19 Honey Badger with his big contract in KC and they win it all; Earl Thomas in Baltimore they get the No. 1 seed. Thomas & Chancellor LOB Seattle. Denver’s ‘15 safeties. Safety position has always been strong at the Cheating Pats. And so on. 

 

 

 

um revis didnt get them to the SB. idk but WR and CD are both higher on the whole postional value chart. 

[Barry McCockinner]

On 5/27/2020 at 10:53 AM, EM31 said:

Did any player in New England try to hold up the team to become the highest paid player in the league at his position with two more years left on his current deal?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

It is too early and it the ask is too much.  Time for Adams to become someone else's problem now (preferably) or just shut up and play out his current deal on the contract he and his agent signed if we cannot move him.  If he continues to audition for his next contract by playing well then he will get rewarded for that good play at the appropriate time.  Rewarded either by the Jets or by somebody else.  In the mean time the Jets will be rewarded with good play at a bargain price.

Adams' payday is two years from now.

Gronk was drafted in 2010 and signed a 4 year contract on July 25, 2010. On June 8, 2012, Gronkowski signed a six-year, $54 million contract extension, the largest ever for an NFL tight end.