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fodder for the anti gase crowd


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Gase has a losing record as a head coach through 4 years and 2 organizations with only 1 winning season under his belt.  I'm not sure what the official metrics are for judging a HC on his merits and not personnel, injuries, his GM, or his owner, but at some point, a HC has to sink or swim on his own and be judged accordingly.  I think this is that year for Gase. There are no excuses.  The expectation is that the team takes a big leap offensively and is competitive in every game. Tough schedule or not, this team needs to be fighting for a playoff spot in a division that's wide open. 

I think a 6-7 win season gets Gase fired.  

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2 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Gase has a losing record as a head coach through 4 years and 2 organizations with only 1 winning season under his belt.  I'm not sure what the official metrics are for judging a HC on his merits and not personnel, injuries, his GM, or his owner, but at some point, a HC has to sink or swim on his own and be judged accordingly.  I think this is that year for Gase. There are no excuses.  The expectation is that the team takes a big leap offensively and is competitive in every game. Tough schedule or not, this team needs to be fighting for a playoff spot in a division that's wide open. 

I think a 6-7 win season gets Gase fired.  

Finishing 6-2 after 1-7 is exactly what we needed to see.  Gase is past the point of "prove it".  He did that last year.

Most experts have the Jets at 6-10 or 7-9 with the tough schedule.  So a 6 or 7 win season is par.  

Gase is signed for 4 years and it's 4 years he shall have.  Personally, I'd sign him to an extension before Kraft comes trying to swipe him in 2022.

SAR I

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23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sure.  But so what?

I could win the lottery, twice, after all, others have..

I could meet David Gilmour and be invited to play on the next Floyd album.  After all, others have.

I could run into Milana Vayntrub and we could fall madly in love.  After all, others have.

I could get a surprise tryout with the Nats and shock the world by earning a roster spot.  After all, others have.

Many, many things are theoretically possible, with precedent. 

Many things have been done by others in entirely different circumstances involving entirely different people.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN A GOD DAMN THING TO ADAM GASE.

But sure, Manning, thus Darnold.  Bellichek, thus Gase. 

Got it.  I'm out.  

it'll depend on if darnold is the man or not...

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23 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Gase has a losing record as a head coach through 4 years and 2 organizations with only 1 winning season under his belt.  I'm not sure what the official metrics are for judging a HC on his merits and not personnel, injuries, his GM, or his owner, but at some point, a HC has to sink or swim on his own and be judged accordingly.  I think this is that year for Gase. There are no excuses.  The expectation is that the team takes a big leap offensively and is competitive in every game. Tough schedule or not, this team needs to be fighting for a playoff spot in a division that's wide open. 

I think a 6-7 win season gets Gase fired.  

carroll and bb are probably the outliers that started off meh, then were winners...   (brady/wilson)

seems to hinge on Sam...      and i dont think sam either sinks or swims depending on the coach...

i mean, did weeb make namath Broadway Joe?

but if we win 6-7 and they can him, thats ok with me...

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15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Finishing 6-2 after 1-7 is exactly what we needed to see.  Gase is past the point of "prove it".  He did that last year.

Most experts have the Jets at 6-10 or 7-9 with the tough schedule.  So a 6 or 7 win season is par.  

Gase is signed for 4 years and it's 4 years he shall have.  Personally, I'd sign him to an extension before Kraft comes trying to swipe him in 2022.

SAR I

All semantics. Gase would be a 5 year HC with a losing record if the Jets win 6 or 7 games in 2020.  That's a big enough sample size to determine his worth and as far as I'm concerned, it would be time to move on.  This is a win now league, and 5 years is an appropriate amount of time to determine that Gase is not a winner. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for a 10-6 record and a division title.  I hope this is the year that Gase puts it all together, but his track records suggests that I shouldn't hold my breath.  Hope he proves me wrong. 

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Just now, Losmeister said:

carroll and bb are probably the outliers that started off meh, then were winners...   (brady/wilson)

seems to hinge on Sam...      and i dont think sam either sinks or swims depending on the coach...

i mean, did weeb make namath Broadway Joe?

but if we win 6-7 and they can him, thats ok with me...

Weeb did win titles in both leagues.

 

Pete has proven he can at least compete without a great QB, BB has a lot to prove the rest of his career without Brady.

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1 minute ago, ChuckkieB said:

All semantics. Gase would be a 5 year HC with a losing record if the Jets win 6 or 7 games in 2020.  That's a big enough sample size to determine his worth and as far as I'm concerned, it would be time to move on.  This is a win now league, and 5 years is an appropriate amount of time to determine that Gase is not a winner. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for a 10-6 record and a division title.  I hope this is the year that Gase puts it all together, but his track records suggests that I shouldn't hold my breath.  Hope he proves me wrong. 

What he did in Miami is irrelevant, he's year 2 here and that's all that matters.

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5 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for a 10-6 record and a division title.  I hope this is the year that Gase puts it all together

10-6 wont be cos Gase..   the new OL, Sam, the new WRs...    the D against better competition

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10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Weeb did win titles in both leagues.

Pete has proven he can at least compete without a great QB, BB has a lot to prove the rest of his career without Brady.

what the general consensus on Russ? very good, not great? not great, yet? could be great? will never be great?

I think Russ is very good and could be great...if he plays really really well and wins another SB or 2...

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22 hours ago, Warfish said:

As above, this is another form of the fallacy of incomplete evidence.

In point of fact, the odds show that most coaches that start out poorly stay poor performers. 

Only a small minority "turn it around" like Shanahan.

very much this....    

to me it hinges on Sam....      if he's the real deal...    

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4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Belichick had 2 careers, pre Brady and with Brady.

Carroll had to go back to college to get another chance.

Holmgren wasn't fired

 

Payton was 10-6 and in the NFC Championship Game his first season.

 

I think Gase has done a good job as a HC but a poor job as an OC.  This year is big assuming we are relatively healthy.  If the O struggles again and the team struggles he could be gone. If the O struggles and the team is competitive they have to bring in a real OC.

Bolder is an interesting point..  I have been a big detractor of Gase as I believe the offense is his and all of his offenses throughout his HC career have been horrid.  But...I must say the game management throughout much of the second half of the season was quite good.  

Our defense was playing well and we were mostly up against impotent offenses on the other side.  I thought those games were managed intelligently as he allowed the defenses to win the games.  I felt he called relatively conservative offenses, understanding the lack of weapons and protection - as he knew the defense was fully in control.

In other words he played to win the game - understanding that that would likely produce lower offensive numbers.

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13 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

what the general consensus on Russ? very good, not great? not great, yet? could be great? will never be great?

I think Russ is very good and could be great...if he plays really really well and wins another SB or 2...

I think Wilson is great, I think he's a top QB.  Outside of Brady/Rodgers I think he does more with less than any QB.

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59 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Finishing 6-2 after 1-7 is exactly what we needed to see.  Gase is past the point of "prove it".  He did that last year.

Most experts have the Jets at 6-10 or 7-9 with the tough schedule.  So a 6 or 7 win season is par.  

Gase is signed for 4 years and it's 4 years he shall have.  Personally, I'd sign him to an extension before Kraft comes trying to swipe him in 2022.

SAR I

Past the point of prove it??  

They went 6-2 against trash and very mediocre teams.  The one team (Ravens) in which they played that was actually good, they were blown out in that game.  The other loss was against a team that was winless up to that point.  

The 6-2 is good but doesn't mean anything.  They proved going 6-2 that they may be a mediocre team.  

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I don't think Gase is a good HC and I think his reputation has been greatly bolstered by his endorsement from Peyton Manning but I have to give credit where it's due. This team could have spiraled out of control after 1-7 and they didn't. Rallying to go 7-9(yes I know they played horrible teams) has to be a feather in his cap.

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11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I think Wilson is great, I think he's a top QB.  Outside of Brady/Rodgers I think he does more with less than any QB.

ya kjnow..  went back and looked at the numbers...      do you know how many masturbating/money shot gifs there'd be on

JetNation if SAM played like that? mamma mia. 

I think he's defo gonna go down as great

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1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

ya kjnow..  went back and looked at the numbers...      do you know how many masturbating/money shot gifs there'd be on

JetNation if SAM played like that? mamma mia. 

I think he's defo gonna go down as great

I really like Sam, I think he has shown enough with not much around him to tell me he's going to be a good one.  Let's hope the OL comes together and they stay healthy, if so I think he's going to have a big year.

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1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I really like Sam, I think he has shown enough with not much around him to tell me he's going to be a good one.  Let's hope the OL comes together and they stay healthy, if so I think he's going to have a big year.

I like Sam alot as well, seems a great , hardworking kid.

I just don't  translate that into overly high expectations ....based on what I have seen so far. 

So far, to me, he's Andy Dalton 2.0

Let's hope it doesn't stay that way...

 

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12 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Past the point of prove it??  

They went 6-2 against trash and very mediocre teams.  The one team (Ravens) in which they played that was actually good, they were blown out in that game.  The other loss was against a team that was winless up to that point.  

The 6-2 is good but doesn't mean anything.  They proved going 6-2 that they may be a mediocre team.  

trash?  two of those teams were still vying for a playoff spot.  they may have turned out to be trash but they were still very much alive and should've been playing hard.  and it's not like the doltfins were tanking the season either.

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3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

I like Sam alot as well, seems a great , hardworking kid.

I just don't  translate that into overly high expectations ....based on what I have seen so far. 

So far, to me, he's Andy Dalton 2.0

Let's hope it doesn't stay that way...

 

Andy Dalton isn't bad but I think Sam's ceiling is much higher. Imagine him getting to play with an AJ Green?

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15 minutes ago, rangerous said:

trash?  two of those teams were still vying for a playoff spot.  they may have turned out to be trash but they were still very much alive and should've been playing hard.  and it's not like the doltfins were tanking the season either.

I didn’t say those two teams were trash. Those teams I classified as mediocre.  Hence why I said the teams were either trash or very mediocre.  

The Dolphins not tanking also doesn't mean they weren't trash.  

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20 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

I like Sam alot as well, seems a great , hardworking kid.

I just don't  translate that into overly high expectations ....based on what I have seen so far. 

So far, to me, he's Andy Dalton 2.0

Let's hope it doesn't stay that way...

 

I think he's much better than Andy Dalton.  Sam has made throws in particular a couple throws in the Giants game in which he was going down that Dalton couldn't dream of making.  

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12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Andy Dalton's first two seasons he won 19 games and made the playoffs twice.  He threw for 1,200 more yards, 11 more TDs and 1 more INT.   The year before he arrived, the Bengals were 4-12. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The year before 4-12 they won the incredibly tough AFC North. They also drafted AJ Green in 2011.

I like Dalton, he was a solid starter in that Eli/Flacco class but Cincinnati was very talented when he took over. Much more than the Jets when Sam took over plus he had a much better coach than Bowles.

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2 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

made throws in particular a couple throws in the Giants game in which he was going down that Dalton couldn't dream of making. 

Dalton threw for 4018 yds and 2 TDs v Seattle last year...

let's see what Sam can do...

and again with makes plays other Qbs cant? watch some hilights of other Qbs..

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Just now, Losmeister said:

Dalton threw for 4018 yds and 2 TDs v Seattle last year...

let's see what Sam can do...

and again with makes plays other Qbs cant? watch some hilights of other Qbs..

One thing I know for sure,  Sam will never throw for 4,018 yds in a game.  

In regards to the throws I'm referring to, I'm not sure if Dalton can make those throws to be honest so maybe I was reaching with that statement.  I can't watch every QB every week obviously.  All I'm saying is I watch as many games as I can every week and there a few QBs I've seen that can make those types of throws accurately while being taken down.  Take that how you will because I'm not an expert.  

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4 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

One thing I know for sure,  Sam will never throw for 4,018 yds in a game.  

In regards to the throws I'm referring to, I'm not sure if Dalton can make those throws to be honest so maybe I was reaching with that statement.  I can't watch every QB every week obviously.  All I'm saying is I watch as many games as I can every week and there a few QBs I've seen that can make those types of throws accurately while being taken down.  Take that how you will because I'm not an expert.  

great typo, eh?

 

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Just now, Losmeister said:

great typo, eh?

 

haha I get what you're saying though.  I'm not completely sold on Sam.  I just think his ceiling is much higher than Dalton.  He has to learn how to overcome the mistakes.  

Sam theoretically has better talent around him this year in comparison to last year so hopefully we should see a big jump in his statistical output.  He's only thrown over 300 yards 4 times at this point in his career.  In comparison, Daniel Jones threw over 300 yards 5 times in his rookie year.  No excuses this year just production.  

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2 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

All semantics. Gase would be a 5 year HC with a losing record if the Jets win 6 or 7 games in 2020.  That's a big enough sample size to determine his worth and as far as I'm concerned, it would be time to move on.  This is a win now league, and 5 years is an appropriate amount of time to determine that Gase is not a winner. 

The Jets hit absolute rock-bottom in 2017 and Christopher Johnson announced a patient rebuild.  In 2018 we draft a franchise quarterback, have another rock-bottom season, and clean house completely.  In 2019 we get some bad breaks with illness and injury and after a 1-7 start finish strong at 6-2.  Most impressive is the culture.  No one wants to leave.  No one is backstabbing in the media.

This isn't Year 5.  He just finished Year 1.  And he finished strong.  How anyone could look at 6-2 after 1-7 and not be impressed is beyond me, just epic levels of "I wanted Mike McCarthy" hating.

This isn't a "win now" team, so this isn't a "win now" season for Gase.  We are years ahead of our rebuild and Adam Gase is a big part of that.  What he was able to do in the front office, the locker room, and on the field has been more than any head coach since Rex Ryan, and he was the "win now" head coach.  

SAR I

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22 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

He's only thrown over 300 yards 4 times at this point in his career.  In comparison, Daniel Jones threw over 300 yards 5 times in his rookie year.  No excuses this year just production.  

hence, my sig.

please, Balllin, look an Andy Dalton hilites...   and then tell me why , precisely, would Sams ceiling be much higher?

to me, it feels like cos we spent the #6 PLUS THREE 2nd rnders, instead of just one 2nd , as in Dalton's case,

is the only reason people WANT Sam's ceiling to be much higher

 

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19 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets hit absolute rock-bottom in 2017 and Christopher Johnson announced a patient rebuild.  In 2018 we draft a franchise quarterback, have another rock-bottom season, and clean house completely.  In 2019 we get some bad breaks with illness and injury and after a 1-7 start finish strong at 6-2.  Most impressive is the culture.  No one wants to leave.  No one is backstabbing in the media.

This isn't Year 5.  He just finished Year 1.  And he finished strong.  How anyone could look at 6-2 after 1-7 and not be impressed is beyond me, just epic levels of "I wanted Mike McCarthy" hating.

This isn't a "win now" team, so this isn't a "win now" season for Gase.  We are years ahead of our rebuild and Adam Gase is a big part of that.  What he was able to do in the front office, the locker room, and on the field has been more than any head coach since Rex Ryan, and he was the "win now" head coach.  

SAR I

Of course this is a win now team.  The division is wide open.  The Bills are the best team on paper but have a suspect QB and JD has done a good job of improving the team where it was weakest.  The Jets aren't going to be happy with minimal progress in 2020 when the division title is no longer a pipe dream.  By your own logic, the 6-2 finish should mean that the team and coach "figured it out" and should be poised to take the next step.  A 6-7 win season in 2020 would be a far cry from any reasonable measurement of "progress."  If the Jets aren't a .500 team or better in 2020, Gase will be gone. 

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Just now, Losmeister said:

hence, my sig.

please, Balllin, look an Andy Dalton hilites...   and then tell me why , precisely, would Sams ceiling be much higher?

to me, it feels like cos we spent the #6 PLUS THREE 2nd rnders, instead of just one 2nd , as in Dalton's case,

is the only reason people WANT Sam's ceiling to be much higher

 

watched the video.  There was alot of running in that video.  No truly impressive throws to speak of.  I seen him throw into tight single coverage where the receiver made a good play.  A couple of completed passes on the slant.  

The two throws I was really impressed from Darnold here was at time stamps 4:20 and 7:20.  Those were the throws I was speaking of making when you are bring dragged down by a defender and still making an accurate on time throw.  Not sure how many QBs can do that. 

 

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7 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

If the Jets aren't a .500 team or better in 2020, Gase will be gone. 

Don't get your hopes up.  Just because Douglas signed a 6-year deal doesn't mean his plans were to oust Gase as soon as possible.  This is a 6 or 7-win roster, with 8-8 or 9-7 only being possible if Darnold has a monster season.  A sub-.500 season won't be enough to get Gase fired.

Now, if we bottom out to 5 wins or fewer?  Sure, I could see it.  

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