THE BARON Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Beerfish said: Sam Darnold is a more effective QB rolling out and making plays. Gase would take russel wilson and lamar jackson and make them pocket passers. It comes down to what does the QB do best and how can i make an offense to suit him. Making Darnold a pocket passer is limiting his effectiveness. Im glad you get it... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said: I believe that football 101 is "Low man wins." You're worried about offending me? If I don't respond in five minutes will you quote me another few times? My reasoning is that the positives you are quoting for Darnold are things that mainly matter when the play breaks down. They don't help you devise a scheme. Other than moving the pocket, which of your suggestions is specific to Darnold? It would be nice to have a decent running game. I don't understand why Darnold needs one more than any other QB, or Gase specifically a deliberate straight ahead runner. Darnold is not a running QB. He is a bit mobile and can extend plays/employees. The way to help him is to have successful plays and then let him work his magic on the ones that don't work. You don't predicate an offense on a QB's ability to throw from any arm angle. Finally, you should know this from your other identities, but repping your own posts is sad and pathetic. "sad and pathetic" How banal... And I don't agree with your post above, because it is not cogent. You don't seem to grasp what every competent and successful administrator knows. Operations are designed around the strengths of your players. A QB's ability to move, throw on the move and think on the move are not reserved for the times "the play breaks down". If that is your reasoning, you don't belong in this argument... Your lack of cognitive reasoning is "sad and pathetic" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jetsfan80 Posted May 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, THE BARON said: "sad and pathetic" How banal... What part of that assessment is inaccurate? It's like you're masterbating all over a message board. "Oh god look at this point I just made. Such a good point, oh yeah." 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, 14 in Green said: For the last 6 months I've been reading where people here point to Sam's last 8 games, talk about the numbers he put up in them as proof that he is an elite Franchise QB. My question to you is... Who's offense was Darnold running at that time? Sam's numbers were not very impressive during any part of the season. In the back half of the season they won more games, but that was due to the low quality of the competition. What we saw from Sam were demonstrations of special ability. Put him in an offense that is better suited to his skill set and add in intelligent play calling and we'll probably see consistently impressive play from Sam. Need I remind anyone here of a certain QB going to a certain HC/OC and requesting that the offense go through a few changes ??? That is not only compelling, it is an absolute matter of record. No supposition there and it speaks directly to the larger point of form following function. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: What part of that assessment is inaccurate? It's like you're masterbating all over a message board. "Oh god look at this point I just made. Such a good point, oh yeah." I'm taking lessons. From Jamal 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, THE BARON said: Sam's numbers were not very impressive during any part of the season. And, amazingly, still with the effects of mono and worse, an offense he’s not suited to run. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, THE BARON said: "sad and pathetic" How banal... And I don't agree with your post above, because it is not cogent. You don't seem to grasp what every competent and successful administrator knows. Operations are designed around the strengths of your players. A QB's ability to move, throw on the move and think on the move are not reserved for the times "the play breaks down". If that is your reasoning, you don't belong in this argument... Your lack of cognitive reasoning is "sad and pathetic" You forgot to upvote this nonsense. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: 15 minutes ago, THE BARON said: Sam's numbers were not very impressive during any part of the season. And, amazingly, still with the effects of mono and worse, an offense he’s not suited to run. You can dig out some good numbers, but for 2019 Sam was only 25th in total QBR. Not blaming Sam. There were plenty of issues including coaching. https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jet Nut Posted May 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2020 55 minutes ago, THE BARON said: You can dig out some good numbers, but for 2019 Sam was only 25th in total QBR. Not blaming Sam. There were plenty of issues including coaching. https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr Yeah those pesky good numbers that fly on the face of what you said are so annoying. I gave you the last 8 games. You said at no time were his numbers impressive. At no time. Right? Yeah but those numbers dont really count, got it. A 22 year old, 2nd year QB with a little over a year of experience on a team devoid of offensive talent. When not rushed even he was damn good. And the point here is that you were wrong. No one gives a shlt about QBR. Other than ESPN it’s pointless enough, never mind the whole season 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Jet Nut said: Yeah those pesky good numbers that fly on the face of what you said are so annoying. I gave you the last 8 games. You said at no time were his numbers impressive. A 22 year old, 2nd year QB with a little over a year of experience on a team devoid of offensive talent. When not rushed even better. And still The point is proven that you were wrong. No one gives a shlt about QBR. Other than ESPN it’s pointless enough, never mind the whole season Right. Your stats are significant, but the ones I refer to are BS. Have a look at the QB's at the top of the QBR totem pole and then look at the ones at the bottom with Sam. Here are a few more BS numbers for you to put in your pocket. Passing Leaders https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=PASSING&sortOrder=0&page=1 TD's https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=SCORING WOW... HOF Performance by Sam. It must be that brilliant VERY ABSOLUTE LAST in the league Adam Gase offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, THE BARON said: You can dig out some good numbers, but for 2019 Sam was only 25th in total QBR. Not blaming Sam. There were plenty of issues including coaching. https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr I don’t agree with you about Gase, but I’ve got to admit, you’re doing a great job keeping this thread a lot more entertaining, and definitely more interesting than the Adams threads we’ve been inundated with here lately. Plus you’re ruffling a few feathers while doing it, which is something I always like to see. ?????? Nice job Baron... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, THE BARON said: Right. Your stats are significant, but the ones I refer to are BS. Have a look at the QB's at the top of the QBR totem pole and then look at the ones at the bottom with Sam. Here are a few more BS numbers for you to put in your pocket. Passing Leaders https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=PASSING&sortOrder=0&page=1 TD's https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=SCORING WOW... HOF Performance by Sam. It must be that brilliant VERY ABSOLUTE LAST in the league Adam Gase offense. People here only hate things like QBR and PFF when it doesn’t suit the argument (excuse) they’re trying to make. Trust me, you’ll be amazed how much more “credible” QBR will become if you know who rises above the bottom of the rankings. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #27TheDominator Posted May 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: I don’t agree with you about Gase, but I’ve got to admit, you’re doing a great job keeping this thread a lot more entertaining, and definitely more interesting than the Adams threads we’ve been inundated with here lately. Plus you’re ruffling a few feathers while doing it, which is something I always like to see. ?????? Nice job Baron... Please don't encourage him to start another Adams thread. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 20andOut Posted May 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2020 Stopped reading at the "either you agree with me or you are ignorant" opening 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 37 minutes ago, THE BARON said: Right. Your stats are significant, but the ones I refer to are BS. Have a look at the QB's at the top of the QBR totem pole and then look at the ones at the bottom with Sam. Here are a few more BS numbers for you to put in your pocket. Passing Leaders https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=PASSING&sortOrder=0&page=1 TD's https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=SCORING WOW... HOF Performance by Sam. It must be that brilliant VERY ABSOLUTE LAST in the league Adam Gase offense. You said he didnt play well in ANY PART OF THE SEASON. ANY. We know the season on a whole was poor. I dont need lists. He was sick, he missed time and then he played better. Much better. Read what I posted. Sorry it kills your narrative. As wrong as it is because he played well over the last 8 games, no matter how many different ways you say it. Your words, eat them and stop already, every part of this thread is wrong. Sam Darnold never was and never will be a running QB. Hes a pocket passer who can get out and move around, run if he has to. Hes like Wentz and others, hes not Russell Wilson or Allen. WOW...HOF performance, who said this? Anyone? Other than you? OMG, you thread started badly and just keeps getting worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: People here only hate things like QBR and PFF when it doesn’t suit the argument (excuse) they’re trying to make. Trust me, you’ll be amazed how much more “credible” QBR will become if you know who rises above the bottom of the rankings. No body anywhere quotes or uses QBR. Other than ESPN and you know it. Its convoluted 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 7 hours ago, THE BARON said: Easy and obvious answer for you. The Jets seemed to get well... But. The got well on the worst teams in the league. I truly wish you confidence was well founded, but to my agony, I know you are way off the mark... I like Joe Douglas and I like Greg Williams. I have faith in them that comes from their performance. I have zero faith in Gase. Quite the contrary. Gase is a team killer. Of the 7 wins we beat Dallas, Pitt, and the Raiders all of which would have been playoff teams had we not beaten them. Also, games like the Giants are not easy due to the cross town rivalry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdels62 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said: Of the 7 wins we beat Dallas, Pitt, and the Raiders all of which would have been playoff teams had we not beaten them. Also, games like the Giants are not easy due to the cross town rivalry. Plus last year’s Jets weren’t a good team. We beat bad teams while being a bad team with a bottom 3 OL, missing Jamal Adams for 2 games, after losing our top TD threat in Griffin, and having to start a ILB that was replacing our replacement ILB. Dismissing wins against bad teams assumes we weren’t a bad team. Talent wise- we were awful. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 When it comes to the Jets we shouldn’t need numbers to know who’s good and who isn’t. Stats are interesting and can helpful to understand players you don’t watch every week. But we all watch this team a lot and have likely seen virtually every play. There are some things that are very clear to anyone that paid attention ... 1) Gase did NOT use Sam’s strengths to his advantage. It’s very obvious. 2) Sam is exceptionally talented and can be special if given the opportunity 3) The Jets offense was decimated with injuries to an already talent deficient roster. Bottom line, Sam ran into the trifecta of badness and still was solid...The worst OL in the league, the worst weapons in the league and the worst offensive coaching in the league. Two of the three have been improved, but nothing we can do about Gase until CJ comes to his senses. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Easily one of the dumbest threads all off-season, and that is saying something. OP using Total QBR to make another stupid point is the cherry on top of this sh*t sundae. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HawkeyeJet Posted May 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2020 Maybe it's already been said, but anyone who thinks a "straight ahead, power runner" is the ideal fit for a zone blocking scheme doesn't know much about zone blocking based run game. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 4 hours ago, 20andOut said: Stopped reading at the "either you agree with me or you are ignorant" opening Exactly. The utter arrogance of the original post is epicly assinine. Its quite shocking actually. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 54 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: Maybe it's already been said, but anyone who thinks a "straight ahead, power runner" is the ideal fit for a zone blocking scheme doesn't know much about zone blocking based run game. Exactly. If you're going to try and pass yourself off as a football "intellectual", at least be good at faking it. I mean seriously, how can you write so many paragraphs, lecturing half the forum, and not be right in one single thing you said? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said: Exactly. The utter arrogance of the original post is epicly assinine. Its quite shocking actually. Given the source? Not really. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mogglez said: Exactly. If you're going to try and pass yourself off as a football "intellectual", at least be good at faking it. I mean seriously, how can you write so many paragraphs, lecturing half the forum, and not be right in one single thing you said? But he said there'd be lots of science? 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mogglez Posted May 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: But he said there'd be lots of science? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mogglez said: Given the source? Not really. I forgot that point actually, thank you Mogs for waking me up! The OP is quite the clown to try to respond to..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 So are we saying there is no real science at work here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: So are we saying there is no real science at work here? Oh theres science Nut, plenty of fantasy science! You would be amazed! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vader Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Yeah those pesky good numbers that fly on the face of what you said are so annoying. I gave you the last 8 games. You said at no time were his numbers impressive. At no time. Right? Yeah but those numbers dont really count, got it. A 22 year old, 2nd year QB with a little over a year of experience on a team devoid of offensive talent. When not rushed even he was damn good. And the point here is that you were wrong. No one gives a shlt about QBR. Other than ESPN it’s pointless enough, never mind the whole season I’ve been making the same point. It’s not nothing... Darnold is expected to become a FQB... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 14 hours ago, 14 in Green said: I don’t agree with you about Gase, but I’ve got to admit, you’re doing a great job keeping this thread a lot more entertaining, and definitely more interesting than the Adams threads we’ve been inundated with here lately. Plus you’re ruffling a few feathers while doing it, which is something I always like to see. ?????? Nice job Baron... Thank you... I endeavor to get a little orange juice. Like Parcells said... "What do you get when you squeeze an orange ??? You get orange juice" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 14 hours ago, Jet Nut said: You said he didnt play well in ANY PART OF THE SEASON. ANY. We know the season on a whole was poor. I dont need lists. He was sick, he missed time and then he played better. Much better. Read what I posted. Sorry it kills your narrative. As wrong as it is because he played well over the last 8 games, no matter how many different ways you say it. Your words, eat them and stop already, every part of this thread is wrong. Sam Darnold never was and never will be a running QB. Hes a pocket passer who can get out and move around, run if he has to. Hes like Wentz and others, hes not Russell Wilson or Allen. WOW...HOF performance, who said this? Anyone? Other than you? OMG, you thread started badly and just keeps getting worse. My point is spot on. You don't want to admit it. Remember... I am not knocking Sam. This post is about Gase and his propensity to jam square pegs into round holes. Sam showed he has talent. Special talent. However, never were his numbers league leading as you suggest they were by picking a few stats out of the comprehensive numbers in order to support your point. Bottom line. The Jets offense was dead last in overall production last year and it was GASE'S fault. Blame it on the line if you like, but it was ALL GASE. He does not know how best to use Sam (until Sam gave him a clue) and he DEFINATELY blew Bell's potential contribution STRAIGHT OUT OF HISS ASS... Yield to the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 14 hours ago, 20andOut said: Stopped reading at the "either you agree with me or you are ignorant" opening I don't get it ??? I give this group commentary and prognostication of a sublime quality you will see nowhere else and this is how you reciprocate ??? You can lead a horse to water but you cant make the horse drink... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 12 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said: Of the 7 wins we beat Dallas, Pitt, and the Raiders all of which would have been playoff teams had we not beaten them. Also, games like the Giants are not easy due to the cross town rivalry. Dallas didn't take the Jets seriously, the Raiders had to travel to the east coast which is usually a killer and the Pittsburg game was won by a very good performance by the defense. The offense did little to nothing vs the Steelers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 11 hours ago, FidelioJet said: When it comes to the Jets we shouldn’t need numbers to know who’s good and who isn’t. Stats are interesting and can helpful to understand players you don’t watch every week. But we all watch this team a lot and have likely seen virtually every play. There are some things that are very clear to anyone that paid attention ... 1) Gase did NOT use Sam’s strengths to his advantage. It’s very obvious. 2) Sam is exceptionally talented and can be special if given the opportunity 3) The Jets offense was decimated with injuries to an already talent deficient roster. Bottom line, Sam ran into the trifecta of badness and still was solid...The worst OL in the league, the worst weapons in the league and the worst offensive coaching in the league. Two of the three have been improved, but nothing we can do about Gase until CJ comes to his senses. Agree 100 %. Sam was flashing his very special talents all season long despite circumstances. Greg Williams was also masterful considering injuries and lack of manpower at CB and on the edge. The roster was indeed a limiting factor, but that was not nearly enough of a smoke screen not to realize just how inept GASE is. The figured it out in Miami. Even the fan boys here will get it through their thick skulls by the end of this season. I am hopeful that JD will be on the job and will do the right thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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