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THE BARON

Darnold's Skill Set To Gase's System...

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11 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Maybe it's already been said, but anyone who thinks a "straight ahead, power runner" is the ideal fit for a zone blocking scheme doesn't know much about zone blocking based run game.

That is not what I said.  It is a convenient argument for you to make, but you are taking a fragment of what I said and distorting what was an accurate point.  Where did you learn that tactic ??? Harvard Law ???

For the uneducated and the *third rate wanna-be lawyers* among us, you can run smash mouth with zone blocking or man blocking, or a combination of both like Bill Callahan did when he was the line coach with the Jets under Rex. 

I'm always up for having my line of reasoning scrutinized and argued, but please be accurate and honest.  Anything else is a waste of band with for the sake of getting a chance to swing your sack around. 

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11 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Easily one of the dumbest threads all off-season, and that is saying something.

OP using Total QBR to make another stupid point is the cherry on top of this sh*t sundae.

I show you quality and what do you do ??? This ?!?!?! Well..  I, never !!!

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Someone wanted to increase their post count I see

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42 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

My point is spot on.  You don't want to admit it.  Remember... I am not knocking Sam.  This post is about Gase and his propensity to jam square pegs into round holes.  Sam showed he has talent.  Special talent.  However, never were his numbers league leading as you suggest they were by picking a few stats out of the comprehensive numbers in order to support your point.  

Bottom line.  The Jets offense was dead last in overall production last year and it was GASE'S fault.  Blame it on the line if you like, but it was ALL GASE.  He does not know how best to use Sam (until Sam gave him a clue) and he DEFINATELY blew Bell's potential contribution STRAIGHT OUT OF HISS ASS...

Yield to the facts.

Your point is completely wrong.  Your point misses the point.  No one was going to coach an effective, consistent offense with the assembled talent on the team and the injuries that just compounded that situation.  All the missed analysis about zone blocking etc just adds to that omission.  

There is nothing about Gases passing scheme that doesnt mix with Darnolds strengths.  Ever analyst on the planet has commented how the system is suited to Sam.  Every fan who understands offense and what Gase is TYRYING to do do gets that Sam is suited to the system.  No one, other than you thinks Sam is a square peg trying to be fitted into a round hole.  Complain that you think Gases play calling sucked or that it sucked because of that lack of talent, pick hour poison, but it wasn't a scheme issue.  

Please stop already.  I didnt pick a few stats.  I picked Yds per attempt, TDs, TD/INT %, PFF QB Ratings, being the 8th rated QB, being the highest rushed passer.  Those aren't a few.  Only thing of consequence missing is yardage.  And when the rush is held in check he was the 4th highest rated QB in the NFL.  Those numbers are pretty damn significant.  I get it, doesnt fit your its the system complaint.  

Bottom line, youre wrong, everyone has pointed out how wrong you are.  And most telling you this are not fans of Gase.  Sometimes its just the players and not  theories like zone blocking requires a straight ahead power back and won't work with Darnold because that's just not true 

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Bottom line, youre wrong, everyone has pointed out how wrong you are.  And most telling you this are not fans of Gase.  Sometimes its just the players and not  theories like zone blocking requires a straight ahead power back and won't work with Darnold because that's just not true 

I hate to say it, but... There you go again...

You state EVERYONE has pointed out I am wrong ??? That is a fallacious statement. 

If you go back and read the entire thread you will see that others do in fact agree with me.  So did/do all the learned fans that were VOCALLY and VISIBLY calling for GEASE'S head this past season.  

1. Gase does not know what to do best with Darnold.  And for that matter, Bell.

It is a very simple point ant I supported it with a lot of quality.

You like Gase, fine... You don't see what I see.  Fine.   

But I'm right :-) 

Wanna know what we will both see at the end of the 2020 season ???

Gase gets promoted out of NY by JD.  

Book it.

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11 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Exactly.

The utter arrogance of the original post is epicly assinine. Its quite shocking actually.

New in town? 

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Sam has a 108.3 passer rating and the Jets average 29 points, when pressure rate of below 34 percent (about league average). The Jets are also 7-1 when the line reaches that benchmark. Hopefully Joe fixed the line, because if he has, the offense led by Sam should be fine and you don't have feature an offense around designed rollouts.

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11 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Exactly.

The utter arrogance of the original post is epicly assinine. Its quite shocking actually.

It was provocative, eh ???

Do you have an opinion or any thoughts on the matter or was the original post too *SHOCKING* to digest ???

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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

Dallas didn't take the Jets seriously, the Raiders had to travel to the east coast which is usually a killer and the Pittsburg game was won by a very good performance by the defense.  The offense did little to nothing vs the Steelers

Sounds like a convenient bunch of excuses to me.

Wasn't the Steelers game the game where Darnold threw that pinpoint dart pass to the back of the endzone to Anderson, while he was covered by 2 defenders? On a top 3 Defense too, sounds like more than nothing to me.

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29 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I hate to say it, but... There you go again...

You state EVERYONE has pointed out I am wrong ??? That is a fallacious statement. 

If you go back and read the entire thread you will see that others do in fact agree with me.  So did/do all the learned fans that were VOCALLY and VISIBLY calling for GEASE'S head this past season.  

1. Gase does not know what to do best with Darnold.  And for that matter, Bell.

It is a very simple point ant I supported it with a lot of quality.

You like Gase, fine... You don't see what I see.  Fine.   

But I'm right :-) 

Wanna know what we will both see at the end of the 2020 season ???

Gase gets promoted out of NY by JD.  

Book it.

Everyone.   Ok 99%, feel better?  
Sorry, you’re still wrong.  

You haven’t presented science or backup.  Just your opinions that fly on the face of most people’s opinions.  But do carry on, this is an epic beating

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42 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

It was provocative, eh ???

Do you have an opinion or any thoughts on the matter or was the original post too *SHOCKING* to digest ???

Too shocking, I'm aghast....

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I don't  think this is that big a deal. We saw Sam improve when he and Gase spoke about what Sam liked to do last season. Is Gase just going to throw all that out now? I doubt it. 

Sam can also function really well in a static pocket, we have seen him do this even in his rookie season. He has a sence of when he needs to slide and step up. I do agree Sam is very good and accurate passer when moving but that isn't  to say he should operate from a O predicated on that, it is just something he can do when a play breaks down.

The thing you don't  want to see is Gase forcing  his static pocket O in a situation  where it clearly isn't  working. You want to see him try some desinged rollouts in those situations just to give the D something else to think about. 

I think Sam will be fine in Gase's O.

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3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Here's accurate and honest.  I know a lot more about zone blocking schemes than you do.  A lot more.

I don't care that I do, nor do I think it's some badge of honor.  I don't care how much or how little any person knows regarding football schemes. It isn't a requirement as a fan to be able to know what schemes are used and why. 

What I do care about for is when someone like you tries talking down to people when they are clearly full of sh*t. 

I'm sure you know a lot more than everyone.  Lombardi, Parcells, Walsh and Belichic all tremble at your feet.  Just 'cause you say so... Its fact.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Everyone.   Ok 99%, feel better?  
Sorry, you’re still wrong.  

You haven’t presented science or backup.  Just your opinions that fly on the face of most people’s opinions.  But do carry on, this is an epic beating

I see.  You are declaring victory.   If it makes you feel better...

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23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  think this is that big a deal. We saw Sam improve when he and Gase spoke about what Sam liked to do last season. Is Gase just going to throw all that out now? I doubt it. 

Sam can also function really well in a static pocket, we have seen him do this even in his rookie season. He has a sence of when he needs to slide and step up. I do agree Sam is very good and accurate passer when moving but that isn't  to say he should operate from a O predicated on that, it is just something he can do when a play breaks down.

The thing you don't  want to see is Gase forcing  his static pocket O in a situation  where it clearly isn't  working. You want to see him try some desinged rollouts in those situations just to give the D something else to think about. 

I think Sam will be fine in Gase's O.

This is perhaps the most useful post of them all... You suggest that Gase will not throw out the progress they made *after* he eased up on his compulsions and listened to Sam's request for constructive change.

This is key.

I have no doubt that Gase is dedicated, competitive and a very hard worker along with being very intelligent in general. 

Will he drop his sad attachment to an old security blanket, open his mind and orchestrate a destiny for himself apart from the one that Peyton Manning gifted him ???

This is a real question... 

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7 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I see.  You are declaring victory.   If it makes you feel better...

I do

 

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34 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

This is perhaps the most useful post of them all... You suggest that Gase will not throw out they made *after* he eased up on his compulsions and listened to Sam's request for constructive change.

This is key.

Its called getting used to each other.

Sam, after being in a new system a couple of months went to Gase to tell him preferences.  Gase changed his game plans and play calls to fit those preferences like a HC/OC should.  Gase adapted the plays to those Sam was comfortable at that time.  

Exactly what you've been saying Gase didn't do.  Exactly the opposite of fitting a round peg in a square hole

 

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its called getting used to each other.

Sam, after being in a new system a couple of months went to Gase to tell him preferences.  Gase changed his game plans and play calls to fit those preferences like a HC/OC should.  Gase adapted the plays to those Sam was comfortable at that time.  

Exactly what you've been saying Gase didn't do.  Exactly the opposite of fitting a round peg in a square hole

 

Saying it is called "getting used to each other" is trivializing the matter.  What Sam had to explain to him are things that even a Pop Warner coach should be able to see quickly and clearly.  

I am *REALLY* looking forward to this season.  Not so much that I am looking forward to watching the Jets field a bottom third offense, but I know the man hiding behind the curtain is going to be exposed.  Then we can move on.  I think JD knows his business and it is encouraging for the future despite the rotten apple at the top of the barrel. 

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1 hour ago, MindOverMatter said:

Sounds like a convenient bunch of excuses to me.

Wasn't the Steelers game the game where Darnold threw that pinpoint dart pass to the back of the endzone to Anderson, while he was covered by 2 defenders? On a top 3 Defense too, sounds like more than nothing to me.

Yes... I remember that amazing pass.  Sam shows special talent.  Even Gase cant smother it totally...

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33 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Saying it is called "getting used to each other" is trivializing the matter.  What Sam had to explain to him are things that even a Pop Warner coach should be able to see quickly and clearly.  

I am *REALLY* looking forward to this season.  Not so much that I am looking forward to watching the Jets field a bottom third offense, but I know the man hiding behind the curtain is going to be exposed.  Then we can move on.  I think JD knows his business and it is encouraging for the future despite the rotten apple at the top of the barrel. 

No, "getting used to each other" or :"learning a new system" is what it was.  Sorry again.  You again show how little you know if you actually believe that "Sam had to explain to him are things that even a Pop Warner coach should be able to see quickly and clearly."  You have to stop with the over the top simplicity and lunacy.  

Again: 

Sam, after being in a new system a couple of months went to Gase to tell him preferences.  Gase changed his game plans and play calls to fit those preferences like a HC/OC should.  Gase adapted the plays to those Sam was comfortable at that time.  

Exactly what you've been saying Gase didn't do.  Exactly the opposite of fitting a round peg in a square hole.  The whole premise of this thread shot to shlt

You can look forward to whatever clown show matches this thread, its your twisted hope for the season?  Says a lot 

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28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No, "getting used to each other" or :"learning a new system" is what it was.  Sorry again.  You again show how little you know if you actually believe that "Sam had to explain to him are things that even a Pop Warner coach should be able to see quickly and clearly."  You have to stop with the over the top simplicity and lunacy.  

Again: 

Sam, after being in a new system a couple of months went to Gase to tell him preferences.  Gase changed his game plans and play calls to fit those preferences like a HC/OC should.  Gase adapted the plays to those Sam was comfortable at that time.  

Exactly what you've been saying Gase didn't do.  Exactly the opposite of fitting a round peg in a square hole.  The whole premise of this thread shot to shlt

You can look forward to whatever clown show matches this thread, its your twisted hope for the season?  Says a lot 

You complicate the obvious and trivialize the momentous as it suits your purposes.  Keep defending Gase and his offensive system.  Use any evasion, distraction or red herring you like to detract from what I have been explaining.  The clock is ticking.  The season will start. Games will be played.  There is no way to avoid what we will all see play out on the field.  By the end of the 2020 there wont be a single fox-hole left for Gase or any of his apologists to jump in. 

 

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I think sprint rolls have a place in an offensive with a guy who is mobile enough to do it.  Sam can do this no doubt. But I also remember my college coaches screaming and drilling into his offensive coaches head that roll outs essentially take half the field away while on offense.  Considering the talent level of the Jets last year and the inability of any of our (Robby once in a while created space but mostly just deep) receivers to get separation it spelt disaster mostly on designed plays that sprint out was called for. Where it worked more was a off design run around created by Sam.  I am not a Gase lover but I cannot throw serious shade on a guy who had no talent surrounding him and for the most part had no running game and a less than mediocre wide out group. How can you judge anything?

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25 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

You complicate the obvious and trivialize the momentous as it suits your purposes.  Keep defending Gase and his offensive system.  Use any evasion, distraction or red herring you like to detract from what I have been explaining.  The clock is ticking.  The season will start. Games will be played.  There is no way to avoid what we will all see play out on the field.  By the end of the 2020 there wont be a single fox-hole left for Gase or any of his apologists to jump in. 

 

Yeah, I'm complicating things.  

Or defending anyone.  Easily confused with trashing your analysis, I get that.  

Evasion, distraction and red herring? Where? Is it like you talking about zone blocking without understanding what those words mean either?  Or like bringing up the HOF or MVP to combat Darnold numbers over the last 8 games or bringing up Belichick, Parcells, Walsh etc to combat a poster?  Or to put out the cliche square peg line only to have that also blow up in the face of your argument that has gone

trash GIF

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41 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, I'm complicating things.  

Or defending anyone.  Easily confused with trashing your analysis, I get that.  

Evasion, distraction and red herring? Where? Is it like you talking about zone blocking without understanding what those words mean either?  Or like bringing up the HOF or MVP to combat Darnold numbers over the last 8 games or bringing up Belichick, Parcells, Walsh etc to combat a poster?  Or to put out the cliche square peg line only to have that also blow up in the face of your argument that has gone

trash GIF

More of the same.... You don't understand or wont to admit that a QB as an asset is best used when the OC designs his system around the strengths of a given QB.  And for this specific thread, I say Gase has not done that with Darnold.

And your big piece of evidence to the contrary??? Bring up zone blocking and my supposed lack of understanding it.  

Sure... That does it.  

I award you with the largest "participation trophy" that has ever been bestowed on one who has tried as hard as you have regardless of results

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5 hours ago, THE BARON said:

I show you quality and what do you do ??? This ?!?!?! Well..  I, never !!!

A quality sh*t sundae is still a sh*t sundae.

The only "quality" you've put out is a "quality" laugh at this absolutely flaming dumpster fire you call your "analysis".

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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

More of the same.... You don't understand or wont to admit that a QB as an asset is best used when the OC designs his system around the strengths of a given QB.  And for this specific thread, I say Gase has not done that with Darnold.

And your big piece of evidence to the contrary??? Bring up zone blocking and my supposed lack of understanding it.  

Sure... That does it.  

I award you with the largest "participation trophy" that has ever been bestowed on one who has tried as hard as you have regardless of results

It's not "supposed lack".  You don't understand it. 

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2 hours ago, THE BARON said:

More of the same.... You don't understand or wont to admit that a QB as an asset is best used when the OC designs his system around the strengths of a given QB.  And for this specific thread, I say Gase has not done that with Darnold.

And your big piece of evidence to the contrary??? Bring up zone blocking and my supposed lack of understanding it.  

Sure... That does it.  

I award you with the largest "participation trophy" that has ever been bestowed on one who has tried as hard as you have regardless of results

Yes a big piece of my post is that a big part of your post, zone blockings effect on Darnolds passing game, the running game and the type of RB along with your duh moment asserting that Darnold didn't have even one decent streak are all completely and utterly wrong and the conversation useless.  Yes, that would deal with your OP and Gases offense and the alleged round peg nonsense.  There are no numbers to prove any of your zone blocking ideas are wrong, they just are because they are and because you're wrong given you have no idea about zone blocking and offense in general.  Just as your claim that you were proving things with science were comical at best and led to lots of posts poking fun at that assertion

Youre in way over your head if you converse with anyone who has even a modest knowledge of blocking schemes and offenses.  Never mind the goofy idea that Sam shouldn't pass out of the pocket and should run around like a oversized Russel Wilson.  Does that sum it up?  You started off by insulting me and now youre done

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55 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It's not "supposed lack".  You don't understand it. 

Why don't you try to make yourself even more convincing.  Along with not knowing what zone blocking is, you can add that I don't know the difference between a guard and a tackle.  And don't stop there.  You can always say that I don't even know what a football is.  That would really make your argument.  All the world bows down to the fiery logic of your of your blistering football intellect.  

Like I said before... The clock is ticking.  The season will start.  The Jets offense will underperform for reasons that include what I have been describing in this thread.  And, I'm sure you will still be cock sure of yourself.  After all, I don't even know what a quarterback is and you wrote the book.  

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3 hours ago, ageingjetfan said:

 talent surrounding him and for the most part had no running game and a less than mediocre wide out group. How can you judge anything?

Similar things were said by Gase apologists or fanboys when he was the HC in Miami.  At the end of his tenure, even his previous supporters in the Miami sports media were talking truth. 

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4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Why don't you try to make yourself even more convincing.  Along with not knowing what zone blocking is, you can add that I don't know the difference between a guard and a tackle.  And don't stop there.  You can always say that I don't even know what a football is.  That would really make your argument.  All the world bows down to the fiery logic of your of your blistering football intellect.  

Like I said before... The clock is ticking.  The season will start.  The Jets offense will underperform for reasons that include what I have been describing in this thread.  And, I'm sure you will still be cock sure of yourself.  After all, I don't even know what a quarterback is and you wrote the book.  

 

Awfully defensive for a football scientist.  

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14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes a big piece of my post is that a big part of your post, zone blockings effect on Darnolds passing game, the running game and the type of RB along with your duh moment asserting that Darnold didn't have even one decent streak are all completely and utterly wrong and the conversation useless.  Yes, that would deal with your OP and Gases offense and the alleged round peg nonsense.  There are no numbers to prove any of your zone blocking ideas are wrong, they just are because they are and because you're wrong given you have no idea about zone blocking and offense in general.  Just as your claim that you were proving things with science were comical at best and led to lots of posts poking fun at that assertion

Youre in way over your head if you converse with anyone who has even a modest knowledge of blocking schemes and offenses.  Never mind the goofy idea that Sam shouldn't pass out of the pocket and should run around like a oversized Russel Wilson.  Does that sum it up?  You started off by insulting me and now youre done

Again.  You distort things to make yourself look intelligent. All the things I mentioned like zone blocking, line shifts, misdirection, play-action, running styles were to demonstrate different components of an offense.  Such has to be understood first before you can discuss designing an offense with an overall vison in mind.  And the first insult of the thread came from you, not me.

Your response was to refute the larger point of my original post by obsessing about zone blocking.  That was never a key to the larger point.  It was something you zeroed in on because you didn't like the tenor of my post and you wanted to swing your sack around.  

For all I know you coached or played football at a high level and for many years.  Even that would not give you the standing to look into your ego driven crystal ball and exclaim that others could not possibly understand blocking schemes or that they never saw a football in their life.

And now... YOU ARE DONE

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Awfully defensive for a football scientist.  

You have a different opinion, doctor ?

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9 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

You have a different opinion, doctor ?

I think your combative nature with anyone who disagrees with you or criticizes you for a thread like this one makes message boards less fun.  

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

A quality sh*t sundae is still a sh*t sundae.

The only "quality" you've put out is a "quality" laugh at this absolutely flaming dumpster fire you call your "analysis".

I'm glad you are amused and entertained.  I don't mind the insults or put downs if they come along with some good football mixed into the masterbatch

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