Did Joe Douglas do Enough to Help Sam Darnold?

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, ljr said:

like most of us ... wanted one more WR picked in rounds 3-5

I expect one of those veteran WR cuts to be brought in for TC/Preseason

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I'm fearful on Fant but very happy with all the moves combined, that he made to address our biggest need ... the OL 

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He has taken a very strong 1st step to help both Sam & the team as a whole.

yes ... that is enough ... for now

For JD to invest 10 M on Fant is  quite telling. JD obviously feels good about Fant’s ability. And if he doesn’t deliver he can cut him next year so it’s a decent gamble. And JD is a Riverboat gambler.

[Wonderboy]

8 hours ago, Jetlife33 said:

Agreed. Im still hoping at the VERY least he can get DT to come back. At least then you would know theres at least 1 guy who plays on the outside who knows the system like the back of his hand and has played with Sam before. 

DT is a shell of his former self. Don’t even see him making this roster. Time to get younger and get these kids playing time to gel with Sam. 

[usanyj]

22 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

But the miss on taking another wr in the draft can easily be made up next year by signing a guy like JuJu who would be in his prime. JuJu or Robbie? See that was easy.  JuJu and Mins would  make a really nice 1-2 combo. 

Not sure juju shakes free. He would be 24 and depending how he rebounds from a down and injured year, he likely would get franchised either way. You would probably have to trade for him then sign him. Juju is my dream pick up since he already played with Sam. I think this is a move that needs to happen and happen now since there were rumblings of him being on the move. A top three of juju, crowder, and Mims with an improved oline and a health Herndon has some serious potential. And it’s young potential!

[Wonderboy]

Just now, usanyj said:

Not sure juju shakes free. He would be 24 and depending how he rebounds from a down and injured year, he likely would get franchised either way. You would probably have to trade for him then sign him. Juju is my dream pick up since he already played with Sam. I think this is a move that needs to happen and happen now since there were rumblings of him being on the move. A top three of juju, crowder, and Mims with an improved oline and a health Herndon has some serious potential. And it’s young potential!

Really wanted him when he came out and we could have BUT Macc the Wack. 

[FidelioJet]

The answer is a clear NO.

The defense was upgraded more than the offense and that’s bad management. it’s definitely better but more could have and should have been done. 

[Jet Nut]

Incomplete

Off season isn’t over yet, I’d bet that there is a veteran WR in our near future

That said the offense has been improved and there is enough to work with to allow Sam room to grow 

[chirorob]

17 hours ago, Jets723 said:

He couldn’t fix everything in one offseason.  Years of bad drafting and signings can’t be fixed at once.  I think Douglas did a great job so far fixing the oline and adding an many as he could.  Obviously I love the Mims pick and think he is gonna be a great weapon for Sam. But it’s gonna take another good offseason most likely 

That was pretty much what I was going to say as well.  When the team has massive holes everywhere, you can't do it all in one off season.

Address the O Line?  Check, in FA and with their 1st draft pick.

Draft a young WR?  Check

[GreenFish]

Yes. Sam has shown, when giving average time to throw, he’s an above average QB even with the weapons we had last year. Herndon is an upgrade at TE and Mims/Perriman are a wash with Robby/Thomas. But considering he was above average when giving time last year, than the weapons this year are enough.

The big question is will this OL be good enough to consistently provide average protection. I don’t know. It comes down to Fant. If Fant is descent, than the OL is good enough to allow Darnold to shine. I think it’ll be good enough.

 

[slats]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not as many quality receivers as you would think.  I looked into that after the draft and created the thread below, with a list of guys who might get traded/cut based on which teams used high picks on receivers AND can safely cut/trade the WRs from a financial perspective. 

Several of them (like Woods and Gallup) are pipe dreams, mind you, but I wanted to be comprehensive:

Jerry Jones should just trade the Jets Gallup, already. The Cowboys have Amari Cooper with another $20M guaranteed in 2021, just drafted Lamb, and have Devin Smith, for god's sake! And also a QB looking for a raise over the $31M he's currently scheduled to make. They're unlikely to be able to resign him after next year. C'mon, Jerry, you know you want some sweet Jamal! 

[Jetsfan80]

The answer is a clear NO.
The defense was upgraded more than the offense and that’s bad management. it’s definitely better but more could have and should have been done. 

Much the same way the Jets needed offensive help, other teams around the league do as well. And very few let premier offensive talent walk in the offseason.

Hence why the only “name” on offense that shook loose without coughing up crucial draft capital was no-knees, mediocre pass blocking Jack Conklin.

You demand that JD added “good players” on offense this past offseason but never listed names. Because there weren’t any.

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

when giving average time to throw, he’s an above average QB

sounds like you might have data...    stats...   do you?   or is this the famous JetNation eye test?

[slats]

10 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

sounds like you might have data...    stats...   do you?   or is this the famous JetNation eye test?

Take out his best and worst games last year, and he's near 2:1 in TDs:ints at 17:9 with a passer rating of 88.7, which would've put him just ahead of Brady and Rivers last year. 

[Losmeister]

Just now, slats said:

Take out his best and worst games last year, and he's near 2:1 in TDs:ints at 17:9 with a passer rating of 88.7, which would've put him just ahead of Brady and Rivers last year. 

did you also take out Brady and Rivers best and worst games?

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

did you also take out Brady and Rivers best and worst games?

Nope, but feel free to try it yourself. Just eye-balling it quickly, I'd guess that Brady's number doesn't change much at all, but that Rivers drops a couple points. 

[Dcat]

Douglas did a lot to help. More than any Jets GM in a very long time... decades...  But I still think he could have done a little more and he still has more to do.

[Il Mostro]

I think JD did just enough to accurately gauge what the team really has in Darnold. Hopefully, we get a full season out of Sam.  He showed a lot of promise down the stretch but it was garbage time in the season. Easy to play loose with nothing really on the line.  Let's see what he can do with improved talent over the course of the entire season and, especially, in games that count -- hopefully the Jets won't be out of it early.

[BUM-KNEE]

18 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Patience.  Rather than giving Anderson the multi-year deal he was seeking at the time, I'm fine with him holding off, and instead grabbing one of these guys next offseason, scheduled to be FA's after 2020.  I've posted this several times already but it's worth noting again:

• Chris Godwin
• T.Y. Hilton
• Keenan Allen
• Juju Smith-Schuster
• Allen Robinson
• Kenny Golladay
• Cooper Kupp

Is TY Hilton still decent?

Haven't heard much about him lately.

Edited May 30, 2020 by BUM-KNEE

[Jetsfan80]

Is TY Hilton still decent? Haven't heard much about him lately.

 

 

He’s missed 8 games in the last 2 seasons. But he’s still very productive. 1,771 yards and 11 TDs in the 24 games he’s played in the last 2 seasons.

 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Much the same way the Jets needed offensive help, other teams around the league do as well. And very few let premier offensive talent walk in the offseason.

Hence why the only “name” on offense that shook loose without coughing up crucial draft capital was no-knees, mediocre pass blocking Jack Conklin.

You demand that JD added “good players” on offense this past offseason but never listed names. Because there weren’t any.

 

You just keep repeating the same thing - I’ve listed the talent he passed on - only to. to sign mostly other team’s back ups.  I’m not going to list them every time you repeat yourself.

You know The truth as well as I do. 

[TheClashFan]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Douglas did a lot to help. More than any Jets GM in a very long time... decades...  But I still think he could have done a little more and he still has more to do.

I pretty much agree with this. The OL is very iffy...it will be better, but lots has to go right for it to be at least a league average OL. Maybe.

 

[GreenReaper]

JD did a very good job with the hand he was dealt with.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  Neither will the Jets become a juggernaut after one seasoning.  Yet he still provided the Jets with pieces for just about every facet of team needs. 

Including a punter (Mann) and long term backup QB in Morgan.  Strengthening the OL significantly with Becton-Fant-McGovern and Roten, as likely new starters. In addition to Cameron Clark for development as a solid backup and future starter. Providing a dynamic wideout in Mims.  An ideal quick hitting RB like Perine for a zone blocking scheme.  Also adding the veteran Gore...who previously had success in Gase's offense.  

Besides adding Desir...JD drafted positional versatility...with picks like Ashtyn Davis and Bryce Hall...for both the secondary and utilization in blitz packages.  And a potential future 10+ edge performer in Zuniga...who will definitely help this year.

UDFAs like Lawrence Cager, Bryce Huff and Lamar Jackson...have a chance to make the team and contribute.

And who sez he's done?  After June 1st...JD will have some more CAP flexibility to add another piece or two.  Like Ryan Logan to complete the secondary.  And Jason Peters to finalize the OL.  Also possibly add another veteran WR...perhaps resigning Demaryius Thomas...who's familiar with Darnold and Gase's playbook.

Instant...and total gratification...no.  But I'm very pleased with the job JD has done...in just one offseason.  IMO...Jets have the QB...and JD's given the Jets good team balance and enough pieces...to compete...and win...the AFCE.

For the first time in a while...I feel Jets are in the hands of a competent professional GM NYJ...who has a legit vision for this team. 

Jets are heading in the right direction under JD's command.  And feel confident...that in succeeding years...he will continue to build the Jets into a perennial playoff contender.  

Under JD's helm...Jets will no longer be a clown show...or laughing stock.  Watch out NFL...here come da Jets!  

 

[Jetsfan80]

You just keep repeating the same thing - I’ve listed the talent he passed on - only to. to sign mostly other team’s back ups.  I’m not going to list them every time you repeat yourself.
You know The truth as well as I do. 

You were serious about that list? Your list sucks, bro.

[ryu79]

No. It's better for sure, but I still think we could have improved a bit more by signing another top level G or T. I am still hoping we sign Peters.

[GreenFish]

7 hours ago, Losmeister said:

sounds like you might have data...    stats...   do you?   or is this the famous JetNation eye test?

Edit: Found it.

Here’s the analyst from Jets X Factor. A lot of this also shows up when you look at Darnold’s stats when throwing from a clean pocket (via PFF data). He ranked 8th in completion percentage in those situation. Essentially, give Darnold at least average time and he will light you up even with jags at WR. He doesn’t need star cast around him. 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2020/05/27/100-reasons-to-believe-in-new-york-jets-qb-sam-darnold/
 

In games where he was pressure by no more than the league average, he is 7-1 and did the following

Att: 229

Comp: 156 (68%)

Yards: 2,039

TD: 16

INT: 6

Passer Rating of 108.3

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You were serious about that list? Your list sucks, bro.

 

So, it’s your position that JD signed all fo the best offensive players available?

Look, he let at let at least a Tackle and Guard that would have been major upgrades go - to sign other team’s back ups.

He let Robby go to sign another teams back up...

I’m not saying he didn’t better the offense, he did.  It’s def. better - but it wasn’t enough, it was less than I expected and the fact that he did more for the defense is really what concerns me about him as a GM.  

It’s clear the offense was the problem yet he continued to put more resources into the defense than the offense.  Just because he’s done betters than his predecessors doesn’t means he’s done enough. 

You’re welcome to keep your head in the sand. I did for too long and I won’t any more.

[Losmeister]

15 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Edit: Found it.

Here’s the analyst from Jets X Factor. A lot of this also shows up when you look at Darnold’s stats when throwing from a clean pocket (via PFF data). He ranked 8th in completion percentage in those situation. Essentially, give Darnold at least average time and he will light you up even with jags at WR. He doesn’t need star cast around him. 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2020/05/27/100-reasons-to-believe-in-new-york-jets-qb-sam-darnold/
 

In games where he was pressure by no more than the league average, he is 7-1 and did the following

Att: 229

Comp: 156 (68%)

Yards: 2,039

TD: 16

INT: 6

Passer Rating of 108.3

Thank you!!!

THAT I can get behind.

As I have said many times, I like Sam and hope he excels...   its just been a rough ride so far.

[FidelioJet]

10 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Yes. Sam has shown, when giving average time to throw, he’s an above average QB even with the weapons we had last year. Herndon is an upgrade at TE and Mims/Perriman are a wash with Robby/Thomas. But considering he was above average when giving time last year, than the weapons this year are enough.

The big question is will this OL be good enough to consistently provide average protection. I don’t know. It comes down to Fant. If Fant is descent, than the OL is good enough to allow Darnold to shine. I think it’ll be good enough.

 

I think a statement like that (not saying your wrong) just that he’s above average when given time isn’t giving him enough credit.  QB is def. a position of momentum.  Getting into a groove throughout a game is a big deal.  In the few times he had time he was def. solid but I’m having a tough time thinking of a game when the line allowed him to settle in.

I have never been as confident in any QB I’ve seen with this team than Sam - just protect this kid and he’s absolutely going to flourish.  

[K_O_Brien]

Time will tell if JD did enough to help Sam. It's tempting to suggest we could have made another move or two. But not too many other GM's of teams with a young QB, did more in terms of adding notable offensive players via free agency and/or rounds 1-3 of the draft.

Arizona - Hopkins, Humphries, Jones (lost Johnson)

Baltimore - Dobbins, Duverney (lost Hurst, Roberts)

Buffalo - Diggs, Spain, Moss

Cincinnati - Green, Su'a Filo, Redmond, Higgins (lost Miller, Eifert)

Cleveland - Conklin, Hooper, Wills

Denver - Gordon, Glasgow, Jeudy, Hamler, Cushenberry (lost McGovern)

LA Chargers - Bulaga, Turner, Henry, Ekeler (lost Gordon)

Miami - Flowers, Howard, Karras, Jackson, Hunt

New England - Lee, Thuney, Asiasi, Keene (lost Dorsett, Karras)

NY Giants - Lewis, Fleming, Thomas, Peart (lost Latimer)

NY Jets - Fant, McGovern, Van Roten, Lewis, Perriman, Becton, Mims (lost Anderson, Shell)

Washington - Scherff, Thomas, Gibson (lost Williams, Flowers)

 

No one else has made as many moves as we have. What we probably lacked was a splash signing like Hopkins, Diggs or Conklin to excite the fan-base, but we had too many other roster holes to fill.

In terms of helping Sam in 2020, we're putting a lot of faith in Fant and Perriman to produce. Those two moves, along with the ability of our two rookies to settle, will likely go some way to answering the initial question. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

So, it’s your position that JD signed all fo the best offensive players available?

My position has been consistent:  Douglas made the proper decision with adding talent this offseason:  Rather than splurge on 1-2 unworthy, big name guys, he spread the money out.  I admit, I wasn't thrilled with the Fant signing and still am not, but the rest were pretty much the perfect kinds of B and C level FA's to acquire.

 

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Look, he let at let at least a Tackle and Guard that would have been major upgrades go - to sign other team’s back ups.

Again, what OL are you talking about, Glasgow?  You didn't even know who that was until about February 2020.

 

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

He let Robby go to sign another teams back up...

Robby Anderson is barely a starting-caliber WR himself.  He's a WR2 or 3 on all rosters.  Perriman is a WR3/4 on all rosters.  You disagree.  Oh well.

 

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I’m not saying he didn’t better the offense, he did.  It’s def. better - but it wasn’t enough, it was less than I expected and the fact that he did more for the defense is really what concerns me about him as a GM.  

It’s clear the offense was the problem yet he continued to put more resources into the defense than the offense.  Just because he’s done betters than his predecessors doesn’t means he’s done enough. 

The resources went where the market talent was.  Next offseason I expect the FA market to be much more robust.  If he fails to go after the guys I'm looking at, THEN I'll get the pitchfork out right alongside you.  

 

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You’re welcome to keep your head in the sand. I did for too long and I won’t any more.

You act as if Douglas has been here for years and you've had enough.  He's had one offseason to begin the process of cleaning up Macc/Idzik's mess.  I'm cool with being optimistic until he provides a legitimate reason not to think he's an adult in the room and strong decision maker.  At every turn his moves have had strong logic behind them, and I love what he did in the draft.  For now, that's good enough. 

Next offseason I might feel differently.  We'll see.  But my head isn't "in the sand" simple because I disagree with you and think he's done a fine job so far.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

No one else has made as many moves as we have. What we probably lacked was a splash signing like Hopkins, Diggs or Conklin to excite the fan-base, but we had too many other roster holes to fill.

2 of those 3 were not free agents and would have required surrending critical draft capital.  No thanks.  JD needed every single one of those picks in his 1st draft.

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

You act as if Douglas has been here for years and you've had enough.  He's had one offseason to begin the process of cleaning up Macc/Idzik's mess.  I'm cool with being optimistic until he provides a legitimate reason not to think he's an adult in the room and strong decision maker.  At every turn his moves have had strong logic behind them, and I love what he did in the draft.  For now, that's good enough. 

 

It’s not really about Douglas but more about the current state of the offense. There’s an awful lot of “hope” here and that’s what worries me. 
 

I hope Fant figures it out in his 5th year

i hope GVR can play at the starter level he was in 2018 and not the journeyman he was the rest of his career. with stints in the CFL and on practices squads

I hope Perriman was just buried on a super talented depth chart and won’t give us half the production of Robby. 

I hope Herndon can stay healthy. 

I hope Bell somehow regains his speed. 

I hope Becton can learn to the pass block

i’ve learned as a fan of this team that when there are so many “Hopes” not to expect many to happen. 

[slats]

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I’m not saying he didn’t better the offense, he did.  It’s def. better - but it wasn’t enough, it was less than I expected and the fact that he did more for the defense is really what concerns me about him as a GM.  

Are you saying he did more for the defense than the offense this off season? 

How do you justify that statement? 

[FidelioJet]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

Are you saying he did more for the defense than the offense this off season? 

How do you justify that statement? 

I was referencing FA...

and yes, overall I believe the offense wasn’t improved, in fact might have been downgraded.  Fant is a downgrade to Beachum and Shell - GVC is a JAG (no better or worse than what we had)  Perrimen is a major downgrade to Robby - McGovern was def an upgrade. 

Now, the draft is another story though.

[Jets723]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I was referencing FA...

and yes, overall I believe the offense wasn’t improved, in fact might have been downgraded.  Fant is a downgrade to Beachum and Shell - GVC is a JAG (no better or worse than what we had)  Perrimen is a major downgrade to Robby - McGovern was def an upgrade. 

Now, the draft is another story though.

You can’t improve every thing in one offseason.  He redid the whole offensive line pretty much.  I’d say he focused on offense more.  Just because he didn’t dish out huge contracts doesn’t mean he didn’t make upgrades 

[slats]

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

So, it’s your position that JD signed all fo the best offensive players available?

Look, he let at let at least a Tackle and Guard that would have been major upgrades go - to sign other team’s back ups.

He let Robby go to sign another teams back up...

I’m not saying he didn’t better the offense, he did.  It’s def. better - but it wasn’t enough, it was less than I expected and the fact that he did more for the defense is really what concerns me about him as a GM.  

It’s clear the offense was the problem yet he continued to put more resources into the defense than the offense.  Just because he’s done betters than his predecessors doesn’t means he’s done enough. 

You’re welcome to keep your head in the sand. I did for too long and I won’t any more.

 

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I was referencing FA...

and yes, overall I believe the offense wasn’t improved, in fact might have been downgraded.  Fant is a downgrade to Beachum and Shell - GVC is a JAG (no better or worse than what we had)  Perrimen is a major downgrade to Robby - McGovern was def an upgrade. 

Now, the draft is another story though.

Why don't we talk again when you decide what your opinion on the matter actually is, okay?