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Did Jets Overpay for Free Agent Lineman?


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10 minutes ago, slats said:

No you weren't. 

People feel pretty good about JD right now and rightly so, but no one's saying he's infallible. 

And I still don't see what your brilliant OL solutions would've been last year. Just a lot of complaints. 

First off, I don’t think JD has done a bad job - in fact I think he’s been mostly good.  But he’s clearly made some mistakes - simply pointing out moves with which I disagree.  

Seems so hard for people to think he could be wrong with his signings or draft picks.

Additionally, I don’t blame last years OL on him - the talent was bad to begin with and  injuries ravaged it.  But just because it was bad doesn’t make the Khalil move a good one.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It’s very sad when your best/only argument, on an internet message board, is to be the spelling police.  

Honestly, I feel bad for you.   

I'm only pointing out that you don't know anything about Becton, not even how to spell his name, yet you love to criticize his game. 

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8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

First off, I don’t think JD has done a bad job - in fact I think he’s been mostly good.  But he’s clearly made some mistakes - simply pointing out moves with which I disagree.  

Seems so hard for people to think he could be wrong with his signings or draft picks.

Additionally, I don’t blame last years OL on him - the talent was bad to begin with and  injuries ravaged it.  But just because it was bad doesn’t make the Khalil move a good one.

Again, I'm not seeing what you would've done better this year, or last year even with the benefit of hindsight. Just complaints. Oh, after seeing the results you wouldn't've signed Kalil (why do you add extra H's to our OL's names? lol), well, neither would I. I can't fault him for making a desperation move last year, though. With or without Kalil, the OL was terrible. 

Please, tell me what your OL plan would've been for this year. 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

First off, I don’t think JD has done a bad job - in fact I think he’s been mostly good.  But he’s clearly made some mistakes - simply pointing out moves with which I disagree.  

Seems so hard for people to think he could be wrong with his signings or draft picks.

Additionally, I don’t blame last years OL on him - the talent was bad to begin with and  injuries ravaged it.  But just because it was bad doesn’t make the Khalil move a good one.

I mean every signing he makes you dislike or say it’s a “rookie mistake”.  At least own up to it.  

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'll be very surprised (barring injury) if Becton isn't starting at LT day one. He's definitely a better LT than Fant today.

That's fine. I agree that Becton is good enough to start at LT.  I'm excited to see him there. 

But from what I've read from JD, and from Fant himself, LT was why he signed here.

 

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4 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

That's fine. I agree that Becton is good enough to start at LT.  I'm excited to see him there. 

But from what I've read from JD, and from Fant himself, LT was why he signed here.

 

The best player should be starting at LT. I highly doubt JD is making any sort of promises about starting spots with second and third tier free agents.

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5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The best player should be starting at LT. I highly doubt JD is making any sort of promises about starting spots with second and third tier free agents.

I think they should try to put together the best overall OL. I like the idea of Becton at RT this year because I think he'd be fantastic there, and I think Fant is a better fit at LT than right. That gives Becton a chance to learn the NFL in a starting role, but without the responsibility of protecting Darnold's blind side. I really love the idea of him being a ruthless mauler in the running game while he learns pass protection on the job. 

If Fant is any good, that's the way I'd go. I also don't mind the idea of Peters if he's willing to play for the Jets. 

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

I think they should try to put together the best overall OL. I like the idea of Becton at RT this year because I think he'd be fantastic there, and I think Fant is a better fit at LT than right. That gives Becton a chance to learn the NFL in a starting role, but without the responsibility of protecting Darnold's blind side. I really love the idea of him being a ruthless mauler in the running game while he learns pass protection on the job. 

If Fant is any good, that's the way I'd go. I also don't mind the idea of Peters if he's willing to play for the Jets. 

after watching some video of Fant at LT I'm not really comfortable w/him protecting Darnolds blind side. I think it's asking for trouble. 

Becton is very good in pass protection.

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12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The best player should be starting at LT. I highly doubt JD is making any sort of promises about starting spots with second and third tier free agents.

Yes, but it's not unprecedented for hight drafted LT to start their careers at less demanding positions. Jonathan Ogden I'm sure was the best LT on the Ravens roster in '96, yet he played his entire rookie year at Guard. 

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32 minutes ago, Claymation said:


Priest Holmes, Terry Baradshaw, Wes Welker and James Harrison to name a few.

All of those guys were bad - then had 4 good games at the end of their 4th season and then became good?

Bottom line it’s incredibly rare for this to happen.  You can take those 4 guys over a span of 50 years (as you listed) - against every other player that’s played 4 years and then never became good.

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4 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

Yes, but it's not unprecedented for hight drafted LT to start their careers at less demanding positions. Jonathan Ogden I'm sure was the best LT on the Ravens roster in '96, yet he played his entire rookie year at Guard. 

Of course it's not but the objective is to protect the QB's blind side and Becton is our best option. I don't know who played LT for the Ravens in '96 but it was most likely someone better than Fant. Just watch some video of Fant at LT. It's not what we want. 

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overpaid?  and this is going to be fant's sin?  what did beachum get?  around 10 million?  and if fant is overpaid, by how much?  the average tackle is about 2.8 m with left tackles above 3 million.  but that includes guys like shell and edoga and all of the back ups.  we'll see what happens.  it sounds like fant has the right type of ability for the blocking scheme they want to run.

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17 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

after watching some video of Fant at LT I'm not really comfortable w/him protecting Darnolds blind side. I think it's asking for trouble. 

Becton is very good in pass protection.

The big problem is that simply isn’t true.  Ranked 45th in college doesn’t bode well for taking on NFL pass rushers.

 

Pro Football Focus: Becton’s production isn’t great. He struggled flipping sides at Louisville in 2018 and didn’t’ fare much better in true pass-set situations in 2019. He was largely protected by the Cardinals’ play-action and screen-heavy offense and allowed eight total pressures across his 73 true pass sets this past season. His 79.2 PFF pass-blocking grade in 2019 ranked 45th among FBS offensive tackles with 250 or more pass-blocking snaps on the year.

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Did we overpay for Fant? Probably.  But we needed a LT, there were not a lot of options in FA, so we did what we had to.   If it doesn't work out, he can be cut after 1 season with little cap impact. 

Just happy that we were able to add Becton to the mix in the draft so there will be some competition in camp.

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21 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The big problem is that simply isn’t true.  Ranked 45th in college doesn’t bode well for taking on NFL pass rushers.

 

Pro Football Focus: Becton’s production isn’t great. He struggled flipping sides at Louisville in 2018 and didn’t’ fare much better in true pass-set situations in 2019. He was largely protected by the Cardinals’ play-action and screen-heavy offense and allowed eight total pressures across his 73 true pass sets this past season. His 79.2 PFF pass-blocking grade in 2019 ranked 45th among FBS offensive tackles with 250 or more pass-blocking snaps on the year.

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We've been over this. You purposely take the opinion from an article that fits the narrative you like and ignore the positive takes from the same article. We know it's from the same article because it's the same fonts.

https://www.nj.com/jets/2020/04/nfl-draft-2020-scouting-reports-on-jets-top-pick-louisvilles-mekhi-becton-can-he-realize-his-significant-potential.html

 NFL.com: Enormous frame complemented by surprisingly nimble feet and functional athleticism to handle either tackle spot. Becton’s combination of movement and force should allow him to fit easily into all running schemes, but he needs to play with better patience in order to control and redirect all that mass into centered blocks in both run and pass. His technique and set-up are better than expected in pass pro, while his size and length allow him to recover and redirect both inside and outside rushes. With all really big prospects, weight and quickness will be concerns, but Becton’s areas of concern are correctable or manageable if he’s disciplined enough to prioritize them. He has the potential to be a good starter on either side, but the weight creates an obvious low-floor scenario.

 Walter Football: In pass protection, defenders have a very difficult time getting pressures versus Becton. His sheer size makes him very difficult for edge rushers to get around, as he eats up so much space and with his length they have to take extra steps to get around him. That leads to his quarterback having more time to get the ball out. On top of his overwhelming size and length, Becton is freakishly quick and athletic on the edge. He has excellent lateral quickness and agility for such a massive blocker. With his ability to play the typewriter with his feet and get depth in his drop, Becton is very adept at neutralizing speed rushers. Becton’s size and weight also shuts down bull rushes, as defenders struggle to get backward movement against him.

Aside from that, you can just watch him play for yourself and see he's very good in pass protection. How many sacks did Becton allow in his entire college career? He allowed ONE sack in 2019.  Also, Fant at LT

Now that was his rookie year and it was impressive that he could transition to start at LT in the NFL, but he's a backup quality LT in the NFL. He's not the guy you want defending the QB's blind side. He just isn't. He has great athleticism - if he was able to refine his technique to the point where he were an NFL quality LT why would Seattle let him walk? He's not the guy.

 

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I guess I am not as down on Fant as many here are. I think he can be a decent to good LT and that is a big upgrade for us. People are ignoring the fact that Seattle sort of kept Fant as a TE/OT tweener. And he never really developed chemistry on the lineWith the Jets he will be dedicated to OT and you might see him gain 20 lbs or so for the full time role. The SF game shows he can be very very good, it comes down to coaching and whether Fant can realize his potential. If he does it will be great for the Jets

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57 minutes ago, slats said:

I think they should try to put together the best overall OL. I like the idea of Becton at RT this year because I think he'd be fantastic there, and I think Fant is a better fit at LT than right. That gives Becton a chance to learn the NFL in a starting role, but without the responsibility of protecting Darnold's blind side. I really love the idea of him being a ruthless mauler in the running game while he learns pass protection on the job. 

If Fant is any good, that's the way I'd go. I also don't mind the idea of Peters if he's willing to play for the Jets. 

I'm leaning that way at this point as well.  Darnold is particularly effective on rollouts to his right.  He throws well on the move and he can scramble.  Now he was forced to do that with Shell and Edoga in front of him last year.  I have seen what Becton does to LBs who try to come up on him.  They usually get tossed off the field or down to the turf.  Sometimes twice on the same play.  Moving the pocket to the right with Becton as the anchor could be an interesting tactic and could yield some significant dividends.  

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I'm actually going to be pretty disappointed if we don't see Fant catch a few passes this season.  Freakishly athletic and Seattle had him run a few routes during the season.  Didn't look half bad doing it.

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Hard to say at this point. It certainly raises eyebrows the money we gave to some players but at least they're essentially 1 year deals if need be.

 

Joe gets points for addressing the o line through the draft and free agency. We needed it desperately. We shall see if the moves pan out. It's good to have new bodies, but whether they pan out we shall see. He will be judged harshly on how the o line performs this year, right or wrong.

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13 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'm actually going to be pretty disappointed if we don't see Fant catch a few passes this season.  Freakishly athletic and Seattle had him run a few routes during the season.  Didn't look half bad doing it.

Wasn't he a tight end in college?  

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6 minutes ago, Lith said:

Wasn't he a tight end in college?  

Yup.  Started out as a basketball player and they convinced him to give football a shot at TE.  Seattle moved him to OT.

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17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Did you miss the kalil debacle last year?

Fant stunk in seattle, i know this by watching him when he played and the fact he got demoted on more than one occasion on a team with a suspect oline

Oh he looks the part, size and mobility but he is simply not a good player.  He will be a backup by the end of next year.

 

Did you watch the week 17 game against San Fran? He looked pretty damn good that game against arguably the best d-line in football.

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I still think that, with the exception of McGovern, JD's offseason free agents signings were of the "hold the fort" variety. I'm okay with the Fant signing, but not real optimistic that he'll be a good starter. Hopefully he will, though, and turn out to be a good signing.

I do wish JD grabbed another OL early (round 3) in the draft. Becton is the X factor, of course. If he can start and at least be decent from the get go, the line should be solid. If not, one of the two big question marks, Fant and Edoga, must step up or it could get ugly. Signing a further vet OT to a one-year deal for insurance/depth might be a good idea once the season starts to ramp up.

I think the Jets will likely be drafting OL early again next year.

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4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly correct. 

He needed to over pay if he had to to get Conklin - Sam needed to be protected.  Taking a “flyer” at LT simply shouldn’t have been an option. 

Conklin is a right tackle and signing him would have been a Mac move.  We have seen how they turned out.  We didnt take a flyer, we drafted one of the top left tackles so that should be covered.   Lets see how the team and O line does this year.  Whats your prediction?

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All of those guys were bad - then had 4 good games at the end of their 4th season and then became good?
Bottom line it’s incredibly rare for this to happen.  You can take those 4 guys over a span of 50 years (as you listed) - against every other player that’s played 4 years and then never became good.

That isn’t what you asked, you said...


This isn’t a rookie or second year guy.  He’s a fifth year player that has been nothing but a back-up and a back-up on a sh—ty line.
How often do 5th year guys that have mostly sucked their entire career become good?  I can’t recall it ever happening.  

And I presented a handful of players. Kurt Warner fits the bill also.
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