Bell as WR / Bell and Gore Personnel Groupings Together

[roscoeword]

Before the season, we're always dangerous ON PAPER, and ON THE FIELD, when the season starts, we stink.

[Chrebetfan80]

8 hours ago, Vader said:

This is great thx @Chrebetfan80

it’s exactly what I mean but I hear u on jusczyk issue . I don’t think the RBs should ever be (super rarely) lined up in any kind of traditional FB-HB formation but rather to force a defense to contract or open up. Opening up a base defense by splitting Bell out gives Gore one less LB to deal with on run, and if a DC swings a LB out to cover Bell, that’s also a favorable matchup. If the DC wants to run a nickel, bring Bell in and let him run it vs a small front 7. Or, you have Gore that can take any kind of screen/flat/fade from the slot.

Its all stuff that can work and put defenses in a bind at times, I just think with these two backs as a DC I spit on the fact of having to have an extra LB on the field. Realistically you get the same situation if you just throw an extra WR in and go 10 or 11 personnel and force the Defense to go into a nickle set that way.   This is why what the 49ers do is so hard to defend.  they come out in a very true 21 personnel, you have to respect the run game because there is a good blocking TE and a very good blocking FB in the game.  You most of the time HAVE to keep a base defense in or at minimum a big nickle if you have a big safety to put in the box, because you have to respect the run game with that personnel on the field.  Then they line up and they're empty because all their backs can line up outside and so can Kittle and all can be effective.  It creates such an issue for a DC when scheming how to play their unique 21 personnel. 

Playing the jets i just sit in a nickle against a bell and gore grouping.  At most youre getting a 1 back zone run, with one of those guys split out, which is essentially the same exact thing you do if it was just bell or just gore in the game.  The fun you can have with this is in the redzone mostly where you can have both in the backfield motion one out and still have a very good runner next to Sam or going empty in the redzone with 2 backs split out. Other than that I dont think it poses much of a challenge to defenses on how to play the personnel grouping.  At least not like it does with other teams like the 49ers who can do literally almost anything out of that grouping. 

 

[Obrien2Toon]

Still hoping Gore Is cut before the start of the season 

[slats]

2 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Its all stuff that can work and put defenses in a bind at times, I just think with these two backs as a DC I spit on the fact of having to have an extra LB on the field. Realistically you get the same situation if you just throw an extra WR in and go 10 or 11 personnel and force the Defense to go into a nickle set that way.   This is why what the 49ers do is so hard to defend.  they come out in a very true 21 personnel, you have to respect the run game because there is a good blocking TE and a very good blocking FB in the game.  You most of the time HAVE to keep a base defense in or at minimum a big nickle if you have a big safety to put in the box, because you have to respect the run game with that personnel on the field.  Then they line up and they're empty because all their backs can line up outside and so can Kittle and all can be effective.  It creates such an issue for a DC when scheming how to play their unique 21 personnel. 

Playing the jets i just sit in a nickle against a bell and gore grouping.  At most youre getting a 1 back zone run, with one of those guys split out, which is essentially the same exact thing you do if it was just bell or just gore in the game.  The fun you can have with this is in the redzone mostly where you can have both in the backfield motion one out and still have a very good runner next to Sam or going empty in the redzone with 2 backs split out. Other than that I dont think it poses much of a challenge to defenses on how to play the personnel grouping.  At least not like it does with other teams like the 49ers who can do literally almost anything out of that grouping. 

Good post. 

It's really about getting your best players on the field and utilizing them from there. I just don't think Frank Gore is the guy to shift what the Jets do on offense. I really see him as more of an insurance policy at this point than anything else, that Bell is the Bell Cow, and if he gets hurt Gore and Perine would take over as a committee. 

The Jets' base will probably be Bell, Herndon, Crowder, Perriman, and Mims. I think they're well positioned to run a 12 personnel, too, taking any one of the WRs off the field and bringing in Griffin. They could do a lot from there, including flexing Bell out. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Good post. 

It's really about getting your best players on the field and utilizing them from there. I just don't think Frank Gore is the guy to shift what the Jets do on offense. I really see him as more of an insurance policy at this point than anything else, that Bell is the Bell Cow, and if he gets hurt Gore and Perine would take over as a committee. 

The Jets' base will probably be Bell, Herndon, Crowder, Perriman, and Mims. I think they're well positioned to run a 12 personnel, too, taking any one of the WRs off the field and bringing in Griffin. They could do a lot from there, including flexing Bell out. 

Wesco is probably a bubble guy, but one of the attractions was that he could/did play a fullback/H-back role.

[Chrebetfan80]

3 hours ago, slats said:

Good post. 

It's really about getting your best players on the field and utilizing them from there. I just don't think Frank Gore is the guy to shift what the Jets do on offense. I really see him as more of an insurance policy at this point than anything else, that Bell is the Bell Cow, and if he gets hurt Gore and Perine would take over as a committee. 

The Jets' base will probably be Bell, Herndon, Crowder, Perriman, and Mims. I think they're well positioned to run a 12 personnel, too, taking any one of the WRs off the field and bringing in Griffin. They could do a lot from there, including flexing Bell out. 

Its funny how the NFL goes in cycles.  FB's and TE's were being phased out for a while, then TE's made a big comeback when gronk and hernandez were drafted by NE, plus the rise of Jimmy Graham at the time and everyone saw the flexibility athletes at those positions could bring to those teams offenses.  The ability to expand and contract formations with the same personnel.

Now we're starting to see it again with the addition of athletic pass catching FB's making a come back.  funny to think the jets at one point had a guy that would have fit perfectly in Tommy Bohanon. He wasnt quite as versatile as a Juszczyk, but he was a good receiver and a good blocker.  

[Losmeister]

14 hours ago, Vader said:

Off the top of my head buffalo too. 

which game?

[rangerous]

i don't claim to know the intricacies of nfl offenses but it seems like darnold getting mono and losing herndon didn't help things.  the oline was a problem but that was a constant the whole season.  the mono knocked out darnold for half of the year.  when he finally came back with strength he made good use of griffin, crowder, and robbie.  i know some will say the last 8 was against bad teams but darnold still posted top 10 qb rating and the team finished 6-2.  so, imo, gase does know how to construct and run an offense.  last years teams was just missing so much and then at inopportune times so they could never get enough consistency.

as for bell and gore in the backfield or split out bell, whatever works.  herndon and griffen coming back should help this too.  throw in the whippets the jets have at wr and things could get interesting.

[GreenReaper]

On 5/31/2020 at 11:05 PM, Vader said:

Back seat OCs opinions. Curious how to interpret two all-time great pass catching RBs and potential on the field together. 

How to take advantage of a defense whether it’s in base (and/or wants to stack the box) or in nickel, with the same (essentially) offensive personnel grouping that can flex Bell and Gore in and out of the backfield while maintaining 2 WR and 1 TE at least or some variation thereof.

a DC wants to come out in nickel? Flex the formation to run. Want to come out in base and put a LB or CB on Bell split out, with Gore facing a non-stacked box? I’ll take it. 

Bell’s go-tos in Pitt were the counter with TE/Wing pulling, and various zone scheme runs out of a one back set. 

But Another really interesting possibility is Bell’s capacity not just in the receiving game out of the backfield, but as a WR.

He is a matchup problem for LBs and Safeties and a challenge even for CBs — he can run WR routes and has blueberry muffin hands. At 6’1” 225, he’s bigger than most corners.

Bell on the field with Frank Gore at the same time could be interesting — with both as options in either the run or pass game or screen game, and shifting to the defense’s weakness. Even though Gore hasn’t been getting the 30-50 receptions per year that he used to, he has almost 4000 yards receiving in his career.

Creative offensive scheming could create real matchup problems for defenses and potentially havoc for opposing LBs and defensive coordinators who will have a hard time adjusting with personnel groupings and responsibilities.

It could be something that there’s no film to study for.

Think of lining Gore in the slot, and Bell in the backfield, or Bell out wide, and Gore in the backfield, and then running a play or shifting to something else. Playaction could be sick here...

for example:

mims-JC-T-G-C-G-T gore —perriman
———————-QB——————————

—————-——Bell—————————

 

Bell-JC-T-G-C-G-T Herndon-mims
———————-QB——————————

—————-——Gore—————————
 

mims—JC-T-G-C-G-T Herndon/block TE
——————-QB——————————

—————Bell—Gore————————

 

mims-Gore-T-G-C-G-T JC perriman 
———————-QB——————————

—————-——Bell—————————

 

mims-bell-T-G-C-G-T JC perriman 
———————-QB——————————

—————-——Gore—————————

 

————JC-T-G-C-G-T perriman -mims 
————Gore—-QB————————-

—————-——Bell—————————

thoughts?

I can see Perine in these formations too.

Don't know how many touches he gets at the very start of the season.  But eventually he should get significant playing time.  Would probably work better with Gore.   His explosiveness to the hole is ideal for Gase's zone blocking schemes.  And Gore had some success with Gase's offense in Miami.  Perine also has good receiving skills...can release downfield and was a solid blocker in college.  

Among the three backs...Perine has the freshest legs...and is the quickest and more explosive too.  As a 3rd round pick...expect him playing a lot this year.