SAR I Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 56 minutes ago, GaryM said: He went to those AFC championship games his first two years. He won with who I believe were Mangini's players. When he started to make the decisions on player personnel, he went downhill, knocking Tannenbaum right off the mountain. He should have been gone at that time also. His last few years he was nothing but a party joke. Rex Ryan was no dummy. He set himself up to be a media and fan favorite. Then he spent 100% of his time and resources building up the facade that he was a great defensive mind. When things started going south he scapegoated his quarterback and back stabbed his GM. All so he could get his second NFL job. Which he did. And he played that into an ESPN contract. He's Todd Bowles with $30 million more dollars in the bank. SAR I 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, SAR I said: Rex Ryan was no dummy. He set himself up to be a media and fan favorite. Then he spent 100% of his time and resources building up the facade that he was a great defensive mind. When things started going south he scapegoated his quarterback and back stabbed his GM. All so he could get his second NFL job. Which he did. And he played that into an ESPN contract. He's Todd Bowles with $30 million more dollars in the bank. SAR I Yeah. He's a blowhard. Not much of a difference really. An overpaid, backstabbing, incompetent blowhard. But he's worth 30 million. Which I guess means something to some people. Kylie Jenner is desperate to prove shes's worth a billion dollars. Probably means a lot to those same people in the Google "net worth" search criteria for jaded celebrities. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JohnnyLV Posted June 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2020 One thing I come back to us a positive for Gase is that we were very good at scripted plays. Hopefully Gase can figure out how to extend that to the regular play calling. He was more conservative than Bowles on 2nd down which killed many drives. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 3 hours ago, GaryM said: He went to those AFC championship games his first two years. He won with who I believe were Mangini's players. When he started to make the decisions on player personnel, he went downhill, knocking Tannenbaum right off the mountain. He should have been gone at that time also. His last few years he was nothing but a party joke. I was completely fine when they fired him. They went way downhill. I'm just saying 2 AFC CGs is nothing to sneeze at. And winning in New England in a playoff game was remarkable! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post win4ever Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 I think there’s a case to be made for Gase, which is also why I don’t think he’s been fired. The most important aspect is that the media controls the reaction of the fans. The media dislikes him because he’s really not a quote magnet. Media loved Herm because he basically made your life easy with quotes. Mangini didn’t, the media turned on him because of it. Loved Rex Ryan. Even look at Bellichek before he got Brady, wasn’t that highly regarded even though his resume as a DC was magnificent. This is where a lot of people follow media guidelines on liking/disliking someone. Let’s look at media darling Flores in Miami. The team went backwards in Defense rankings and offensive rankings. It was such a dire situation that they implemented a full blown rebuild. When Rosen got traded there, it was basically “Yeah well he went to a terrible team” idea thrown around. Why doesn’t Gase get credit for being somewhat competitive with so called terrible team? Gase got killed for trading Landry, but he’s being paid like a No. 1 WR, which just wasn’t efficient. They realized this and traded for OBJ because Landry is a complimentary receiver, not a No. 1. Take attention away from him, and he’s very productive, which is the definition of a No. 2.Second, he dealt with Darnold having mono and that takes awhile to recover to normal shape, let alone good QB level.Everyone says our roster is full of holes, so what exactly is a coach supposed to do? One of highest injury rates as well. Any offense needs an OL and weapons. We had quite possibly the worst line out there. With an injured QB in the first year of a system. Throwing to Crowder, and Robby Anderson, who was inconsistent. Starting TE? Out for the year. Enunwa? Out. Gase has his issues, no doubt. His play calling at times is abysmal, but I wouldn’t judge him off last year. The Jets over/under was 7.5 last year. They got 7, with Darnold injured, Enunwa injured, Herndon lost, OL in shambles, Johnson useless, Moseley and Williamson injures, Roberts useless, a below average kicker after the first one directly cost us a game. Aside from Darnold punching Bell in the face, pretty much everything that could go wrong, did.And finally, remember how he was the villain for getting Mac fired? How he was pulling the strings for Douglas? Where’s the hate now? Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 3 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, win4ever said: I think there’s a case to be made for Gase, which is also why I don’t think he’s been fired. The most important aspect is that the media controls the reaction of the fans. The media dislikes him because he’s really not a quote magnet. Media loved Herm because he basically made your life easy with quotes. Mangini didn’t, the media turned on him because of it. Loved Rex Ryan. Even look at Bellichek before he got Brady, wasn’t that highly regarded even though his resume as a DC was magnificent. This is where a lot of people follow media guidelines on liking/disliking someone. Let’s look at media darling Flores in Miami. The team went backwards in Defense rankings and offensive rankings. It was such a dire situation that they implemented a full blown rebuild. When Rosen got traded there, it was basically “Yeah well he went to a terrible team” idea thrown around. Why doesn’t Gase get credit for being somewhat competitive with so called terrible team? Gase got killed for trading Landry, but he’s being paid like a No. 1 WR, which just wasn’t efficient. They realized this and traded for OBJ because Landry is a complimentary receiver, not a No. 1. Take attention away from him, and he’s very productive, which is the definition of a No. 2. Second, he dealt with Darnold having mono and that takes awhile to recover to normal shape, let alone good QB level. Everyone says our roster is full of holes, so what exactly is a coach supposed to do? One of highest injury rates as well. Any offense needs an OL and weapons. We had quite possibly the worst line out there. With an injured QB in the first year of a system. Throwing to Crowder, and Robby Anderson, who was inconsistent. Starting TE? Out for the year. Enunwa? Out. Gase has his issues, no doubt. His play calling at times is abysmal, but I wouldn’t judge him off last year. The Jets over/under was 7.5 last year. They got 7, with Darnold injured, Enunwa injured, Herndon lost, OL in shambles, Johnson useless, Moseley and Williamson injures, Roberts useless, a below average kicker after the first one directly cost us a game. Aside from Darnold punching Bell in the face, pretty much everything that could go wrong, did. And finally, remember how he was the villain for getting Mac fired? How he was pulling the strings for Douglas? Where’s the hate now? Post. Of. The. Year. SAR I 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, win4ever said: I think there’s a case to be made for Gase, which is also why I don’t think he’s been fired. The most important aspect is that the media controls the reaction of the fans. The media dislikes him because he’s really not a quote magnet. Media loved Herm because he basically made your life easy with quotes. Mangini didn’t, the media turned on him because of it. Loved Rex Ryan. Even look at Bellichek before he got Brady, wasn’t that highly regarded even though his resume as a DC was magnificent. This is where a lot of people follow media guidelines on liking/disliking someone. Let’s look at media darling Flores in Miami. The team went backwards in Defense rankings and offensive rankings. It was such a dire situation that they implemented a full blown rebuild. When Rosen got traded there, it was basically “Yeah well he went to a terrible team” idea thrown around. Why doesn’t Gase get credit for being somewhat competitive with so called terrible team? Gase got killed for trading Landry, but he’s being paid like a No. 1 WR, which just wasn’t efficient. They realized this and traded for OBJ because Landry is a complimentary receiver, not a No. 1. Take attention away from him, and he’s very productive, which is the definition of a No. 2. Second, he dealt with Darnold having mono and that takes awhile to recover to normal shape, let alone good QB level. Everyone says our roster is full of holes, so what exactly is a coach supposed to do? One of highest injury rates as well. Any offense needs an OL and weapons. We had quite possibly the worst line out there. With an injured QB in the first year of a system. Throwing to Crowder, and Robby Anderson, who was inconsistent. Starting TE? Out for the year. Enunwa? Out. Gase has his issues, no doubt. His play calling at times is abysmal, but I wouldn’t judge him off last year. The Jets over/under was 7.5 last year. They got 7, with Darnold injured, Enunwa injured, Herndon lost, OL in shambles, Johnson useless, Moseley and Williamson injures, Roberts useless, a below average kicker after the first one directly cost us a game. Aside from Darnold punching Bell in the face, pretty much everything that could go wrong, did. And finally, remember how he was the villain for getting Mac fired? How he was pulling the strings for Douglas? Where’s the hate now? Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Excellent right up. I dont think the super majority of Jets fans have totally made up their minds about Gase yet. Despite all the "sell sell sell!" on Gase and the media coming up with whatever they can... I think everybody is going to wait for the first 8 games. Keeping a jaded eye open and then based on that... decide to abandon ship. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the outcome people are betting on though. But Douglas being so competent at managing the draft... Well. it's a good thing people give Gase the credit for helping bringing him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 worst case scenario I'm afraid, unless the whole team completely implodes, Gase has at least 2 more years left. JD starting his regime is the only mitigating factor that might allow the 2nd year and done scenario to play out. My recollection is that almost always an HC gets a minimum of 3 seasons ... one of those " it reflects very badly on the organization if this is not the case" type things ... someone please correct me if i'm wrong on this --- I'll root for best case scenario ... that the man can turn it all around ... and the 2 or 3 year minimum tenure will be a non-issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post win4ever Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 hours ago, SAR I said: Post. Of. The. Year. SAR I Thanks. 4 hours ago, pdxgreen said: Excellent right up. I dont think the super majority of Jets fans have totally made up their minds about Gase yet. Despite all the "sell sell sell!" on Gase and the media coming up with whatever they can... I think everybody is going to wait for the first 8 games. Keeping a jaded eye open and then based on that... decide to abandon ship. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the outcome people are betting on though. But Douglas being so competent at managing the draft... Well. it's a good thing people give Gase the credit for helping bringing him in. I don't think Gase is the best coach out there (I wanted Kingsbury even before he was fired from Tech) but it sucks to see people torn down because of their inability to get along with the media. It's like everything he does has to be painted in a negative light, and if it turns positive, it becomes silent. At least to my understanding, Gase's offense needs speed on the outside to operate. They went and got Emannuel Sanders and Cody Latimer when Gase was the OC in Denver. In Miami, he had Parker/Stills/Landry, and then added Albert Wilson (4.43) instead of Landry, and I think Grant got involved as well. He needs speed on the outside, and to be successful, throw the ball deep with accuracy. I'm not sure if the Deep Ball Project is used widely, but I've found it useful. 2014: https://brickwallblitz.com/2015/04/29/the-best-deep-ball-quarterback-of-2014-part-23/ Peyton Manning, one of the best in the game at deep ball passing. His arm strength wasn't what it was before, but he excelled at the deep pass because they had guys on the outside that could win one on one match ups with speed. Ryan Tannehill: Mediocre Jay Cutler: Abysmal 2015: https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/the-best-deep-ball-quarterback-of-2015-part-13/ Manning, takes a nose dive in deep ball accuracy, although that's mostly because of injury. His arm just wasn't there anymore. Although, it's worth noting that he looked much better on deep passes with Gase. Ryan Tannehill: Improves from Mediocre to Decent. Jay Cutler: Improves from abysmal to mediocre. 2016: https://brickwallblitz.com/2017/03/26/the-2016-17-deep-ball-project-part-33/ Ryan Tannehill: From decent to stud under Gase. Jay Cutler: Didn't qualify. I discount 2017 because Tannehill was hurt, and Cutler was basically coming off the couch. 2018: https://brickwallblitz.com/2019/02/22/the-2018-19-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ Ryan Tannehill: He takes a massive decline, partially because he can't move around as freely, and their OL sucks. Sam Darnold: Ranked 32nd 2019: https://brickwallblitz.com/2020/02/21/the-2019-20-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ Tannehill: Ranked 28th Darnold: Ranked 26th. I think it's important to note that Gase's offense works much better (as does any offense) when the deep ball is working, which requires both an accurate QB, plus speed options that can go down the field. If we look at the roster from last year, this is who we have: Robby Anderson (speedster, checks off the box) Jamison Crowder (4.56) more of a slot/middle of the field guy Quincy Enunwa: Literally caught one pass for negative 4 yards. Demarius Thomas: Basically let go by the Patriots because he wasn't going to crack their receiver room, which sucked. The TE burners in Wesco, Griffen, Brown. Braxton Berrios and Vyncint Smith off the scrap heap. If you are a defense, other than shading a safety towards Anderson, how are you not just stacking the box? You can get pressure with 4 because the OL sucks, so anything intermediate is gone. How do you call a game plan when the defense has an inherent advantage? ------ People crap on him for trading Jay Ajayi, who is out of the league now. Who did he replace Ajayi with? Kenyon Drake. People crap on him for not utilizing Drake, because he was split with Gore. So which one is it? Did he see it correctly in getting rid of Ajai for a pick so Drake has more of a shot, or did he limit Drake? Furthermore, Drake produced at a 4.5 Y/C, while Gore was at 4.6 Y/C splitting duties. Overall, the Dolphins finished tied for 7th with 4.7 Y/C in 2018, while the Cardinals finished 2nd with 5.0 Y/C last year. Here's the kicker, Drake was on the team last year for the Dolphins. He averaged 3.7 Y/C with mastermind Flores, then immediately 5.2 with the Cardinals. So why isn't Flores blamed for not utilizing Drake? The crux of running backs is that, they need an OL to create holes for them. Arizona was dead last in 2018 because they suffered injury after injury. They stayed healthy last year and it showed, which is a sentiment shared by a ton of folks. The whole "don't pay for RBs" idea is widely accepted as we see their salaries nosedive. Yet, Gase is made the villain for not wanting Bell? It's a waste of money if the OL can't open up holes, and we saw that last year. Instead, we get stories about how we didn't scheme Bell open, What scheme is going to work when the defensive player is a foot away from the hand off? Again, I don't want to come off as a Gase apologist, because he certainly has his faults. But the whole media narrative that cause fans to be misinformed drives me nuts. Remember when locker room Fitzpatrick HAD to be resigned, or the locker room would have imploded? I'm not convinced Gase is the long term answer (I actually wanted someone that has a unique offensive philosophy like Kingsbury) but the media hit job on him bothers me. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, win4ever said: Thanks. I don't think Gase is the best coach out there (I wanted Kingsbury even before he was fired from Tech) but it sucks to see people torn down because of their inability to get along with the media. It's like everything he does has to be painted in a negative light, and if it turns positive, it becomes silent. At least to my understanding, Gase's offense needs speed on the outside to operate. They went and got Emannuel Sanders and Cody Latimer when Gase was the OC in Denver. In Miami, he had Parker/Stills/Landry, and then added Albert Wilson (4.43) instead of Landry, and I think Grant got involved as well. He needs speed on the outside, and to be successful, throw the ball deep with accuracy. I'm not sure if the Deep Ball Project is used widely, but I've found it useful. 2014: https://brickwallblitz.com/2015/04/29/the-best-deep-ball-quarterback-of-2014-part-23/ Peyton Manning, one of the best in the game at deep ball passing. His arm strength wasn't what it was before, but he excelled at the deep pass because they had guys on the outside that could win one on one match ups with speed. Ryan Tannehill: Mediocre Jay Cutler: Abysmal 2015: https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/the-best-deep-ball-quarterback-of-2015-part-13/ Manning, takes a nose dive in deep ball accuracy, although that's mostly because of injury. His arm just wasn't there anymore. Although, it's worth noting that he looked much better on deep passes with Gase. Ryan Tannehill: Improves from Mediocre to Decent. Jay Cutler: Improves from abysmal to mediocre. 2016: https://brickwallblitz.com/2017/03/26/the-2016-17-deep-ball-project-part-33/ Ryan Tannehill: From decent to stud under Gase. Jay Cutler: Didn't qualify. I discount 2017 because Tannehill was hurt, and Cutler was basically coming off the couch. 2018: https://brickwallblitz.com/2019/02/22/the-2018-19-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ Ryan Tannehill: He takes a massive decline, partially because he can't move around as freely, and their OL sucks. Sam Darnold: Ranked 32nd 2019: https://brickwallblitz.com/2020/02/21/the-2019-20-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ Tannehill: Ranked 28th Darnold: Ranked 26th. I think it's important to note that Gase's offense works much better (as does any offense) when the deep ball is working, which requires both an accurate QB, plus speed options that can go down the field. If we look at the roster from last year, this is who we have: Robby Anderson (speedster, checks off the box) Jamison Crowder (4.56) more of a slot/middle of the field guy Quincy Enunwa: Literally caught one pass for negative 4 yards. Demarius Thomas: Basically let go by the Patriots because he wasn't going to crack their receiver room, which sucked. The TE burners in Wesco, Griffen, Brown. Braxton Berrios and Vyncint Smith off the scrap heap. If you are a defense, other than shading a safety towards Anderson, how are you not just stacking the box? You can get pressure with 4 because the OL sucks, so anything intermediate is gone. How do you call a game plan when the defense has an inherent advantage? ------ People crap on him for trading Jay Ajayi, who is out of the league now. Who did he replace Ajayi with? Kenyon Drake. People crap on him for not utilizing Drake, because he was split with Gore. So which one is it? Did he see it correctly in getting rid of Ajai for a pick so Drake has more of a shot, or did he limit Drake? Furthermore, Drake produced at a 4.5 Y/C, while Gore was at 4.6 Y/C splitting duties. Overall, the Dolphins finished tied for 7th with 4.7 Y/C in 2018, while the Cardinals finished 2nd with 5.0 Y/C last year. Here's the kicker, Drake was on the team last year for the Dolphins. He averaged 3.7 Y/C with mastermind Flores, then immediately 5.2 with the Cardinals. So why isn't Flores blamed for not utilizing Drake? The crux of running backs is that, they need an OL to create holes for them. Arizona was dead last in 2018 because they suffered injury after injury. They stayed healthy last year and it showed, which is a sentiment shared by a ton of folks. The whole "don't pay for RBs" idea is widely accepted as we see their salaries nosedive. Yet, Gase is made the villain for not wanting Bell? It's a waste of money if the OL can't open up holes, and we saw that last year. Instead, we get stories about how we didn't scheme Bell open, What scheme is going to work when the defensive player is a foot away from the hand off? Again, I don't want to come off as a Gase apologist, because he certainly has his faults. But the whole media narrative that cause fans to be misinformed drives me nuts. Remember when locker room Fitzpatrick HAD to be resigned, or the locker room would have imploded? I'm not convinced Gase is the long term answer (I actually wanted someone that has a unique offensive philosophy like Kingsbury) but the media hit job on him bothers me. Yeah. Great points all. That's why I think so much of Gase's future is tied to the offense and Darnold. If he gets it going in with recent showings in the first half of the season. I think he's given himself some breathing room. Since that is so much of what the what the media is pouncing on "the Dolphins under Adam Gase didn't rank higher than 29th in yadadadadada." The Jets consistently score points and stay in games. Those daily twitter broadsides don't occur so often. Even if we do go 8-8 and we miss the playoffs. I think Chris Johnson probably buys that too. Barring a stretch of games where we get outclassed and get a monstrous loss like the one against NE last year. As for the team press room and their relationship with Gase. I have no idea. Could be a hold over from his time in Miami. Just his manner or lack of quotable stuff that pisses writers pissed off now. Who knows? For a guy who takes so much bad press, Gase seems remarkably unfazed by it. I will give him that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sperm Edwards Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 11:41 AM, Gastineau Lives said: Adam Gase went 6-2 down the stretch, so there's that. One of those was against Buffalo’s scout team (particularly their LBs and secondary, which wasn’t exactly exploited by our starters). This one looks like a sure loss vs. Buffalo’s starting 11 on each side playing more than one possession, let alone coaching like the game counted. The rest were against creampuffs and paper tigers who hadn’t beaten a winning team themselves. Think 16 points is enough if Pittsburgh has Roethlisberger in there instead of Hodges forfeiting their first few possessions? There’s also little "case" to be made that the Jets would have won any - let alone 2 or 3 - of Darnold’s mono games, for as often as that excuse is trotted out. Gase’s best skill seems to be as a QBC, and after that in scripting plays before thinking on the fly. In his favor, that would at least suggest he’s smart; that he can learn and get better at other things with experience. He either will or he won’t improve enough one and two promotion clicks above that as OC+HC. But there were plenty of favorable, if not glowing, former-player reviews of Paul Hackett (Joe Montana, even before Pennington) and Brian Schottenheimer (Drew Brees) as well. Also I’ll allow that some can do more with more and others more with less. When the roster’s up to par, which it wasn’t last year, the former type is ultimately what’s needed to stick with and beat the best teams (and not merely get a meh roster past the likes of the league’s 24th-32nd ranked defenses, while his DC manhandles backup and rookie QBs on the other side). So I’m hoping this is the case for Gase. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) Huge improvements coming for Gase and the Jets. I predict a top 30 offense! Edited June 4, 2020 by AFJF 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, AFJF said: Huge improvements coming for Gase and the Jets. I predict a top 30 offense! whoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Yeah. Great points all. That's why I think so much of Gase's future is tied to the offense and Darnold. If he gets it going in with recent showings in the first half of the season. I think he's given himself some breathing room. Since that is so much of what the what the media is pouncing on "the Dolphins under Adam Gase didn't rank higher than 29th in yadadadadada." The Jets consistently score points and stay in games. Those daily twitter broadsides don't occur so often. Even if we do go 8-8 and we miss the playoffs. I think Chris Johnson probably buys that too. Barring a stretch of games where we get outclassed and get a monstrous loss like the one against NE last year. As for the team press room and their relationship with Gase. I have no idea. Could be a hold over from his time in Miami. Just his manner or lack of quotable stuff that pisses writers pissed off now. Who knows? For a guy who takes so much bad press, Gase seems remarkably unfazed by it. I will give him that.Barring injury, I think the offense will improve, but it’s really all dependent on the OL coming together. If they can at least be decent, then pretty much any offense will improve. If the OL improves, then RB improves, which forces the defense to pick and choose between two deep safety or safety in the box. Last year, they could stack the box, and still not worry about anyone aside from Anderson going deep. Also, if that stacked box went into a blitz, Darnold was in trouble before he reached the top of his drop back. It is a big year for Darnold/Gase because Douglas helped to fix some glaring holes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Not a fan of Gase but Sam not having to learn a new offense this offseason is a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, win4ever said: Barring injury, I think the offense will improve, but it’s really all dependent on the OL coming together. If they can at least be decent, then pretty much any offense will improve. If the OL improves, then RB improves, which forces the defense to pick and choose between two deep safety or safety in the box. Last year, they could stack the box, and still not worry about anyone aside from Anderson going deep. Also, if that stacked box went into a blitz, Darnold was in trouble before he reached the top of his drop back. It is a big year for Darnold/Gase because Douglas helped to fix some glaring holes. Better OL, and hopefully Chris Herndon actually plays 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 20 hours ago, GaryM said: He went to those AFC championship games his first two years. He won with who I believe were Mangini's players. When he started to make the decisions on player personnel, he went downhill, knocking Tannenbaum right off the mountain. He should have been gone at that time also. His last few years he was nothing but a party joke. Idzik sure didn't help Rex when he kept all that cap space and wouldn't address the CB position which was the cornerstone on Rex's defenses. That last year was WJ setting Rex up to be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 10 hours ago, win4ever said: Thanks. I don't think Gase is the best coach out there (I wanted Kingsbury even before he was fired from Tech) but it sucks to see people torn down because of their inability to get along with the media. It's like everything he does has to be painted in a negative light, and if it turns positive, it becomes silent. At least to my understanding, Gase's offense needs speed on the outside to operate. They went and got Emannuel Sanders and Cody Latimer when Gase was the OC in Denver. In Miami, he had Parker/Stills/Landry, and then added Albert Wilson (4.43) instead of Landry, and I think Grant got involved as well. He needs speed on the outside, and to be successful, throw the ball deep with accuracy. I'm not sure if the Deep Ball Project is used widely, but I've found it useful. 2014: https://brickwallblitz.com/2015/04/29/the-best-deep-ball-quarterback-of-2014-part-23/ Peyton Manning, one of the best in the game at deep ball passing. His arm strength wasn't what it was before, but he excelled at the deep pass because they had guys on the outside that could win one on one match ups with speed. Ryan Tannehill: Mediocre Jay Cutler: Abysmal 2015: https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/the-best-deep-ball-quarterback-of-2015-part-13/ Manning, takes a nose dive in deep ball accuracy, although that's mostly because of injury. His arm just wasn't there anymore. Although, it's worth noting that he looked much better on deep passes with Gase. Ryan Tannehill: Improves from Mediocre to Decent. Jay Cutler: Improves from abysmal to mediocre. 2016: https://brickwallblitz.com/2017/03/26/the-2016-17-deep-ball-project-part-33/ Ryan Tannehill: From decent to stud under Gase. Jay Cutler: Didn't qualify. I discount 2017 because Tannehill was hurt, and Cutler was basically coming off the couch. 2018: https://brickwallblitz.com/2019/02/22/the-2018-19-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ Ryan Tannehill: He takes a massive decline, partially because he can't move around as freely, and their OL sucks. Sam Darnold: Ranked 32nd 2019: https://brickwallblitz.com/2020/02/21/the-2019-20-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ Tannehill: Ranked 28th Darnold: Ranked 26th. I think it's important to note that Gase's offense works much better (as does any offense) when the deep ball is working, which requires both an accurate QB, plus speed options that can go down the field. If we look at the roster from last year, this is who we have: Robby Anderson (speedster, checks off the box) Jamison Crowder (4.56) more of a slot/middle of the field guy Quincy Enunwa: Literally caught one pass for negative 4 yards. Demarius Thomas: Basically let go by the Patriots because he wasn't going to crack their receiver room, which sucked. The TE burners in Wesco, Griffen, Brown. Braxton Berrios and Vyncint Smith off the scrap heap. If you are a defense, other than shading a safety towards Anderson, how are you not just stacking the box? You can get pressure with 4 because the OL sucks, so anything intermediate is gone. How do you call a game plan when the defense has an inherent advantage? ------ People crap on him for trading Jay Ajayi, who is out of the league now. Who did he replace Ajayi with? Kenyon Drake. People crap on him for not utilizing Drake, because he was split with Gore. So which one is it? Did he see it correctly in getting rid of Ajai for a pick so Drake has more of a shot, or did he limit Drake? Furthermore, Drake produced at a 4.5 Y/C, while Gore was at 4.6 Y/C splitting duties. Overall, the Dolphins finished tied for 7th with 4.7 Y/C in 2018, while the Cardinals finished 2nd with 5.0 Y/C last year. Here's the kicker, Drake was on the team last year for the Dolphins. He averaged 3.7 Y/C with mastermind Flores, then immediately 5.2 with the Cardinals. So why isn't Flores blamed for not utilizing Drake? The crux of running backs is that, they need an OL to create holes for them. Arizona was dead last in 2018 because they suffered injury after injury. They stayed healthy last year and it showed, which is a sentiment shared by a ton of folks. The whole "don't pay for RBs" idea is widely accepted as we see their salaries nosedive. Yet, Gase is made the villain for not wanting Bell? It's a waste of money if the OL can't open up holes, and we saw that last year. Instead, we get stories about how we didn't scheme Bell open, What scheme is going to work when the defensive player is a foot away from the hand off? Again, I don't want to come off as a Gase apologist, because he certainly has his faults. But the whole media narrative that cause fans to be misinformed drives me nuts. Remember when locker room Fitzpatrick HAD to be resigned, or the locker room would have imploded? I'm not convinced Gase is the long term answer (I actually wanted someone that has a unique offensive philosophy like Kingsbury) but the media hit job on him bothers me. Damn. You are knocking it out of the park with the last two posts. Great job of bringing some reality to the SOJ fans and trolls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 10 hours ago, pdxgreen said: Yeah. Great points all. That's why I think so much of Gase's future is tied to the offense and Darnold. If he gets it going in with recent showings in the first half of the season. I think he's given himself some breathing room. Since that is so much of what the what the media is pouncing on "the Dolphins under Adam Gase didn't rank higher than 29th in yadadadadada." The Jets consistently score points and stay in games. Those daily twitter broadsides don't occur so often. Even if we do go 8-8 and we miss the playoffs. I think Chris Johnson probably buys that too. Barring a stretch of games where we get outclassed and get a monstrous loss like the one against NE last year. As for the team press room and their relationship with Gase. I have no idea. Could be a hold over from his time in Miami. Just his manner or lack of quotable stuff that pisses writers pissed off now. Who knows? For a guy who takes so much bad press, Gase seems remarkably unfazed by it. I will give him that. I'd much rather have a HC that concerned with the team and spends 70-80 hours a week watching film and studying opponents than a HC who wants to be liked by the vultures in the press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 scenario Adam Gase walks into your check cashing store. would you loan this guy money? if so, how much and at what interest rate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, bitonti said: scenario Adam Gase walks into your check cashing store. would you loan this guy money? if so, how much and at what interest rate? Do you have a check cashing store that you frequent? Most people have a real bank. AND we must all remember that Gase is rich AF?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Big_Slick said: Do you have a check cashing store that you frequent? Most people have a real bank. AND we must all remember that Gase is rich AF?. did I mention it's 3am and your check cashing place is also a pawn store/gold broker he looks like this in your store. look he just needs some funds his family can't know about how much do you front "itchy beard" Adam Gase, and at what Interest rate *** now consider the Jets pay him Millions of dollars a year to run the program the "case for Gase" he's really into stimulants? he doesn't require sleep? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 4:55 PM, SAR I said: Rex Ryan was no dummy. He set himself up to be a media and fan favorite. Then he spent 100% of his time and resources building up the facade that he was a great defensive mind. When things started going south he scapegoated his quarterback and back stabbed his GM. All so he could get his second NFL job. Which he did. And he played that into an ESPN contract. He's Todd Bowles with $30 million more dollars in the bank. SAR I How many bad coaches go to back-to-back AFC CGs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: How many bad coaches go to back-to-back AFC CGs? How many good ones suck for 6 straight years, get fired twice in a 3-year period, and never come close to getting a HC job again? The league figured Rex out. Once that happens, the coach needs to adjust accordingly and come up with something new. He didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: How many bad coaches go to back-to-back AFC CGs? A great head coach can do two things- excel with a very talented team and build up a very weak team. Rex Ryan was great with #1 and lousy with #2. He can do well with a great team (like any head coach could) but isn't the guy to rebuild and develop with. The crime of the 2010 team is that they weren't sustained. Lousy personnel decisions, lousy coaching of young players. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, SAR I said: A great head coach can do two things- excel with a very talented team and build up a very weak team. Rex Ryan was great with #1 and lousy with #2. He can do well with a great team (like any head coach could) but isn't the guy to rebuild and develop with. The crime of the 2010 team is that they weren't sustained. Lousy personnel decisions, lousy coaching of young players. SAR I To me, Rex Ryan was a blockbuster coach. Like the company, Blockbuster. There was a time period where his coaching style was the primary way to win, defense, good running game, and game management QB. The Patriots started off that way as well with Brady. Parcells subscribed to the theory, the dominant Bucs/Ravens defenses too. There were wrinkles in the plan, where teams combined good defenses with good offenses (49ers, Cowboys, Rams) but the main way was to make sure your defense was stout, and not turn the ball over. Same thing with the company, because it wasn't aggressive pitching to get in your living room, it was brick and mortar, come to us business plan. We know you don't have much of a choice other than making the trek to our stores, and possibly paying late fees. The issue for Rex was that the league slowly shifted away from what made his defenses great. More teams running spread concept, meant man cover wasn't as effective, unless you had absolute studs. More teams running rub concepts, mesh concepts to disrupt man cover and blitzes meant that it wasn't effective to leave guys on islands, and hope to get to the QB. We saw this numerous times in his tenure, where he'd blitz on 3rd and 12, only to get burned for 15 yards on a simple crossing route. This is where Rex didn't evolve because he didn't evolve to focus more on defense, he hunkered down on his style of hard hitting defense. In a loaded WR class when we had losers, he went for the last thing the Jets needed, a hard hitting safety. Rex was trying to recreate that "Well, you'll be sorry you went over the middle" defense, only the rules had now changed. It didn't help that the particular safety sucked at covering anyone, so tackling wasn't much of an issue. It's a clear case of the coach wanting his team to focus on the hard hitting defense that got him there, without realizing the game had changed. Throw in some terrible personnel decisions by a myriad of idiots, that completely ignored the offense, and you have our fall off. What made the '09-'10 Jets great were that they had an absolute stud of a defense, complimented by a great offensive line, running game, and game manager QB. We may not always score, but we certainly took up time. Once that offense declined, other teams weren't afraid to take chances against the defense, because the offense couldn't make them pay anyway. I think there was one game with the Steelers where they admitted that if they took away the deep game with Stephen Hill, the other guys couldn't beat them one on one. I think the utter lack of urgency towards OL and receiver would doom any team, even without making the mistakes that we did at QB. Same thing with the company, they didn't realize that the brick and mortar stores were going downhill, and home delivery (at first) and then streaming (later) would take over. They stuck to their guns because that's what they knew, bypassing numerous opportunities to take market share and join the new millennium. I think Rex was a victim of his own success, it went to his head, and he never adjusted. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 A case for Gase to be fired. Im in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Philc1 said: Not a fan of Gase but Sam not having to learn a new offense this offseason is a good thing That and the USC playbook Sam loaned Gase to score points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Rex Ryan was an awful coach for his last three years. However if was leagues better than Adam Gase. Rex actually got some layoff results and his side of the ball was up there in the stat rankings. His disdain for offense and hanging onto very bad assistant coaches were his down fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetluv58 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I just wish he was not so dour in the press conferences. It bothers me. Never says thanks at the end, just runs off. This being said he deserves his shot this year and I’m excited to see what this refurbished team can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said: just wish he was not so dour in the press conferences. It bothers me. Never says thanks at the end, just runs off. The media has been awful to him from the start. From unsubstantiated rumors to picking on him for his eye disability to fanning the flames of dumb fans trying to run him out of town after a month, the press has been brutal to Adam and I don't begrudge him his cold demeanor. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetluv58 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, SAR I said: The media has been awful to him from the start. From unsubstantiated rumors to picking on him for his eye disability to fanning the flames of dumb fans trying to run him out of town after a month, the press has been brutal to Adam and I don't begrudge him his cold demeanor. SAR I I get what your saying. I’m sure he just wants to answer a the questions and get out. And winning tends to make people lighten up. Just wish he was more emotive, including on the sideline. Not that you have to be that way to be a good coach. A few laughs and a little fire. More smelling salts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 3:25 AM, GreenReaper said: "Lets see what Gase can do this year"...my sentiments too. Don't have a dog in this fight of..."pro Gase vs anti Gase" pissing contest...of who's the smart ones that gets it right. With a crap OL...loss of Herndon...and a zombie RB in Bell. Plus...the creme de la creme...a mono QB...that lead to a 1-7 start. Yet the team held together...finishing the 2nd half season 6-2. So...I'm still curious...why Peyton Manning considered Gase...to have an impressive offensive mind. IMO, there's enough pieces JD has provided Gase this offseason...that we should be able to see what he can do. As well as Darnold too. Jets have enough team balance this year...to compete..and win...the AFCE. Looking forward to see what happens. Oh...hat 2 please? Well said dude. This is pretty much my take. I'm no Gase Fan to be clear, but I am also trying to see where there may be reasons to be hopeful. Last year was an absolute train wreck for so many reasons and we more than doubled our women total from the year before. There's something to hang our hats on if we try and see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 8:07 AM, BUM-KNEE said: Good points Beanz. Alot of us have been willing to give Gase time to create something here, it's the logical thing to do. I like hat 1 I ended up choosing number two but in fairness my son sorta took hat #1 before I had much time to do anything. lol Thanks man . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 6:42 PM, johnnysd said: One thing I come back to us a positive for Gase is that we were very good at scripted plays. Hopefully Gase can figure out how to extend that to the regular play calling. He was more conservative than Bowles on 2nd down which killed many drives. That's one that I almost added along with Gase being responsible for JD being here. but the vid was going to be too long and I chose to keep it to the character stuff. I still kinda regret it but oh well. hahaha Gase's first drives really are strong. It's a positive but it also exposes his weakness where in game adjustments are concerned which is a negative. I always think I should have done every vid differently after the fact so why should this one be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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