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Jamal comes in at #20 on PFF top players

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50 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Anyone that would take Jamal Adams over Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa is an absolute idiot in every single definition of the word.

Would you take Ed Reed over MG or NB ???

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1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

What a ridiculous example.

1st: Jamal Adams doesn't play the same position as Reed.  He also doesn't make even 1 sliver of the same impact as Reed playing the position(s) that he does play.

2nd:  Reed's career is finished, whereas all three players being discussed here are, literally, just getting started.  We're comparing young players to other young players.

Now that we've settled that, here's the best answer I can possibly give this question:

If Myles Garrett continues his trajectory and, ultimately, becomes a HoF Pass-Rusher?  No.  I would take Garrett 10 times out of 10.  Same goes for Bosa.  If they both become HoF pass rushers, you take the Pass Rusher over the Safety every single time.

Not an example.  Was just wondering if you would take perhaps the best safety ever to play over an elite quality D-lineman/Edge.  It is more a question of the added value of a remarkable player at a lesser valued position vs. a very good player at a more valued position.  

And now, time for me to put on my idiot head cap.

I'd take Jamal over Bosa under certain conditions.  

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20 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It absolutely is an example.  An example is something you use to get a point across.  You used Ed Reed vs Myles Garrett and Nick Bosa.  That's an example in every way, shape, and form.

Addressing the meat of this: Myles Garrett, compared to Jamal Adams, is, at the very least, on equal footing when discussing player caliber.  Going further than that, he might be better.  The fact that he's an EDGE player is the cherry on top.  Bosa, after his rookie year, is not far behind Jamal.  The difference between Jamal and both Garrett and Bosa is that Myles and Nick are absolute game changers at a position that is second, maybe, to QB.

Factoring all of that in, I'd trade Jamal for either one and never think twice about it.

You consider a question and example ? I was not making statement. I was asking a question.  There wasn't the hint of a statement nor support of a point attached to my question.  Not on the face of it or between the lines. But you did answer the *question*. 

Now on to another question.  Not an example.  A question.  Adams, Reed, Bosa, Garrett not included. 

Would you take an elite pass rusher over an elite SS or FS  all the time and every time regardless of the base defensive scheme ???  Money aside, are there any conditions that would prompt you to go with the elite S over the elite Edge ? 

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4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I can only speak for myself, but, honestly, no.  Unless the Safety is averaging 10-12 INTs a year (what I consider to be the equivalent to elite Pass-Rusher sack numbers/turnovers generated) and he covers like a CB, I'm taking the Pass-Rusher every single time.

Makes sense. A sack can usually arrest a drive and a QB pressure often results in at least a loss of a down and possible interception.   Elite pass rushers also often draw a double.  There is a lot of hidden value in a player that has that fear factor going into a game if he compels the opposing OC to assign two players to one.  Add to it, the league is now pass happy.  Two top keys to the win.  Pass the ball and stop the other team from doing the same.  Hence... QB, EDGE, LT, CB.  Safety is down on the strategic list circa 2020.  Even a Pro Bowler. 

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11 minutes ago, kmnj said:

jet fans hating on one of the few talented guys we have had in years-I hated the way our former scrub gm tried to build the team by focusing on our secondary with back to back picks-at the time stupid people pointed to the seahawks ignoring the rest of their roster but with that being said Adams is legit- one of the only legit guys on our roster-pay the man and move on-

Adams play alone last year was the  difference in a few of the games -with one of the worst offenses in football last year it was our defense that allowed us to win games and Adams is the star on our defense

 

 

I agree... Pay him.  But pay him money for a top SS and no more.  I really like Adams, but I cant see giving a SS more than $13mm a year even if he is the best SS in the league.  If there was no cap, I'd have no objection to giving Adams $100mm a year of WJ's cash, but you can't tie up that much money at the SS position considering economics and ultimate value...

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Incorrect.  He put up excellent stats for a Weak Side LB.  But several guys put up similar or better numbers than Jamal did last season, whether you want to call him a DB or LB.  

Jamal Adams:  61 Solo Tackles, 1 INT, 6.5 Sacks, 2 FFs, 7 PDs, 10 TFLs

vs. 

  • Jamie Collins:  58 Solo Tackles, 3 INTs, 7.0 Sacks, 3 FFs, 7 PDs, 10 TFLs
  • Darius Leonard:  71 Solo Tackles, 5 INTs, 2 FFs, 5.0 Sacks, 7 PDs, 7 TFLs
  • Logan Ryan:  73 Solo Tackles, 4 INTs, 4.5 Sacks, 4 FFs, 18 PDs, 4 TFLs
  • Demario Davis:  87 Solo Tackles, 1 INT, 4.0 Sacks, 0 FFs, 12 PDs, 11 TFLs
  • Fred Warner:  89 Solo Tackles, 1 INT, 3.0 Sacks, 3 FFs, 9 PDs, 7 TFLs
  • T.J. Watt:  35 Solo Tackles, 2 INTs, 14.5 Sacks, 8 FFs, 8 PDs, 14 TFLs
  • Cory Littleton:  78 Solo Tackles, 2 INTs, 3.5 Sacks, 2 FFs, 9 PDs, 6 TFLs
  • Jordan Hicks:  93 Solo Tackles, 3 INTs, 1.5 Sacks, 2 FFs, 6 PDs, 11 TFLs
  • Jourdan Lewis:  38 Solo Tackles, 2 INTs, 4.0 Sacks, 0 FFs, 6 PDs, 4 TFLs
  • Whitney Mercilus:  33 Solo Tackles, 2 INTs, 7.5 Sacks, 4 FFs, 2 PDs, 9 TFLs
  • Lavonte David:  82 Solo Tackles, 1 INT, 1.0 Sacks, 3 FFs, 7 PDs, 10 TFLs
  • Joe Schobert:  89 Solo Tackles, 4 INTs, 2.0 Sacks, 2 TFLs, 9 PDs, 7 TFLs

 

And before you start screaming about sack totals, keep in mind that Adams was sent on 90 blitzes last season, ranking 10th among defensive players in the NFL.  

That's not a sustainable approach either, as every time Adams blitzed, it put an extra strain on the DB's.  With the addition of Ashtyn Davis and a bunch of other DBs, I imagine we'll see Adams in more of a traditional SS role next season.  He won't come close to that 6.5 sack total in 2020.

Not sure if Adams will be relieved of "sack duty" this coming season. I'd say that blitzing a SS so often is a band-aid of sorts for a lack of rush being generated by your front four.  While, JD most decidedly improved the offensive line and also drafted what looks to be a situational pass rusher in Zuniga, there really has been no major improvement in the pass rushing ability of the front four.  GW will still be looking to novel ways to get at the QB.  Adams will probably be utilized like that again.  I guess for the 2021 draft we'll all be guessing what edge rusher the Jets will be using their first rounder on.  

Man... How long as it been since the Jets had a top edge rusher ??? Abraham ??? 

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20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

If Adams blitzes another 80-90 times this year, Offensive Coordinators will be ready for it.  And there's no Dwayne Haskins or Daniel Jones on the schedule this time around.  

Not sure if you can really guard against the blitz unless you are the Pats and you listen in on the mike LB with your electronic gear. Even if a DC has a tendency to use ILBS for A gap blitzing more than usual, or DB's or what ever, the pressure is disguised.  They got away with it a lot last year even when DC's had the film from every game. I don't even know if it is sound to scheme up a man blocking assignment on a safety.  Interesting question in itself. What specific provisions would you put into an offense to counter a roaming SS ???

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12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm far from the best person to ask this question.  My guess would be to assume Adams is blitzing all the time and opt for quick throws over the middle wherever possible.  Drag routes, bubble screens, etc. 

Adams isn't an INT threat historically, so the risk of him staying put and picking you off is minimal.  

The big difference this year will be Mosley's presence.  But that goes back to my original point that keeping Adams around the LOS all the time just makes little sense with Mosley around.  If you want to send him as a blitzer a bunch, OK I guess, but it's not going to end as well as last year.

Makes sense... And yes.  Mosley.  The defense fell apart when Mosley went down.  I think that has less to do with Mosley being an excellent player, which he is, and more like GW didn't have anyone else fully prepared to call the defensive signals on the field.  I hope Mosely is good to go now.  He's a just a bit pricey to be watching from the sideline.  

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