Jamal comes in at #20 on PFF top players

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Not an example.  Was just wondering if you would take perhaps the best safety ever to play over an elite quality D-lineman/Edge.  It is more a question of the added value of a remarkable player at a lesser valued position vs. a very good player at a more valued position.  

And now, time for me to put on my idiot head cap.

I'd take Jamal over Bosa under certain conditions.  

It absolutely is an example.  An example is something you use to get a point across.  You used Ed Reed vs Myles Garrett and Nick Bosa.  That's an example in every way, shape, and form.

Addressing the meat of this: Myles Garrett, compared to Jamal Adams, is, at the very least, on equal footing when discussing player caliber.  Going further than that, he might be better.  The fact that he's an EDGE player is the cherry on top.  Bosa, after his rookie year, is not far behind Jamal.  The difference between Jamal and both Garrett and Bosa is that Myles and Nick are absolute game changers at a position that is second, maybe, to QB.

Factoring all of that in, I'd trade Jamal for either one and never think twice about it.

[GreenReaper]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Yeah, someone should really do something about these fans. 

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Lol, yes, I'm familiar with the angle in which you view things. 

I love you too slats.

[Scoop24]

Oh great a new topic wit some refreshing takes in the comments . 

[Larz]

Maybe it’s time for the smear campaign to end?

when the argument is that you would trade him for the 25th best player it’s time to move on 

[THE BARON]

20 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It absolutely is an example.  An example is something you use to get a point across.  You used Ed Reed vs Myles Garrett and Nick Bosa.  That's an example in every way, shape, and form.

Addressing the meat of this: Myles Garrett, compared to Jamal Adams, is, at the very least, on equal footing when discussing player caliber.  Going further than that, he might be better.  The fact that he's an EDGE player is the cherry on top.  Bosa, after his rookie year, is not far behind Jamal.  The difference between Jamal and both Garrett and Bosa is that Myles and Nick are absolute game changers at a position that is second, maybe, to QB.

Factoring all of that in, I'd trade Jamal for either one and never think twice about it.

You consider a question and example ? I was not making statement. I was asking a question.  There wasn't the hint of a statement nor support of a point attached to my question.  Not on the face of it or between the lines. But you did answer the *question*. 

Now on to another question.  Not an example.  A question.  Adams, Reed, Bosa, Garrett not included. 

Would you take an elite pass rusher over an elite SS or FS  all the time and every time regardless of the base defensive scheme ???  Money aside, are there any conditions that would prompt you to go with the elite S over the elite Edge ? 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

You consider a question and example ? I was not making statement. I was asking a question.  There wasn't the hint of a statement nor support of a point attached to my question.  Not on the face of it or between the lines. But you did answer the *question*. 

Now on to another question.  Not an example.  A question.  Adams, Reed, Bosa, Garrett not included. 

Would you take an elite pass rusher over an elite SS or FS  all the time and every time regardless of the base defensive scheme ???  Money aside, are there any conditions that would prompt you to go with the elite S over the elite Edge ? 

Yes, if we already had two other elite (or at least demonstrably above-average) young edge rushers

The Jets have zero

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, THE BARON said:

You consider a question and example ? I was not making statement. I was asking a question.  There wasn't the hint of a statement nor support of a point attached to my question.  Not on the face of it or between the lines. But you did answer the *question*. 

Now on to another question.  Not an example.  A question.  Adams, Reed, Bosa, Garrett not included. 

Would you take an elite pass rusher over an elite SS or FS  all the time and every time regardless of the base defensive scheme ???  Money aside, are there any conditions that would prompt you to go with the elite S over the elite Edge ? 

I can only speak for myself, but, honestly, no.  Unless the Safety is averaging 10-12 INTs a year (what I consider to be the equivalent to elite Pass-Rusher sack numbers/turnovers generated) and he covers like a CB, I'm taking the Pass-Rusher every single time.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just out of curiosity, I looked up the list they made at the end of the 2019 season, and gee look what even PFF says about their #1 player

• George Kittle was the best player in football in 2019. That doesn't mean he was the most impactful or the most valuable, but [...]

Being #20 doesn't make him the #20 player to have. Even the guys making this list acknowledge this obvious reality that still escapes people.

Also interesting that players like TJ Watt dropped so significantly from their top-101 Feb assessment of actual 2019 production to their top-50 June prediction for 2020.

• TJ Watt dropped from #6 to #28 without explanation.
• Brandon Brooks dropped from #5 to #34.
• Anthony Harris from #12 to #30
• Justin Simmons from #17 to [unranked because he's not considered top 50 anymore lol]
• Jamal Adams jumped from #32 to #20

Plus I'll bet their year-prediction rankings are vastly different than their own year-end rankings.

[THE BARON]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I can only speak for myself, but, honestly, no.  Unless the Safety is averaging 10-12 INTs a year (what I consider to be the equivalent to elite Pass-Rusher sack numbers/turnovers generated) and he covers like a CB, I'm taking the Pass-Rusher every single time.

Makes sense. A sack can usually arrest a drive and a QB pressure often results in at least a loss of a down and possible interception.   Elite pass rushers also often draw a double.  There is a lot of hidden value in a player that has that fear factor going into a game if he compels the opposing OC to assign two players to one.  Add to it, the league is now pass happy.  Two top keys to the win.  Pass the ball and stop the other team from doing the same.  Hence... QB, EDGE, LT, CB.  Safety is down on the strategic list circa 2020.  Even a Pro Bowler. 

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, if we already had two other elite (or at least demonstrably above-average) young edge rushers

The Jets have zero

Which is a big part of the reason you take the pass rusher.  The drop-off from elite safety to average safety is not as great as the drop off from elite pass rusher to average pass rusher.  Either that or it is much easier to find average or replacement level safeties than pass rushers.  I tend to think it is the latter, but the result is the same.

[kmnj]

jet fans hating on one of the few talented guys we have had in years-I hated the way our former scrub gm tried to build the team by focusing on our secondary with back to back picks-at the time stupid people pointed to the seahawks ignoring the rest of their roster but with that being said Adams is legit- one of the only legit guys on our roster-pay the man and move on-

Adams play alone last year was the  difference in a few of the games -with one of the worst offenses in football last year it was our defense that allowed us to win games and Adams is the star on our defense

 

 

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

It absolutely is an example.  An example is something you use to get a point across.  You used Ed Reed vs Myles Garrett and Nick Bosa.  That's an example in every way, shape, and form.

Addressing the meat of this: Myles Garrett, compared to Jamal Adams, is, at the very least, on equal footing when discussing player caliber.  Going further than that, he might be better.  The fact that he's an EDGE player is the cherry on top.  Bosa, after his rookie year, is not far behind Jamal.  The difference between Jamal and both Garrett and Bosa is that Myles and Nick are absolute game changers at a position that is second, maybe, to QB.

Factoring all of that in, I'd trade Jamal for either one and never think twice about it.

I'm not saying I disagree with the overall sentiment here, but one of the counterpoints always brought up against Adams as a "game changer" is the Jets record since his arrival.  Maybe not by you, but I've seen it many times. If that's part of the equation them why is Garrett a game changer?

What constitutes a game changer? I think that term gets thrown around very loosely and changes meaning depending on the person.

[Prez33]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

See here's the thing about Adams.

He's really good.  Really good.  

It's also true that he plays a position that traditionally isn't as valuable as some others.

I think it's probably true that he is a better overall player than Bosa is.  Does that mean that I wouldn't swap the 2 if possible?  No.  But it also doesn't mean it can't be acknowledged that Adams is a very, very good player.

I would take Bosa over “my guy” Adams. 

 

 

[Prez33]

6 minutes ago, kmnj said:

jet fans hating on one of the few talented guys we have had in years-I hated the way our former scrub gm tried to build the team by focusing on our secondary with back to back picks-at the time stupid people pointed to the seahawks ignoring the rest of their roster but with that being said Adams is legit- one of the only legit guys on our roster-pay the man and move on-

Adams play alone last year was the  difference in a few of the games -with one of the worst offenses in football last year it was our defense that allowed us to win games and Adams is the star on our defense

 

 

Yeah but he’s and “in the box safety”. Those guys have minimal impact on the game. Or so I’ve heard. 

[shawn306]

Quenton Nelson at #4. You could also probably find 10-20 guys you would trade for as well.

 

[shawn306]

Jets fans idea of top 50

1-10 QB

11-20 WR

21-30 Edge Rusher

30-50 CB

[THE BARON]

11 minutes ago, kmnj said:

jet fans hating on one of the few talented guys we have had in years-I hated the way our former scrub gm tried to build the team by focusing on our secondary with back to back picks-at the time stupid people pointed to the seahawks ignoring the rest of their roster but with that being said Adams is legit- one of the only legit guys on our roster-pay the man and move on-

Adams play alone last year was the  difference in a few of the games -with one of the worst offenses in football last year it was our defense that allowed us to win games and Adams is the star on our defense

 

 

I agree... Pay him.  But pay him money for a top SS and no more.  I really like Adams, but I cant see giving a SS more than $13mm a year even if he is the best SS in the league.  If there was no cap, I'd have no objection to giving Adams $100mm a year of WJ's cash, but you can't tie up that much money at the SS position considering economics and ultimate value...

[Skeet Ulrich]

Glad Adams is getting some shine in the press, when the Jets trade him hopefully we can get a 1 + another player.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

LOL:

• 50 best players entering 2019 (this equivalent article from last year)
• 101 best players from the 2019 season

See how many of 2019's top 20ish predicted players ended up about as highly:

• #2 Tom Brady  --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #3 Bobby Wagner --> 1st team AP not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #4 Fletcher Cox  --> #44 after the season (and now back up to #15 again as a 2020 predictor)
• #5 Drew Brees --> #62 after the season (and back up to #11 for 2020)
• #7 Luke Kuechly --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #8 Khalil Mack --> #48 after the season
• #9 DeAndre Hopkins --> #39 after the season
• #10 Julio Jones --> #25 after the season
• #11 Von Miller --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #13 David Bakhtiari --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #15 Jalen Ramsey --> not ranked in ttheire year-end top 101
• #16 Cameron Jordan --> #45 after the season
• #17 Aaron Rodgers --> #86 after the season (lol)
• #18 Earl Thomas --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #19 OBJ --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #20 Chris Jones --> #50 after the season
• #22 Antonio Brown --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #23 Chris Harris Jr --> not ranked in their year-end top 101
• #24 Jason Kelce --> #53 after the season

So forget about #25 Andrew Luck for obvious reasons. That leaves 20 of their top 24 - by their own year-end rankings - had no resemblance to their year-predicted ranking. FFS 10 of their predicted top 24 they didn't think were even good enough to be counted in the top 101 after the season.

But a preseason expected rank of #20 is now significant.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Which is a big part of the reason you take the pass rusher.  The drop-off from elite safety to average safety is not as great as the drop off from elite pass rusher to average pass rusher.  Either that or it is much easier to find average or replacement level safeties than pass rushers.  I tend to think it is the latter, but the result is the same.

Absolutely.

Downgrade to an average safety, well maybe you don't make one or two stops now and then, or you give up another TD.

Downgrade to an average pass rusher, especially in the absence of 1-2 star CBs, and far more than now & then you have no pressure without committing your DBs to blitzes.

Sound familiar?

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Maybe it’s time for the smear campaign to end?

when the argument is that you would trade him for the 25th best player it’s time to move on 

Danielle Hunter (70 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 93 pressures) is the 50th ranked player on this list.

[Rhg1084]

The top 5 guys were:

Donald

Mahomes

Julio

Q Nelson

Kittle 

[Jetsfan80]

This ranking must mean PFF considers Kerry Rhodes to be a GOAT candidate at Safety, then.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Here we go again.... cue the usual suspects. We've got ANOTHER Jamal thread!!!!

People can stop making Jamal threads anytime they want.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, heymangold said:

Of course you’d trade Jamal for someone ranked 20-50.  You guys don’t like him.  You’d trade him for a bag of balls.  

So many tears over a SS.  Jamal isn't that into you my man.  He likes that ho in Dallas a lot more.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Considering how much I loathe PFF, also adding in the fact that they're trying to make the argument that a SS is more valuable/better than a player of equal caliber, possibly better, at the EDGE position, excuse me for looking at this list as the wet fart that it is.

Yep.  PFF doesn't take into account positional importance.  To my knowledge, they operate on a "pass/fail" kind of system.  They watch every play and determine if the player did his job or not.

That kind of oversimplified analysis doesn't lend itself to factoring in the player's importance.  All it does is maybe rank players at the position they play.  So, sure, Jamal Adams is probably the best SS in the league.   Cool, I guess?

[JustInFudge]

PFF is terrible but this would make sense if this is based on some type of value proximation.  When you think about everything Jamal Adams does on the a Football field, he's easily one of the most versatile defenders in all of the league, if not the most.  That's an insanely valuable chess piece to have in today's NFL.  When you literally have to call out #33 on every single play and you never know where he's going to be, it makes life tough for opposing OC's.  Nobody in the NFL plays all 3 levels as well as Jamal Adams.

 

[Jetsfan80]

 

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

PFF is terrible but this would make sense if this is based on some type of value proximation.  When you think about everything Jamal Adams does on the a Football field, he's easily one of the most versatile defenders in all of the league, if not the most.  

 

lol.  PFF themselves admit value is the one thing they CANNOT approximate.  

 

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Just out of curiosity, I looked up the list they made at the end of the 2019 season, and gee look what even PFF says about their #1 player

• George Kittle was the best player in football in 2019. That doesn't mean he was the most impactful or the most valuable, but [...]

[nico002]

Can we be real for a second?

If Jamal wasn’t a me first entitled diva douche we’d be OK with the ranking.

[Jetsfan80]

50 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Jets fans idea of top 50

1-10 QB

11-20 WR

21-30 Edge Rusher

30-50 CB

I mean, that would be a better rankings system than the trash PFF is putting out.

I'll take a top 15 player at any of those 4 positions (QB, WR, EDGE, CB) over Jamal Adams.  

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

lol.  PFF themselves admit value is the one thing they CANNOT approximate.  

 

Well, there you go, they're terrible but as luck may be, probably pretty accurate overall with their ranking on Jamal, maybe a little generous but the guy is an incredible Football player and easily one of the best defenders in the league. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Well, there you go, they're terrible but as luck may be, probably pretty accurate overall with their ranking on Jamal, maybe a little generous but the guy is an incredible Football player and easily one of the best defenders in the league. 

* Who needs 2 quality EDGE rushers and 2-3 quality CB's before his impact actually shows up on the stat sheet.  

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

* Who needs 2 quality EDGE rushers and 2-3 quality CB's before his impact actually shows up on the stat sheet.  

Huh?  Nobody put up stats like Jamal did last year.  He was in a league of his own.  

[shawn306]

45 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, that would be a better rankings system than the trash PFF is putting out.

I'll take a top 15 player at any of those 4 positions (QB, WR, EDGE, CB) over Jamal Adams.  

Or Quentin Nelson