Jamal comes in at #20 on PFF top players

[section314]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I wouldn't mind it.  But you of course don't pay Anthony Barr $15-18M per year. 

Barr signed last year for $67.5M over 5 years ($13.5M per), with $15.9M guaranteed.  And what he will actually get paid out will be much lower, given that he will never see the final year on the deal (2023 - $18.1M against the cap).  Essentially it ends up being a 4-year deal worth about $12.5M per year.

That would be a pretty good benchmark contract for what Adams is actually worth.

Agree, with one caveat. Jamal is twice the player that Barr is.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Agree, with one caveat. Jamal is twice the player that Barr is.

Nope.  I edited my post to address this:

 

And before anyone says Adams is a lot better than Barr, keep in mind that Barr's numbers in an average season isn't that far off from Adams' production:  48.5 Solo Tackles, 0.3 INTs, 2.5 Sacks, 1.3 FFs, 6.0 TFLs, 4.3 PDs, 6.3 QB Hits.  With 4 Pro Bowl appearances in 6 seasons. 

 

Is Adams better?  Absolutely.  "Twice the player" that Barr is?  Nah.  

[Big_Slick]

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Ok so they get rid of a WR and replace him with someone that produces less and then they should get rid of the best player on the team and replace him with someone that produces less. Is there anyone else that they should replace replace with a less productive player? It’s not a farm team for the NFL. 

You don't pay a SS 17-20M a year.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Ok so they get rid of a WR and replace him with someone that produces less and then they should get rid of the best player on the team and replace him with someone that produces less. Is there anyone else that they should replace replace with a less productive player? It’s not a farm team for the NFL. 

It's pretty simple.  The idea is to take the money you would spend on a player with limited impact (like Adams) and spend it on a player that is much more impactful (like, say, scheduled free agent options Chris Godwin, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Kenny Golladay, Keenan Allen, Allen Robinson, Cooper Kupp or T.Y. Hilton; all scheduled to be FA's after the 2020 season).  PLUS the extra draft capital to add more young, cheap talent.

It's not just downgrading at a position for no reason.  There would be a purpose behind it, with the end goal being to have the roster be stronger overall.  

I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp and why it is met with such angst. 

Just about everyone here has said, in one form or another, that its all about building around the QB.  That's what matters most across the league AND what this franchise needs the most at this time.  In what universe does spending $15-18M per year on the Strong Safety who doesn't cause many turnovers help the QB?

[New York Mick]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's pretty simple.  The idea is to take the money you would spend on a player with limited impact (like Adams) and spend it on a player that is much more impactful (like, say, scheduled free agent options Chris Godwin, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Kenny Golladay, Keenan Allen, Allen Robinson, Cooper Kupp or T.Y. Hilton; all scheduled to be FA's after the 2020 season).  PLUS the extra draft capital to add more young, cheap talent.

It's not just downgrading at a position for no reason.  There would be a purpose behind it, with the end goal being to have the roster be stronger overall.  

I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp and why it is met with such angst. 

Just about everyone here has said, in one form or another, that its all about building around the QB.  That's what matters most across the league AND what this franchise needs the most at this time.  In what universe does spending $15-18M per year on the Strong Safety who doesn't cause many turnovers help the QB?

Unfortunately the Jets never do that. They overpay crappy players, sign old players past their prime, sign players that are hurt, hire crappy coaches and staff and think it will work. 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Unfortunately the Jets never do that. They overpay crappy players, sign old players past their prime, sign players that are hurt, hire crappy coaches and staff and think it will work. 

Well that's why I'm happy with JD, at least for now.  He doesn't strike me as the type that is going to do that here.  At least not often.  He's demonstrated he has a good pulse on a player's actual market value and pays accordingly. 

We have no idea what his longterm plans are with the coaching staff, so that's a complete unknown.  But he's already proven he's better at roster management than Macc.  Macc would have handed Adams $20M per already.  

Let's assume JD is the goods.  Does he strike you as someone that will cave in to Adams' demands?  And what do you think the end result will be if he refuses to do so?  If he draws a line in the sand and Adams doesn't budge, what do you think he SHOULD do?

[Big_Slick]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Unfortunately the Jets never do that. They overpay crappy players, sign old players past their prime, sign players that are hurt, hire crappy coaches and staff and think it will work. 

That was the old days - JD is the new boss in town and we'll not see that kind of BS anymore.

[New York Mick]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well that's why I'm happy with JD, at least for now.  He doesn't strike me as the type that is going to do that here.  At least not often.  He's demonstrated he has a good pulse on a player's actual market value and pays accordingly. 

We have no idea what his longterm plans are with the coaching staff, so that's a complete unknown.  But he's already proven he's better at roster management than Macc.  Macc would have handed Adams $20M per already.  

Let's assume JD is the goods.  Does he strike you as someone that will cave in to Adams' demands?  And what do you think the end result will be if he refuses to do so?  If he draws a line in the sand and Adams doesn't budge, what do you think he SHOULD do?

 

6 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

That was the old days - JD is the new boss in town and we'll not see that kind of BS anymore.

After 40 plus years I’m a little skeptical. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

 

After 40 plus years I’m a little skeptical. 

I get it.  We all are.  But can you answer the questions in my previous post when given the assumption that JD is actually good at his job?

 

Let's assume JD is the goods.  Does he strike you as someone that will cave in to Adams' demands?  And what do you think the end result will be if he refuses to do so?  If he draws a line in the sand and Adams doesn't budge, what do you think he SHOULD do?

[New York Mick]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get it.  We all are.  But can you answer the questions in my previous post when given the assumption that JD is actually good at his job?

 

Let's assume JD is the goods.  Does he strike you as someone that will cave in to Adams' demands?  And what do you think the end result will be if he refuses to do so?  If he draws a line in the sand and Adams doesn't budge, what do you think he SHOULD do?

They can tag him. He’s under contract for a few more years and it’s not just about JA or Anderson and it’s being more directed at fans that want to always get rid of better players because they’re mad The team didn’t draft someone else or they think he’s not worth the money. 

As far as JD I hope he’ll make the right decisions and turn the team around but I don’t get my hopes up to high anymore. I expect the team to make bad decisions and suck. Unfortunately I’m a fan so there’s always that little flicker of hope that says they might be able to turn it around. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

They can tag him.

OK.  What next after tagging him?

[slats]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

They can tag him. He’s under contract for a few more years and it’s not just about JA or Anderson and it’s being more directed at fans that want to always get rid of better players because they’re mad The team didn’t draft someone else or they think he’s not worth the money. 

As far as JD I hope he’ll make the right decisions and turn the team around but I don’t get my hopes up to high anymore. I expect the team to make bad decisions and suck. Unfortunately I’m a fan so there’s always that little flicker of hope that says they might be able to turn it around. 

If I couldn't get a decent trade offer, that's what I'd do. He's under contract for two more years. He plays a low value position. He wants to get premium pay, but the franchise tag number for a safety this year is $11.4M. They could tag him in three years and then tag him a second time in the fourth for 120% of what he made on the first tag, and still not be at the number he's looking for. 

[New York Mick]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

OK.  What next after tagging him?

That’s two years from now. A lot can change. 

[New York Mick]

Just now, New York Mick said:

That’s two years from now. A lot can change. 

Ok it’s longer it’s 4 years after read Slats post. 

[Jetsfan80]

31 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

That’s two years from now. A lot can change. 

 

30 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Ok it’s longer it’s 4 years after read Slats post. 

 

Yes it is.  I get that we have the ability to kick the can down the road on Adams, in theory.  But from a practical sense, there will be difficulties there.  Adams will most definitely try to shoot his way out of town.  And his trade value could suffer as a result.

I have to assume that it doesn't sound like you have much interest in Adams being a Jet beyond his rookie deal and franchise tag (2x), at least not at the price he's going to ask for.   Correct?  I can only assume this since you're not willing to entertain thoughts on Adams' 2nd contract.

So at some point, whether its 1 year from now or 4, we'll have to trade him.  I'd rather trade him earlier than later when his value is at its highest and before he starts causing problems.

[New York Mick]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Yes it is.  I get that we have the ability to kick the can down the road on Adams, in theory.  But from a practical sense, there will be difficulties there.  Adams will most definitely try to shoot his way out of town.  And his trade value could suffer as a result.

I have to assume that it doesn't sound like you have much interest in Adams being a Jet beyond his rookie deal and franchise tag (2x), at least not at the price he's going to ask for.  Correct?  So at some point, whether its 1 year from now or 4, we'll have to trade him.  I'd rather trade him earlier than later when his value is at its highest and before he starts causing problems.

I’ve always said if they can get enough in a trade for him then let him go if not keep him. Maybe in the next few years the Jets turn it around and they’re the new hot team in the NFL and he’ll want to stay without raping the team. Who knows. 

[Dunnie]

... and that is why you fail.

No, I'd trade him for either a true elite Offensive player or for 1st and 3rd round Draft picks.
A bit more than a bag of footballs.

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[Dunnie]

Anyone that would take Jamal Adams over Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa is an absolute idiot in every single definition of the word.

I'd take Garret no way in hell Bosa .

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[Dunnie]

I'm sorry, but what a ridiculous example.
1st: Jamal Adams doesn't play the same position as Reed.  He also doesn't make even 1 sliver of the same impact as Reed playing the position(s) that he does play.
2nd:  Reed's career is finished, whereas all three players being discussed here are, literally, just getting started.  We're comparing young players to other young players.
Now that we've settled that, here's the best answer I can possibly give this question:
If Myles Garrett continues his trajectory and, ultimately, becomes a HoF Pass-Rusher?  No.  I would take Garrett 10 times out of 10.  Same goes for Bosa.  If they both become HoF pass rushers, you take the Pass Rusher over the Safety every single time.

Wow ... So wrong on so many points.

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[Dunnie]

No, we really don't.  The CJ Mosley contract ensured that.  And with 2017 draft class QBs Mahomes and Watson beginning the process of negotiating their new deals, JD has to consider Darnold's new contract in the equation, as those negotiations could begin as early as 2021. 
Spending $15-18M per on a SS is completely ill-advised, no matter how good he is.

Only of Darnold Studs out instead of Duds out.

We miss the playoffs in year three it's time to draft more competition and pay guys like Adams.

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[MindOverMatter]

23 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Wow ... So wrong on so many points.

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Speaking of wrong points. You have a knack of posting them yourself. Everything @Mogglez wrote is accurate. Reed was a FS, only played SS at the start of his career.

Reed is a HoF, all the other players are young current players. Adams can't hold Reed's jockstrap. Only a homer thinks something like that.

And most importantly, a elite pass rusher is 10x more valuable than an elite safety.

You are delusional from a team building standpoint if you can't see that.

[Dunnie]

Speaking of wrong points. You have a knack of posting them yourself. Everything [mention=9230]Mogglez[/mention] wrote is accurate. Reed was a FS, only played SS at the start of his career.
Reed is a HoF, all the other players are young current players. Adams can't hold Reed's jockstrap. Only a homer thinks something like that.
And most importantly, a elite pass rusher is 10x more valuable than an elite safety.
You are delusional from a team building standpoint if you can't see that.

I'd argue at this point in his career he has had a comparitve impact on his team .. and that is without Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott or Chris McAllister... Time to wake up.

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[MindOverMatter]

20 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I'd argue at this point in his career he has had a comparitve impact on his team .. and that is without Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott or Chris McAllister... Time to wake up.

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Reed won DPoY in his 3rd year playing. I need to wake up? Says the guys under his covers with his pajamas on.

[MindOverMatter]

21 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I'd argue at this point in his career he has had a comparitve impact on his team .. and that is without Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott or Chris McAllister... Time to wake up.

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I'd argue your wrong. The Jets have a losing record every year Jamal has been on the team. His impact is minimal.

Reed in his 1st 3 years recorded more interceptions than Jamal will his whole career. Thanks for the laugh though.

[Dunnie]

I'd argue your wrong. The Jets have a losing record every year Jamal has been on the team. His impact is minimal.

Reed in his 1st 3 years recorded more interceptions than Jamal will his whole career. Thanks for the laugh though.

They don't play the same position bro ... And Reed was on a stacked defense w arguably the greatest linebacker to ever play.

 

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[MindOverMatter]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

They don't play the same position bro ... And Reed was on a stacked defense w arguably the greatest linebacker to ever play.

 

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He played SS when he won DPoY. They did in fact play the same position.

Reed switched to FS after 4th year I believe. I just get ticked off when people compare players to 1st ballot HoFers. Disrespectful and inaccurate.

[Dunnie]

He played SS when he won DPoY. They did in fact play the same position.

Reed switched to FS after 4th year I believe. I just get ticked off when people compare players to 1st ballot HoFers. Disrespectful and inaccurate.

Lol I was responding to another post that brought Reed into the conversation ... Jamal is a stud ... The more people on this board that embrace that fact the higher the collective IQ will rise.

 

It's ok to not want a stud game changing strong safety ... It's a whole nother thing start name calling and disparaging him because of the position he plays.

 

Guy is the best ball player we have had since Revis.

 

 

 

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[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Wow ... So wrong on so many points.

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Then point out where I'm wrong, because there are tangible stats to back up my points.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, MindOverMatter said:

Speaking of wrong points. You have a knack of posting them yourself. Everything @Mogglez wrote is accurate. Reed was a FS, only played SS at the start of his career.

Reed is a HoF, all the other players are young current players. Adams can't hold Reed's jockstrap. Only a homer thinks something like that.

And most importantly, a elite pass rusher is 10x more valuable than an elite safety.

You are delusional from a team building standpoint if you can't see that.