Popular Post BallinPB Posted June 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: White privilege is a real thing. I didn't believe it was as recently as 5 years ago. Now its blatantly obvious to me. Some people have the luxury of going into a bubble their whole lives and avoid the truths about this world and how ugly it can be. Others can't ever avoid it. I was in that bubble once. Never again. Grow and change or you are part of the problem. Period. Here's what I will say about this. I want to start off by letting everyone know that i am a 32 year old black male. There's a video that's going around recently that tried to show how white privilege is a real thing. I will post the link below. What I will say to this video is myself, I grew up what I would describe as upper middle class. My mother was a postal worker by my dad made a good amount of money as a general manager for a large fastener/tool distribution company in NYC. In all honesty, most of the questions in the video I would have stepped forward to. I myself have experienced racism but I deal with it different from others. I don't complain about it or let it bring me down, I push past it and move forward while chalking it up to ignorance. I do think it's more of a culture problem than a race problem but the fact of the matter is the proportion of minorities living in poverty is much higher than the proportion of white people but like I said even as a black man, I don't know if I have proper perspective on this because I feel I grew up with every opportunity as the white classmates I went to school with. My question to you is what do you think of the idea of it being a cultural problem rather than a race problem? I don't want to cause an argument with anyone here just want to hear another perspective on the issue. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 With that aside, great thread and post, @Warfish. Very well said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 You stressed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Warfish said: That's an issue you need to take up with Max. I don't think he agrees. I would hate to see you, or JiF, banned. But you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess. Just not sure what good you think you're doing on this forum by talking it here. If what I am saying is ban-worthy, so be it. I'm bringing it up in this thread because others have tagged Max in and the topic title opens the door to discussing it. Your plea is to JN posters. My response is a plea, of sorts, to Max. It's not directed at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, New York Mick said: He’d have a sore hand if he lived in Fort Lauderdale Just now, EM31 said: Understood. The right to freely exchange droplets seems to be a regional assertion. No kidding with the regional thing.... I'm going to drive up from SC to Long Island tonight. My daughter told me to make sure I wear a mask before I go into a rest stop or stop to eat. I went and bought some for the first time this morning. I feel like I'm heading into a lions den, but I have to go up there for at least a month because of a family issue. Not looking forward to the trip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNuuFaaolaExperience Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: If good people do nothing about the bad, then they are no better. Evil is allowed to triumph when good men do nothing. Being apathetic is what white privilege looks like. "Hundreds" of examples don't change that it exists. Just like millions of examples of good people don't remove the existence of racism. Do you want people to rally behind you? Insulting them is not going to work. It never has, and it never will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post munchmemory Posted June 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, JiF said: I disagree. The NFL is at the forefront of the conversation because they clearly miss handled their last opportunity to do the right thing and now going to have to face it on a much larger scale. I hated how the NFL vilified Kaepernick with the false messages about how his kneeling was a show of disrespect to the military, flag, and anything else American they could make stick. Even when they knew--and Kaepernick made clear--that the kneeling was only in protest for police brutality toward the black community. But the owners are a bunch of rich scumbags who fanned these flames ultimately ending Kaepernick's career. And what about Goddell and the Player's Union? They are equally complicit. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JetFreak89 Posted June 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: The point of this thread was not to get into a political debate, and now here we are. I hear you. Kap and every other player who took a knee was trying to bring attention to their cause, and a noble cause at that. However, the divisive nature of kneeling took the focus away from the cause and put the focus squarely on the kneeling. Right, wrong, or indifferent, you have to send a message that will be heard by the people you are trying to reach. If people are arguing about your chosen method of protest, you have to try something else. If the goal is to get people to understand your point of view, the worst thing you could do is offend them. I get what you are saying but really tear down your point and think about what you are saying. The nuts and bolts of it is: If oppressed people are participating in a non-violent protest and those in the majority disagree with the protest, the oppressed have to change their tactics in order not to hurt the feelings of the majority. Seriously, the whole kneeling argument boils down to this: If people are telling you they are protesting about one thing (violence against African-Americans), the majority does not have the power to change the protest to be about something entirely different (the flag, the military) just so they can dismiss it and say "Sorry, we don't like that. Try something else next time and we might listen." 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warfish said: Well, it's up to Max then if he agrees with you. Clearly you don't agree with my OP. I'm not sure people really disagree with the position fish. Personally I thought it came across as a bit self serving mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beerfish Posted June 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2020 In the wise words of John Lennon, All we are saying is give peas a chance. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: No kidding with the regional thing.... I'm going to drive up from SC to Long Island tonight. My daughter told me to make sure I wear a mask before I go into a rest stop or stop to eat. I went and bought some for the first time this morning. I feel like I'm heading into a lions den, but I have to go up there for at least a month because of a family issue. Not looking forward to the trip... The northeast got hit pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, BallinPB said: My question to you is what do you think of the idea of it being a cultural problem rather than a race problem? I don't want to cause an argument with anyone here just want to hear another perspective on the issue. I think its both. There are plenty of numbers out there to indicate there is implicit bias. And there is information to suggest that racist policies of the past have hurt and continue to hurt people of color today. Redlining is the big one there. Racism and classism BOTH exist, and are pervasive at a systemic level. I just happen to think racism is the worse evil right now, since people of color tend to be hurt by both. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: I never said we should ignore it. We should mourn every wrongful death. But most of the time when people say that, its just to deflect away from the matter at hand. The black community is broken right now. There SHOULD be outrage. I completely agree but it’s been broken and it has a lot more to do with then just bad cops. Unfortunately it is being ignored. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prez33 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: The movement was never meant to be political. The reactions to the movement made it political. Yeah. Uh huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, EM31 said: In other news a friend of mine decked a non-mask wearing customer in a liquor store today. My friend confronted him about not wearing a mask and the guy came at him. My friend is in his 50s but he is also a former golden gloves champ and put the guy down with one punch. Part of me thinks that was the wrong thing to do but a bigger part is 100% supportive. The fellow left the store apparently without completing his liquor purchase. Poor baby. Rank amateur. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: Do you want people to rally behind you? Insulting them is not going to work. It never has, and it never will. Who did I insult? I didn't make it personal about any person in this thread. I am arguing with ideas, not people. I myself have white privilege too. I'm just trying to understand what to do about that to help grow, change, and do something positive for others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, EM31 said: I'm not sure people really disagree with the position fish. Personally I thought it came across as a bit self serving mate. Wasn't my intent, nor was it (as SAR said) Virtue Signaling. I just know what Political talk does on a football forum better then most. It creates anger and division and conflict and bad feelings. And that's on a normal Tuesday. These days..... In any event, stupid me, it was still a mistake to post it, clearly. C'est la vie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Okay, I see it didn't take very long for this thread to completely do a 180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNuuFaaolaExperience Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, BallinPB said: the fact of the matter is the proportion of minorities living in poverty is much higher than the proportion of white people In absolute numbers, white people have a higher poverty level. What does the proportion of poverty have to do with anything? Do you think that poor white people have it easier than poor black people? Nothing would indicate that other than opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said: Seriously, the whole kneeling argument boils down to this: If people are telling you they are protesting about one thing (violence against African-Americans), the majority does not have the power to change the protest to be about something entirely different (the flag, the military) just so they can dismiss it and say "Sorry, we don't like that. Try something else next time and we might listen." "A riot is the language of the unheard." - Martin Luther King, 1967 7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Warfish said: Wasn't my intent, nor was it (as SAR said) Virtue Signaling. I just know what Political talk does on a football forum better then most. It creates anger and division and conflict and bad feelings. And that's on a normal Tuesday. These days..... In any event, stupid me, it was still a mistake to post it, clearly. C'est la vie. All of back into things with the best of intentions sometimes. Perhaps it is time for another Jamal Adams thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: Do you think that poor white people have it easier than poor black people? Nothing would indicate that other than opinion. Nothing except for readily available statistics suggesting that that is exactly the case. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prez33 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Well so much for not making things political! We’ve got people making politically charged statements, and saying it’s not political. This is comedy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warfish said: I just know what Political talk does on a football forum better then most. It creates anger and division and conflict and bad feelings. And that's on a normal Tuesday. These days..... It does that on any forum or medium. Problem with that argument is that this isn't about politics, or at least it should NOT be. It's about basic human decency and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Locked threads are better than willful ignorance. All 50 states and 18 countries are protesting right now. This is bigger than us, bigger than JN, bigger than football, bigger than just about everything. It seems hollow to be trying to "stick to football" right now. I'll do it out of respect for Max, but not without complaint. And no, I don't want to join another board to talk about it. There's actually been some good and rational discussions here, unlike the cesspools on other boards. JN is better equipped to discuss this in a mature, thoughtful way than at least 90 % of message boards out there. I can just about guarantee that. I love the sh*t outta you, but lol, no you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JetFreak89 Posted June 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: In absolute numbers, white people have a higher poverty level. What does the proportion of poverty have to do with anything? Do you think that poor white people have it easier than poor black people? Nothing would indicate that other than opinion. If you have a country of 100 people, 90 white and 10 black, and 60 out of the 90 white people live in poverty and 9 out of the 10 black people live in poverty, which color is most effected? You are saying that the white population have it worse because in absolute numbers there are 60 vs 9. That certainly doesn't paint the whole picture does it? 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallinPB Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: I think its both. There are plenty of numbers out there to indicate there is implicit bias. And there is information to suggest that racist policies of the past have hurt and continue to hurt people of color today. Redlining is the big one there. Racism and classism BOTH exist, and are pervasive at a systemic level. I just happen to think racism is the worse evil right now, since people of color tend to be hurt by both. I get it and also want to clarify when I say culture is that I mean the social aspect of life. For example in a neighborhood with poverty, it may be more acceptable to be on welfare, drop out of school, be a drug dealer etc. Not sure if those are bad examples but you get what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Maxman Posted June 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 6, 2020 I haven't been around much the past few weeks. I am checking in, but there is so much going on I haven't had time to talk about the Jets. The one thing we never wanted to do is stifle anyone. We have always had the no politics rule and that has served us well. It let us focus on football, focus on the Jets. It meant we don't have partisan divide, letting us focus on Jets talk. Right now, there is so much uncertainty. We don't even know if training camp will start on time or if fans will be in attendance when the games begin. That is all a long way of saying we hear what is on everyone's mind. Back to the first point, we never wanted to stifle anyone. We are just trying to make sure people aren't fighting here, we are all one Jets family. I have an idea on how we might be able to try something new. I don't think a group PM would work out, eventually it will get too big. Please give me a day or so. We don't want anyone leaving the site. I want to test out another option, a more private option that could allow a little more freedom. We will never be a site that welcomes the normal partisan politics conversations that happen everywhere. I think we have a way to keep the NFL forum about football on the field and still give people a voice. I will post more information soon. Not to be overly dramatic but we are a family here. So many people are hurting right now. Let's stick together, that's what family does. 11 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Maxman Posted June 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just bumping this so the last post is seen. We are working on something, give us a little time but I think we have a way to extend the conversation beyond what is normally considered acceptable here. Being civil towards each other will always be a requirement though. Thanks everyone, hope to have more info soon. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Going to roll out a new option tomorrow that will help us with some opt in conversations that won't be on the main board. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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