2010 IND Playoff Game

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Very few are, Brady and maybe Rodgers? Most QBs need a lot of talent around them.

Eh, but there is a spectrum. Mark was at the wrong end of that spectrum. 

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Eh, but there is a spectrum. Mark was at the wrong end of that spectrum. 

I have never said mark was a top QB but he was a QB that proved he could win with talent around him and he did it without top talent.  We had a top 10 roster but not top 5.  We couldn't win with Favre, an easier schedule and no Brady in 2008.  We won because of D first but Mark deserves more respect from our fanbase.

[jetscrazey]

I was at that game.  Sanchez was bad in the first half, he sailed every pass.  Threw a pick in Colts territory right before halftime.

But to his credit he tightened up in the 2nd half thanks to the running game opening up. and then delivered on the final drive.

The defense is what I'll really remember from that game.  It was a real chess match.  Revis took out Reggie Wayne, held him to 1 catch, 1 yard.  Peyton Manning never even looked his way.  Cromartie took out Garcon except for one deep bomb slip-up in the 1st half.  All Peyton had left was Austin Collie and Jacob Tamme.

This was the game Rex finally learned how to win by playing coverage.  On every 3rd down he'd put just 4-5 guys in the box, daring Peyton to audible to a running play.  And usually Peyton did, and it worked.  The Jets D kept getting off the field.  It was fascinating to watch.  Also, an assist goes to Jim Caldwell for some of the worst clock management I've ever seen at the end.

 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

Yes indeed.  Sanchez played his best football when he was "up against it".  It forced him to focus and concentrate.  I liked Sanchez a lot.  Thought he had a lot of physical tools and he was a really likable person.  It was obvious to me that he really didn't want to play football all that much.  Most of his interceptions and other memorable blunders like the butt-fumble were all a result of losing his concentration.  He has plenty of general smarts and good football smarts too.  He just didn't really wanna be there regardless of what he said to the coaches or media.  It was obvious.  No big wonder why he played better in big games and when the team was behind.  That is what it took to wake him up from daydreaming about where he really wanted to be... 

Agreed... similar with many after they sign a big contract. Go to the ATM and see 25 million in your account , you can lose motivation.  

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I have never said mark was a top QB but he was a QB that proved he could win with talent around him and he did it without top talent.  We had a top 10 roster but not top 5.  We couldn't win with Favre, an easier schedule and no Brady in 2008.  We won because of D first but Mark deserves more respect from our fanbase.

I think I'll leave this here.

I think winning with him long term was always going to be difficult because I just don't think he was that good, but I will agree that Mark deserves credit for elevating his game in the playoffs. He was a good playoff performer for us and I certainly think we could have won the Superbowl with him in in 2010, with a few more lucky bounces of the ball. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, jetscrazey said:

5 guys in the box, daring Peyton to audible to a running play.  And usually Peyton did, and it worked.  The Jets D kept getting off the field.  It was fascinating to watch.  Also, an assist goes to Jim Caldwell for some of the worst clock management I've ever seen at the end.

 

Yep, this was a huge deal. 

Peyton was carving up Rex's defense as per usual, but he was baited into running on numerous huge plays. Kudos to Rex for getting that done. 

And yes, Peyton was visibly upset by Caldwell's last timeout when the Jets were driving for the winning score. 

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think I'll leave this here.

I think winning with him long term was always going to be difficult because I just don't think he was that good, but I I will agree that Mark deserves credit for elevating his game in the playoffs. He was a good playoff performer for us and I certainly think we could have won the Superbowl with him in in 2010, with a few more lucky bounces of the ball. 

That's fair.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yep, this was a huge deal. 

Peyton was carving up Rex's defense as per usual, but he was baited into running on numerous huge plays. Kudos to Rex for getting that done. 

And yes, Peyton was visibly upset by Caldwell's last timeout when the Jets were driving for the winning score. 

The TO was dumb but the Jets were in great position regardless.

[slimjasi]

23 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The TO was dumb but the Jets were in great position regardless.

Yes, I think we were winning that game once Cromartie got the good return. 

[THE BARON]

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

That's fair.

The Jets would have at least went to the Super Bowl that year if the zebra crew in the AFC Champ game vs. Pittsburg didn't do what they always do.  Close their eyes and stop calling offensive holding on the Steelers  at the end of the 4th qtr.  The Jets offense had the Steelers on their heels at the end of the game.  All the Jets defense needed was one stop.  

They could not get that stop because offensive holding on the Steeler line was not called.  

If you get a chance, go back and watch the last Steeler offensive drive and keep an eye out for all the flagrant holding that the refs didn't call.  They know they get treated REAL good if they call it the right way when the NFL's brand name Steelers are in need...

 

[SAR I]

9 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I'll ask it again - If Mark was so good and clearly worth building around, why isn't he still in the NFL? Why was he not a full-time starter anymore after 2012? Why did he become a journeyman? Why didn't some smart organization "invest in him with proper coaching and receivers?" Strange, huh? 

Two reasons:

1.  He was never the same after the injury to his throwing shoulder courtesy of Rex Ryan's preseason stupidity.

2.  Confidence is a real thing.  Ask Steve Young in Tampa, ask Brett Favre in Atlanta.  If you have the wrong organization with the wrong coaching staff who don't believe in you, you fall to pieces.  When you're in the right situation, you flourish.

SAR I

[SAR I]

9 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Correct. 

But this underlies my point. Mark wasn't capable of carrying the team when the talent around him eroded. That's why he's not here (or anywhere in the NFL) anymore. 

 

Not this old wives tale again. 

There is no point in a quarterback 'carrying the team'.  No NFL club has ever won a Super Bowl with a great quarterback leading 4th place talent.  Matt Ryan is a great quarterback.  So is Matt Stafford.  They aren't carrying anybody.  Tom Brady, best of them all, went 10 years without winning a Super Bowl.  If anyone could 'carry' a team good enough to win its division all those years to a Championship it was Tom Brady in the prime of his career.

The idea is to have a quarterback who compliments the kind of team you are building.  The Ryan strategy was a simple one-  '85 Bears defense, '65 Packers ground attack.  Mark Sanchez was the perfect quarterback for that type of team.  Play conservative.  Make a big throw when needed.  Lead fierce fourth quarter comebacks in an emergency.  The proof is in the victories and the playoff runs.  

Dumping Sanchez was the dumbest move the Jets ever made.  Those ignorant fans that pressured management to move off him, like you, are to blame for a huge mistake.  Best to keep quiet about it.

SAR I

[SAR I]

9 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Yes indeed.  Sanchez played his best football when he was "up against it".  It forced him to focus and concentrate.  I liked Sanchez a lot.  Thought he had a lot of physical tools and he was a really likable person.  It was obvious to me that he really didn't want to play football all that much.  Most of his interceptions and other memorable blunders like the butt-fumble were all a result of losing his concentration.  He has plenty of general smarts and good football smarts too.  He just didn't really wanna be there regardless of what he said to the coaches or media.  It was obvious.  No big wonder why he played better in big games and when the team was behind.  That is what it took to wake him up from daydreaming about where he really wanted to be... 

That's a really bad theory.  Just like the snake oil slim is selling.

How about this:

The Jets didn't invest in Mark Sanchez because their head coach was hell-bent on portraying himself as a Defensive Genius and marketing himself for his next NFL gig.  If we actually used draft picks and free agent funds properly on young players who played at the level that Braylon Edwards, LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, and the rest of the over-the-hill-gang did except were younger and would stay in town for more than a year Mark might have flourished and improved.  Every year another cast of characters to throw to.  Schotty gone and the worst OC in the history of the NFL in Tony Sporano brought in.  Clyde Gates and Chaz Shillens.  And on and on.

If we wanted to destroy a young quarterback's career we couldn't have scripted it any better.  

SAR I

[slimjasi]

51 minutes ago, SAR I said:

 

Dumping Sanchez was the dumbest move the Jets ever made. 

I’ll let this stand on its own merit 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Two reasons:

1.  He was never the same after the injury to his throwing shoulder courtesy of Rex Ryan's preseason stupidity.

He was never the same as what, exactly? 
He was awful the year before (2012)

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

He was never the same as what, exactly? 
He was awful the year before (2012)

With Stephen Hill, Chaz schilens and Clyde Gates as his main weapons.  I wonder why he struggled in 2012?

 

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I’ll let this stand on its own merit 

If there wasn't a sham QB competition in 2013 forcing Rex to put him in during that preseason game the Jets go to the playoffs that year with Mark.  Geno was awful that year and they won 8 games.

[nyjunc]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

Two reasons:

1.  He was never the same after the injury to his throwing shoulder courtesy of Rex Ryan's preseason stupidity.

2.  Confidence is a real thing.  Ask Steve Young in Tampa, ask Brett Favre in Atlanta.  If you have the wrong organization with the wrong coaching staff who don't believe in you, you fall to pieces.  When you're in the right situation, you flourish.

SAR I

With regards to point #1 he was actually very good in Philadelphia in 2014.  The offense scored almost a TD more per game with Mark than they did with Foles and mark faced the tough part of the schedule.  5 of his 8 starts came against teams that made at least the divisional round of the playoffs.  

[southparkcpa]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

That's a really bad theory.  Just like the snake oil slim is selling.

 

If we wanted to destroy a young quarterback's career we couldn't have scripted it any better.  

SAR I

You mean drafting Kyle Wilson instead of Gronkowski was a bad idea????   REX is the QB killer of all time. 

[THE BARON]

17 hours ago, SAR I said:

That's a really bad theory.  Just like the snake oil slim is selling.

How about this:

The Jets didn't invest in Mark Sanchez because their head coach was hell-bent on portraying himself as a Defensive Genius and marketing himself for his next NFL gig.  If we actually used draft picks and free agent funds properly on young players who played at the level that Braylon Edwards, LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, and the rest of the over-the-hill-gang did except were younger and would stay in town for more than a year Mark might have flourished and improved.  Every year another cast of characters to throw to.  Schotty gone and the worst OC in the history of the NFL in Tony Sporano brought in.  Clyde Gates and Chaz Shillens.  And on and on.

If we wanted to destroy a young quarterback's career we couldn't have scripted it any better.  

SAR I

Ug… That is an even worse theory.  Rex *REALLY* wanted to remain a Jet.  I'm sure now, he is still a true Jet and identifies with the Jets.   We are talking about 2010 now, and not the steady decline  of the roster that occurred afterwards...

Incidentally, I credit and blame Woody for the entire Rex phenomenon.  Woody hired Rex without really knowing what he was doing other than adding sensationalism and visibility to his team.  He blundered into something fantastic.  We got some of the most fun Jets football we have ever seen and we got NON STOP fun in the sports media.  I really LOVED the Rex tenure... BUT... Woody continued to blunder.  As Rex had tremendous early success, Woody gave Rex the nod as the defacto GM.  Tanny was a total push-over for what Rex wanted and although Rex was a great game time coach and fantastically fun media persona, he was in NO WAY a good defacto GM.  Rex is *CLEARLY* an emotional reactionary.  That personality type should never, Never, NEVER be allowed to act as a GM.  It guarantees a manpower disaster.  And that is *EXACTLY* what we got.  

When you are an organization's top administrator (WOODY), it is up to you to understand the nature of your officers.  When you have an emotional reactionary, you don't let them play a role in staffing.  It will surely lead to complete disfunction.

And that is what happened to Rex and the Jets.

Woody blundered into something good, but due to his overall lack of wisdom, he allowed his "good thing" to go over a cliff.  

I maintain now, and will always maintain.  If Woody knew what he was doing, he could have had sustained success if he knew what Rex was as what he wasn't.  And... Protected Rex from himself.  You let Rex stay as HC, let Tanny stay as a capologist and contract language guy, but you take player decisions WAY OUT OF THEIR HANDS.  You hire an assistant GM to run the scouting department.  And...  You FORCE the HC and GM to hire a qualified OC and you let him have autonomy over the offense.  Believe me... Rex loved the Jets so much and being the HC, I GUARANTEE he would not have left the Jets if he had to accept an assistant GM to pick manpower and an OC to give the team an offensive identity too,  Something Rex had no clue of...

Same with Mangini.  Opposite strengths and weaknesses from Rex.  Mangini could have stayed as the HC and continued his systematic approach to running an organization and building on strong character and cooperation with scouts and assistant coaches to evaluate talent.  A wise owner would have forced the TANGINI team to hire a proven and experienced OC and DC and let Mangini act as overall administrator, but not the in-game coach for the offense and defense UNTIL he learned the game completely.  

Wood's blunders give'ith and Woody's blunders take'ith away... 

I know other posters don't care for my bombast, but I have to say this.  Anyone that does not understand and agree with what I wrote above does not have the tools or understanding to be a manager/administrator in any sort of an organization.  Expecially one the is driven by easily measurable performance... 

[Snook]

18 hours ago, THE BARON said:

The Jets would have at least went to the Super Bowl that year if the zebra crew in the AFC Champ game vs. Pittsburg didn't do what they always do.  Close their eyes and stop calling offensive holding on the Steelers  at the end of the 4th qtr.  The Jets offense had the Steelers on their heels at the end of the game.  All the Jets defense needed was one stop.  

They could not get that stop because offensive holding on the Steeler line was not called.  

If you get a chance, go back and watch the last Steeler offensive drive and keep an eye out for all the flagrant holding that the refs didn't call.  They know they get treated REAL good if they call it the right way when the NFL's brand name Steelers are in need...

 

Have a friend who's a Steeler fan and was at the game. We go back and forth at each other all the time about sports and he called me right after the the final whistle to tell me the Jets were robbed. There were others in the stands talking about it.

[Lith]

19 hours ago, THE BARON said:

The Jets would have at least went to the Super Bowl that year if the zebra crew in the AFC Champ game vs. Pittsburg didn't do what they always do.  Close their eyes and stop calling offensive holding on the Steelers  at the end of the 4th qtr.  The Jets offense had the Steelers on their heels at the end of the game.  All the Jets defense needed was one stop.  

They could not get that stop because offensive holding on the Steeler line was not called.  

If you get a chance, go back and watch the last Steeler offensive drive and keep an eye out for all the flagrant holding that the refs didn't call.  They know they get treated REAL good if they call it the right way when the NFL's brand name Steelers are in need...

 

The one call from that game that sticks in my memory all these years later was on the opening drive.  We had them stopped for a 3 and out, but a flag is thrown for illegal contact on Cromartie.  Borderline line call that extended the Steelers drive.  Instead of a 3 and out, the Steelers end up with a 15 play, 9 minute pluus TD drive.  Defense is gassed and never recovers until half time.

Gotta like our chances in that one if that early flag is not thrown.

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, Snook said:

Have a friend who's a Steeler fan and was at the game. We go back and forth at each other all the time about sports and he called me right after the the final whistle to tell me the Jets were robbed. There were others in the stands talking about it.

The Cardinals also got screwed out of their Super Bowl by the Zebras.  They refused to call a block in the back on the TD interception runback just before half time that would have nullified the Steeler TD and as always, the line judge refused to call LOTS of flagrant holds on the Steeler line in the 4th qtr while at the same time they called way lesser holds on the Cardinals LT.

The league brass is queer for the Steelers.  Even more so than they are for Kraft and NE

(FYI.. The use of the word queer is not a homophobic slur.  It has nothing to do with sexual preference and or gender)

[Snook]

10 hours ago, THE BARON said:

The Cardinals also got screwed out of their Super Bowl by the Zebras.  They refused to call a block in the back on the TD interception runback just before half time that would have nullified the Steeler TD and as always, the line judge refused to call LOTS of flagrant holds on the Steeler line in the 4th qtr while at the same time they called way lesser holds on the Cardinals LT.

The league brass is queer for the Steelers.  Even more so than they are for Kraft and NE

(FYI.. The use of the word queer is not a homophobic slur.  It has nothing to do with sexual preference and or gender)

Yes, but Zebras have a huge problem with people comparing them to Refs. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 6/8/2020 at 8:50 AM, Lith said:

The thing about Sanchez back then that made me think he could be special was how he elevated his play late in the game.  He  may have been one of the reassons why the team was trailing late in games, but he was better in those pressure moments late.  He led so many game comebacks in his first two seasons, including this game, on the road, in the playoffs. I was in the stands in Indy for that one.  What a great moment -- especially the throw to Braylon on the sideline to set up the game winning FG.

Was never able to develop the consistency across a 60 minute game, but he had his share of great moments in those first two seasons.

That wasn't really necessarily the case with him either.

Those 4th quarter comebacks & game winning drives? There were several, but the thing is not only were they typically against bad teams or getting credit for others turning it around rather than him. On top of even that, he had more games where he didn't mount a 4th Q comeback / game winning drive (where he had the opportunity to do so) than the other way around. 

Whatever, it was a long time ago. He can't hurt us anymore lol. 

[Bleedin Green]

There was nothing more certain than that this thread would quickly degrade into the classic junk/SAR special.  Because we must all remember, the endless incompetence of Sanchez throughout his entire career was at all times the fault of every other player or coach BUT Sanchez himself, for them not carrying him to even greater levels of success than they had painfully dragged him along to.  Yet they are also somehow deserving of absolutely no credit whatsoever for any success the team did have, as that clearly belongs solely to the mediocre performance of the very same QB we just had to finish hearing could not be expected to ever do anything supposedly on his own, despite having one of the leagues top defense and run games.

Never you mind that those arguments completely contradict each other, beyond their only common theme of endless excuses for a guy who was never that good at his job.  But hey, as long as he wasn't absolutely awful on every single play of the game without a single exception, than obviously he is totally blameless.  I mean, what other QB can ever do such a thing like actually throw an accurate pass, right?

Meanwhile, to the point of this thread, this was a great Jets game, but Sanchez was really the very last reason why, and a low scoring grind out victory against the Manning Colts makes that indisputable for any even slightly coherent argument.  A major step up across the board from defense, a solid run game, and an assist from specials, but the pass game was the greatest unquestioned liability.  Making any argument otherwise is mostly just an insult to the many others who actually earned that victory in spite of it all.

[Vader]

I miss Rex. Is that weird?

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

There was nothing more certain than that this thread would quickly degrade into the classic junk/SAR special.  Because we must all remember, the endless incompetence of Sanchez throughout his entire career was at all times the fault of every other player or coach BUT Sanchez himself, for them not carrying him to even greater levels of success than they had painfully dragged him along to.  Yet they are also somehow deserving of absolutely no credit whatsoever for any success the team did have, as that clearly belongs solely to the mediocre performance of the very same QB we just had to finish hearing could not be expected to ever do anything supposedly on his own, despite having one of the leagues top defense and run games.

Never you mind that those arguments completely contradict each other, beyond their only common theme of endless excuses for a guy who was never that good at his job.  But hey, as long as he wasn't absolutely awful on every single play of the game without a single exception, than obviously he is totally blameless.  I mean, what other QB can ever do such a thing like actually throw an accurate pass, right?

Meanwhile, to the point of this thread, this was a great Jets game, but Sanchez was really the very last reason why, and a low scoring grind out victory against the Manning Colts makes that indisputable for any even slightly coherent argument.  A major step up across the board from defense, a solid run game, and an assist from specials, but the pass game was the greatest unquestioned liability.  Making any argument otherwise is mostly just an insult to the many others who actually earned that victory in spite of it all.

Only Jet fans can praise Brett favre, ryan Fitzpatrick and Ken O'Brien while bashing Mark Sanchez.  We deserve all the crap we've watched since 2011.

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That wasn't really necessarily the case with him either.

Those 4th quarter comebacks & game winning drives? There were several, but the thing is not only were they typically against bad teams or getting credit for others turning it around rather than him. On top of even that, he had more games where he didn't mount a 4th Q comeback / game winning drive (where he had the opportunity to do so) than the other way around. 

Whatever, it was a long time ago. He can't hurt us anymore lol. 

He did it in the playoffs, is that not enough?  I hope Sam can hurt us like mark by giving us multiple SB chances.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Only Jet fans can praise Brett favre, ryan Fitzpatrick and Ken O'Brien while bashing Mark Sanchez.  We deserve all the crap we've watched since 2011.

Sanchez was the rare player who was better in high pressure situations
 

Sanchez played very well against very good defenses on the road in the playoffs.  He self destructed and would be a laughing stock turnover machine during a regular season home game against the bills 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He did it in the playoffs, is that not enough?  I hope Sam can hurt us like mark by giving us multiple SB chances.

Sanchez is what gave us those chances. OK, carry on.

[Bleedin Green]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sanchez was the rare player who was better in high pressure situations
 

Sanchez played very well against very good defenses on the road in the playoffs.  He self destructed and would be a laughing stock turnover machine during a regular season home game against the bills 

That's really kind of a myth though.  Credit where it's due, he had a good performance that I will always appreciate against the Pats in the 2010 playoffs, but otherwise he was average at best in all the other Jets' playoff performances, wins or losses.

Then again, I guess the argument could be made that average-at-best was still "better" for Sanchez, but that doesn't make it particularly good.

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sanchez was the rare player who was better in high pressure situations
 

Sanchez played very well against very good defenses on the road in the playoffs.  He self destructed and would be a laughing stock turnover machine during a regular season home game against the bills 

He was a rookie, he was awful.  It happens.

31 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

That's really kind of a myth though.  Credit where it's due, he had a good performance that I will always appreciate against the Pats in the 2010 playoffs, but otherwise he was average at best in all the other Jets' playoff performances, wins or losses.

Then again, I guess the argument could be made that average-at-best was still "better" for Sanchez, but that doesn't make it particularly good.

He didn't have a bad playoff game.  

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sanchez is what gave us those chances. OK, carry on.

He was a big part of those teams, we had a HOFer the year before with an easier schedule and Brady out for the year and couldn't even make the playoffs.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Vader said:

I miss Rex. Is that weird?

Yes, it is.  It's as if people forget that the league had Rex figured out by late 2011, and how badly he failed in both NY and Buffalo from 2011-2016.

His career record is 61-66 (65-68 when you include the playoff record).  He's a loser and he hasn't been in consideration for a HC job since.  And for good reason.