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Can the New York Jets finally win their division?


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15 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Wow, I'm one of the optimists around here and even I would not predict 12-4.  I think the Division is within our grasp but 12-4....that would floor me.    

Darnold WILL sweep the AFC East in 2020. Stidham, Fitz/Tua, and Allen/Fromm will not be able to keep up with the Jets....shades of GSOT.

6-2 vs the rest.

12-4

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21 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I think we are going to win the division, for four reasons:

1.  Improvements to O-Line and linebacking corps.

2.  Josh Allen has reached his peak and Sam hasn't.

3.  Brady masked shortcomings on Pats, especially on offense.   They're just not going to be that good.

4.  Dolphins a year or two behind in developing their team and they will either be starting Fitz (who is due for a bad year) or a rookie.

 

I’m not a big fan of josh allen. To me he has flashed, but mostly with his legs. When teams know they have to pass, Allen has really struggled. With that being said, Sam and Allen came from the same draft class...I don’t think you can say one has peaked while the other hasn’t. Both are still young and have upside.

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I posted this in the Wesco thread - it's why I am not as worried as some about the WR crew.

I was listening to sports radio up here in VT last night - forget who was on the air - the hosts were discussing the KC and 49rs tight ends and their contracts. They felt the money was way better spent on expensive tight ends, rather than mega expensive wide receivers in terms of bang for buck and salary cap health.

They pointed out that many/most of the recent Super Bowl teams had top tier tight ends, and often no top tier wide receivers. They made the case that versatile pass catching/decent blocking tight ends were more important because of their flexibility to the QB's. I thought about it, and have to say when considering who are the "top QB's", most if not all of them have really good three down tight ends - and just having that option makes the whole offense better.

I'd do the research of the last ten years of SB teams and who the QB/TE pairs were, but I'm supposed to be working .... ;) But when they ran through the list, it was pretty convincing.

SO - we might be better off with Hearndon and Brown and the current TE group - and they may make up for our lack of experience at WR. I think IMHO that the increased time for Sam and better run blocking will help the passing game, and I don't feel the need to trade for an older veteran. Let's play the young guys.

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22 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I just don’t believe we added enough weapons around Darnold. The WR depth seriously worries me. If the OL truly does look miles better than 2019, Darnold still needs some reliable targets and these targets have to stay healthy for the majority of the season. Tough ask.

This is my concern. 

You're asking, can the Jets win the division? The answer is yes, but it will take a whole lot of things falling into place for it to happen. Fant is a decent starting OT. Perriman is the guy from the last four games, not the rest of his career. Becton and Mims look like rookie stars out of the gate. Darnold, of course, taking advantage of those improvements and putting together a top ten type season. It can all happen, but it's a big ask. 

I will say this, though; while fans wanted nothing but help for the offense this offseason, with some even saying that a draft of all OL would suit them just fine, Douglas also made improvements to the defense and special teams. The defense could be very good with Mosley back and Desir holding down one CB spot. I'm thinking Davis is very much in their plans, going big nickel a lot with their sketchy CBs. And if Zuniga and/or Huff can emerge as even a situational pass rusher, that would also be huge. Add in a punter capable of flipping the field, and maybe these two units are helping the offense out enough to win some games. 

The schedule isn't even a factor. Everyone in the division plays basically the same schedule. The Jets just have to take care of their own business, a lot of it. 

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13 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Based on what?

That is my conclusion (you don't have to agree) based on his history and personal observation.  Allen joined a much better team and was able to have his best year at any level last year, including high school.  I just don't think he's going to get much better.  We are talking about a guy who completed 47% of his passes in Junior college and has never completed 60% of his passes at any level, although he came closest last year.  He is a tremendous athlete with a cannon arm but little touch and real accuracy problems.  He could turn out to be elite, but I would guess not.  You can count on one hand the guys who weren't accurate in college and became accurate in the pros.  I just think he has gotten about as good as he is going to be.

Sam, on the other hand, completed more than 65% of his passes in high school and college.  He was a MUCH better college player than Allen was.  He had an horrific supporting cast last year (particularly on the OL) and I see him continuing to get better as the team gets better around him.  Are these subjective opinions?  Absolutely.

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3 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

No. The Bills AND Patsies are much better teams than the Jets. Imagine how silly this is honestly? We're talking and actually trying to debate whether the Jets are good enough to win the division when the Jets actually have a total of THREE players that they drafted coming up for resign in the near future. The Jets organization via piss poor management is an abortion. They've been selecting and playing pure, 100% GARBAGE since about 2008 with very few exceptions.

Moreover, the Jets fan base is actually thinking they'll win the division when the fact is they know NOTHING about these draft picks. No one knows for certain if Joe Douglas is anything more than an extension of Mike Macagnan. Just like John Idzik was an extension of Mike Tannenbaum. Just like Mike Macagnan was an extension of John Idzik. Three GM's that couldn't draft their way out of a wet paper bag. Yet Jets fans actually have the audacity to sit here and think they have the goods to win the division. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such obscene stupidity. 

I was asking but thanks for the input.

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On 6/8/2020 at 10:37 AM, Patriot Killa said:

Are the Bills that good? Are the Patriots truly a 5-6 win team? is Miami that bad? Can we manage with the second hardest schedule in the 2020 season? 

Idk about y’all but I would love to finally see a Jets playoff game this year but I don’t think that the door is as wide open to this possibility as others. Talk some sense into me. Can we win the division and if so, how do we do that?

tenor.gif

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On 6/8/2020 at 11:43 AM, GKnight83 said:

A.  Buffalo will win the division

B.  The Patriots are likely to win more than 5 or 6 games.

C.  I do think Miami is that bad  :)

D.  Anyone expecting the Jets to make the playoffs is a Jet fan.  Just terrible at betting and should probably stay away from bets on the Jets.

Any time a team has the best QB in the division (he will be this year) and possibly the best D - that's a good combination for winning any division. 

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4 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Any time a team has the best QB in the division (he will be this year) and possibly the best D - that's a good combination for winning any division. 

The pass rush and CBs are still the worst in the division. The CBs will also be at a major disadvantage against all the WRs they will play except for games against the 49ers, Raiders and Patriots.

Gregg isn't a better defensive mind than Bill or Sean either.

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The defense and special teams will be good. At the end of the day it comes down to Darnold and the offensive line. If the protection is better and Darnold takes a leap there's no doubt we can win the division, but that's the critical "if." 

Count me among those that thinks Josh Allen has basically peaked. He'll never be an elite passer of the football, we've seen what his game is and always will be. The Bills are probably a better, deeper team than we are top to bottom but I think they're fairly capped by mediocre, inconsistent QB play. That Week 1 game in Buffalo is huge, especially with the 9ers the following week.

The Patriots won't be the Brady era Patriots but it's foolish to count them out or to act like they won't win their share of games. They'll still have a good defense, they'll play smart efficient football. They'll cheat. They're not going to be some pushover. Folks who think they're just going to suck have been deluding themselves into thinking Brady is the only reason that team is good.

Dolphins are actually the real wild card here. They rebuilt on the fly and seem to have done a good job of doing so. They played pretty well for Flores last year. Unclear when Tua will play but if he does I could see a scenario where they're a surprise Cinderella darling in the AFC.

In short, I think all four teams in the AFC East are actually going to be pretty close -- I'd wager all end up somewhere between 6 and 10 wins, hovering around .500 and I'd probably give us the third best odds of winning the division.

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11 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Any time a team has the best QB in the division (he will be this year) and possibly the best D - that's a good combination for winning any division. 

Which is exactly why I think Buffalo wins the division.

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9 hours ago, hamat711 said:

The pass rush and CBs are still the worst in the division. The CBs will also be at a major disadvantage against all the WRs they will play except for games against the 49ers, Raiders and Patriots.

Gregg isn't a better defensive mind than Bill or Sean either.

The CBs won't be too much of a liability against teams with inaccurate passers at QB. 

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The Patriots won't be the Brady era Patriots but it's foolish to count them out or to act like they won't win their share of games. They'll still have a good defense, they'll play smart efficient football. They'll cheat. They're not going to be some pushover. Folks who think they're just going to suck have been deluding themselves into thinking Brady is the only reason that team is good.

I can't understand the level of battered division rival syndrome that would lead someone to believe that the Pats are going to be bad this year, or are going to tank for Trevor. They're no lock to win the division for the first time in a long time, but they're not anywhere near out of it, either. Overheard a Pats fan yesterday talking about a Pats-Bucs Super Bowl. Their fans aren't thinking about tanking. That's, unfortunately, our mentality. 

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36 minutes ago, slats said:

I can't understand the level of battered division rival syndrome that would lead someone to believe that the Pats are going to be bad this year, or are going to tank for Trevor. They're no lock to win the division for the first time in a long time, but they're not anywhere near out of it, either. Overheard a Pats fan yesterday talking about a Pats-Bucs Super Bowl. Their fans aren't thinking about tanking. That's, unfortunately, our mentality. 

Before they choked against the Dolphins in Week 17 they were looking at another 2 seed -- their defense in the first half of the season was historic in its domination (and yes, the fact that they dominated us twice played a role in that.) Unless Stidham is just horrendous beyond belief they should be extremely competitive... If you put a gun to my head and said pick the division winner I think I'd bet on Bill Belichick over Josh Allen.

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9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So.....Miami is winning the division?

 

38618990-cad2-11e9-9bef-87cce56e45df

Sick of this guy. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick was 32 years old the first time he put up a better passer rating than Sam did last year at 22. Fitz was still in college at 22. Not that age or experience matters or anything... 

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Before they choked against the Dolphins in Week 17 they were looking at another 2 seed -- their defense in the first half of the season was historic in its domination (and yes, the fact that they dominated us twice played a role in that.) Unless Stidham is just horrendous beyond belief they should be extremely competitive... If you put a gun to my head and said pick the division winner I think I'd bet on Bill Belichick over Josh Allen.

Bill Belichick has never won a division title without Tom Brady.

18 seasons with Tom Brady: 17 division titles (tied for the other one but lost on tiebreaker)

7 seasons without Tom Brady: ZERO division titles

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28 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Bill Belichick has never won a division title without Tom Brady.

18 seasons with Tom Brady: 17 division titles (tied for the other one but lost on tiebreaker)

7 seasons without Tom Brady: ZERO division titles

I'd love to see how much money you'd be willing to wager that Belichick won't win another AFC East title.

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57 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'd love to see how much money you'd be willing to wager that Belichick won't win another AFC East title.

Maybe he will?  Maybe it's this year but the history tells us otherwise.  Without Brady he's less than Adam Gase.  Good luck rooting for the pats to win the division.

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5 hours ago, slats said:

Sick of this guy. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick was 32 years old the first time he put up a better passer rating than Sam did last year at 22. Fitz was still in college at 22. Not that age or experience matters or anything... 

He keeps hanging around..  playing just well enough to make things interesting for weak teams when he comes in....

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On 6/8/2020 at 10:37 AM, Patriot Killa said:

Are the Bills that good? Are the Patriots truly a 5-6 win team? is Miami that bad? Can we manage with the second hardest schedule in the 2020 season? 

Idk about y’all but I would love to finally see a Jets playoff game this year but I don’t think that the door is as wide open to this possibility as others. Talk some sense into me. Can we win the division and if so, how do we do that?

jetsiv.jpg

Yes.  10-6 and a home playoff game.  

Book it.

SAR I

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7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Horrific schedule and Gase sucks

that said the AFCE winner is probably 10-6 at best so we might have a shot 


Untitled.jpg

Stop reading the anti-Jets bombastic headlines already.  The schedule isn't that tough.

2-2 Open
2-2 Close
6-2 Middle

NYJ AFCEC's.

SAR I

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On 6/8/2020 at 3:30 PM, PepPep said:

The schedule makes it really really hard for me to believe that the Jets can win enough games to be a playoff team or win the division. 

I this is Buffalo's year. Barring a nasty injury to Josh Allen, forcing Matt Barkley into action, this should be their year to take the division, go to the playoffs and make some noise. 

Pats will have some adjustment lag with Stidham. 

Dolphins are still in a rebuild mode. 

I think Buffalo's schedule is the same as ours. This is not the brutal schedule everyone thinks it is - I repeat, the Pats are no longer the Pats of last year. That's what makes our schedule on paper look so tough. They are now two winnable games. Miami - 2 winnable games, Buffalo - two winnable games. Also, it won't take an amazing record to win this division.

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8 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Bill Belichick has never won a division title without Tom Brady.

18 seasons with Tom Brady: 17 division titles (tied for the other one but lost on tiebreaker)

7 seasons without Tom Brady: ZERO division titles

Not only that, the greatest coach ever who is supposedly winning 12 games next year is 9 games under .500 without TB12 at Qb

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2 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

I think Buffalo's schedule is the same as ours. This is not the brutal schedule everyone thinks it is - I repeat, the Pats are no longer the Pats of last year. That's what makes our schedule on paper look so tough. They are now two winnable games. Miami - 2 winnable games, Buffalo - two winnable games. Also, it won't take an amazing record to win this division.

Our schedule is hideous.  Only thing might save us is the away games on the west coast we always lose there won’t be crowds

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13 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

A completely and utterly laughable statement. You're telling on yourself.

Gase has coached 4 seasons, he's 4 games under .500 and has led team to 1 wild card playoff app.

Belichick has coached 7 seasons without Brady.  He's 9 games under .500 and has led team to 1 wild card playoff app.

Tell me again about laughable posts?  It's amazing how those that attack others the most are the least knowledgeable. It's almost like they are trying to deflect from their lack of knowledge.

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Not only that, the greatest coach ever who is supposedly winning 12 games next year is 9 games under .500 without TB12 at Qb

Didn't you hear? He's the greatest of all time, it was all BB and his great defenses that won those super bowls.  Brady is just a system guy, for a system that never won anything without him with BB as a HC or any of his assistants.

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12 hours ago, Losmeister said:

He may simply be quoting the win/loss record pre Brady...  Bill was  41-56

Gase is 30-34 so far...     IDK

He's coached 7+ full seasons without Brady starting. In those 7 seasons he has 5 losing seasons, just 1 wild card playoff appearance and has a 54-63 record.  

His performance without the greatest QB of all time is worse than Gase, Rex or Joe Walton.

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2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Gase has coached 4 seasons, he's 4 games under .500 and has led team to 1 wild card playoff app.

Belichick has coached 7 seasons without Brady.  He's 9 games under .500 and has led team to 1 wild card playoff app.

Tell me again about laughable posts?  It's amazing how those that attack others the most are the least knowledgeable. It's almost like they are trying to deflect from their lack of knowledge.

Didn't you hear? He's the greatest of all time, it was all BB and his great defenses that won those super bowls.  Brady is just a system guy, for a system that never won anything without him with BB as a HC or any of his assistants.

You keep railing about "7 seasons without Brady" like it means anything what happened in the early 90s with the Cleveland Browns. That is literally a lifetime ago. The game couldn't have been more different.

In his last 20 games without Brady the Pats are 14-6, which the relevant number here as it represents what the modern Patriots infrastructure looks like with out him and likely what the Pats are going to look like over the next couple of years.

Bill Belichick has 6 Super Bowls as a head coach, two more as one of the greatest defensive coordinators of all time, and built that dynasty on defense for years and years while Brady was a solid but unspectacular QB. The idea that he is comparable to Adam Gase is the most throughly ludicrous argument I've ever heard and makes you look like an utter fool.

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