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Patriot Killa

Sam Darnold & Lawerence Cager

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Damn talk about no brainer him signing with us 

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Interesting. Another guy to watch closely in camp/preseason this year.

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Very cool. His top competition seems to be Josh Doctson and George Campbell for the big possession receiver. He's got a shot for sure. 

This really isn't a bad WR corps, and with rosters expanding, 7 WR isn't a crazy idea. 

Perriman

Mims

Crowder

Smith

Berrios

Cager

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I mean, it's pretty awful.  lol.  You're really putting a lot of hope in guys that havent proven to be very good.  I really wish they could add a veteran WR to put out there but oh well, hopefully one of these guys has a break out year because Crowder is the only reliable WR of the bunch.  

I do think Griffin/Herndon/Bell help as well but good god, if Crowder got hurt...we better hope Mims hits the ground running.

My thoughts exactly. One more reliable vet would make me feel so much more comfortable going into next season. A lot of early pressure falls on Mims to deliver early if no one else can step up. Cager has every opportunity in the world to take a job as high up as WR3 if he performs well enough. 

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seems like every year we hear about these "friends" wanting to play together.  who was that dontae guy that was eventually cut?  it's a nice story when it works out.  this cager guy seems to have some nice size.  if he has hands, speed, agility, and a brain between his ears he may work out.

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

I mean, it's pretty awful.  lol.  You're really putting a lot of hope in guys that havent proven to be very good.  I really wish they could add a veteran WR to put out there but oh well, hopefully one of these guys has a break out year because Crowder is the only reliable WR of the bunch.  

I do think Griffin/Herndon/Bell help as well but good god, if Crowder got hurt...we better hope Mims hits the ground running.

Agreed.  Way too many question marks with these guys.   If you compare it to previous years, this WR group is improved, but the bar wasn’t exactly set very high with this franchise.  I do think Cager will make the active roster though, he’ll be a nice red zone target and should prove to have some value moving the sticks.  
 

This WR group will need some time though, Mims and Cager are rookies so I doubt they hit ground running day 1.  I have zero idea of what Perriman will bring, his career track record isn’t very good,  Doctson if healthy could be serviceable.  

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8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

seems like every year we hear about these "friends" wanting to play together.  who was that dontae guy that was eventually cut?  it's a nice story when it works out.  this cager guy seems to have some nice size.  if he has hands, speed, agility, and a brain between his ears he may work out.

If you ask me, Cager gets drafted in most draft classes. He’s a real talent and has the size, work ethic and film to prove it. He looked solid on the SEC level with us last year and was able to bail Fromm out on multiple occasions. I’m not saying he’ll be the next great UDFA WR but I do think him & his situation is a bit different from an undersized Deontay Burnett who was limited to the slot and only the slot.

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4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  Way too many question marks with these guys.   If you compare it to previous years, this WR group is improved, but the bar wasn’t exactly set very high with this franchise.  I do think Cager will make the active roster though, he’ll be a nice red zone target and should prove to have some value moving the sticks.  
 

This WR group will need some time though, Mims and Cager are rookies so I doubt they hit ground running day 1.  I have zero idea of what Perriman will bring, his career track record isn’t very good,  Doctson if healthy could be serviceable.  

I'm excited about what Perriman can bring to the table.  If he can truly build off that stretch he had to end the season, he's going to be a fun player to have on the roster.  That's a big IF though.  Docston too.  These guys are big athletic 1st round talent WR's  who are still young with upside.  Just big IF's.  I'm excited about Smith's upside too, he looks like he could be a big play threat.  You and I both love Mims but the transition from Big 12 to the NFL is real and wont be easy.  I think he's an elite enough athlete to have a contribution next season but being a reliable target from day 1 might be a a little unreasonable to expect. 

Being excited is different than being confident.  I'm not confident in any of those things breaking our way and at this point really hope they bring DT back.  I mean, at least bring him into camp just in case.

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1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

If you ask me, Cager gets drafted in most draft classes. He’s a real talent and has the size, work ethic and film to prove it. He looked solid on the SEC level with us last year and was able to bail Fromm out on multiple occasions. I’m not saying he’ll be the next great UDFA WR but I do think him & his situation is a bit different from an undersized Deontay Burnett who was limited to the slot and only the slot.

My only concern with him is his sub-9” hands. That’s teeny-tiny for a 6’4” man, let alone an athlete. 

But it sounds like he has a great support group on the Jets and that’s he’s been preparing to be a pro, himself, for a long time. He has a real opportunity here with the Jets substandard WR corps. Be awesome if he takes advantage of it. 

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Nice to read stories like this, an easy guy to root for. Chemistry can matter with QB/WR combinations.

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52 minutes ago, JiF said:

I mean, it's pretty awful.  lol.  You're really putting a lot of hope in guys that havent proven to be very good.  I really wish they could add a veteran WR to put out there but oh well, hopefully one of these guys has a break out year because Crowder is the only reliable WR of the bunch.  

I do think Griffin/Herndon/Bell help as well but good god, if Crowder got hurt...we better hope Mims hits the ground running.

That's why I said "not bad" lol. You're absolutely right, we're putting a lot of hope in past potential/future potential with this group. 

That said, I think I'm oddly excited because Joe D built a WR roster that seems on paper to be complementary. There are speed guys, there are possession guys, there are slot guys. The guys who work the hardest in training camps will truly earn those spots. 

Blind hope, sure. But I feel better about this WR corps than I have in a long time. 

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2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

'Hey, what's this?' and ask him questions about special teams, the installs, stuff like that so I don't mess it up. 

Good.  If he is making it as a bottom roster WR, that will be key.   That is the reason Wallace Wright played in 53 NFL games (21 his 1st 2 years) while Deontay Burnett played in 6 so far.

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Lawrence Cager, the new Charone Peake. 

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forget high school, didn't we have Sam's receiver from college playing for us? what happened to him?

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5 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

forget high school, didn't we have Sam's receiver from college playing for us? what happened to him?

Gase did not seem to be a fan of Deontay. Deontay has more of the size of a slot guy but is really an outside guy. We cut him at the end of training camp. I quite liked him actually but he did not do much last year either so maybe he is just a bad NFL fit

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It’s extremely hard to put any expectations on an undrafted player, but our WR group is so thin especially with the need for a big bodied receiver. He has a fighting chance to make this team

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12 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

forget high school, didn't we have Sam's receiver from college playing for us? what happened to him?

Big play Tay.  I’m pretty sure Deontay Burnett has signed with the eagles. 

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13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Gase did not seem to be a fan of Deontay. Deontay has more of the size of a slot guy but is really an outside guy. We cut him at the end of training camp. I quite liked him actually but he did not do much last year either so maybe he is just a bad NFL fit

I think the main reason is what I posted above.    He doesn't add a thing on specials. As @Jetlife33 pointed out, he is on the Eagles now and actually played a bit for them.  He was actually active for their playoff game and caught a short pass from McCown.

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2 hours ago, slats said:

My only concern with him is his sub-9” hands. That’s teeny-tiny for a 6’4” man, let alone an athlete. 

But it sounds like he has a great support group on the Jets and that’s he’s been preparing to be a pro, himself, for a long time. He has a real opportunity here with the Jets substandard WR corps. Be awesome if he takes advantage of it. 

I used to have a friend who was a wrestler in college. I played BBall. Guy wrestled at 149 and at times 157. Couldn't hold his booze and one night he took on aanother friend of ours who was 6'3 285 of pure muscle. Wrestler kicked his ass. He wrapped the guy binto a pretze.

 

All this to say I don't care about the size of his hands, just how strong his hands are and how he fights thru being hit at the line and having a CB draped all over him going up for the ball.

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I honestly think Cager sticks here.

He has the size and wins 50/50 balls. If he has chemistry with Sam already, then I think hes here for awhile.

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One thing does not get talked about enough is Sam's ability to throw guys open.  Most QBs have just enough talent to throw when a guy gets open. Sam has the vision and timing/coordination to throw guys open. This aspect of his game is huge. As long as our WRs can break the press man coverage and get off the line, they will see he ball. Plus, if the line can block for more than the paltry half seconds from last year, the routes might have time to open the field. With all of the speed and size that we have accumulated, coupled with both Herndon and Griffin, this team will cause matchup problems. This should provide reasonable opportunities for our young guys to learn whilst the vets can shine. Yes, this is a lot of IFs, but this is a helluva lot better than what we have seen for years.

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Been watching Cager’s limited film, and it really depends on his speed. If he’s a 4.5 guy, he’s going to make the team and really surprise people. If he’s like 4.7, then probably not.

The guy that he kinda reminded me of was Mack Hollins, in terms of physical attributes. He was drafted by the Eagles when Douglas was there, although Hollins was used more as a deep threat in college.

That Georgia offense was ridiculously terrible with Fromm. How they stuck with him over Fields/Eason is beyond me. Cager seemed to get open consistently, and I didn’t see much problem with his hands. There was like one concentration drop.

A bunch of googling says he could have been a star in 3 sports (basketball, baseball) and that he got himself under 4.5 by training, albeit I can’t find any confirmation.

I think there’s a good chance he makes the roster at 5 or 6, especially as a red zone threat at first.

I’ll be honest, this is probably the most excited I’ve been about the WR group since Marshall/Decker/Devin Smith/Enunwa. They aren’t proven, but it’s the speed that excites me because they need defenses to back off.


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20 minutes ago, oc_jet said:

ne thing does not get talked about enough is Sam's ability to throw guys open.  Most QBs have just enough talent to throw when a guy gets open. Sam has the vision and timing/coordination to throw guys open.

i do not recall seeing that much of this...     to me these are tighter window thros that i think i would recall...

anyway...   that being picky...    win4 was saying speed.  what i am thinking is SIZE Mims @ 6'3"  and Cager at 6"5"     

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i do not recall seeing that much of this...     to me these are tighter window thros that i think i would recall...
anyway...   that being picky...    win4 was saying speed.  what i am thinking is SIZE Mims @ 6'3"  and Cager at 6"5"     


I think what they are going for is a size/speed combination, but more of a focus on speed with contested catch.

A big issue for the offense last year was that Anderson was really the only legitimate deep threat. Smith/Berrios have speed but you aren’t dedicating a safety for them. It’s an issue for the defense if you have Mims on one side, Perriman on the other. If the defense stays in single high, there could be an audible to go on the outside for both, and go where the safety isn’t. That’s where the contested catching ability helps with Mims/Perriman. However, I think it’s a basis for Gase’s offense. In Denver, they replaced Decker with Sanders and drafted Latimer (both like sub 4.44 I think). In Miami, he let Landry go, and drafted Carroo in the third. His 40 was 4.5, but I think he was injured, so there was talk that he was a 4.4 guy.

To me at least, I think Gase likes an offense where he can force the defense to play back, at which point the shallow underneath routes become easier to convert.

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2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I used to have a friend who was a wrestler in college. I played BBall. Guy wrestled at 149 and at times 157. Couldn't hold his booze and one night he took on aanother friend of ours who was 6'3 285 of pure muscle. Wrestler kicked his ass. He wrapped the guy binto a pretze.

 

All this to say I don't care about the size of his hands, just how strong his hands are and how he fights thru being hit at the line and having a CB draped all over him going up for the ball.

Bigger hands catch the ball easier. Jerry Rice has a pair of catcher’s mitts. Cager’s hands are unusually small. One of the reasons I liked Ruggs was because of his 10.25” hands. Cager’s are almost 1.5” smaller than the 5’11” Ruggs. That’s kinda crazy. I don’t recall ever talking about an NFL player with sub-9” hands. Is it an issue that can be overcome? Maybe? Either way, it’s a legitimate issue. 

I enjoyed his highlight reels and I’m rooting for him, though. 

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WR is the most unproven position group on the team IMO.  It doesn't mean it will be bad.  In fact, it might also have the most potential of any position group on the team as well.  Perriman was fantastic in a small sample size of games.  Mims was a big weapon in college and there's probably a 50% chance that he could develop into a quality WR1.  But those big if's and hopes.  Crowder continues to be the only guy I really have faith in right now.  He's the go-to.  But what the Jets have going for them in the overall passing game is some talent outside of WR with (a hopefully healthy) Chris Herndon and one of the best pass-catching RBs of the past decade in Le'Veon Bell.

The ingredients are there for a formidable passing attack....but several things have to come together in the right way.

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53 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 Perriman was fantastic in a small sample size of games.  Mims was a big weapon in college and there's probably a 50% chance that he could develop into a quality WR1.

yardage and TD production was impressive, his %52.2 catch rate , not as much.

for all m y doubts i myself suggested he'd be a decent pickup for the 2/3 role while we drasft a #1.

and @slats  do the little Wrs like Crowder have "big" hands? am not so sure the popularity oif this measurement has much meaning.

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1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

yardage and TD production was impressive, his %52.2 catch rate , not as much.

for all m y doubts i myself suggested he'd be a decent pickup for the 2/3 role while we drasft a #1.

and @slats  do the little Wrs like Crowder have "big" hands? am not so sure the popularity oif this measurement has much meaning.

The 5'9" Crowder has the same size hands as the 6'5" Cager. 

Hand size is something of a critical measurement for QBs and WRs. Not sure how popular it is. I'd be willing to bet that it was a factor in Cager going undrafted. 

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