Mangini on First Things First

[Irish Jet]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Then what happened?

Won a grand total of one less game than the great Mangenius in his next three seasons despite the GM terrorising the roster. 

Even Rex at his worst could compete with that loser.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Gee, same with rex ryan the darling of many people on here.

Also 'great coaches' like todd bowles are working so that totally validates things.....and our own coach who has a hilariously bad resume so far in his career.

Bowles got a job handed to him by his best friend and a HC who will do everything in his power to get him another HC gig.  

And given that fresh from being fired Bowles got a DC for his buddy, Mangini was immediately hired as a HC.

So nothing gets validated by Arians hiring Bowles

[sourceworx]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Then what happened?

 

[#27TheDominator]

38 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This is kind of preposterous criticism, IMO. Herm drove the team into the ground, Mangini inherited a mess. He took them to the playoffs 10-6 in his first year -- the fact that team made the playoffs and beat the Pats in Foxboro is an argument that he's a good coach, not a bad one.

If anything screams "good coach!" it is Mangini's 2-5 record agains the Pats.  Especially when you consider that 2 of those games were Favre vs. Cassel.  

[Jet Nut]

32 minutes ago, rangerous said:

remember how he dealt with pete kendall

That would be the Pete Kendall who went behind his HCs back and complained about his practices to the players union?
That Pete Kendall?  Not saying Mangini was right but rat out your HC? How about talking it out with him instead?

[slats]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

 

Rex managed to go 8-8 with this guy! Just one game worse than Mangini and Brett Favre.  

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That would be the Pete Kendall who went behind his HCs back and complained about his practices to the players union?
That Pete Kendall?  Not saying Mangini was right but rat out your HC? How about talking it out with him instead?

I don't think that Mangini has much standing to complain about rats.

[sourceworx]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Rex managed to go 8-8 with this guy! Just one game worse than Mangini and Brett Favre.  

He went 8-8 with Geno Smith throwing to Clyde Gates and David Nelson.

Let that sink in.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think that Mangini has much standing to complain about rats.

LOL, true.  ?

But lets remember that Manginis ratting out was an attempt to improve the teams chances against a cheating bastard in NE.  I obviously get your point but it was at least a little different

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, slats said:

So why can't this amazing talent get any work? 

Career history
As coach:
Cleveland Browns (1995) Offensive assistant Baltimore Ravens (1996) Offensive assistant New York Jets (1997–1999) Defensive assistant New England Patriots (2000–2005) -Defensive backs coach (2000-2004) -Defensive coordinator (2005) New York Jets (2006–2008) Head coach Cleveland Browns (2009–2010) Head coach San Francisco 49ers (2013–2015) -Offensive Consultant (2013) -Tight ends coach (2014) -Defensive coordinator (2015)

Someone should let the league know he's been quite available for some time now. 

You mean like Rex or Herm?

[slats]

8 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

You mean like Rex or Herm?

No, I don't.

Herm's doing just fine at Arizona State and Rex could get a DC job anytime he decided to throw his hat into the ring. In the meantime, he's enjoying broadcast retirement. Mangini was out of football for three years and took a job as an offensive consultant with the 49ers to put food on his table. Harbaugh left for college and left Mangini behind, and he's been out of work ever since. And Mangini's a lot younger than either of those guys, too, he just sucks and everyone but a select few Jet fans seems to know it. 

[Embrace the Suck]

28 minutes ago, slats said:

No, I don't.

Herm's doing just fine at Arizona State and Rex could get a DC job anytime he decided to throw his hat into the ring. In the meantime, he's enjoying broadcast retirement. Mangini was out of football for three years and took a job as an offensive consultant with the 49ers to put food on his table. Harbaugh left for college and left Mangini behind, and he's been out of work ever since. And Mangini's a lot younger than either of those guys, too, he just sucks and everyone but a select few Jet fans seems to know it. 

So college and broadcasting.... Not NFL head coaches... You say Rex could get a DC job any time he wants, but I doubt it as most teams probably don't want to deal with his hot air, his primary talent, which is why he's in broadcasting now as opposed to being a DC. I never said Mangini was the greatest, but I'd take him over Rex or Herm. Of course the players liked Herm and Rex more, players always love a 'players' coach' just like kids prefer their fun parent, at least until things go wrong or they grow up.

[TuscanyTile2]

I'll be the rare guy on here who, to some degree, defends Rex, Mangini and Herm.

I still a Mangini-believer though I can absolutely understand why Slats is not.  I would've absolutely taken him back as HC of the NYJ rather than Gase.  I think I heard that Mangini's issues were somewhat to do with mouthing off to management (which I think got Gase in trouble in Miami, btw).  That plus Mangini was very young when he got here.  I'm guessing he's more mature now.  

As for Rex, I don't buy into the whole "Rex lived off Mangini's players" idea.  A bad coach wouldn't have won 4 road playoff games over the course of 2 seasons, even if he had quality players.  Let's not forget too that he won these games with the Sanchize in his 1st 2 seasons as a pro.  Of course, Rex's teams mostly fell apart after that (and he didn't do well in Buffalo) so I'm not saying that Rex shouldn't have been fired.  Tbh, I thought we stayed with him a couple of seasons too long.  But I'm also not going to trash his tenure here or give all the credit to Mangini.

Lastly, Herm is a fascinating topic of discussion.  I couldn't wait for the Jets to be rid of him when he was here but he did win a couple of playoff games and, were it not for Doug Brien's foul-ups, he would've gotten to the AFC CG.  Plus, he's done a very nice job at ASU.  I'm also a big fan of Herm as a person and  I root for ASU because of him.  Despite having said all of the above, however, I'm still glad he's not our HC anymore.  I think he's better suited for college.

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Mangingi was the best coach this team has had in some time, if ever there was a guy that should have been given more time it was him.  Two winning seasons out of three, drafted well when he was there, teams were disciplined.

The 2008 team was pretty dangerous and about 2/3 way through the year was the best team in the league.

And the 1986 team started out 10-1 with Joe Walton as HC what a coach huh?? Mangini not Tanny gets credit for Brick,Revis and Mangold he also got rid of a HOF center and the best pass rusher the Jets have had since Klecko and Gastineau..

[slats]

15 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

So college and broadcasting.... Not NFL head coaches... You say Rex could get a DC job any time he wants, but I doubt it as most teams probably don't want to deal with his hot air, his primary talent, which is why he's in broadcasting now as opposed to being a DC. I never said Mangini was the greatest, but I'd take him over Rex or Herm. Of course the players liked Herm and Rex more, players always love a 'players' coach' just like kids prefer their fun parent, at least until things go wrong or they grow up.

Listen, if your best defense of Eric Mangini is that he's just having a little more trouble than Rex or Herm to get work, you're basically admitting to me that he sucks. If not for Jim Harbaugh, Mangini would've been out of football for the last decade instead of just the last five years. It has nothing to do with him being some tough guy coach, and everything to do with him just not being a good coach. 

Far and away the most overrated guy associated with this team by this fan base. The dude is terrible. 

[Snell41]

Who the bell is the first guy talking? What a loudmouth imbecile.


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[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

In order for Rex fans to believe that Rex was good, they have to sell you on Mangini being bad. It’s the centerpiece of Rex Ryan mythology 

Actually, it is the opposite.  The better that you think Mangini was, the more impressive it should be that Rex was able to take the team he underperformed with so much further.  People don't put Mangini down to prop up Rex.  They put Mangini down because he sucks.

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If Rex’s wife’s feet had ovaries, he’d have several illegitimate bastard sons all named Tyrod.

Isn't that the sub-plot of  Me, Myself and Irene? 

[jeremy2020]

first things first, what the F is a Man Genie?

[Sonny Werblin]

4 hours ago, Savage69 said:

And the  QB he couldn't win with took the 1-15 Fins to the playoffs. Mangini couldn't win in a year when Brady was out..LOL

WITH Brett Favre at QB no less!

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Listen, if your best defense of Eric Mangini is that he's just having a little more trouble than Rex or Herm to get work, you're basically admitting to me that he sucks. If not for Jim Harbaugh, Mangini would've been out of football for the last decade instead of just the last five years. It has nothing to do with him being some tough guy coach, and everything to do with him just not being a good coach. 

Far and away the most overrated guy associated with this team by this fan base. The dude is terrible. 

Plenty of college jobs out there if one wanted to coach college. Herm loves the sport and wanted to stay in the game so he coaches at the college level now. Good for him as I think his persona is perfect for the college game. Maybe Mangini has no interest in coaching college. I won't argue his arrival was a bit ridiculous coming from the pats*. I remember him being on the sopranos and they were kissing his rear. Rex gets work on TV because he's made for TV in that he's loud and shameless, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count as a coaching job.

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, nico002 said:

Yea he only drafted three of the 10 best players in franchise history and gave Rex the roster that went to back to back afccg

Mike Tannenbaum drafted those players.

How come Eric couldn't win with that roster with a HOF QB?

If Eric really drafted those guys and made those trades to get those picks who doesn't he have a job in a front office somewhere?  Why didn't he leave a good browns roster for the next coach?

[nico002]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Mike Tannenbaum drafted those players.

How come Eric couldn't win with that roster with a HOF QB?

If Eric really drafted those guys and made those trades to get those picks who doesn't he have a job in a front office somewhere?  Why didn't he leave a good browns roster for the next coach?

He did, we had the best team in the NFL by week 10. Then Farve got hurt 

[nyjunc]

45 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He did, we had the best team in the NFL by week 10. Then Farve got hurt 

Ok??. Because we beat the Cassell playoff-less Pats and the Titans who lost 3 of last 6?

Favre didn't get hurt vs Denver, he was hurt earlier that season. He made his career playing through anything, he just didn't want to be here.

I don't think Eric was a bad coach but rex was obviously much better

[UntouchableCrew]

5 hours ago, slats said:

Would be if he beat the Patriots in the playoffs, but he lost his only playoff game. 

Herm had the Jets at 10-6 the year before he got fired. He went 4-12 with Brooks Bollinger as his primary QB. Mangini went 4-12 with Pennington and Clemens and held onto his job. He shouldn't've. 

I'm not even arguing that Magnini was a good coach as much as that using the 2006 Jets as an example of him being a bad coach is silly. That team drastically overachieved, IMHO. They weren't talented.

I also agree that the fact that Mangini couldn't win with a "Mangini built team" was an indictment of him as coach but I still strongly support the notion that he had a large hand in building the best Jets teams of the modern era.

Tannenbaum was the GM but I find it hard to believe the massive disparity in talent acquisition between the Mangini/Tannebaum years and the Rex/Tannebaum years is a coincidence.

With Mangini we drafted or acquired Darrelle Revis, David Harris, Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, Dustin Keller, Leon Washington, Brad Smith etc. and saw guys like Jerricho Cotchery and Kerry Rhodes ascend into key roles. Outside of Gholston and Schlegel there weren't many whiffs.

Under Rex we drafted guys like Mark Sanchez, Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Vlad Duccasse, and Stephen Hill, overpaid for Bart Scott and had the FAs that did work out temporarily flame out badly (Santonio Holmes.)

It's fair to say Mangini was a bad coach but I don't get how people can dismiss the role he played in building those 09-10 teams.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

If anything screams "good coach!" it is Mangini's 2-5 record agains the Pats.  Especially when you consider that 2 of those games were Favre vs. Cassel.  

I mean every Jets coach has had an abysmal record against the Pats. I was just pointing out that a scrappy, clearly overachieving 2006 team beating the Pats in Foxboro is a bad example of Mangini being a bad coach. That team had no business being 10-6.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean every Jets coach has had an abysmal record against the Pats. I was just pointing out that a scrappy, clearly overachieving 2006 team beating the Pats in Foxboro is a bad example of Mangini being a bad coach. That team had no business being 10-6.

The Jets, specifically Chad Pennington , were healthy in 2006.  The reason they sucked in 2005 was they played 5 different QBs among a million other injuries.

Every Jets coach has had an abysmal record against Brady.  

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not even arguing that Magnini was a good coach as much as that using the 2006 Jets as an example of him being a bad coach is silly. That team drastically overachieved, IMHO. They weren't talented.

I also agree that the fact that Mangini couldn't win with a "Mangini built team" was an indictment of him as coach but I still strongly support the notion that he had a large hand in building the best Jets teams of the modern era.

Tannenbaum was the GM but I find it hard to believe the massive disparity in talent acquisition between the Mangini/Tannebaum years and the Rex/Tannebaum years is a coincidence.

With Mangini we drafted or acquired Darrelle Revis, David Harris, Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, Dustin Keller, Leon Washington, Brad Smith etc. and saw guys like Jerricho Cotchery and Kerry Rhodes ascend into key roles. Outside of Gholston and Schlegel there weren't many whiffs.

Under Rex we drafted guys like Mark Sanchez, Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Vlad Duccasse, and Stephen Hill, overpaid for Bart Scott and had the FAs that did work out temporarily flame out badly (Santonio Holmes.)

It's fair to say Mangini was a bad coach but I don't get how people can dismiss the role he played in building those 09-10 teams.

 

If you give mangini credit for the drafts why couldn't he duplicate it in Cleveland?  Why did tannenbaum have success without Eric and Eric didn't have success without Tannenbaum?

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Plenty of college jobs out there if one wanted to coach college. Herm loves the sport and wanted to stay in the game so he coaches at the college level now. Good for him as I think his persona is perfect for the college game. Maybe Mangini has no interest in coaching college. I won't argue his arrival was a bit ridiculous coming from the pats*. I remember him being on the sopranos and they were kissing his rear. Rex gets work on TV because he's made for TV in that he's loud and shameless, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count as a coaching job.

I actually think Herm would be a good hire for an NFL team right now. 

[Savage69]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The Jets, specifically Chad Pennington , were healthy in 2006.  The reason they sucked in 2005 was they played 5 different QBs among a million other injuries.

Every Jets coach has had an abysmal record against Brady.  

True but only one knocked them out of the playoffs in their house..

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

If you give mangini credit for the drafts why couldn't he duplicate it in Cleveland?  Why did tannenbaum have success without Eric and Eric didn't have success without Tannenbaum?

Wasnt Holmgren running the draft in Cleveland?

[nico002]

7 hours ago, slats said:

Fan fiction. 

Great argument

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

He did, we had the best team in the NFL by week 10. Then Farve got hurt 

People throw this nonsense around all the time:

1.  Ooooh week 10!

2. Have you checked their strength of schedule?  Laughable.  They played 6 games against teams that finished the year with winning records and 4 of those games were against the Chad/Cassel Dolphins/Pats.  They played the teams that drafted 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, 11 (twice), and 12.

3. Favre injury is a mirage.  Nobody can say exactly when he hurt it and there were comments that he hurt it considerably earlier.  It is a convenient excuse for sucking down the stretch.

4.  I assume you meant week 11.  After that game they were sitting at 8-3 and had just taken out the previously undefeated Titans on the road. The Titans were at 10-1.  Thing is, they weren't even the best team in their own stadium.  The Giants were the reigning SB champs and were 10-1.  There were other teams sitting at 8-3, like the Panthers and eventual champion Steelers.  I know you want to tell me that the Jets were better than the Pats and Titans because the Jets beat them head to head, but they also lost to the Pats, the Jamarcus Russell/Lane Kiffin Raiders (5-11) and were completely dismantled by the Chargers (8-8).  Maybe head to head isn't the way you want to go.

I did wonder if Mangini was canned to early.  My honest opinion is that he was headed towards being a good teambuilder.  When he signed on for Favre he signed his own death warrant.  I guess that his ego made him think it could work, but the fact is the Favre persona - gunslinger, carpetbagger that didn't want to be there, won't listen to the coaches and always going off-script - completely went away from what Mangini stood for.  Once he accepted the bigger than the team Favre he had to win or get out.  Combine the not winning with the confluence of events that should have made it easy (Brady misses the year, Penny to the 1-15 Dolphins, ) and he deserved to be a goner.  They won 9 games and they played 5 against teams that finished the year with 5 wins or fewer.

[nyjunc]

54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Wasnt Holmgren running the draft in Cleveland?

I'm not sure but mangini took over in 09 and holmgren was hired in 2010 and when you have a personnel genius like Eric mangini I would think holmgren leaned on him?

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

In order for Rex fans to believe that Rex was good, they have to sell you on Mangini being bad. It’s the centerpiece of Rex Ryan mythology 

Yep.  I'm OK with people saying Mangini sucked as long as they admit Rex sucked too.  Or, if they want to say Rex was good, they have to admit his success can largely be attributed to the Mangini drafts that brought us Revis, Mangold, Harris and Ferguson.

Fail to agree to these terms, and then you're forced to try to reconcile why Tannenbaum's drafts suddenly took a downturn when Mangini left and Rex arrived.  We went from drafting 4 all-time great Jets under Tangini to drafting 0 greats under TannenRex, despite more draft years under the latter duo.

Lots of mental gymnastics are needed to say Rex was awesome and Mangini sucked.  

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, slats said:

I'm not arguing that Rex is great. I'm arguing that Mangini sucks worse. He couldn't win with the team he allegedly built with Pennington or Favre at QB, but Rex took it and won with Mark ****ing Sanchez. 

Mangini only managed to sniff a one & out with Herm's team. 

"Herm's team."

lol.