Mangini on First Things First

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The real problem was Woody not Rex.  And he’s still the Jets biggest problem 
 

And if Rex wanted a defensive coordinator job he could get one fairly easily. Mangini can’t get a job was waterboy in the nfl

What could Woody have done differently during the Rex regime to make Rex not a disaster? 

[#27TheDominator]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

That team had beaten the pats, then totally dismantled the previously unbeaten league darlings Tennessee.  They were the best team in the league at 8-3 then favre got hurt and yes mangini and sutton spit the bit on defense.

Rex took that team and had two good years that could have been better and then fell on his ass after that, then we got bowles who was awful.  Mangini had two decent years out of three and the team at least was disciplined.

Yep.  The 8-3 Jets were much better than the 10-1 defending super bowl champs!

How could 2009 and 2010 have been better?  They had ******* Sanchez at QB.  It was a miracle that they made it as far as they did.

[nico002]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yep.  The 8-3 Jets were much better than the 10-1 defending super bowl champs!

How could 2009 and 2010 have been better?  They had ******* Sanchez at QB.  It was a miracle that they made it as far as they did.

You’re getting stuck on irrelevant details, 1,2,3,5 doesn’t matter... the Jets were GOOD that year. Sanchez was 2x the QB noodle was by that point in their careers.

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Ah, that savvy Mangini.  He traded from 5 to 17 (a drop worth 750 points) for #52 (worth 380).  The deficit is worth #52 overall.  To make up for it?  Mangini accepted Keyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, and the dealbreaker, Abram Elam.  Would you trade a mid-second for those guys?   Trader Mangini wasn't done.  He moved down two slots with the Bucs, a 75 point deficit, for a 6th worth 26.6.  Then he dropped another 2 slots with the Eagles, another 75 point drop, for a 6th worth 13. 

Passing on Sanchez and Freeman (and even Maclin) for Mack certainly seems to be a smart move, but netting Coleman, Ratliff, Elam, David Veikune, Coye Francies and Clemson RB James Davis to move from 5 to 21?  That is some ******* horrific sh*t right there.  That is two journeymen low-level vet minimum starters to drop from 5 to 21.  I guess you could say it was a "culture" move.  Mangini needed his choirboys, so he traded for the guy kicked out of Notre Dame after his sexual assault conviction.

The only part of his tenure in Cleveland works for the pro-Mangini crowd is that his crappy 2009 draft did have some eerie similarities to the Jets 2006 draft.  The trade downs (we called him Trader Mike) the picking of "the greatest center prospect in the last 25 years,"  maybe Veikune hunted boar with a knife.  He could have probably done better not getting cute and taking Crabtree or Maclin.  Then he would have had an excellent shot Wood or Unger later.  Instead, they took Mack and then wasted 2nds on Robiskie and Massaquoi.  I suppose taking Heyward-Bey would have been worse, but that was a Raiders speed thing.

No doubt Mangini put too much emphasis on character and the return he got in trading down for Mack sucked, but he did get the right player and he upgraded the culture on the roster. At the same time,  they hired Mike Holmgren in a poorly defined team president/overseer role, who  immediately rat****ed Mangini when he got the itch to take over as coach. It was a mess, top to bottom. Holmgren ended up drafting Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, and Seneca Wallace. 

 

For reference: https://www.nfl.com/_amp/mike-holmgren-i-should-have-coached-the-browns-0ap2000000342551

 

[CTM]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

No doubt Mangini put too much emphasis on character and the return he got in trading down for Mack sucked, but he did get the right player and he upgraded the culture on the roster. At the same time,  they hired Mike Holmgren in a poorly defined team president/overseer role, who  immediately rat****ed Mangini when he got the itch to take over as coach. It was a mess, top to bottom. Holmgren ended up drafting Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, and Seneca Wallace. 

 

For reference: https://www.nfl.com/_amp/mike-holmgren-i-should-have-coached-the-browns-0ap2000000342551

 

T0ms cream team regime of Mangini / Idzik goes a long way toward explaining why he sucks 

Dude still devoting hours of his life to defending the honor of abject failures in their respective roles.

I wish it was just Rex trolling but its not 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

T0ms cream team regime of Mangini / Idzik goes a long way toward explaining why he sucks 

Dude still devoting hours of his life to defending the honor of abject failures in their respective roles.

I wish it was just Rex trolling but its not 

He’s not wrong, friends

[#27TheDominator]

13 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Except the Browns had a 1st rd pick on their roster from 2007 Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson who made the Pro Bowl in 2007 when he took the Browns to a 10-6 season. He didn't need a QB..

 

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Any team that had Brady Quinn at QB needed a QB. In fact, Mangini started Colt McCoy and someone named Seneca Wallace the following year. Point being, he wouldn’t have drafted Sanchez regardless.

I hate Shane's opinions as much as the next guy, but he has a point.  The Browns certainly were unsure at QB.  If Anderson were any good they wouldn't have had Quinn.  In his "good" year Anderson threw 19 INTs and had a 56% completion rate.  Brady Quinn was worse.  OTOH, Mangini's complete mishandling of QB situations is a big part of how he failed as a coach and ended up out of the league

 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

You’re getting stuck on irrelevant details, 1,2,3,5 doesn’t matter... the Jets were GOOD that year. Sanchez was 2x the QB noodle was by that point in their careers.

GOOD?  They lost to Jamarcus Russell when Favre was healthy.  If good means better than average, then yes, at some points they were good.  If good is supposed to mean GOOD?  You both claimed best team in football.  Nope.  You want to claim top 5?  Eh. People think they were good because they beat the 10-0 Titans.  They were pretty average.  You can't use head-to-head to determine how good a team is.  In 2012, Rex dismantled the Andrew Luck Colts. Absolutely rolled them.  Were the Jets better than the 11-5 Colts?  I don't think so, neither does anybody else. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Your promotion of this twit is one of the main reasons for his popularity here. I'm surprised Darrell Bevell, Matt Leinart, and Robert Gallery don't have bigger followings. You say it, @Jetsfan80 publishes a copy & paste manifesto, and it goes right into JN lore. It's disgusting and it needs to stop. 

 

Woah woah woah woah.  

I did NOT want Matt Leinart.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yet, you keep touting Adam Gase for his one saving grace.  Knifing the GM in the span of 6 months. 

The Johnson's could never dream to hire a GM the caliber of Joe Douglas on their own.

So, yes, for getting rid of Macc and bringing us Douglas, I will be eternally grateful.  For that I am willing to give him until 2022 to continue to change the culture here, and then he can GTFO.  

[Lurker89]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 Ultimately, he knifed three different GMs in the span of five years. 

I respect anyone with those kinds of knife skills...  

That's one of the few of Gase's traits I like ....that knife job on Mac was spectacular.

[Lizard King]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:16 AM, slats said:

Fan fiction. 

Not really. You have to then say that Tannenbaum would have been the architect of those drafts which after the loss of Mangini, proved to be completely untrue. 

[Lizard King]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:28 AM, slats said:

Correct.

Mangini, who allegedly built the team Rex took to back-back AFCCGs, only managed to get to the playoffs once with what I can only assume would be considered the team that Herm built. His second year was awful, and his third year things only looked good after Favre told Brian Schottenheimer to STFU and played offense his way. Then he got hurt, and this amazing team that Mangini built finished 1-4 to miss the playoffs. 

I don't buy this black-balled nonsense. If the guy was good, he'd have a job. Crack addicts have fewer holes in their resume than this guy. 

Again. You can have an excellent eye for talent and not be a good coach. There’s a reason that Belichick is in the same air as Lombardi. 

[Lizard King]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:42 AM, Beerfish said:

Mangingi was the best coach this team has had in some time, if ever there was a guy that should have been given more time it was him.  Two winning seasons out of three, drafted well when he was there, teams were disciplined.

The 2008 team was pretty dangerous and about 2/3 way through the year was the best team in the league.

100%! It was a death by drive by Favre’ing. 

tannenbaum literally drafted a lifeguard at qb the following year and almost got us to the Super Bowl. It was all the pieces mangini laid that made that happen. As soon as tannenbaum didn’t have a football person in the room the entire operation fell apart as trader mike was born, overpaying for other teams scouting abilities and taking victory laps in Times Square (which admittedly was awesome and I stayed late at the office to go see. )

[Lizard King]

Tannenbaum was never, ever meant to be a player evaluator. He was a cap architect. A cba accountant. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

Not really. You have to then say that Tannenbaum would have been the architect of those drafts which after the loss of Mangini, proved to be completely untrue. 

 

1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

Again. You can have an excellent eye for talent and not be a good coach. There’s a reason that Belichick is in the same air as Lombardi. 

Exactly this is the fan fiction. You're a fan, and you're making things up. 

Nothing is proven anywhere, this is just some weird Jet fan perception, unable to give any credit to Tannenbaum and instead giving it to Mangini, who's never shown any ability to acquire talent outside of those two drafts. The bad drafts in Cleveland get attributed to Holmgren, for some inexplicable reason, as he's had far more success in this league than Mangini has. Hell, Tannenbaum's had more success. So has Herm, Rex, and ****ing Adam Gase. But for some reason, in some fans minds, Eric Mangini is the guy who found those guys -not, you know, Gholston and the Boar Hunter- and yet he's never again been in a position to select players in a draft despite this unmistakable talent finding talent that you believe him to have. 

It's a total fabrication.

I get it. I was there that first year of Mangenius, too. I was hoping we had something. But we didn't. Mangini was, simply put, an awful coach. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

The bad drafts in Cleveland get attributed to Holmgren

Mangini was fired after the 2010 season and was around for two drafts. They picked Alex Mack in 2009 and Hoe Haden in 2010. Holmgren picked NT Phil Taylor in his first post-Mangini draft, then Trent Richardson and Brandon Richardson in the first in 2012. Holmgren was fired in November of 2012.

[Savage69]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

 

Exactly this is the fan fiction. You're a fan, and you're making things up. 

Nothing is proven anywhere, this is just some weird Jet fan perception, unable to give any credit to Tannenbaum and instead giving it to Mangini, who's never shown any ability to acquire talent outside of those two drafts. The bad drafts in Cleveland get attributed to Holmgren, for some inexplicable reason, as he's had far more success in this league than Mangini has. Hell, Tannenbaum's had more success. So has Herm, Rex, and ****ing Adam Gase. But for some reason, in some fans minds, Eric Mangini is the guy who found those guys -not, you know, Gholston and the Boar Hunter- and yet he's never again been in a position to select players in a draft despite this unmistakable talent finding talent that you believe him to have. 

It's a total fabrication.

I get it. I was there that first year of Mangenius, too. I was hoping we had something. But we didn't. Mangini was, simply put, an awful coach. 

Fans that love Mangini who never won a playoff game must have liked Kotite who had a winning record with the Eagles and has won a playoff game..LOL

[UntouchableCrew]

On 6/25/2020 at 4:11 PM, nyjunc said:

If you give mangini credit for the drafts why couldn't he duplicate it in Cleveland?  Why did tannenbaum have success without Eric and Eric didn't have success without Tannenbaum?

Tannenbaum didn't have success without Mangini. As soon as Mangini left he stoped drafting well, traded for Tebow and was fired.

It's somewhat fair that Mangini didn't have success with the Browns -- but then again, they're the Browns. Literally nobody has had success with that organization since it was re-created in 1999.

[UntouchableCrew]

On 6/25/2020 at 4:10 PM, nyjunc said:

The Jets, specifically Chad Pennington , were healthy in 2006.  The reason they sucked in 2005 was they played 5 different QBs among a million other injuries.

Every Jets coach has had an abysmal record against Brady.  

I mean go back and look at that 2006 roster. We had, what Kevan Barlow at RB1? That team definitely overachieved.

[Philc1]

On 6/26/2020 at 7:52 AM, T0mShane said:

What could Woody have done differently during the Rex regime to make Rex not a disaster? 

1)Sign Revis in 2014 instead of cheaping out with $30+ million in cap room

2) no Tebow trade in 2012.  Let the jets draft Wilson instead of Stephen Hill which is what Bradway and Rex wanted

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean go back and look at that 2006 roster. We had, what Kevan Barlow at RB1? That team definitely overachieved.

Mangini was hot garbage after 2006.  Went 4-12 the following season and then no contingency plan for Favre getting injured 2 years later.  And then he stunk it up in Cleveland - I mean people bash Rex for going 8-8 with the bills Mangini couldn’t sniff .500 in Cleveland 

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Fans that love Mangini who never won a playoff game must have liked Kotite who had a winning record with the Eagles and has won a playoff game..LOL

Parcells won with Kotite’s players.  Chrebet, Keyshawn, Neil O’Donnel

[TuscanyTile2]

On 6/25/2020 at 12:34 PM, slats said:

Listen, if your best defense of Eric Mangini is that he's just having a little more trouble than Rex or Herm to get work, you're basically admitting to me that he sucks. If not for Jim Harbaugh, Mangini would've been out of football for the last decade instead of just the last five years. It has nothing to do with him being some tough guy coach, and everything to do with him just not being a good coach. 

Far and away the most overrated guy associated with this team by this fan base. The dude is terrible. 

If you had a choice of Mangini vs Gase as HC of the NYJ, which would you pick?

[nyjunc]

17 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Tannenbaum didn't have success without Mangini. As soon as Mangini left he stoped drafting well, traded for Tebow and was fired.

It's somewhat fair that Mangini didn't have success with the Browns -- but then again, they're the Browns. Literally nobody has had success with that organization since it was re-created in 1999.

Tannenbaum put together back to back AFC Championship Game teams then made the playoffs in Miami.  Mangini without Tannenbaum lasted 2 awful years in Cleveland.

17 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean go back and look at that 2006 roster. We had, what Kevan Barlow at RB1? That team definitely overachieved.

It was all about Chad's health, he was healthy and we made the playoffs.  Barlow was acquired late but Leon Washington stepped up as a rookie.

I don't think overall Eric did a bad job and I wasn't happy when they fired him but looking back it was the right move.  I don't think we made either Championship Game if he was still the coach.

[nyjunc]

12 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Parcells won with Kotite’s players.  Chrebet, Keyshawn, Neil O’Donnel

I always love when people try to take credit away from a coach, any coach that comes in inherits a team.  Parcells won with Kotite/Steinberg players, Herm won with 3 different Jets teams but inherited Parcells/Kotite guys, etc ..

[nyjunc]

12 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Mangini was hot garbage after 2006.  Went 4-12 the following season and then no contingency plan for Favre getting injured 2 years later.  And then he stunk it up in Cleveland - I mean people bash Rex for going 8-8 with the bills Mangini couldn’t sniff .500 in Cleveland 

Favre was fine, the injury was an excuse.

In 07 Chad got hurt again and the OL was awful. They fixed the OL in 08 but got favre because they were tired of Chad injuries. Unfortunately it cost us a division title and maybe more.

[UntouchableCrew]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Tannenbaum put together back to back AFC Championship Game teams then made the playoffs in Miami.  Mangini without Tannenbaum lasted 2 awful years in Cleveland.

The entire point of the discussion is that Tannenbaum put those teams together... With Mangini. That's the whole discussion. And if we're going to point out Mangini's failed tenure with the Browns, Tannanbaum's failed tenure with the Dolphins is obviously just as relevant.

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

It was all about Chad's health, he was healthy and we made the playoffs.  Barlow was acquired late but Leon Washington stepped up as a rookie.

I don't think overall Eric did a bad job and I wasn't happy when they fired him but looking back it was the right move.  I don't think we made either Championship Game if he was still the coach.

Chad's entire career was about his health.

I agree with the second point. Rex definitely took that team to another level. But it's clear the the teams drafting, FA moves, and overall talent acquisition was better under Mangini pointing to a glaring problem with Tannenbaum and Rex. Tannenbaum clearly relied on and catered to his coach in terms of players to go after (bean counter) and Rex clearly sucked at that whereas Mangini seemingly did a pretty good job.

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I always love when people try to take credit away from a coach, any coach that comes in inherits a team.  Parcells won with Kotite/Steinberg players, Herm won with 3 different Jets teams but inherited Parcells/Kotite guys, etc ..

And Belichick in 2001 won with Pete Carroll’s team

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Favre was fine, the injury was an excuse.

In 07 Chad got hurt again and the OL was awful. They fixed the OL in 08 but got favre because they were tired of Chad injuries. Unfortunately it cost us a division title and maybe more.

2008 we could have won it all but we had no backup qb.  Same thing happened in ‘99 when Bill got rid of Foley because he would not take a paycut and we ended up with Rick friggin Mirer once Vinny got hurt

[Philc1]

13 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If you had a choice of Mangini vs Gase as HC of the NYJ, which would you pick?

They’re the same

[slats]

14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If you had a choice of Mangini vs Gase as HC of the NYJ, which would you pick?

Gase. He might suck, but I'm far more certain that Mangini sucks. The league feels similarly. 

[jetstream23]

On 6/25/2020 at 7:00 AM, T0mShane said:

Top three franchise savior after Weeb and Parcells. That he got cut off at the knees after three years was a travesty.

But that's how the Jets work.  They swing from one extreme to another like a pendulum.

• Herm Edwards and his BBQs, player loyalty and "Camp Herm" was too soft.  Enter Mangini.
• Mangini was too tough, a tyrant, "it's a process", players don't talk to the media, etc.  Enter Rex Ryan.
• All personality. "We're going to the Super Bowl,"  everyone loves playing for Rex, Hard Knocks. Enter Todd Bowles.
• No personality, never too high or too low.  Rookie Head Coach, players comfortable, can't develop a QB.  Enter Adam Gase.
• Married to his scheme, hard ass, do players like him? HC experience, Offense, "QB whisperer", etc.

 

[TNJet]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:07 AM, slats said:

He looks how he coached, crappy. 

Jet fans obsession with this guy never ceases to amaze me. 

He did have a great eye for talent. He built Rex's success.

[slats]

31 minutes ago, TNJet said:

He did have a great eye for talent. He built Rex's success.

This is nonsense, IMHO. And I'm tired of reading it. 

Dude's outta football for a reason. No one's ever considered putting him in a front office job. It's just some weird Jet fan mythology.