AFJF Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 47 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: But to just decide that they dont like him because no one is ripping him is bizarre Theres no indication that there is anything close to a problem other than to do a Manish I can see why folks who see Gase as an offensive innovator who is the future of the NFL would want to ignore Cromartie speaking out on behalf of Jamal because it’s a bad look for their guy. Thing is, having seen good leadership up close and personal for many years, Gase’s flippant reactions to his injured players made me come to the conclusion on my own that guys wouldn’t exactly be inspired by that and I’ve said as much several times. A lot of people don’t understand this concept because they’ve never been a good leader themselves or seen a good leader in action. (I’ve experienced the latter in combat zones and in peace time). Leadership matters and part of leading is taking an interest in your people. My stance is that Gase strikes me as a poor leader who takes no interest in his guys while they’re hurt. He points fingers when things go wrong. His players have been critical of him in the past, two players have filed grievances against the team with him at the helm, Cromartie talked to Adams and came away saying Gase doesn’t care. So even if we ignore Manish, it’s blind homerism to say there are no red flags regarding Gase’s ability to lead. Hopefully this is an area of strength for Joe D and he can sit Gase down and mentor him, explaining the importance of taking two seconds out of his day to shake a guy’s hand while he’s rehabbing and ask how he’s coming along. I’ve seen people fired for not taking the time to make a small gesture to show you take an interest in somebody whom you’re expected to lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, AFJF said: A lot of people don’t understand this concept because they’ve never been a good leader themselves or seen a good leader in action. We have entered the “I played Single-A baseball” zone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, T0mShane said: We have entered the “I played Single-A baseball” zone. Read the words very closely. I said I witnessed it. I never said I did it. Huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, AFJF said: Read the words very closely. I said I witnessed it. I never said I did it. Huge difference. Let’s also do a close reading of Cromartie’s Gase comment: Question: If this was the entire criticism of Gase that Cro gleaned from his call with Adams—that he “doesn’t care” about Adams’ contract situation—isn’r it an overreaction to say that Gase, when compared to George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower, comes up lacking in the leadership department? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 hours ago, AFJF said: I can see why folks who see Gase as an offensive innovator who is the future of the NFL would want to ignore Cromartie speaking out on behalf of Jamal because it’s a bad look for their guy. Thing is, having seen good leadership up close and personal for many years, Gase’s flippant reactions to his injured players made me come to the conclusion on my own that guys wouldn’t exactly be inspired by that and I’ve said as much several times. A lot of people don’t understand this concept because they’ve never been a good leader themselves or seen a good leader in action. (I’ve experienced the latter in combat zones and in peace time). Leadership matters and part of leading is taking an interest in your people. My stance is that Gase strikes me as a poor leader who takes no interest in his guys while they’re hurt. He points fingers when things go wrong. His players have been critical of him in the past, two players have filed grievances against the team with him at the helm, Cromartie talked to Adams and came away saying Gase doesn’t care. So even if we ignore Manish, it’s blind homerism to say there are no red flags regarding Gase’s ability to lead. Hopefully this is an area of strength for Joe D and he can sit Gase down and mentor him, explaining the importance of taking two seconds out of his day to shake a guy’s hand while he’s rehabbing and ask how he’s coming along. I’ve seen people fired for not taking the time to make a small gesture to show you take an interest in somebody whom you’re expected to lead. Theres a whole lot of words here that are either over the top and self serving , like the first paragraph or just plain crystal ball material. Coaches leave and players complain. Players don't like certain coaches. Happens all the time and who cares. You've seen plenty of good leaders in action. I bet none think their jobs are to be loved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Theres a whole lot of words here that are either over the top and self serving , like the first paragraph or just plain crystal ball material. Oaches leave and players complain. Players don't like certain coaches. Happens and who cares. You've seen plenty of good leaders in action. I bet none think their jobs are to be loved. Incorrect. People are suggesting I don’t believe Gase is respected in the LR because of what Manish said. Even minus what Manish said, Gase comes across as a guy who refuses accountability and does not care about his guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 18 hours ago, AFJF said: “Former players”. I was referring to current players. Of course nobody who plays for Gase is going to say publicly that they don’t like him right now. That’s what I was saying doesn’t happen. And if so, it’s incredibly rare. Those players, Mawae and Testeverde, were on the team when they made their comments about Groh to the press. The article states that only five days after Groh resigned he was informed about the comments his players made to the media about him which he wasn't aware of until the interview/presser. You asked which players made statement about Groh while he was coach not Gase 19 hours ago, AFJF said: Which players openly ripped Groh to the press while he was still the HC? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 36 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Let’s also do a close reading of Cromartie’s Gase comment: Question: If this was the entire criticism of Gase that Cro gleaned from his call with Adams—that he “doesn’t care” about Adams’ contract situation—isn’r it an overreaction to say that Gase, when compared to George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower, comes up lacking in the leadership department? Except it’s not my entire criticism of Gase, so why cherry pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, AFJF said: Except it’s not my entire criticism of Gase, so why cherry pick? Because it’s the lone piece of evidence that you repeatedly point to as proof that there’s an anti-Gase sentiment in the Jets locker room. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, AFJF said: Incorrect. People are suggesting I don’t believe Gase is respected in the LR because of what Manish said. Even minus what Manish said, Gase comes across as a guy who refuses accountability and does not care about his guys. “Comes across as a guy” seems pretty scientific. Whole lot of Michael Jackson type of dancing going on here by you for second hand attributions and pure guesswork on what someone might be. Criticize Gase for many things related to football, and that is fine. You second hand guessing his leadership and the methods are not a great hill for you to be dying on. Mehta has tried this approach, and been horrible at it., It has been yellow journalism and second rate. Picking mentors is a wise choice in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 18 hours ago, AFJF said: - 32nd ranked offense in the NFL - Lost to winless Dolphins - Lost to winless Bengals, making him the..... - First coach in NFL history to lose to 2 winless teams in week 7 or later - Even his most devout supporter refers to him as mediocre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Two subjects I'm personally worn out on: 1. Adams Future and Current Worth. 2. Gase and his resume to-date and if players believe in him. No one is changing their minds on these two. No one. JD either will trade Adams or not, not worth the time till it happens. Gase IS the Head Coach for 2020, like him or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 hours ago, AFJF said: Incorrect. People are suggesting I don’t believe Gase is respected in the LR because of what Manish said. Even minus what Manish said, Gase comes across as a guy who refuses accountability and does not care about his guys. Comes across. Same thing as guessing. You can't tell a thing about him refusing responsibility to that he doesnt care about his guys from how he comes across in press conferences. Parcells was the ultimate I dont give a shlt, its my way or leave HC by the way he came off, hell by what he said. He cared about his guys more than anyone. You've got nothing to go on but your impression of him based on 7-9, his record and nothing about any knowledge of how he gets along with his Jet players 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Comes across. Same thing as guessing. You can't tell a thing about him refusing responsibility to that he doesnt care about his guys from how he comes across in press conferences. Parcells was the ultimate I dont give a shlt, its my way or leave HC by the way he came off, hell by what he said. He cared about his guys more than anyone. You've got nothing to go on but your impression of him based on 7-9, his record and nothing about any knowledge of how he gets along with his Jet players A lot of people seem to be having a hard time seeing the difference between not talking to the media bout their players and not talking to their players. It seems like a pretty clear difference when I write/read it but for some reason a lot of people keep seeing one and not the other or thinking the two are the same. Also, he wasn't a rookie head coach last season so we have several seasons of failure and lack of accountability to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 hours ago, T0mShane said: Because it’s the lone piece of evidence that you repeatedly point to as proof that there’s an anti-Gase sentiment in the Jets locker room. No, it's the lone piece you've decided to latch on to. Career record, 32nd ranked offense, inability to deploy personnel correctly, lie to media about meeting with players, didn't play to player's strengths or opponent's weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, AFJF said: A lot of people seem to be having a hard time seeing the difference between not talking to the media bout their players and not talking to their players. It seems like a pretty clear difference when I write/read it but for some reason a lot of people keep seeing one and not the other or thinking the two are the same. Also, he wasn't a rookie head coach last season so we have several seasons of failure and lack of accountability to look at. It is certainly hard to understand why others are having problems with your stance when you say“Gase comes across as a guy who” and “Gases strikes me” as pieces of your evidence. I mean who can argue with iron clad truths like those? No, you are not agenda driven in the least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 hours ago, AFJF said: A lot of people seem to be having a hard time seeing the difference between not talking to the media bout their players and not talking to their players. It seems like a pretty clear difference when I write/read it but for some reason a lot of people keep seeing one and not the other or thinking the two are the same. Also, he wasn't a rookie head coach last season so we have several seasons of failure and lack of accountability to look at. Honestly I’m not getting your argument. You want to tell me, repeatedly that you can tell things like Gase doesn’t care about his players by he public persona. I could care less what a butt hurt Landry said after the fins wouldn’t make him the worlds highest paid WR. Actually there’s a similar situation. Or Ajayi who everyone says was a problem. You know sometimes teams are just made up of asswhipes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Honestly I’m not getting your argument. You want to tell me, repeatedly that you can tell things like Gase doesn’t care about his players by he public persona. I could care less what a butt hurt Landry said after the fins wouldn’t make him the worlds highest paid WR. Actually there’s a similar situation. Or Ajayi who everyone says was a problem. You know sometimes teams are just made up of asswhipes This isn't specifict ot Gase. This is any human being who is in charge of a group of people. If anyone were to tell me they worked in a high-rish job where violence is the norm and after suffering an injury their boss went several weeks without checking in to see how they were doing, I'd know that the person they work for doesn't care about them. It's not a "feeling' or a "hunch". It's a fact. That is terrible leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/27/2020 at 3:12 PM, AFJF said: Some solid points in here. The main thing to me is that people get legitimately enraged over the fact that I say Manish has sources despite the fact that just last week he broke the Denzel Mims signing and Jamal demanding a trade. These aren't the types of things somebody can just dream up and then they just happen to be true. Mob mentality has a strong grip on some of the posters here and while it's sad on the one hand, it's super fascinating to watch it manifest to the point of people making personal attacks on a football message board. I don't generally agree with you on Manish, I think he's stirring the pot more so than anything because that's what sells. However, as much as I don't think he has sources, that's solely based on unconfirmed sources, I respect your right to have the stance on the opposite end. Neither I, nor you, have damning evidence to point one way or another, but I don't understand why there's such back and forth on it in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 39 minutes ago, win4ever said: I don't generally agree with you on Manish, I think he's stirring the pot more so than anything because that's what sells. However, as much as I don't think he has sources, that's solely based on unconfirmed sources, I respect your right to have the stance on the opposite end. Neither I, nor you, have damning evidence to point one way or another, but I don't understand why there's such back and forth on it in this thread. You're entitled to assume he got lucky and guessed right on Mims signing last week as well as being first on Jamal's trade request which Cimini repeated 15 minutes later, but I'd put that down to him having sources. People are so married to the "he has no sources" mantra that they'll keep saying it despite very clear evidence to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, AFJF said: You're entitled to assume he got lucky and guessed right on Mims signing last week as well as being first on Jamal's trade request which Cimini repeated 15 minutes later, but I'd put that down to him having sources. People are so married to the "he has no sources" mantra that they'll keep saying it despite very clear evidence to the contrary. I think you have it backwards. No one is suggesting that EVERY Manish story, with a source is wrong. A broken clock is right twice a day. When evaluating a reporter and his stories, the question isn't whether he occasionally gets those stories right . You could guess on some of these and get them right and he could get some inside info occasionally. It would be impossible for the beat writer for the Daily News to NEVER get a scoop. Manish could also be making up his source and likely be correct that there is/are players that don't like Gase. Players get cut, players get benched, players get less targets. There are plenty of reasons some players won't like a HC. The issue with Manish is that oftentimes his stories fit an agenda. He doesn't like a HC or is getting enough inside info, so all of a sudden he finds a random player that is willing to spew nonsense about that coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 45 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: I think you have it backwards. No one is suggesting that EVERY Manish story, with a source is wrong. A broken clock is right twice a day. When evaluating a reporter and his stories, the question isn't whether he occasionally gets those stories right . You could guess on some of these and get them right and he could get some inside info occasionally. It would be impossible for the beat writer for the Daily News to NEVER get a scoop. Manish could also be making up his source and likely be correct that there is/are players that don't like Gase. Players get cut, players get benched, players get less targets. There are plenty of reasons some players won't like a HC. The issue with Manish is that oftentimes his stories fit an agenda. He doesn't like a HC or is getting enough inside info, so all of a sudden he finds a random player that is willing to spew nonsense about that coach. I think you've missed the countless posts/comments on this forum claiming Manish has no sources and makes up all of his stories. This is wholly and verifiably incorrect. Why this enrages people, I have no idea. Perhaps because it's 2020 and nobody is ever able to say "Oh, I was wrong about that". Everyone is an expert and everyone knows everything. When presented with evidence that contradicts their agenda, narcissism won't allow them to just admit they were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 4 hours ago, AFJF said: I think you've missed the countless posts/comments on this forum claiming Manish has no sources and makes up all of his stories. This is wholly and verifiably incorrect. Why this enrages people, I have no idea. Perhaps because it's 2020 and nobody is ever able to say "Oh, I was wrong about that". Everyone is an expert and everyone knows everything. When presented with evidence that contradicts their agenda, narcissism won't allow them to just admit they were wrong. Mirror, meet AFJF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 15 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Mirror, meet AFJF. When you’re such a narcissist that you believe your opinions are facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, AFJF said: When you’re such a narcissist that you believe your opinions are facts. I’ll bite. What opinions have I stated as fact here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 6 hours ago, AFJF said: You're entitled to assume he got lucky and guessed right on Mims signing last week as well as being first on Jamal's trade request which Cimini repeated 15 minutes later, but I'd put that down to him having sources. People are so married to the "he has no sources" mantra that they'll keep saying it despite very clear evidence to the contrary. He can have sources, “break” tiny stories that are intended to be public knowledge anyway, and still be so terrible at his job that he’s the singularly most reviled sports journalist within his industry that I’ve personally ever witnessed. Imagine how unprofessional and untalented you have to be to become so publicly despised by your own colleagues *and* the biggest “scoop* you get in two years is that Denzel Mims signed his rookie deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, T0mShane said: He can have sources, “break” tiny stories that are intended to be public knowledge anyway, and still be so terrible at his job that he’s the singularly most reviled sports journalist within his industry that I’ve personally ever witnessed. Imagine how unprofessional and untalented you have to be to become so publicly despised by your own colleagues *and* the biggest “scoop* you get in two years is that Denzel Mims signed his rookie deal. So you’re saying he does have sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, AFJF said: So you’re saying he does have sources? None that are interested in helping his career, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Just now, T0mShane said: None that are interested in helping his career, apparently. But he does have sources? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, AFJF said: But he does have sources? Sure. I’ve never said otherwise. The problem with Manish is that he’ll follow up a menial story about Mims signing his rookie deal with a column about how we’re trading for Andre Dillard or how Mike Maccagnan is safe in his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Sure. I’ve never said otherwise. The problem with Manish is that he’ll follow up a menial story about Mims signing his rookie deal with a column about how we’re trading for Andre Dillard or how Mike Maccagnan is safe in his job. Was Jamal requesting a trade a menial story? I’d argue it was the biggest story of the offseason. Grievances filed against the team by multiple people. Does that fall under “meant for public consumption”? Buggest free agent signings also menial? What about the random firing of Morton a couple years back? He wasn’t only the first to report it but forecasted it several days before it was official. I remember that one well because somebody told me I was a “conspiracy theorist” when I said Manish was predicting a firing. Dont like him? That’s fine. Everyone is entitled to feel how they like about any other person. But the narratives about Manish aren’t supported by the facts, whether he comes in the JN podcast or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, AFJF said: Was Jamal requesting a trade a menial story? I’d argue it was the biggest story of the offseason. Grievances filed against the team by multiple people. Does that fall under “meant for public consumption”? Buggest free agent signings also menial? What about the random firing of Morton a couple years back? He wasn’t only the first to report it but forecasted it several days before it was official. I remember that one well because somebody told me I was a “conspiracy theorist” when I said Manish was predicting a firing. Dont like him? That’s fine. Everyone is entitled to feel how they like about any other person. But the narratives about Manish aren’t supported by the facts, whether he comes in the JN podcast or not. Your problem, and his, is that literally nobody remembers any of that because he’s such an unprofessional grievance-driven loser otherwise that he has zero professional credibility, neither among his readers nor his colleagues. It’s understandable for him to want to chase clicks, but you can’t turn around and whine when nobody finds him credible or interesting. He did this to himself. Weird horse to hitch your cart to, Glenn. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, AFJF said: Was Jamal requesting a trade a menial story? I’d argue it was the biggest story of the offseason. Grievances filed against the team by multiple people. Does that fall under “meant for public consumption”? Buggest free agent signings also menial? What about the random firing of Morton a couple years back? He wasn’t only the first to report it but forecasted it several days before it was official. I remember that one well because somebody told me I was a “conspiracy theorist” when I said Manish was predicting a firing. Dont like him? That’s fine. Everyone is entitled to feel how they like about any other person. But the narratives about Manish aren’t supported by the facts, whether he comes in the JN podcast or not. No one is right 100% of the time. No one is wrong 100% of the time. No one comes without some kind of “sources”. The fact of the matter is that Mehta often seems to insert himself into the story, and become a part of the story. Fact is also that many of the beat writers covering the same stories have complaints that Mehta creates his own “sources” on stories that never materialize any place else. It seems a strange coincidence. Fact is the Daily News is a struggling entity that has had to scurry many of its writers, many of its infrastructure. Pure speculation on my part here, but typically when that happens, if you are part of a failing organization, you begin to look outside those walls and try to find a stable place to land. It happens often in that business. That Mehta has not been able to land someplace on his feet, may seem that others in the industry view him as “tarnished” and not worth taking a risk on hiring. Again, pure speculation on my part. But, based upon how Mehta conducts his business, he deserves that kind of scrutiny. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Your problem, and his, is that literally nobody remembers any of that because he’s such an unprofessional grievance-driven loser otherwise that he has zero professional credibility, neither among his readers nor his colleagues. It’s understandable for him to want to chase clicks, but you can’t turn around and whine when nobody finds him credible or interesting. He did this to himself. Weird horse to hitch your cart to, Glenn. Only thing I’m “hitching my cart to” is reality. I know people get emotional about this team being so terrible, but we should probably be upset about things that are real vs things that are imagined. I suppose we’ll have some of that if George Fant gets Darnold killed. Edited June 29, 2020 by AFJF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, AFJF said: Only thing I’m “hitching my cart to” is reality. I know people get emotional about this team being so terrible, but we should probably be upset about things that are real vs things that are imagined. I suppose we’ll have some of that if George Fant gets Darnold killed. Your posts seem to indicate otherwise. There are a lot of subjective innuendos in your posts. Granted, you seem to do that a lot less in your “stories” for this site. That is more credible. But you have to walk a fine line between blurring those lines. If you want both to have credibility. I will grant you that is a tough task. But is how you will be judged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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