Interesting Take on Darnold

[JetsFanatic]

30 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Exactly.

Despite the way people want to spin it, guys like me, @Dunnie @Losmeister, @bitontiand @Villain The Foe are Jets fans who would like nothing better than to see Darnold become a top 10 QB.

None of us derive any pleasure from, or enjoy seeing him play like a bottom 5 QB.  We understand that he doesn’t have a lot of help around him, however we also think that Darnold has not performed very well either.

 If that annoys people, that’s fine, they’re being a “good fan” and supporting their guy, I suppose.

We have two years in the books now, and there are a lot more people voicing “concerns” about Sam, both here and in the media. But there isn’t one of us “Doubters” who want to end up being on the right side of this argument.

We’d be very happy to take an L here, and be reminded of it for years.

 

I guess you don't watch many Jets games.  Last season the Jets were a pathetic 0-3 without him and  7-6 (7-5 without mono) with him.  Also over the 2nd half of the season he was the 10th rated passer in the NFL. 

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Despite the way people want to spin it, guys like me, @Dunnie @Losmeister, @bitontiand @Villain The Foe are Jets fans who would like nothing better than to see Darnold become a top 10 QB.

Really?
All I reread from them is that Darnold hasn't shown anything and never will be anything.  Bit is willing to bet that he won't be anything and Losmeister trashes him at every turn.  So I'm not getting this at all.  

[14 in Green]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Really?
All I reread from them is that Darnold hasn't shown anything and never will be anything.  Bit is willing to bet that he won't be anything and Losmeister trashes him at every turn.  So I'm not getting this at all.  

Maybe I’m wrong here, but I think it’s more a case of them expressing frustration with fans who refuse to acknowledge even the slightest of flaws with Sam’s performance thus far.

Serious question... I don’t think anyone has ever called him a bust yet, have they?

[JetsFanatic]

18 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Maybe I’m wrong here, but I think it’s more a case of them expressing frustration with fans who refuse to acknowledge even the slightest of flaws with Sam’s performance thus far.

Serious question... I don’t think anyone has ever called him a bust yet, have they?

Slightest of flaws? Really you make it sound like it's one extreme or the other. Of course Darnold has floors, but he also happens to be  very talented. Look at the Jets with him and without him, quite a difference.  He also hasn't had much of an offensive line for his first two seasons. 

[14 in Green]

2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Slightest of flaws? Really you make it sound like it's one extreme or the other. Of course Darnold has floors, but he also happens to be  very talented. Look at the Jets with him and without him, quite a difference.  He also hasn't had much of an offensive line for his first two seasons. 

Be honest, any criticism of this player is met with anger and or disbelief here.

As for the OL? Yeah, that’s been mentioned here once or twice. I think we’re all aware of that, just like we are Sam’s age.

[JetsFanatic]

1 minute ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Be honest, any criticism of this player is met with anger and or disbelief here.

As for the OL? Yeah, that’s been mentioned here once or twice. I think we’re all aware of that, just like we are Sam’s age.

You don't criticize, you act like he has no talent. 

[Jet Nut]

44 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Maybe I’m wrong here, but I think it’s more a case of them expressing frustration with fans who refuse to acknowledge even the slightest of flaws with Sam’s performance thus far.

Serious question... I don’t think anyone has ever called him a bust yet, have they?

Bit has made plenty of complaints about his abilities, his talent, that he went to USC, blah, blah, blah.  His conclusion is that Darnold will never become anything.  Los...agrees.  Theyre not frustrated fans, theyre fans who have come to a conclusion, too soon IMO, and basically have him as a bust

[Grandy]

So far Darnold hasn't played like I expected when we initially drafted him, but I also did not think our team would be that awful and we'd at least try to give him something better than Adam Gase who is just about the most mediocre coach in the league, and that trash heap of an o-line.  Just look at how our team has fared without him.

. 

We also desperately need a QB coach. FFS for a guy who's biggest issues are mechanical (specifically footwork) we've done little to support him in that regard. The only thing we've given him is Dowell Loggains and we don't even know what exactly he does. For all we know the team has just put that responsibility on Jordan Palmer who also has a dozen other QB's to work with at any given time. The guy has been playing QB for 6 years and has NEVER had a personal QB coach.  Is it really that hard? Especially for a guy who needs it. 

Anytime the guy has been given adequate time he's delivered and I'm banking on him improving as long as we do as he still showed growth when facing pressure as well. Saw a Nania article with some very intriguing factoids that point directly to this. and show signs of promise looking forward. 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2020/05/27/100-reasons-to-believe-in-new-york-jets-qb-sam-darnold/

"The league average pressure rate (percentage of dropbacks in which the quarterback is pressured) tends to hover around 34%. In eight career games in which he was pressured 34% of the time or less, Darnold completed 156-of-229 passes for 2,039 yards (8.9 per attempt, 254.9 per game), 16 touchdowns (7.0% rate), and six interceptions (2.6% rate), generating a 108.3 passer rating. The Jets went 7-1 in those games while the offense scored 29.0 points per game."

"From a clean pocket, Darnold had an adjusted completion percentage (filtering out drops, throwaways, etc.) of 81.7% in 2019, sixth-best out of 32 qualifiers."

"From Weeks 10-17 of 2019, Darnold took pressure on a higher percentage of dropbacks than any other qualified quarterback (41.9%), yet still ranked 10th in passer rating (93.3) & 11th in yards per attempt (7.3) over that span."

 

[GreekJet]

52 minutes ago, Grandy said:

So far Darnold hasn't played like I expected when we initially drafted him, but I also did not think our team would be that awful and we'd at least try to give him something better than Adam Gase who is just about the most mediocre coach in the league, and that trash heap of an o-line.  Just look at how our team has fared without him.

. 

We also desperately need a QB coach. FFS for a guy who's biggest issues are mechanical (specifically footwork) we've done little to support him in that regard. The only thing we've given him is Dowell Loggains and we don't even know what exactly he does. For all we know the team has just put that responsibility on Jordan Palmer who also has a dozen other QB's to work with at any given time. The guy has been playing QB for 6 years and has NEVER had a personal QB coach.  Is it really that hard? Especially for a guy who needs it. 

Anytime the guy has been given adequate time he's delivered and I'm banking on him improving as long as we do as he still showed growth when facing pressure as well. Saw a Nania article with some very intriguing factoids that point directly to this. and show signs of promise looking forward. 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2020/05/27/100-reasons-to-believe-in-new-york-jets-qb-sam-darnold/

"The league average pressure rate (percentage of dropbacks in which the quarterback is pressured) tends to hover around 34%. In eight career games in which he was pressured 34% of the time or less, Darnold completed 156-of-229 passes for 2,039 yards (8.9 per attempt, 254.9 per game), 16 touchdowns (7.0% rate), and six interceptions (2.6% rate), generating a 108.3 passer rating. The Jets went 7-1 in those games while the offense scored 29.0 points per game."

"From a clean pocket, Darnold had an adjusted completion percentage (filtering out drops, throwaways, etc.) of 81.7% in 2019, sixth-best out of 32 qualifiers."

"From Weeks 10-17 of 2019, Darnold took pressure on a higher percentage of dropbacks than any other qualified quarterback (41.9%), yet still ranked 10th in passer rating (93.3) & 11th in yards per attempt (7.3) over that span."

 

The Luke Falk/Gase offense might have been the most inept thing to watch since Ryan Lindley in Arizona. 

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Bit has made plenty of complaints about his abilities, his talent, that he went to USC, blah, blah, blah.  His conclusion is that Darnold will never become anything.  Los...agrees.  Theyre not frustrated fans, theyre fans who have come to a conclusion, too soon IMO, and basically have him as a bust

 

4 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Maybe I’m wrong here, but I think it’s more a case of them expressing frustration with fans who refuse to acknowledge even the slightest of flaws with Sam’s performance thus far.

Serious question... I don’t think anyone has ever called him a bust yet, have they?

Los may not always express it in the best way, but he genuinely has admitted to me that he wants to be wrong.

Bit?  Bit wants to stroke himself to the idea that he's right and everyone that disagrees with him is wrong.  He may have never technically used the "bust" term yet, but it's clear as day that he believes it.  The guy admitted he doesn't root for the Jets anymore.  Sorry, but f*ck that.  Leave the forum and the fandom entirely then.

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

 

Los may not always express it in the best way, but he genuinely has admitted to me that he wants to be wrong.

Bit?  Bit wants to stroke himself to the idea that he's right and everyone that disagrees with him is wrong.  He may have never technically used the "bust" term yet, but it's clear as day that he believes it.

i've explained several if not many times...   that I cut my teeth making all sorts of excuses for another #14 Jet QB.

JN had me convinced (my bad) that Sam was a mortal lock to be a superstar.

So far...    he seems like yet another highly drafted guy who "ain't all that"....

Let's see an absence of the 3-4 games where he is just really BAD which puts us out of contention....

cos accumulating decent looking stats in the 2nd half of the year when we wont make playoffs is pretty meaningless.

[Mogglez]

5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i've explained several if not many times...   that I cut my teeth making all sorts of excuses for another #14 Jet QB.

JN had me convinced (my bad) that Sam was a mortal lock to be a superstar.

So far...    he seems like yet another highly drafted guy who "ain't all that"....

Let's see an absence of the 3-4 games where he is just really BAD which puts us out of contention....

cos accumulating decent looking stats in the 2nd half of the year when we wont make playoffs is pretty meaningless.

I get it.  While I'm more optimistic, I know that he needs to put a full season of good work in.  We're both in the same boat in our rooting interests, I just hope I'm right and you hope you're wrong.

[Losmeister]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I get it.  While I'm more optimistic, I know that he needs to put a full season of good work in.  We're both in the same boat in our rooting interests, I just hope I'm right and you hope you're wrong.

me too.

for me, tho, the odds? odds seem against...

was it this thread? but I mentioned Aikman...   Aikman wasnt all that but he played his piece in a great team w/o being great himself

i mean, i have no choice but to be ok with whatever he turns out to be... 

    but i have never been able to say that the Jet QB is a GREAT NFL QB.

THAT's what I was led to expect. 

 

 

[JohnnyD]

So close to 50% of the time they went offense?  
And Id bet the rest of their picks work out to around 50% offense. 
Its more of a case that their offensive picks, after the 1st round, sucked and didnt pan out.  When they have gone offense with their 1sts, they've been pretty solid

A little belated, but welcome back Jet Nut. Unfortunately, the Jets penchant for defense is worse than "around 50%". In 30 first round picks since 1995 the Jets have gone defense for 19 of those picks. Even worse, since 2002 the Jets have only gone offense on only 6 out of 21 first round picks. Of course, if they had a better success rate on these picks (whether offense or defense) we'd all be happier.

Sent from my SM-G975U using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

Los may not always express it in the best way, but he genuinely has admitted to me that he wants to be wrong.

Bit?  Bit wants to stroke himself to the idea that he's right and everyone that disagrees with him is wrong.  He may have never technically used the "bust" term yet, but it's clear as day that he believes it.  The guy admitted he doesn't root for the Jets anymore.  Sorry, but f*ck that.  Leave the forum and the fandom entirely then.

Remember the draft night zoom call?  I was calling to draft Morgan, when he was taken he moaned and now is calling for him to play.  Basically over Sam.  I wanted him and don’t want him playing, I want Sam to develop as the starter and Morgan as a capable backup

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, JohnnyD said:

A little belated, but welcome back Jet Nut. Unfortunately, the Jets penchant for defense is worse than "around 50%". In 30 first round picks since 1995 the Jets have gone defense for 19 of those picks. Even worse, since 2002 the Jets have only gone offense on only 6 out of 21 first round picks. Of course, if they had a better success rate on these picks (whether offense or defense) we'd all be happier.

Sent from my SM-G975U using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Thanks, good to be back

Yeah I was looking at the 11 picks you posted and figured 11 in 25 drafts.

But I will say, I’ve done it, taking all the picks into account it’s near 50%.  But you’re dead right in that they haven’t spent enough of their high picks on offense.  Especially lately

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Be honest, any criticism of this player is met with anger and or disbelief here.

As for the OL? Yeah, that’s been mentioned here once or twice. I think we’re all aware of that, just like we are Sam’s age.

We get it already we shoulda traded up for the 1 pick to draft the sucky midget

[Bowles Movement]

19 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So close to 50% of the time they went offense?  

And Id bet the rest of their picks work out to around 50% offense. 

Its more of a case that their offensive picks, after the 1st round, sucked and didnt pan out.  When they have gone offense with their 1sts, they've been pretty solid

Don’t forget, the year they took Pennington and Becht they had 4 firsts and took Ellis and Abraham, 2 defensive players.   Changes the denominator

[Jetster]

Joe Douglas knows Sam like any QB in the league needs to be protected. What are the traits of all of the guys he's brought in here? Toughness, guys like Bechton & Clark who FINISH! It's going to take a little time but instead of Sam playing behind a line of other teams rejects & Idzik & McCaggnon mistakes like Winters & Shell, JDs building a line that can grow with Sam. 

You need to have an Oline that prides itself on taking care of their QB. A line that WANTS to punch people in the mouth! The Flotsam Sam has played with didn't even help him off the ground after guys ran through them like turnstiles. The Patriots game & especially the Miami game in Miami were just disgusting displays of an inept Oline. If a team can physically beat up your Oline what chance does your QB have? 

I never felt worse for Sam than in Miami, he walked off that field with the dirtiest uniform on the field. That line allowed Miami to kick the sh*t out of him with no answer. 

[GreekJet]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:44 AM, BurnleyJet said:

I’m going to enjoy this season, especially all the back tracking when Darnold turns it’s on in 2020.

He’s in the second year in the system and spent all offseason working on his footwork/mechanics. He’s got 25MM on the line this year so I think whatever we see from Sam is going to be his best. 

[slats]

17 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

He’s in the second year in the system and spent all offseason working on his footwork/mechanics. He’s got 25MM on the line this year so I think whatever we see from Sam is going to be his best. 

You mean his fifth year option? Have to assume that the Jets currently intend to pick that up. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Don’t forget, the year they took Pennington and Becht they had 4 firsts and took Ellis and Abraham, 2 defensive players.   Changes the denominator

No, you're right.

Man, I miss those kinds of drafts as few and far between as they've been.  

Abraham, Ellis, Pennington and Becht in one draft.

Even better their next pick was L Coles

[Philc1]

List of agendas by the “Sam is the the worst QB ever” people

 

1. patriots fans reporters

2. giants fans reporters

3. People who still think Baker = Drew Brees 2.0

[bitonti]

On 7/4/2020 at 10:51 AM, Dcat said:

And I predict you will be saying that by the end of 2021 at the latest.  

here's the actual time line 

This is year 3 of Darnold's rookie contract 2020

2021 year 4 they decide to pick up year 5

he gets an extension the offseason between year 4-5 

that's Jan 2022 Woody Johnson pays Sam Darnold 100 million dollars

does anyone else see that as an unlikely scenario? 

2 things have to happen Darnold needs to play out of his mind, better than he ever has, and Woody has to decide to pay someone bigger money than he's ever paid another human before 

[14 in Green]

On 7/4/2020 at 10:57 AM, Dcat said:

where have you given Darnold any kind of "pass"?  please post the link.  Not buying in. 

And please just stop with the copmparisons of yourself to @Losmeister or @bitonti who have both through the years have been obvious Jets fans with deep concerns and love for the team.  Somehow you don't match up in that regard.  And I don't see their screen names tarred and feathered like yours.  So it's not any surprise to anyone either.

I gotta get outa here for the day.  Letting a troll get a tad under my skin.  You win McFly... McTroll

I won?

LMAO I never even tried, actually.

All I did was let you carry on for an hour or so yesterday, both here and in the Becton thread.

I just sat back, and let you do you.

[Bowles Movement]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

here's the actual time line 

This is year 3 of Darnold's rookie contract 2020

2021 year 4 they decide to pick up year 5

he gets an extension the offseason between year 4-5 

that's Jan 2022 Woody Johnson pays Sam Darnold 100 million dollars

does anyone else see that as an unlikely scenario? 

2 things have to happen Darnold needs to play out of his mind, better than he ever has, and Woody has to decide to pay someone bigger money than he's ever paid another human before 

1. Joe Douglas will decide when and how much Sam gets paid

2.  They have two more years to evaluate him prior to doing anything.   By that time, it should be apparent what his trajectory and upside are.  They can opt to offer him the 5 th year option if they aren’t sure.   

3.  If they do re-sign him it will be for a lot more than 100 million
 

[14 in Green]

18 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

1. Joe Douglas will decide when and how much Sam gets paid

2.  They have two more years to evaluate him prior to doing anything.   By that time, it should be apparent what his trajectory and upside are.  They can opt to offer him the 5 th year option if they aren’t sure.   

3.  If they do re-sign him it will be for a lot more than 100 million
 

1. Yes, of course.

2. I think he might even get tagged the year after that. Because of the ramifications of #3, the Jets absolutely, positively need to be sure about this before they commit.

3. Definitely. Probably somewhere between 250 and 300.

[GreekJet]

@Losmeister@bitonti

@Trolly McTrollface

 

I think everyone here realizes Darnold needs to improve, but the disconnect I have with you is that he seemingly is trending to be this huge bust based off the results of his first two seasons. 
 

What were your expectations for this 21 year old kid (just turned 21) his first two seasons on a bad team and unstable coaching staff? 
 

Year 1: I think he showed enough to get excited about for the future 

Year 2: Probably was hoping for some more growth, but given the mono, Gase, and everything around him falling apart around him it makes sense. 

Year 3: It’s still a pretty bad situation for him against a brutal schedule. If he can be a middle of the pack type passer I think that would be fair.

Folks knocking Darnold remind me of Rangers fans already giving up on Kappo Kakko. Temper your expectations on these incredibly young players and give them time to write their own narrative. 

Is if possible Darnold isn’t the answer? Of course-its still possible Lamar Jackson is RG3 redux. Nobody knows how things are going to turn out and what other QBs did in the past has no impact on Sam Darnolds future. 

I personally think given his age, work ethic, the fact that he’s held his head above water, and that the Jets are improving the infrastructure around him Is reason enough to have the optimism that he’s going to be a much better QB in 2021 than he was in 2019.  
 

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, GreekJet said:

trending to be this huge bust

for me, unless he is GREAT, I am disappointed. 

So far? Jury still out, I'm not that impressed, especially how awful he is at throwing deep.

And as for that last part...   footwork, baby. Go look at some Kurt Warner film and see how to throw deep properly

 

[Losmeister]

and this hoping the former MVP to fail is one of the weakest backhanded ways to supprot a highly drafted guy who is MEH so far...

[Jet_Engine1]

41 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

and this hoping the former MVP to fail is one of the weakest backhanded ways to supprot a highly drafted guy who is MEH so far...

Here's the succinct way to put what other guys here have been saying to you:

 

WE FU*KING GET IT.

 

Unless he turns into a hybrid of Marino, Warner, Aikman, Favre, and Mahomes and wins as much as Montana, you will be disappointed.  We got it. You don't need to pollute every goddamned thread with the same repetitive trash, every other post. LOL. I'm sorry you have Richard Todd Derangement Syndrome and PTSD (show us on the doll where the bad man hurt you....), but we all heard you the first 1000 times. Give it a rest. Let them play a game this year (hopefully) before we hear you bitch and moan again.

 

Try sh*tting on Gase, or Woody, or MacCagnan for a bit, while our 23 year old QB tries to figure out how to win with garbage coaching, an ad hoc O line, and unproven receivers.....

 

Good day.

[GreekJet]

5 hours ago, Losmeister said:

for me, unless he is GREAT, I am disappointed. 

So far? Jury still out, I'm not that impressed, especially how awful he is at throwing deep.

And as for that last part...   footwork, baby. Go look at some Kurt Warner film and see how to throw deep properly

 

I agree with you. Unless he is a great (subjective, but I consider that to be a franchise/pro bowl level QB) I’ll be disappointed as well. It was however unrealistic to expect him to be great from jump given the hand he was dealt and his age/experience. 

 

[Losmeister]

17 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Here's the succinct way to put what other guys here have been saying to you:

WE FU*KING GET IT.

Good day.

the way you all react to baby sam is funny...