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GreekJet

Will Snyder change the name?

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's always interesting to me how many people feel a desperate and overwhelming need to defend things like the Redskins name, Confederate Statues, and policies of discrimination, because of something something "history and heritage", especially when any change would have no effect whatsoever on them. 

It says something that some folks feel so personally attacked when people attack racism in general....:-k

Sadly, this seems a universal human trait, as in my experience the worst offenders of stridently defending the obviously race-based and racist Washington team name are African American DC residents.  The very same people loudly proclaiming Black Lives Matter and fighting systemic racism (rightfully so) seem completely oblivious to the Red lives that in most ways have been treated worse than they have.  You would think if anyone could understand systemic racism against Native Americans, and help fight against it, it would be African Americans.  But nope, in my experience they're the folks most defending the team name.  

Kinda like the biggest "Merica' F' Yeah! Patriotism! Check out my Flag!" people are the most strident defenders of statues of traitorous rebels who fought a war against the United States.  Again, same issues at play.

Or rampant supporting racism. 

Listening to radio the other day. There are some BLM groups that are finding ways to bring other groups into the food, specifically Native Americans, because BLM has so much volume right now. The idea is to use their voice to amplify more than black causes. I felt good about the interview I heard. Can not recall station. It was sports and the topic was the skins though.

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1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Do I strike you as full of outrage? Or emotional? I’ve made very pragmatic arguments here. I feel like you’re just giving me a blanket statement “i hate snowflakes, but I’m a snowflake” lecture.

Hey hey hey don't put the "H" word in my mouth. 😂

You jumped in to defend @Arsis who snowflaked all over my Westside Story joke.... So you expect not get lumped in with him?

Like I said and I'm tired of it actually being a point but I'm Puerto Rican I can make a Westside Story joke.

Humor is humor, I made the joke hoping someone snowflake all over it.

Mostly because I'm a troll who likes to prod people into extended confrontation for my own amusement. 

But I'm also a mixed race guy who gets along with people on all sides all over the spectrum. I find it unfortunate that you have to qualify some statements with "as a white guy" just as I find it unfortunate that having Puerto Rican heritage gives my points some sort of social equity. I think we should all be on equal footing in our interpersonal interactions, apparently that is a passe stance in today's world.

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I consider myself lucky. The most offensive thing I face is when Gen X is completely ignored in polling across generations.

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53 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Are you saying that someone would name their team something that was meant to portray weakness, cowardice, frailty?

There was once a Negro League team owned by a white guy named the Ethiopian Clowns... so there's that. And then there was the Wops. Yeah, team named that too. Frivolous names are a dime a dozen and many of them are offensive to somebody, which is why they're frivolous.

In any case, what was reasonable in 1930 is not necessarily reasonable today. In 1930, a real Native American couldn't even get a job portraying a Native American. Only Italians could get those jobs. lol

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1 minute ago, Lurker89 said:

Hey hey hey don't put the "H" word in my mouth. 😂

You jumped in to defend @Arsis who snowflaked all over my Westside Story joke.... So you expect not get lumped in with him?

Like I said and I'm tired of it actually being a point but I'm Puerto Rican I can make a Westside Story joke.

Humor is humor, I made the joke hoping someone snowflake all over it.

Mostly because I'm a troll who likes to prod people into extended confrontation for my own amusement. 

But I'm also a mixed race guy who gets along with people on all sides all over the spectrum. I find it unfortunate that you have to qualify some statements with "as a white guy" just as I find it unfortunate that having Puerto Rican heritage gives my points some sort of social equity. I think we should all be on equal footing in our interpersonal interactions, apparently that is a passe stance in today's world.

You’re off-track. Put me in ignore.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

 

I would 1000% support changing “Jets” to “Sharks.”

Can't it is offensive to lawyers

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If Snyder wanted to be a real prick, he’d rename the team The Washington Offensive

Connotations of scoring points, dept. of defense and trolling. 

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28 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Nine in 10 Native Americans say they are not offended by the Washington Redskins name, according to a new Washington Post poll that shows how few ordinary Indians have been persuaded by a national movement to change the football team’s moniker.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

Your point lost all credibility at "Washington Post Poll". 

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

If the Jets were forced to change their name for whatever reason, what are some New York(or non New York) type nicknames that would fit?  

Maybe a better question would be what names would you submit for a naming contest?

New York Titans again or New York Knights

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27 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You have the response you’re looking for. Read my posts. It was your decision to render it derpy. 

My grandfather, a Native American and WWII veteran that served with the Windtalkers (or whatever it was really called, at this point in life I get 3rd hand stories), found it unnecessary. I liked the skins in the Doug Williams SB, and remember as a kid talking to him about pride and name calling. I defer to him. He wasnt a sensitive type. 

As a white guy, I have no say. I cannot relate to being deemed second class and having white people care more about symbols than the fact that they remind me of my second class position. My rule of thumb is to ignore the polarized bickering about outrage and outrage about outrage, and I just defer to valuing everyday people over corporate entities. Brands can be reimagined, and profit is going to be inevitable in the right industry. 

Our society needs to find its way back to courtesy and respect, and putting people over corporations is part of that. In my opinion.

 

Washington Windtalkers. I like it.

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4 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

Hey hey hey don't put the "H" word in my mouth. 😂

You jumped in to defend @Arsis who snowflaked all over my Westside Story joke.... So you expect not get lumped in with him?

Like I said and I'm tired of it actually being a point but I'm Puerto Rican I can make a Westside Story joke.

Humor is humor, I made the joke hoping someone snowflake all over it.

Mostly because I'm a troll who likes to prod people into extended confrontation for my own amusement. 

But I'm also a mixed race guy who gets along with people on all sides all over the spectrum. I find it unfortunate that you have to qualify some statements with "as a white guy" just as I find it unfortunate that having Puerto Rican heritage gives my points some sort of social equity. I think we should all be on equal footing in our interpersonal interactions, apparently that is a passe stance in today's world.

The Irish dude big mad over a downvote on a website. You realize they're not important, right?

 Talk about a snowflake.

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1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

From the mighty Irish airforce?

So mighty, the best thing flying in IAC markings is a 75 year old Spitfire...

79 Best Irish aer corps images | Defence force, Military aircraft ...

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2 hours ago, nico002 said:

Serious question, would skins be offensive? That seems like a subtle change? 

I think “Skins” is the troublesome part. Just change the name. If any team needs a re-brand it’s them anyway. DC changed that offensive Senators name, after all. 

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Washington Hickorys- logo of Jackson riding a majestic horse

Washington Unions - logo of Lincoln and grant shaking hands
 

Washington Continentals - logo of the Declaration of Independence 

 

*outrage intensifies*

 

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

Just over 50 years ago, Washington became the last NFL team to allow blacks on it's roster. The owner at the time was this guy: 

"In 1932, Marshall bought the Boston Braves football team. After five years of sparse crowds, and a loss of $85,000, Marshall moved the team, now named the Redskins, to Washington." 

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/sports/football/50-years-ago-redskins-were-last-nfl-team-to-integrate.html

So the guy who didn't want blacks on his team also thought it would be fun to change the name of his football team from the much less offensive Braves to the Redskins. Screw that guy, and screw Snyder for sticking with it. The federal government was involved then, withholding the use of the stadium on federal land if they didn't integrate. Same pressure is being applied this time as Snyder tries to move back to DC. At this point, it really just feels like a matter of time. 

People from generations ago should not be judged by today's standards. 

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Just now, JetsFanatic said:

You can't judge people from generations ago by today's standards. 

I can't judge the last NFL team to integrate its roster? 

No, I'm sorry. I think I can. 

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Just now, slats said:

I can't judge the last NFL team to integrate its roster? 

No, I'm sorry. I think I can. 

There has to be a last.  If you are telling me he held out many years after all other teams had black players then I agree. If it was just a season or so then he is no different.

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2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You can't judge people from generations ago by today's standards. 

You can't judge people from a few years ago by today's standards or Joe Biden would be labeled a racist.

With that said, times change and what is considered right/wrong changes. The time for Snyder to change the name has come and I'm pretty confident it will happen sooner rather than later.

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

I can't judge the last NFL team to integrate its roster? 

No, I'm sorry. I think I can. 

It was 7 years.  By 1955, every team other than the Redskins had a back player.  7 years is significant. 

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

I can't judge the last NFL team to integrate its roster? 

No, I'm sorry. I think I can. 

What about the second to last team or third to last team and so on? At what point do you stop judging teams that at some point didn't integrate?

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28 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

There was once a Negro League team owned by a white guy named the Ethiopian Clowns... so there's that. And then there was the Wops. Yeah, team named that too. Frivolous names are a dime a dozen and many of them are offensive to somebody, which is why they're frivolous.

In any case, what was reasonable in 1930 is not necessarily reasonable today. In 1930, a real Native American couldn't even get a job portraying a Native American. Only Italians could get those jobs. lol

Italians are the best actors.

Thats another good point. We recognize the NFL as serious, monolithic. But when they were named, the league was new and insignificant, perhaps frivolous. 

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6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You can't judge people from a few years ago by today's standards or Joe Biden would be labeled a racist.

With that said, times change and what is considered right/wrong changes. The time for Snyder to change the name has come and I'm pretty confident it will happen sooner rather than later.

I'm not arguing that standards change and evolve from generation to generation.  I've always had a problem with going into history and judging historic figures by todays standards.  In this case Marshall was a racist by the standards of his era, as there was a 7 year gap between all other NFL teams and the Redskins in signing minority players.

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2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

There has to be a last.  If you are telling me he held out many years after all other teams had black players then I agree. If it was just a season or so then he is no different.

I'm really shocked that anyone would defend such behavior, no matter the time frame. 

The owner was a racist, plain and simple. From the article I linked above... 

'As for integrating his team, Marshall said that many fans preferred watching white players and would reject the Redskins if they had a black player.

In contrast to other N.F.L. owners, Marshall “did not pretend there were no blacks good enough to make his team,” Andy Piascik wrote in “Gridiron Gauntlet: The Story of the Men Who Integrated Pro Football in Their Own Words.” “Unlike the others, he was honest enough to admit that he simply didn’t want them around.”'

Dude was a flat out racist who was specifically marketing his team to the south. Very little doubt that he gave himself a chuckle when he changed the team's name from Braves to Redskins. 

And oh, for the record, the rest of the NFL had integrated by 1955. The 'Skins held out until 1962. 

 

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7 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I'm not arguing that standards change and evolve from generation to generation.  I've always had a problem with going into history and judging historic figures by todays standards.  In this case Marshall was a racist by the standards of his era, as there was a 7 year gap between all other NFL teams and the Redskins in signing minority players.

True but I'd bet the vast majority of those owners were racists.

I mean the Giants still haven't had a black head coach or a black starting QB unless you count that one time Geno Smith started and got benched by ownership the next week.

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32 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You’re off-track. Put me in ignore.

Okay.... so I said something that makes you not want to engage with me anymore?

I'm talking to you rationally, I'm not being combative. Not trolling you, you could just express your opinion as to why I'm "off-track" instead of taking your ball and going home.

 You are willing to butt heads with @Gastineau Lives  but want me to put  you on ignore, I'm genuinely confused by that stance.

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14 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

At what point do you stop judging teams that at some point didn't integrate?

Probably right after they change the only truly objectionable team name in American professional sports, a name chosen by an unquestionable racist who specifically marketed his team to other equally unquestionable racists.

And I say that as someone who strongly disagreed with the change from Washington Bullets to the Wizards.

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3 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

You are willing to butt heads with @Gastineau Lives  but want me to put  you on ignore, I'm genuinely confused by that stance.

We like him.

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14 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You can't judge people from a few years ago by today's standards or Joe Biden would be labeled a racist.

With that said, times change and what is considered right/wrong changes. The time for Snyder to change the name has come and I'm pretty confident it will happen sooner rather than later.

The late Senator Byrd was a former KKK big shot I wonder if they will tear down anything with his name on it??

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1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

True but I'd bet the vast majority of those owners were racists.

I mean the Giants still haven't had a black head coach or a black starting QB unless you count that one time Geno Smith started and got benched by ownership the next week.

Of course they were racist, but that was an accepted practice back when these sports leagues started. I judge people by the standards of their era otherwise you are not being fair. For example, The Yankees won't use the Kate Smith version of "God Bless America" because back in 1931 she sang a song "Thats Why the Darkies Were Born." Yet the Yankees for decades refused to sign minority players.  The Yankees excuse themselves for the accepted practice of racism of that era but won't tolerate it from Kate Smith.  Ridiculous!

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33 minutes ago, Arsis said:

The Irish dude big mad over a downvote on a website. You realize they're not important, right?

 Talk about a snowflake.

I don't get mad,  like I said you're downvote is an upvote in my book feel free to downvote this one as well.

212687188_images(3).jpeg.8e62972846b8f4031f183115c369c4d3.jpeg

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