Jump to content
jetstream23

Darnold hit piece on ESPN front page, "Is his talent salvageable?"

Recommended Posts

On 7/3/2020 at 6:23 PM, Warfish said:

 

Like you said, he needs to get better.  Obviously.  Especially if he wants 20M/year.

The Jets are not going to pay Darnold his 20 

they are not going to pay Jamal his 17.5 

the real owner is out of the country

people call me a troll this is the reality of the team.

They live under the cap floor, hire mental patients at HC and people wonder why they are bad. 

***

as for Darnold all BS aside his fundementals aren't good 

his arm strength is good but not elite 

he's not especially tall or fast or durable 

What exactly are the strengths of his game? Running around like Brett Favre in the 90's and throwing dimes off his back foot 7 seconds into pass protection?  

What are his skills making multiple reads? 

Belly lives in his head

he's not really a fit for the culture or weather of the AFC east 

I'm not sure it's a model for a QB success in the NFL in 2020 

all bashing aside 

it would be nice if he played 16 games and kept his feet on the ground when he threw

that should be the base level for a QB picked 3 overall 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets are not going to pay Darnold his 20 

they are not going to pay Jamal his 17.5 

the real owner is out of the country

people call me a troll this is the reality of the team.

They live under the cap floor, hire mental patients at HC and people wonder why they are bad. 

***

as for Darnold all BS aside his fundementals aren't good 

his arm strength is good but not elite 

he's not especially tall or fast or durable 

What exactly are the strengths of his game? Running around like Brett Favre in the 90's and throwing dimes off his back foot 7 seconds into pass protection?  

What are his skills making multiple reads? 

Belly lives in his head

he's not really a fit for the culture or weather of the AFC east 

I'm not sure it's a model for a QB success in the NFL in 2020 

all bashing aside 

it would be nice if he played 16 games and kept his feet on the ground when he threw

that should be the base level for a QB picked 3 overall 

Not much to disagree with here. It is definitely put up or shut up time for Darnold in the stat department. 

I think Darnold's age buys him a lot of rope and cushion. The question is for how long. As happy as I was to end up drafting him over the other options that year, drafting a USC Trojan Horse QB is never ideal. 

People definitely have placed too much emotional stock into Darnold being the truth. I like the kid, I hope that he is as great as some here think, but as a Jets fan I won't be surprised if he is just another sacrificial lamb in the dark ritual that is NYJ Football.

 

  • Upvote 3
  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets are not going to pay Darnold his 20 

they are not going to pay Jamal his 17.5 

the real owner is out of the country

people call me a troll this is the reality of the team.

They live under the cap floor, hire mental patients at HC and people wonder why they are bad. 

***

as for Darnold all BS aside his fundementals aren't good 

his arm strength is good but not elite 

he's not especially tall or fast or durable 

What exactly are the strengths of his game? Running around like Brett Favre in the 90's and throwing dimes off his back foot 7 seconds into pass protection?  

What are his skills making multiple reads? 

Belly lives in his head

he's not really a fit for the culture or weather of the AFC east 

I'm not sure it's a model for a QB success in the NFL in 2020 

all bashing aside 

it would be nice if he played 16 games and kept his feet on the ground when he threw

that should be the base level for a QB picked 3 overall 

Sam will be one of the highest paid players on the league in 3 years

 

Book

 

it

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets are not going to pay Darnold his 20 

they are not going to pay Jamal his 17.5 

the real owner is out of the country

people call me a troll this is the reality of the team.

They live under the cap floor, hire mental patients at HC and people wonder why they are bad. 

***

as for Darnold all BS aside his fundementals aren't good 

his arm strength is good but not elite 

he's not especially tall or fast or durable 

What exactly are the strengths of his game? Running around like Brett Favre in the 90's and throwing dimes off his back foot 7 seconds into pass protection?  

What are his skills making multiple reads? 

Belly lives in his head

he's not really a fit for the culture or weather of the AFC east 

I'm not sure it's a model for a QB success in the NFL in 2020 

all bashing aside 

it would be nice if he played 16 games and kept his feet on the ground when he threw

that should be the base level for a QB picked 3 overall 

Absolutely...  Woody is a terrible owner and has filled our front office with less than stellar picks at HC and GM going on 10 years now.    the results of which have been years of bad 1st and 2nd round picks, bad signings and now that we have a QB, we have nothing for him to work with.

His talent shortfall is evident but so is his talent.  I simply don’t think the JETS under Woody will succeed. I’m trying to think of any other owner that would give his brother a pro team while he strokes himself as an ambassador.  It’s simply mind boggling.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2020 at 12:44 PM, Losmeister said:

what a hit piece!!! u guys really are ******* pussies...       oversensitive carriers of the y chromosome

valuating Darnold after two seasons requires an elaborate system of caveats and justifications. Everyone is going to weigh those differently. How do you account for him suffering from mononucleosis? What have the Jets done to surround him with talent? Do you treat the second half of 2019 -- when he threw 13 touchdown passes against four picks and posted a passer rating of 93.5 -- as his true talent level and a launching point for 2020? Or do you look at that schedule, see six consecutive starts against teams that finished in the bottom quartile of pass defense DVOA this past season, and worry about what Darnold is going to do when five of his first nine starts in 2020 come against top-six pass defenses?

No it doesnt

It takes someone to realize (and actually admit) that hes young, raw and has never played without being at the top of the league in pressures, hits, whatever.  He has no time to set himself and throw.  Or to get in rhythem.  Never mind hes had garbage at WR.  

Anyone who watches and understands the game knows this.  Its not an elaborate system of caveats.  

0C56F65E-1C44-4890-9DA0-7646D3A77745.thumb.png.c0f14059874a4bfdecf176666dc36aa4.png

 

Pretty easy

He matches or bests Watson under far more pressure in most categories.  And didnt have Watsons WRs

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you ignore the headline (which is done by an editor and intended to generate clicks) it's not an unfair article.

In summary -- Darnold has shown flashes of brilliance and at times looks great but has been maddeningly inconsistent and has some troubling tendencies. At the moment it's very questionable if the Jets have done enough in terms of coaching and the pieces around him to help him break out and succeed.

The article isn't really even anti-Darnold. It's way more anti-Jets for screwing him up. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets are not going to pay Darnold his 20 

they are not going to pay Jamal his 17.5 

the real owner is out of the country

people call me a troll this is the reality of the team.

They live under the cap floor, hire mental patients at HC and people wonder why they are bad. 

***

as for Darnold all BS aside his fundementals aren't good 

his arm strength is good but not elite 

he's not especially tall or fast or durable 

What exactly are the strengths of his game? Running around like Brett Favre in the 90's and throwing dimes off his back foot 7 seconds into pass protection?  

What are his skills making multiple reads? 

Belly lives in his head

he's not really a fit for the culture or weather of the AFC east 

I'm not sure it's a model for a QB success in the NFL in 2020 

all bashing aside 

it would be nice if he played 16 games and kept his feet on the ground when he threw

that should be the base level for a QB picked 3 overall 

How can one person make so many wrong statements in one post?

This could be a record, lol

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give Sam time in the pocket and we will see a damn good QB.

(A running game would be nice too)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sam will be one of the highest paid players on the league in 3 years

 

Book

 

it

 

Given how much starting NFL QB's are paid compared to other positions, I would certainly hope he's one of the highest paid.  Saying this isn't exactly aiming high, simply being a starting NFL QB generally makes one in the upper echelon of NFL Salaries.  Way to go out on a limb. :-k

Here is what I care about, will he be one of the highest PRODUCING QB's in the league in 3 years.  I hope he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's incredibly hard to evaluate Darnold under certain conditions.

He's had just about the weirdest start to a career I've ever seen. We dont even know how to evaluate a mono player.

A majority of people against him harp on his statistical percentages compared to his peers, but I find that to be flawed.

If he put up his same numbers 9 years ago we'd all be happy. Especially given his circumstances. I think solely relying on peer based rankings in a time of offensive revolution (a train that we havent exactly hopped on) is flawed. He's definitely faced more adversity than just about anyone as well. 

I know this is due to greater expectations from a passer dominated NFL inflating numbers, but this viewpoint relies on believing that the Adam Gase offense is a cutting edge spread offense like many of the top ones are. Our offense is most definitely closer to 2011 than it is to 2020.

If you look at his statistical averages from his first 2 seasons they're very close to guys like P. Manning, Luck, Tannehill. I think we should stop evaluating him based on what other people do because people and situations differ. Let's just wait and see because he has so many weird factors going into his play.

  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, JiF said:

lmfao the Darnold haters are a bizarre bunch.  
Darnold just went 7-6, completed 61% of his passes, had 21 total TD's and 13 INT's (7 coming in 2 games) and threw for 3,000 yards.   All while playing with arguably the worst OL and WR core in the NFL.  Nowhere on earth is that defined as "terrible".

He's a pubic hair below 60% on his career and has more TD's (36) than he does INT (28) - again, not terrible.  Great?  No.  Good.  Arguably when you consider the situation.  Terrible? Absolutely not.   We've seen what terrible looks like.

 

 

 

I know it's unfair, but at this point in time, the only people who think Darnold is a good QB are...jets fans.

The rest of the league doesn't follow our games, nor do they care about our results...so for them, Darnold is just another scrub. It's the worst kind of analysis - box score analysis - but this is what it is.

And it's what we gotta deal with/get used to hearing until the results improve.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Here is what I care about, will he be one of the highest PRODUCING QB's in the league in 3 years.  I hope he is.

this

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

I know it's unfair, but at this point in time, the only people who think Darnold is a good QB are...jets fans.

The rest of the league doesn't follow our games, nor do they care about our results...so for them, Darnold is just another scrub. It's the worst kind of analysis - box score analysis - but this is what it is.

And it's what we gotta deal with/get used to hearing until the results improve.

I dont think this is true at all.  I've read plenty of articles claiming Sam to be special by analysts, explayers, bloggers and fans.  There are dudes on TV predicting breakout season and preferring him to other similar prospects.  Dan Orvlosky says he'd take him over anyone that come out the last 3 years.  

I live in Jax, FL when people find out I'm a Jets fan, the typical response is, something like, "well that sucks but I think Darnold is legit."  Honestly, I've never heard anyone knock him that isnt a Jets fan.  My experience is that the only people who really doubt him are Jets fans.  That said, I dont think there is anyone who thinks Sam has arrived.  He has to get better.  But to say he's been terrible is just a horrible misrepresentation of the truth. 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JiF said:

lmfao the Darnold haters are a bizarre bunch.  
Darnold just went 7-6, completed 61% of his passes, had 21 total TD's and 13 INT's (7 coming in 2 games) and threw for 3,000 yards.   All while playing with arguably the worst OL and WR core in the NFL.  Nowhere on earth is that defined as "terrible".

He's a pubic hair below 60% on his career and has more TD's (36) than he does INT (28) - again, not terrible.  Great?  No.  Good.  Arguably when you consider the situation.  Terrible? Absolutely not.   We've seen what terrible looks like.

 

 

 

he's 3-9 vs playoff teams

he's never made it through a season healthy 

statistics can prove he's not "Terrible" 

but he gets those stats when the season/games are over 

it would be nice if he could produce before the team gets to 1-6 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grandy said:

It's incredibly hard to evaluate Darnold under certain conditions.

He's had just about the weirdest start to a career I've ever seen. We dont even know how to evaluate a mono player.

there was a QB who got Mono, and admitted it in public 

Chris Chandler. He made the Pro Bowl 10 years after he was drafted out of Washington (pac 10)

Darnold/Chandler is a decent comp, physically they are both around 6'4" 220  

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/09/12/how-chris-chandlers-bout-with-mono-gave-steve-mcnair-his-first-starting-opportunity/ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he's 3-9 vs playoff teams

he's never made it through a season healthy 

statistics can prove he's not "Terrible" 

but he gets those stats when the season/games are over 

it would be nice if he could produce before the team gets to 1-6 

I'd like to see Darnold start an entire season on a team that is capable of competing with other NFL Football teams as well. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'd like to see Darnold start an entire season on a team that is capable of competing with other NFL Football teams as well. 

on some level you're right the rest of the team stinks

on another level, he's supposed to the franchise 

he's supposed to make these bums better

that's what FQB does

that's why they traded all those picks in the first place. 

if everything needed to be perfect for Sam Darnold they should have picked Quenton Nelson and built him the foundation he needed

3 overall guy should be able to do some heavy lifting on his own 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No it doesnt

It takes someone to realize (and actually admit) that hes young, raw and has never played without being at the top of the league in pressures, hits, whatever.  He has no time to set himself and throw.  Or to get in rhythem.  Never mind hes had garbage at WR.  

Anyone who watches and understands the game knows this.  Its not an elaborate system of caveats.  

0C56F65E-1C44-4890-9DA0-7646D3A77745.thumb.png.c0f14059874a4bfdecf176666dc36aa4.png

 

Pretty easy

He matches or bests Watson under far more pressure in most categories.  And didnt have Watsons WRs

Those numbers are from weeks 10-17, nut, the weakest part of the schedule.

We ( both sides) have to stop cherry picking stretches that fit a narrative. I don’t know why it’s such a thing with fans when discussing Darnold.

This is no different then after his rookie year when his last 4 games were always brought up to show he was ready to break out in his second season. Then people harped on the Ghost game against New England. Now here, its 7 games to end the ‘19 season.

Put up his stats for passing under pressure for the entire year. I have no idea what they are, but let’s see if still they make your point. If they do, that’s encouraging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bitonti said:

on some level you're right the rest of the team stinks

on another level, he's supposed to the franchise 

he's supposed to make these bums better

that's what FQB does

that's why they traded all those picks in the first place. 

if everything needed to be perfect for Sam Darnold they should have picked Quenton Nelson and built him the foundation he needed

3 overall guy should be able to do some heavy lifting on his own 

I agree he needs to be better but this is where you lose me.  He improved significantly year over year and the team was clearly significantly much better when he was healthy.  Even the biggest Darnold hater can admit that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, bitonti said:

on some level you're right the rest of the team stinks

on another level, he's supposed to the franchise 

he's supposed to make these bums better

that's what FQB does

He does.

Since drafting Darnold, the Jets are 0-6 when he is out of the lineup.  They are 11-15 when he starts.

That's as black and white as it gets in terms of "making the players around him better."  The Jets are a somewhat competitive team when he plays.  They are possibly the worst team in the league when he does not play.

  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

He does.

Since drafting Darnold, the Jets are 0-6 when he is out of the lineup.  They are 11-15 when he starts.

That's as black and white as it gets in terms of "making the players around him better."  The Jets are a somewhat competitive team when he plays.  They are possibly the worst team in the league when he does not play.

I love this argument.

 you’re saying he’s better than a 40 year old career backup and a practice squad guy who never got reps with the first string, even when he was starting.

“Somewhat competitive”...Thats encouraging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  

13 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

I love this argument.

 you’re saying he’s better than a 40 year old career backup and a practice squad guy who never got reps with the first string, even when he was starting.

“Somewhat competitive”...Thats encouraging.

Yes, I'm saying he's better than McCown and Falk.  I'm also saying he makes the Jets a somewhat competitive team as opposed to the complete laughing stock they are when he doesn't play.

It's a perfectly legitimate argument.  And it's something that does provide hope that he can be something special when an NFL caliber roster is put around him.  Admittedly, it is a projection and hope at this stage.

The claim was that FQBs make the bums around them better.  I'm saying that is exactly what he has proven to do thus far.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Those numbers are from weeks 10-17, nut, the weakest part of the schedule.

We ( both sides) have to stop cherry picking stretches that fit a narrative. I don’t know why it’s such a thing with fans when discussing Darnold.

This is no different then after his rookie year when his last 4 games were always brought up to show he was ready to break out in his second season. Then people harped on the Ghost game against New England. Now here, its 7 games to end the ‘19 season.

Put up his stats for passing under pressure for the entire year. I have no idea what they are, but let’s see if still they make your point. If they do, that’s encouraging.

Yeah and in the weakest part of the schedule hes still getting pressured

No ones Cherry picking, the weeks before he was still under the effects of mono too, does that change anything? 

I'll take 7 weeks of play outgunning Watson anytime, no matter the reason.  Watson has a ton more talent around him and a better team too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, predator_05 said:

I know it's unfair, but at this point in time, the only people who think Darnold is a good QB are...jets fans.

The rest of the league doesn't follow our games, nor do they care about our results...so for them, Darnold is just another scrub. It's the worst kind of analysis - box score analysis - but this is what it is.

And it's what we gotta deal with/get used to hearing until the results improve.

Sad but true and the only people who think the Jets are not a bottom 4 franchise are Jets fans. We are on parallel with the Browns and Cardinals in the eyes of the nation. Sad....

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Sad but true and the only people who think the Jets are not a bottom 4 franchise are Jets fans. We are on parallel with the Browns and Cardinals in the eyes of the nation. Sad....

The 2010s were absolutely horrible. Just 2 winning seasons and a single post-season appearance, that too in 2010.

A total collapse from where the club was during the 2000s - 7 winning seasons and 5 post-season appearances.

But like in business, or politics, or life in general - much of this is cyclical. We can look forward to better times; - with the Patriots dynasty having ended, the dolphins in a similar period of transition and the Bills being respectable but nonthreatening for the foreseeable future.

It won't take much effort to achieve respectability, but i worry that our owners' ambitions are capped at respectability.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JiF said:

I'd like to see Darnold start an entire season on a team that is capable of competing with other NFL Football teams as well. 

The Jets Defense finished top 10 last year without their best player all season long and with no support of any kind from the 32nd ranked Offense.

But yeah, the whole team "can't compete".  :-k

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DoubleDown said:

He does.

Since drafting Darnold, the Jets are 0-6 when he is out of the lineup.  They are 11-15 when he starts.

That's as black and white as it gets in terms of "making the players around him better."  The Jets are a somewhat competitive team when he plays.  They are possibly the worst team in the league when he does not play.

we decided that anything resembling competition at the QB position was bad...   thus our backups stunk to hi holy hell....

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

we decided that anything resembling competition at the QB position was bad...   thus our backups stunk to hi holy hell....

 

truth

i have hope for Morgan tho 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

we decided that anything resembling competition at the QB position was bad...   thus our backups stunk to hi holy hell....

 

Falk is absolutely dreadful.  McCown is about on par with what you see for backup quarterbacks throughout the league.  Siemian is below average, but not unreasonable as a young player with starting experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JiF said:

lmfao the Darnold haters are a bizarre bunch.  
Darnold just went 7-6, completed 61% of his passes, had 21 total TD's and 13 INT's (7 coming in 2 games) and threw for 3,000 yards.   All while playing with arguably the worst OL and WR core in the NFL.  Nowhere on earth is that defined as "terrible".

He's a pubic hair below 60% on his career and has more TD's (36) than he does INT (28) - again, not terrible.  Great?  No.  Good.  Arguably when you consider the situation.  Terrible? Absolutely not.   We've seen what terrible looks like.

 

 

 

If all you did was listen to the ignorant loudmouths on ESPN you would think Sam was worse than Ryan Leaf last season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Sad but true and the only people who think the Jets are not a bottom 4 franchise are Jets fans. We are on parallel with the Browns and Cardinals in the eyes of the nation. Sad....

Jets have never had good ownership 


we went from Leon Hess to Woody 

 

As bad as Jim Dolan is his father is a smart guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JiF said:

I dont think this is true at all.  I've read plenty of articles claiming Sam to be special by analysts, explayers, bloggers and fans.  There are dudes on TV predicting breakout season and preferring him to other similar prospects.  Dan Orvlosky says he'd take him over anyone that come out the last 3 years.  

I live in Jax, FL when people find out I'm a Jets fan, the typical response is, something like, "well that sucks but I think Darnold is legit."  Honestly, I've never heard anyone knock him that isnt a Jets fan.  My experience is that the only people who really doubt him are Jets fans.  That said, I dont think there is anyone who thinks Sam has arrived.  He has to get better.  But to say he's been terrible is just a horrible misrepresentation of the truth. 

 

 

 

IF Sam can stay healthy this year and it’s a big IF I expect a breakout season 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a truly dumb article. It's obvious that the writer was desperate to find material to write about. He's a hack in the mold of Manish Mehta.

With that said, there's no doubt Sammys development had been absurdly retarded due to Mac's f*cking incompetence. His numbers should be MUCH better and would be if Mac had known the first f*cking thing about building a football team. If Sammy had Rex Ryan as his HC and had come into the league in 2009 the Jets would be multiple SB winners by now. I'm hoping that Sammy hasn't been ruined by all the garbage talent he's been forced to play with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




Content Partnership

Yes Network

Site Sponsor

MILE-Social - NJ Social Media & SEO company
×
×
  • Create New...